Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: AJ Dual on April 17, 2011, 01:07:43 PM
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The "Box O' Truth" was criticized (rightly so) for using cut down .410 shotshells in their first test. So he went back and tried it with a 3" barrel model to get any velocity gain he could, and with a selection of pistol-optimized .410, or premium defense loadings.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=1174519
Looks as though with premium self-defense ammo one or two of the loads might meet the FBI minimum penetration spec, however, patterns at even 7 yards for all of them were still abysmal. =|
Unless you're a sport fisherman who needs a put-down weapon for point blank shots before bringing dangerous fish into the boat, or you have a real need to eliminate snakes right between your feet... The Judge just does not deliver much "justice".
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No *expletive deleted*...
If you brought a judge to use as a defensive weapon against humans...well, you are a *expletive deleted*ing idiot.
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No *expletive deleted*...
If you brought a judge to use as a defensive weapon against humans...well, you are a *expletive deleted* idiot.
Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel...
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Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel...
The Judge...it's the dipshit sidearm of choice. SHOTGUN YOU CAN HOLD IN YOUR HAND!!!!111!!!!!. Suddenly, a caliber that struggles against thin skinned small game when chambered in a full length shotgun is a death dealing ray of destruction when chambered in a shitty revolver made by a shitty company...BUT IT BLOWS UP WATERMELONS!!!!111!!!!. Yeah, because I'm fearing a revolt out of the produce section at Wal-Mart more than I fear a mugger in an alley.
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Hahahaha, glad people share my opinion of the judge (negative)...why would I want a firearm that is heavier, holds half as many rounds, has worse single-shot stopping power, and is the same sizeas my usp45...on the other hand (sarcasm) it's good for snakes! (well, so is a 12ga...or a rock)
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Hahahaha, glad people share my opinion of the judge (negative)...why would I want a firearm that is heavier, holds half as many rounds, has worse single-shot stopping power, and is the same sizeas my usp45...on the other hand (sarcasm) it's good for snakes! (well, so is a 12ga...or a rock)
Or as we've always used, a garden hoe...
I encounter about 4 or 5 snakes per year. Most of them are non-venomous (so why would I want to shoot a harmless creature?). For the one rattlesnake per year I encounter...well, a standard pistol works just fine.
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I was severely chastised for questioning the usefulness of these oh so popular shot revolvers. How come the Thunder Five didn't catch on but these did?
Now if any company comes out with a 28 gauge... :facepalm:
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Speaking as a disinterested third party who has never so much as held a taurus product in my hand much less a judge, my apologies for getting in the middle of you assigning value on people based on the firearms they buy (calling them dipshits and idiots). Carry on then. I must have clicked on my favorite for ar15.com instead of APS.
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I was severely chastised for questioning the usefulness of these oh so popular shot revolvers. How come the Thunder Five didn't catch on but these did?
Now if any company comes out with a 28 gauge... :facepalm:
All about marketing. Guess the makers of the Thunder Five didn't buy enough ads and articles in gun rags...
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Glad he redid the test with proper ammo....I learned a few things from this....
1. Using proper ammo (instead of bubba-ed loads) makes a difference.
2. A .410 full-sized shotgun makes for a great short-range HD weapon.
3. While I'm not interested in buying a Judge, I wouldn't hesitate getting a Bond Arms .410 derringer and have it for close-range work.
4. Shooting stuff really IS fun..... =D
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Speaking as a disinterested third party who has never so much as held a taurus product in my hand much less a judge, my apologies for getting in the middle of you assigning value on people based on the firearms they buy (calling them dipshits and idiots). Carry on then. I must have clicked on my favorite for ar15.com instead of APS.
Hmm. While I don't think the purchase of any weapon (regardless of tested capability or perceived utility) is sufficient evidence to make a conclusion as to the acuity of the user, I regard certain weapons as either (pardon the metaphor) "all season tires" or "race-ready tires". In the former, a weapon is advertised as the "all {or many} purpose" weapon that excels at everything, thereby reducing the need to purchase different weapons. In the latter, a weapon is advertised as being so unbelievably effective that many perceive its additional cost over a substitute to compensate for additional training.
Both types are exemplified with this specific weapon--advertised as wing great for HD and snakes/varmints and it's ability to use shotgun rounds for HD great for HD to make up for lack of precision in emergencies yet more easily pointed than a conventional shotgun.
It's those conclusions (drawn from advertisement) that are the issue.
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And so far nobody has talked about the fact that there are some really good .45 LC rounds out there that the Judge can shoot.
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And so far nobody has talked about the fact that there are some really good .45 LC rounds out there that the Judge can shoot.
Rounds that can be fired by every other .45 Colt revolver out there; some in much better packages at the same or similar price points.
I have no beef with Taurus but the "hook" of the Judge IS the .410 capability. If it can't utilize that with any significant benefit then it is indeed a gimmick gun.
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And so far nobody has talked about the fact that there are some really good .45 LC rounds out there that the Judge can shoot.
That's what I was thinking, except a Judge is about the ugliest way to launch a .45 bullet :(
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I can see a .410 revolver has some use in snake country.
But considering that I - and many others - don't consider a 12 ga with birdshot as a good self defense weapon, a .410 is off the bottom end of the scale. (Not that I want to stand in front of one, mind you . . . ;) ) Better than nothing, adequate with some loads, but there are better choices in better packages.
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Function, utility and beauty are all in the eye of the beholder. I won't begrudge a company making something, marketing it and selling a bunch of them on the market. I'll stick with my SS 605 though. ;)
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And so far nobody has talked about the fact that there are some really good .45 LC rounds out there that the Judge can shoot.
That's what I was thinking, except a Judge is about the ugliest way to launch a .45 bullet :(
...and way too heavy for a .45Colt revolver....I wish Taurus would bring back the 455 snubby instead....
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That's what I was thinking, except a Judge is about the ugliest way to launch a .45 bullet
No argument there! But the gun sells well so they must be doing something right. Didn't S&W come out with their own version recently? I never put a whole lot of thought into the Judge because I am pretty sure it isn't legal here in CA.
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I am the proud owner of an 8 shot 357 magnum revolver. Looking at that picture on the link, I think that 3" chambered Judge may be the same size or bigger than my 627. It is certainly bigger than my 625. I bet it doesn't even use moon clips either.
I have no beef with 45 long colt, but I was never impressed with 410 shot shells of any type as a defense gun. If I saw a poisonous snake and there was pistol sitting next to a shovel, I am grabbing the shovel.
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No argument there! But the gun sells well so they must be doing something right. Didn't S&W come out with their own version recently? I never put a whole lot of thought into the Judge because I am pretty sure it isn't legal here in CA.
First- Note that my rage is directed at those who buy and recommend a Taurus Judge or similar for SD/HD. I don't care if you brought it to shoot snakes or whatever. If you carry it for SD and/or recommend it to others for the same...well, you are a dumbass.
The only thing they are doing right is marketing (and they are doing a hell of a job at it)...S&W jumped on the bandwagon to make the money from idjits with a more...discriminating taste in junk. Yes, I did a facepalm when learning that S&W decided to bring out the "Governor"1. Actually, I did multiple facepalms.
And, yes, I call people who not only choose a Judge for SD, but RECOMMEND IT TO OTHERS FOR SD based on their "vast" experience shooting dirt clods and watermelons at the range with it *expletive deleted*ing idiots because they are. Giving idiotic advice that may very well get someone killed in an SD scenario is criminally stoopid, IMHO. This very much so includes Taurus (and now S&W) for marketing it as a defensive weapon in the first place, and the gunrags such as the NRA mags for praising it. :facepalm:
Buy a real defensive grade gun if you want a SD gun. Feel free to buy a Judge for shooting dirt clods and watermelons, I don't care. Just don't recommend it as an SD weapon unless you like being known as a mouthbreathing jackwagon.
Honestly, if you've ever listened to the idiots at the guncounter clamoring for the Judge...you'd understand why it and it's acolytes are so hated... [barf]
1Actually, my exact words were "What the F***ing HELL S&W?! Do you hire designers who ride the short bus to work? Thought you were making a turnaround with stuff like the M&P pistols and rifles and ditching locks on some models...but now you're snatching defeat from the jaws of victory."
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unless you like being known as a mouthbreathing jackwagon.
You learn to live with it.
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I am still stunned after reading the arfcom thread. Someone suggested the Judge for BEAR defense? Anyone still suggesting some .410 shot load for SD out of The Judge deserves to have calumny heaped on their head.
After having used CCI rat shot out of my .357mag and .45ACP, I figured that they were good enough with their #12 shot, as any larger shot that might be more effective at range is not going to pattern for squat. My AMT DAO Backup in .45ACP will cycle the CCI .45ACP shot shell, if I want 6 rounds of such at hand. And it packs better than The (Revolver with Elephantiasis) Judge.
Truly, the ability to use .410 shells out of a pistol is useful only for putting grins on your face and is roughly as effective as CCI shot shells on rats, snakes, etc. at bad breath range.
Yeah, it can shoot .45LC, but its reason for being is the .410 shot shell.
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Didn't the Thunder Five shoot .45/70 as well?
I'd buy THAT for a dollar! =D
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reducing the need to purchase different weapons.
Wait, what? A reason to buy FEWER guns? KILL IT WITH FIRE! [ar15]
=D
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The blessing and curse that is the Judge, and probably the Governor as well, is that it is a gun that by looks is extremely appealing to the uninfomed shooter. take the average person, and ask them which is more powerful...a .410 or a .357, and that person will pick the .410. Why? Bigger number. Set up the shells side by side, and you'll get even more support for the .410, because the shell is bigger. Tell this person that you can shoot a shotgun shell out of the Judge/Governor, and that person will fall all over himself to buy one, because "it's a shotgun!" years of watching TJ Hooker in re-runs has convinced that person that a shotgun will blow a badguy backwards through a window, so the Judge/Governor will do that as well.
I can't blame Taurus or Smith for riding this cash cow for all it's worth, but it's amazing to see some people I would call informed shooters starting to lean that way./ Heck, there's a bailiff here at the courthouse who is looking for a security holster for a Judge, becuase he thinks that it would be a good duty weapon for him.
PT Barnum wasn't wrong, you know...
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My one silver-lining hope is that it's creating new gun owners who may not have otherwise been inspired to get into it.
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My one silver-lining hope is that it's creating new gun owners who may not have otherwise been inspired to get into it.
The lady next door has one. She is deathly afraid of snakes.
I'm just glad to see a woman carrying a gun. =)
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Gun rags will never really bad mouth a firearm, especially from a big money advertiser like Taurus or S&W. I don't blame S&W for jumping on the band wagon. S&W produces enough variety that the Governor won't hurt them and may also help them. People will buy what appeals to them and calling someone an *expletive deleted* just because they like something isn't helping the cause.
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Don't people buy guns to shoot just for fun anymore? The Judge might not be useful for SD, but it is fun to shoot.
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Meh, I'm waiting until I go nuts and build the 3.5" 12ga model. Dunno whether to call it The Supreme Court Justice or The Dictator.
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He didn't try the most effective ammunition, the 4 pellet 000 buck load. I really need to post the photos and whatnot from my gelatin test.
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Meh, I'm waiting until I go nuts and build the 3.5" 12ga model. Dunno whether to call it The Supreme Court Justice or The Dictator.
That will be the Taurus Orthopod.
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^^^ I simply must remember this for the next time I speak at a medical meeting.
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Don't people buy guns to shoot just for fun anymore? The Judge might not be useful for SD, but it is fun to shoot.
Considering what the cheapest "fun" .410 loads are birdshot, and how poorly it patterns even at 7 yards... I kind of think you have to hit "something" to have "fun". But that's just me...
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Does the law or the waffen BATFEces regs actually specify that "rifling" has to twist? If not, why not manufacture it with straight grooves and lands to satisfy BATFEces regs and eliminate the problem of the shot pattern spreading due to centrifigal force? It would suck for the handgun cartridges, but you fix that by shooting slugs.
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He didn't try the most effective ammunition, the 4 pellet 000 buck load. I really need to post the photos and whatnot from my gelatin test.
Please do...I'm interested in the results....
Does the law or the waffen BATFEces regs actually specify that "rifling" has to twist? If not, why not manufacture it with straight grooves and lands to satisfy BATFEces regs and eliminate the problem of the shot pattern spreading due to centrifigal force? It would suck for the handgun cartridges, but you fix that by shooting slugs.
Even better....go with Paradox rifiling....stabilizes slugs and keeps shot from spreading too wide....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_gun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_gun)
http://www.hallowellco.com/paradox_boring.htm (http://www.hallowellco.com/paradox_boring.htm)
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That will be the Taurus Orthopod.
Which will be cool until the 30mm Taurus Unicron comes out
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Whatever happened to that 28 gauge revolver?
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Whatever happened to that 28 gauge revolver?
Since it had a rifled bore to try and get around the SBS and AOW categories like the Judge does, but also had a bore of greater than .50, it was an instant Destructive Device classification. The demonstrated prototype did not even make it on display through the entire length of the SHOT show.
Speculation was that Taurus knew it wouldn't make it past the BATF, but just produced the "Raging Judge" as a publicity stunt, and as sour grapes to steal thunder from S&W copying the Judge with their Governor which they also presented at SHOT.
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Since it had a rifled bore to try and get around the SBS and AOW categories like the Judge does, but also had a bore of greater than .50, it was an instant Destructive Device classification. The demonstrated prototype did not even make it on display through the entire length of the SHOT show.
Speculation was that Taurus knew it wouldn't make it past the BATF, but just produced the "Raging Judge" as a publicity stunt, and as sour grapes to steal thunder from S&W copying the Judge with their Governor which they also presented at SHOT.
But I thought that was all rumor?
http://www.americanrifleman.org/blogs/quashing-raging-judge-rumors/
http://www.shootingillustrated.com/5521/truth-missing-from-raging-judge-28-gauge-rumors/
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Apparently, even the "big names" in magazines and online articles got it wrong. Read the GCA 68, NFA 34, and then look at the description of the Taurus 28 revolver - 28ga (.550" or so), rifled, no stock, under 16" barrel and 26" OAL. It's an NFA item, plain and simple. :)
Even Taurus has greyed out the page with the 28ga Judge in their online catalog...
http://www.taurususa.com/2011newcatalog/?catalog_page=6
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US0AsCuvfF8#t=28s
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Even Taurus has greyed out the page with the 28ga Judge in their online catalog...
http://www.taurususa.com/2011newcatalog/?catalog_page=6
They did the same to their page on 100th anniversary 1911s.
I can't figure how they'd get around the regs on >.5 caliber weapons, either. What are the guidelines on those massive African hunting cartridges - .700 NE and similar? Are the weapons that fire them all smoothbore?
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No; they're specifically (and individually) exempted from the NFA as only having a sporting purpose, having no utility as a weapon (not easily concealed, etc.).
The Judge in 28ga, quite simply, isn't going to get exempted. Ever.
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They did the same to their page on 100th anniversary 1911s.
I can't figure how they'd get around the regs on >.5 caliber weapons, either. What are the guidelines on those massive African hunting cartridges - .700 NE and similar? Are the weapons that fire them all smoothbore?
They're considered "sporting guns." IIRC, shotguns are actually under the same exception. Anything, smooth-bore or not, is considered a destructive device if it has a bore over .50" unless it's ruled to have a "sporting purpose."
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What about a caplock/flintlock pistol ???
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What about a caplock/flintlock pistol ???
Non-firearm due to being muzzle loader.
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Non-firearm due to being muzzle loader.
So a double barreled caplock sawed off twelve gauge would be just fine >:D
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So a double barreled caplock sawed off twelve gauge would be just fine >:D
Yup.
Cabela's actually sells one (http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Black-Powder/Pistols|/pc/104792580/c/104701680/sc/104503680/Davide-Pedersoli-Howdah-Pistol/740261.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fshooting-black-powder-pistols%2F_%2FN-1100201%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_104503680%3FWTz_l%3DSBC%253BMMcat104792580%253Bcat104701680). It's a replica of a Howdah pistol, which is basically a sawed-off double barrel 20 gauge shotgun, which you can have shipped straight to you since it's not technically a firearm.
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But I thought that was all rumor?
http://www.americanrifleman.org/blogs/quashing-raging-judge-rumors/
http://www.shootingillustrated.com/5521/truth-missing-from-raging-judge-28-gauge-rumors/
Yeah, but if you haven't been "informed through channels", rumors are still rumors, even when they're right.
I think if it was really "We're still working with the BATF to bring this to market." as they're trying to imply, they wouldn't have pulled it from SHOT. Vendors show off plenty of stuff there that's just "show off" pieces like the famous Magpul AFG/PFG from 2008 that will never see a market. Just like concept cars at auto shows.
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Don't people buy guns to shoot just for fun anymore? The Judge might not be useful for SD, but it is fun to shoot.
I've met very, very few that have brought the Judge simply as a range gun.
98% of Judge owners I have met, however, think their pistol is TEH AWESOME!!!1111!!! for SD and will breathlessly and repeatedly inform you of how superior their piece of *expletive deleted*it is to anything else on the market.
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I've met very, very few that have brought the Judge simply as a range gun.
98% of Judge owners I have met, however, think their pistol is TEH AWESOME!!!1111!!! for SD and will breathlessly and repeatedly inform you of how superior their piece of *expletive deleted* is to anything else on the market.
Oh YEAH? Well why don YOU go stand downrange in front of it?! Huh? Ya wanna try THAT, smart guy?
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Oh YEAH? Well why don YOU go stand downrange in front of it?! Huh? Ya wanna try THAT, smart guy?
OK, but I'm going to be shooting back with a Glock 19.
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"dipshits"? Really?
This one stays open, barely. APS is not arfcom.
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Oh YEAH? Well why don YOU go stand downrange in front of it?! Huh? Ya wanna try THAT, smart guy?
Hundred bucks, #8 shot?
I'd take that bet. =D
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IBTL
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Fisty is joking.
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Fisty is joking.
The joke is on all you jokers without a judge at your side. Especially now that I have the duckbill attachment to spread my shot. I can mow you all down with one shot.
'Course now the bayonet don't fit.
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Fisty is joking.
I know, but I also know what I'm going to say to the next Judge owner who goes "Well, would you stand downrange of it..."
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I thinks everyone should wait for Taurus to release "The Jury and Ankle Bracelet"
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi156.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft33%2FAJ_Dual%2Fduckfoot31.jpg&hash=1ada654924a4265bf4def019eb4a0139ebaa5bcd)
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I thinks everyone should wait for Taurus to release "The Jury and Ankle Bracelet"
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t33/AJ_Dual/duckfoot31.jpg (http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t33/AJ_Dual/duckfoot31.jpg)
That can't be a Taurus....that looks like it might actually work....
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The wanton bashing in this thread reminds me of HiPoint being bashed. Personally, I couldn't be happier with my under-$200 MSRP 9x19 rifle. :)
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The wanton bashing in this thread reminds me of HiPoint being bashed. Personally, I couldn't be happier with my under-$200 MSRP 9x19 rifle. :)
It's not bashing when it's fact The Judge, although heavily marketed and talked up as such, is a completely unsuitable SD/HD weapon...the HiPoints (both carbines and pistols) as crude as they are...are FAR better weapons than the Judge.
Oh, and while both the Taurus made guns and HiPoints have a good probability of having problems...guess which one you can actually get fixed in a timely manner?
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Hi Point gets bashed unfairly for their quality.
The Judge may be well made, but it's entire premise could conceivably get someone killed.
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The Judge may be well made, but it's entire premise could conceivably get someone killed.
http://denver.cbslocal.com/2011/02/03/make-my-day-shooter/
Not if you're a masseuse. :lol:
Though we don't know if he used buckshot, slugs, or .45 LC.
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That can't be a Taurus....that looks like it might actually work....
Says the guy who probably has never owned a Taurus! Have you? My 605 shoots just fine and anything they make based on the 85 is reliable. [ar15] to Taurii haters! =D
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Says the guy who probably has never owned a Taurus! Have you? My 605 shoots just fine and anything they make based on the 85 is reliable. [ar15] to Taurii haters! =D
I've got two Taurus products. Neither works very well.
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I've got two Taurus products. Neither works very well.
Revolvers? Their automatics are supposed to be pretty good, aside from their Beretta 21 copies (which don't always work that well for Beretta, either).
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Revolvers? Their automatics are supposed to be pretty good, aside from their Beretta 21 copies (which don't always work that well for Beretta, either).
One revolver (Model 94) and one carbine, the Thunderbolt in .45 Colt.
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My 605 shoots just fine and anything they make based on the 85 is reliable.
I knew I should have put in a disclaimer that I was only talking about the Model 85 models and the spinoffs from that. =D
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I thinks everyone should wait for Taurus to release "The Jury and Ankle Bracelet"
I am waiting for the new model called "The Court Reporter".
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I am waiting for the new model called "The Court Reporter".
I'm particularly fond of the. 25 cal Meter Maid and the. 22 cal Crossing Guard. The. 17 cal Hall Monitor is supposed to be pretty sweet.
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I'm particularly fond of the. 25 cal Meter Maid and the. 22 cal Crossing Guard. The. 17 cal Hall Monitor is supposed to be pretty sweet.
What about the 220swift Secretary of the interior...makes lots of noise, moves quickly, is basically obsolete and marginally effective.
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How about a blunderbuss called "The President" ?
:P
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How about a blunderbuss called "The President" ?
:P
Winner!
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Revolvers? Their automatics are supposed to be pretty good, aside from their Beretta 21 copies (which don't always work that well for Beretta, either).
My carry is a PT 27/7 Millennium 140. I've never had a jam and I keep a decent pattern in a target. I don't own a Judge. I need a revolver, but I want one that is carry friendly, the Judge isn't. I have no problem with bashing a gun for it's failures, but don't bash the owners. Everyone has had buyers regret, they will either learn or eat their BBQed sparrow.
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Says the guy who probably has never owned a Taurus! Have you?
1. PT 908 (the SIG-looking 9mm)....nice concept for the time, but shot patterns with 115gr ammo. Had to use 147gr ammo to get anything close to a group. Had to send it back once to replace the extractor spring.....back in the day when Taurus Customer Service was actually good.....
2. M94 .22lr....this is an older model I bought used. Needs the rear sight replaced, but a pretty good nine-gun.
The models that Taurus has been making for 10+ years (85, 605, PT92, 94, etc.) tend to be pretty bug-free. It's the newer stuff that seems to cause the most problems, based on numerous posts on numerous boards. I'm also disgusted that Taurus uses its customers for QC instead of doing it in the factory. I'd pretty much recommend...
1. Don't buy a Taurus model unless it's been in production more than five years.
2. Don't count on Taurus to make it right. If your local gunsmith can't fix it, sell it ASAP.
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My carry is a PT 27/7 Millennium 140. I've never had a jam and I keep a decent pattern in a target.
What would you estimate the total round count to be through the gun? Generally speaking when I see that somebody has NEVER had a problem with a gun that just means their round count is low.
If you shoot a semi-auto pistol long enough it will barf on you. Hell, I had a Glock exhibit two FTFs in a match once. Granted, it was dirty as a politician and drier than a popcorn fart, but it did barf. Any gun that I have owned long enough and really put through the wringer has let me down a few times.
Pistols that I hardly ever shoot, like my S&W 1911SC, that's never jammed on me either. But I know it will. I just haven't put more than 500 rounds through the thing over the years.
My Taurus stuff? No way in Hell am I getting through 200 rounds with either without a bobble. Same goes for my Walther P22. It will NEVER happen.
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Oh, a fun story that seems relevant.
About a year ago I'm in a client's office. The president of the company comes in to chat with me. Nice guy. Another worker hands him a FedEx box that just arrived. President looks at it, says, "What the heck is this thing from Miami?" and sets it on the desk. About 10 minutes go by and he realizes, "Oh, that's my pistol back from repair!"
Well before he got that box open I said, "So, ya got a Taurus, eh?"
Yep. PT-92, back from "repair" with a letter saying it works just fine.
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I am waiting for the "Lunch Lady".
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How about a blunderbuss called "The President" ?
:P
Hmm, I would have sworn that name was taken by Taurus's small-bore compressed air gun.
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They're having problems importing the President. It seems if its domestic or imported is in question, and nobody can find the Form 6.
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I am waiting for the "Lunch Lady".
Done...it even has the Ribber Grips....
http://www.noveltytoys.us/images/Potato%20Gun.jpg (http://www.noveltytoys.us/images/Potato%20Gun.jpg)
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Well before he got that box open I said, "So, ya got a Taurus, eh?"
Yep. PT-92, back from "repair" with a letter saying it works just fine.
But, but. The Taurus PT740 got 2011 NRA Handgun o' da year!
What distingrishes the PT740, however, is that should it fail to fire on the first try, the shooter needs only pu pull the trigger again for a second attempt -- a seldom--encountered needed (in guns that work) feature on a striker-fired pistol...
(Full disclosure -- my 605 works fine, upwards of a thousand rounds through it at this point.)
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My Taurus stuff? No way in Hell am I getting through 200 rounds with either without a bobble. Same goes for my Walther P22. It will NEVER happen.
My p22 is unstoppable, once I started feeding it only blazer, I started an experiment of how many rounds until I get a jam (without cleaning, at all)...I'm at 500 rounds, zero jams, FTF, or malfunctions (p22 with a gemtech can). What ammo are you using? If I use anything other than CCI blazer, the thing FTF's or jams every 20-30rnds. And that test included some serious abuse (10 magazines, as fast as I could pull the trigger) tests.
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But, but. The Taurus PT740 got 2011 NRA Handgun o' da year!
When was the last year Taurus didn't win a "Handgun of the Year" option. Honestly, if you are reading NRA mags (or hell, most any gun rag) for gun and accessory advice...you're barking up the wrong tree...
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What ammo are you using? If I use anything other than CCI blazer, the thing FTF's or jams every 20-30rnds.
Remington Golden Bullets mostly which I know is part of the problem, but I tend to think a .22LR plinker should be able to consume any ammo that's in spec.
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When was the last year Taurus didn't win a "Handgun of the Year" option. Honestly, if you are reading NRA mags (or hell, most any gun rag) for gun and accessory advice...you're barking up the wrong tree...
A gunforum FAQ -- what magazine to get? (Handloader. And that's about it.)
I still chuckle at remembering Am. Rifleman's first (there've been more than one) feature article on the Judge. The first two pages featured a huge blowup photo of the back of the cylinder. The nasty machining of the pawls (typical of Taurus revolvers) was so obvious that my wife (neither mechanically inclined, nor any way shape or form of gunny) remarked on it.
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Remington Golden Bullets mostly which I know is part of the problem, but I tend to think a .22LR plinker should be able to consume any ammo that's in spec.
I tried those, it hated them. After some googling I found out the p22 is quite particular, and the factory does their testing with the cci blazer. I switched, and never looked back, I recommend trying it, you will be amazed!
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When was the last year Taurus didn't win a "Handgun of the Year" option. Honestly, if you are reading NRA mags (or hell, most any gun rag) for gun and accessory advice...you're barking up the wrong tree...
>handgun magazine has a different opinion than I do.
>they're being paid off by the gun manufacturer.
How do I cognitive dissonance?
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A gunforum FAQ -- what magazine to get? (Handloader. And that's about it.)
I still chuckle at remembering Am. Rifleman's first (there've been more than one) feature article on the Judge. The first two pages featured a huge blowup photo of the back of the cylinder. The nasty machining of the pawls (typical of Taurus revolvers) was so obvious that my wife (neither mechanically inclined, nor any way shape or form of gunny) remarked on it.
Shockingly, the Judge I have is extraordinarily well finished. I figure I either got lucky or they finally wised up to proper surface finish.
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What would you estimate the total round count to be through the gun? Generally speaking when I see that somebody has NEVER had a problem with a gun that just means their round count is low.
If you shoot a semi-auto pistol long enough it will barf on you. Hell, I had a Glock exhibit two FTFs in a match once. Granted, it was dirty as a politician and drier than a popcorn fart, but it did barf. Any gun that I have owned long enough and really put through the wringer has let me down a few times.
Pistols that I hardly ever shoot, like my S&W 1911SC, that's never jammed on me either. But I know it will. I just haven't put more than 500 rounds through the thing over the years.
My Taurus stuff? No way in Hell am I getting through 200 rounds with either without a bobble. Same goes for my Walther P22. It will NEVER happen.
I got it second hand. I have put under a thousand, 500-700 maybe, with cheap Blazer ammo.