Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: geronimotwo on April 20, 2011, 01:29:14 PM
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http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/04/nutley_woman_is_stabbed_in_fac.html
on the subway a NJ woman asks a homeless man to not light his cigarette, and ends up being stabbed in the face with a pen. i don't have any sympathy for him, but the police charge him with felony assault, and CRIMINAL POSSESSION OF A WEAPON!
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Friend of a friend was charged with assault with a deadly weapon once, the weapon in question was a can of frozen OJ.
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it became a weapon when he used it as one
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i understand an assault charge, but criminal possession implies that it was illegal for him to carry a pen. my thoughts are that if it is illegal for him to carry the weapon before the assault (ie an unlicensed handgun in ny, or a knife with an illegal blade length), then criminal possession sticks. but how would it be criminal for him to be carrying a pen?
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I'd make a lousy juror in these cases . . . if the authorities pile on with asinine charges and insist on prosecuting them in court, I'd be inclined to disbelieve testimony about the legitimate offenses the accused may have committed.
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Up here it would be assault with a "dangerous instrument"
(a) A person commits the crime of assault in the first degree if
(1) that person recklessly causes serious physical injury to another by means of a dangerous instrument;
(15) "dangerous instrument" means
(A) any deadly weapon or anything that, under the circumstances in which it is used, attempted to be used, or threatened to be used, is capable of causing death or serious physical injury; or
(B) hands or other objects when used to impede normal breathing or circulation of blood by applying pressure on the throat or neck or obstructing the nose or mouth;
We don't have many possession charges, certainly none for things that "could" be used as a weapon (but are otherwise not weapons), most of our crimes require action with intent.
Maybe the prosecution thinks they can prove that he had the pen with the intent of using it as a weapon?
Like, he engraved it with the name "Mr. Stabby" and carried it in a case labeled "Open only in case of stabbing opportunity"?
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wanna see a pencil disappear?
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i understand an assault charge, but criminal possession implies that it was illegal for him to carry a pen. my thoughts are that if it is illegal for him to carry the weapon before the assault (ie an unlicensed handgun in ny, or a knife with an illegal blade length), then criminal possession sticks. but how would it be criminal for him to be carrying a pen?
There are things called "field expedient weapons." Usually this is more a military track of thought, but a lot of things which have innocent purposes when used as a manufacturer intended are not weapons in that capacity. Like the pen in question. A brick might also be used as a f.e.w. to clobber someone with. As to its legality, that depends upon context. You can't just clobber someone who asks you not to smoke. IT would also have been illegal for that guy to punch the woman with his fist .... but having a hand at the end of one's arm is not illegal. Neither is having a pen.
Some things, such as knives and guns, are more obviously purposefully constructed as weapons it would be difficult to consider them as something other than weapons ..... even by politicians who make laws and are usually quite adept at twisting semantics into a knot.
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A "now-it-can-be-told" longecdote.
Tommy Gunn pointed out:
There are things called "field expedient weapons." Usually this is more a military track of thought, but a lot of things which have innocent purposes when used as a manufacturer intended are not weapons in that capacity. Like the pen in question. A brick might also be used as a f.e.w. to clobber someone with. As to its legality, that depends upon context. You can't just clobber someone who asks you not to smoke. IT would also have been illegal for that guy to punch the woman with his fist .... but having a hand at the end of one's arm is not illegal. Neither is having a pen.
Some things, such as knives and guns, are more obviously purposefully constructed as weapons it would be difficult to consider them as something other than weapons ..... even by politicians who make laws and are usually quite adept at twisting semantics into a knot.
For a time I was interested in finding out about using ordinary items as self-defense weapons in an emergency, such as you describe as "field-expedient" weapons. Now in my case you gotta understand that I worked in a tightly-controlled "no weapons" environment --xrays, magnetometers, armed guards, and all like that there.
One of the frequently mentioned field expedient weapons --or more correctly, "office-expedient" --were pens (and pencils and letter openers, and high-heeled shoes, and key rings) and in my research, several suggestions were made as to the best pens to use as weapons --apparently some pens look like they were almost designed to be effective as weapons.
So anyhow, to make a long story longer, the outfit I worked for had regular general staff meetings where, among the other items on the agenda, was the distribution of little "presents" to all the staff. One time it was a high-quality umbrella, another time it was one of those picture boxes where you could install you own pix and have it "slide show" through your pictures while it was sitting on your desk... goodies like that.
One day they distributed high quality pens in fine, high-quality presentation boxes. When I got mine, I opened it up to see that this here, now, "pen," duplicated all the characteristics of the "pens" I had seen previously discussed as potential weapons.
This pen weighed almost two ounces, was over a half inch in diameter, had a non-retractible very fine point, and when you took off the cap and put it on the back, it made a really fine stabbing implement. The top of the cap was perfectly suited for your thumb to take up the thrust of a stab.
So I was sitting next to a fellow gunny and I held the pen up a little and looked at him with a mock-shock look and made subtle stabbing motions with it, and he looked back at me and nodded, grinning knowingly.
After the meeting we talked about it a little, and his comment was something like "it beats carrying a big rock around."
I thought about it some more, and besides having that "pen" around all the time, I started a rock collection for my office, all set up for display on one of my shelves.
One of those rocks weighed about a pound and a half and had a smoothly-rounded pointy end on it.
So now I'm retired and I can finally tell you about The Pen and The Rock.
Terry, 230RN
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Ironically, only one of those beats paper. =D
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^ Verrry good!
And parenthetically, the pretty box the pen came in held a Ruger MKII magazine nicely.