Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: gunsmith on May 29, 2011, 08:05:32 PM
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1391679/I-drank-urine-University-president-describes-survived-lost-days-Louisiana-swamp.html
YUCK!
How do you not find water in a swamp?
From what I understand you can purify water with sunlight, if you cant boil it.
He left his cell phone in the car too, a survival situation in cell phone range!
As soon as I get my bike fixed & my reg current I'm updating my survival gear, I'm way out in the boonies & this stuff seems to be happening more and more.
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Bear Gryls strikes again!
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he's so smart and educated he has no idea how to find drinkable water in a swamp. Ahhh, acdemia at its finest. [barf]
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Didn't Charlie Daniels write a song about this guy?
"If you're a university prez in the Leesiana swamp, well ya better not go at all",
Surprised he didn't run into ol' Lucius Clay.
=D
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awesome thread so far!
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He survived.
That matters a bit more than whether he's known all the proper book 'survivalism' stuff.
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I wonder if he is a fan on Bear Grylls.
Perhaps I am misinformed, but I have always heard that any fresh water (by fresh I mean not saltwater) is better than no water in a "lost in the woods" scenario. The idea being that without water you may die before being rescued. Any nasties you might pick up from drinking the water aren't going to get you for weeks. by that time you have either died or have been rescued and having been rescued you have access to modern medicine which will take care of the nasties.
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You can sure get lost in the Loosie-anna swampland...
=)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7GyLr7Cz2g
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Any nasties you might pick up from drinking the water aren't going to get you for weeks.
Nope. While some of the most common nasties might take weeks, others may only take hours. And then you die from dehydration anyway.
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I wonder if he is a fan on Bear Grylls.
Perhaps I am misinformed, but I have always heard that any fresh water (by fresh I mean not saltwater) is better than no water in a "lost in the woods" scenario. The idea being that without water you may die before being rescued. Any nasties you might pick up from drinking the water aren't going to get you for weeks. by that time you have either died or have been rescued and having been rescued you have access to modern medicine which will take care of the nasties.
Diarrhea strikes quickly and while merely miserable when you are at home within reach of the toilet and the fridge full of clear liquids...can easily deadly when your water supply is very limited or non-existent...
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yeah but
Even urine therapy advocates ( added by gunsmith, hey who knew there were advocates of urine drinking!) warn of the dangers of excessive urine consumption. During a worldwide conference of urine therapy practitioners, the Chinese Association of Urine Therapy warned that drinking urine has negative side effects, including diarrhea, fatigue, fever, and muscle soreness; and these symptoms increase with the amount of urine ingested.
looks like you get the diarrhea any way, I'm getting me one of those fancy light weight camping filters soon.
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Maybe there's different kinds of Louisiana swampland, but the two bits of the Lafitte Preserve I've been in were pretty clean and clear. I'd drink from 'em, no worries. Sure bad stuff can happen, but bad stuff has already happened and people drank water for a long, long time before filters.
Although this is a good argument in favor of those trendy steel water bottles. Carry your regular water bottle, toss a lighter in your pocket, and you're good to go for quite a lot longer than four days.
Have to make sure it doesn't have a plastic liner there. I remember there was quite the scandal in hippie circles when everyone noticed that Kleen Kanteens or one of the other trendy steel drinking bottles, not sure which, had a ZOMG EVIL BPA! plastic liner.
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Maybe there's different kinds of Louisiana swampland, but the two bits of the Lafitte Preserve I've been in were pretty clean and clear. I'd drink from 'em, no worries. Sure bad stuff can happen, but bad stuff has already happened and people drank water for a long, long time before filters.
Although this is a good argument in favor of those trendy steel water bottles. Carry your regular water bottle, toss a lighter in your pocket, and you're good to go for quite a lot longer than four days.
Have to make sure it doesn't have a plastic liner there. I remember there was quite the scandal in hippie circles when everyone noticed that Kleen Kanteens or one of the other trendy steel drinking bottles, not sure which, had a ZOMG EVIL BPA! plastic liner.
Sigg bottles are aluminum and had to eat crow about BPA being in their liners.
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He survived.
Four days. You do realize that the only needs you really have to meet in four days of minimal exertion are to prevent hypothermia and get a little water, right? A healthy person will not starve in that time, nor will their brain shut down from lack of Facebook access.
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You can sure get lost in the Loosie-anna swampland...
Yup; because the sun rises and sets in random directions there. ;/
Lost for a few hours I can see. Lost for days, unless there's a monsoon, is just dumb.
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I wonder if he is a fan on Bear Grylls.
Perhaps I am misinformed, but I have always heard that any fresh water (by fresh I mean not saltwater) is better than no water in a "lost in the woods" scenario. The idea being that without water you may die before being rescued. Any nasties you might pick up from drinking the water aren't going to get you for weeks. by that time you have either died or have been rescued and having been rescued you have access to modern medicine which will take care of the nasties.
Many of those nasties can make you sick within hours.He survived.
That matters a bit more than whether he's known all the proper book 'survivalism' stuff.
Like others noted....for a whopping four days. Kids have been lost and found in the woods for longer than that. Not exactly a feat of survivalisim.
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Maybe there's different kinds of Louisiana swampland, but the two bits of the Lafitte Preserve I've been in were pretty clean and clear. I'd drink from 'em, no worries. Sure bad stuff can happen, but bad stuff has already happened and people drank water for a long, long time before filters.
A couple of possible problems with that. We've become civilized enough that most of us are simply not able to handle the critters in most natural water because we're always drinking treated water, so our bodies aren't adapted. Even when they are, if you take a trip to a new locale with different critters in the water, you have to start adaptation all over again -- e.g., don't drink the water in Tijuana. I remember taking a hydrology class in college that included urban water and a field trip to water treatment facilities. Apparently our wastewater that goes through tertiary treatment is cleaner (or perhaps more accurately, more sterile) than most Mexican tap water.
I'm sure if you take clear water from a fast running source, you might be able to beat the odds, and if I had no other choice, I might do it. On the other hand carrying even a survival straw or clear plastic bag, or just carrying your water in a clear plastic bottle will let you do some filtering and decrease your chances of Montezuma's (or in this case Napoleon's) revenge. But your example of using fire is probably still the safest way to be sure.
Tangent: I recently caught an episode of a show called "Dual Survival". Kind of contrived, but it has an interesting premise of teaming a survivalist with a military background and training with a hippie guy that's into "aboriginal living" survivalism. The hippie guy walks everywhere barefoot and is into living with minimal modern inputs. In the episode I caught, they were "stranded" in Arizona, and one of their dilemmas was water. The hippie wanted to drink out of some scummy standing water because early humans would have, and all the larvae and insects and stuff would have been good protein. The military guy practically retched at the thought and would have none of it. Apparently the hippie drank crappy water all the time so his body was resistant to it.
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In the episode I caught, they were "stranded" in Arizona, and one of their dilemmas was water. The hippie wanted to drink out of some scummy standing water
Scummy standing water in the desert? Easy; dig a hole a few feet away. If it fills up too fast, move back a bit more and dig again. If you're still in doubt, cold cock the hippie, steal whatever he's lighting his doobs with and make a fire to boil the water.
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Yup; because the sun rises and sets in random directions there. ;/
Lost for a few hours I can see. Lost for days, unless there's a monsoon, is just dumb.
Not a Jerry Reed fan, are ya ? :lol:
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Scummy standing water in the desert? Easy; dig a hole a few feet away. If it fills up too fast, move back a bit more and dig again. If you're still in doubt, cold cock the hippie, steal whatever he's lighting his doobs with and make a fire to boil the water.
I have to say, at least in post-editing, the hippie was REALLY good at primitive fire starting.
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The hippie wanted to drink out of some scummy standing water because early humans would have, and all the larvae and insects and stuff would have been good protein.
You're lucky to have water so close. Many's the time I've had to drink out of a muddy hoofprint.
[/texas ranger]
=)
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You're lucky to have water so close. Many's the time I've had to drink out of a muddy hoofprint.
[/texas ranger]
=)
"If ever I meet one of you Texas waddies who ain't drunk water from a hoofprint, I think I'll... I'll shake their hand or buy 'em a Daniel Webster cigar. " / Rooster Cogburn
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Look, just so you know in case you ever find yourself in a similar situation, you find a patch of land a few feet from the water and dig a hole. The water seeping into the hole has been filtered by the ground, it may not taste or look appetizing but it will be safe. The real problem is animal feces contaminating the standing water, "beaver fever" as it is known. Save your urine for peeing on your jellyfish stings. lol...
also, in the morning your first chore would be to lick as much dew from the leaves as possible.
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Look, just so you know in case you ever find yourself in a similar situation, you find a patch of land a few feet from the water and dig a hole. The water seeping into the hole has been filtered by the ground, it may not taste or look appetizing but it will be safe. The real problem is animal feces contaminating the standing water, "beaver fever" as it is known. Save your urine for peeing on your jellyfish stings. lol...
also, in the morning your first chore would be to lick as much dew from the leaves as possible.
"Leaflets three, let them be." Poison Ivy (or whatever) of the tongue/throat would be counter-productive to survival.
[barf]
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a thing I learned in the scouts was setting up a plastic sheet a few inches off the ground with a pebble in the middle that collects the dew into a container, fancy rigs have a straw of some kind to drink it
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Real simple...carry a small kit with you if you're hiking. A buddy and I built fanny pack kits to show the local Scout troop for their Wilderness Survival merit badge. Fire starting materials, basic first aid kit, metal water bottle and water treatment gear, small fishing tackle, fishing line and para cord. Add a good knife (or 2 in my case) and you're set. Light weight, easy to carry, and will help you keep your bacon out of the fire.
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Peter La Fleur: [after Patches hits Justin in the face with a wrench] Yeah, uh, Patches... are you sure that this is completely necessary?
Patches O'Houlihan: Necessary? Is it necessary for me to drink my own urine?
Peter La Fleur: Probably not.
Patches O'Houlihan: No, but I do it anyway because it's sterile and I like the taste.
Peter La Fleur: ...Okay.
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I have to say, at least in post-editing, the hippie was REALLY good at primitive fire starting.
That "hippie" is a very well known bushcrafter and survival expert. I'd trust him over Bear Grylls any day.
Chris
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"Leaflets three, let them be." Poison Ivy (or whatever) of the tongue/throat would be counter-productive to survival.
[barf]
true, very true...
In that case, be careful! :lol:
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true, very true...
In that case, be careful! :lol:
=D
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That "hippie" is a very well known bushcrafter and survival expert. I'd trust him over Bear Grylls any day.
Chris
Amen.
I know I've been down this route before....but Grylls is a nitwit. Half the stuff he does because it's a "survival" situation is moronic. Jumping into a frigid river's rapids? :facepalm: Swimming under a logjam in a slot canyon, with no idea how far it goes? :facepalm: Jumping into a hole in the ice in Norway? :facepalm: It goes on and on.
And speaking of him jumping into the rapids in that episode....as soon as he gets fully wet, you can see the damn lifejacket under his clothes. Yeah, because you'll just have a lifejacket in the mountains during a survival situation. :facepalm:
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Amen.
I know I've been down this route before....but Grylls is a nitwit. Half the stuff he does because it's a "survival" situation is moronic. Jumping into a frigid river's rapids? :facepalm: Swimming under a logjam in a slot canyon, with no idea how far it goes? :facepalm: Jumping into a hole in the ice in Norway? :facepalm: It goes on and on.
And speaking of him jumping into the rapids in that episode....as soon as he gets fully wet, you can see the damn lifejacket under his clothes. Yeah, because you'll just have a lifejacket in the mountains during a survival situation. :facepalm:
There's a million things like that on his show. People obsessed with debunking him showed how one scene was literally just yards from the parks parking lot. Another "impassable" crevasse he jumped ended on closed flat ground like 6 feet out of the shot. :laugh:
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"Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom with Marlin Perkins" it has been going on forever. :laugh:
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Jumping into a hole in the ice in Norway?
Ice-water swimming is stupid now?
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Ice-water swimming is stupid now?
If you're in a survival situation and you don't have a very specific reason for doing so (ie that's the only way out and help isn't coming and you WILL die otherwise), yes, it's very stupid.
Chris
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That "hippie" is a very well known bushcrafter and survival expert. I'd trust him over Bear Grylls any day.
Chris
This.
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If you're in a survival situation and you don't have a very specific reason for doing so (ie that's the only way out and help isn't coming and you WILL die otherwise), yes, it's very stupid.
Chris
Yup. Cold and wet will kill you fast. In a survival situation, you want to be the opposite of cold and wet if at all possible. About the only things more important than not being cold and wet is keeping your blood inside your body and remaining able to breath.
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Ice-water swimming is stupid now?
Like Chris said....you don't do stupid *expletive deleted*it when you're trying to survive. Slow and steady and methodical. No risks. When you don't have a camera crew and ambulance standing by, even a small cut can kill you in days. A broken bone or hypothermia? Fuggetaboutit!
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Like Chris said....you don't do stupid *expletive deleted* when you're trying to survive. Slow and steady and methodical. No risks. When you don't have a camera crew and ambulance standing by, even a small cut can kill you in days. A broken bone or hypothermia? Fuggetaboutit!
Ice swimming is a legit sport in these countries, practiced by both young people and old. I'm assuming Bear Grylls has the appropriate training.
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Ice swimming is a legit sport in these countries, practiced by both young people and old. I'm assuming Bear Grylls has the appropriate training.
He is presenting his actions as appropriate for a survival situation. Sport swimming in ice water is not survival situation.
Chris
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Bear Grylls is useful in a way - by showing what NOT to do.
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Ice swimming is a legit sport in these countries, practiced by both young people and old. I'm assuming Bear Grylls has the appropriate training.
:facepalm:
You don't seem to have a grasp of the situation.
BG passes his antics off as appropriate in a SURVIVAL situation. Intentionally making yourself hypothermic? :facepalm:
We're not talking about a controlled sport where you go home and drink beer at night.
Just like one of his first episodes where he crossed the river (with a life jacket, of course). Dipshit jumps right into the rapids. An ill prepared person trying to cross a rapid without a lifejacket is likely to drown, or be injured by the rocks. The smarter course of action is to take some time and work your way downstream and find a pool to cross. Take a couple logs and find something to strap them together with, strip, put your clothes on the log, and swim naked, thus keeping your clothes dry. Get out, air dry, build a fire and warm up if its real cold, dress into your dry clothes. Live.
Doesn't make for good tv, though. ;/
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Take a couple logs and find something to strap them together with, strip, put your clothes on the log, and swim naked, thus keeping your clothes dry. Get out, air dry, build a fire and warm up if its real cold, dress into your dry clothes. Live.
Doesn't make for good tv, though.
It would if the survivalist was female :lol:
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2nd night of a winter school campout -
My friend/tentmate - "I froze last night"
Me: " Strip out of your clothes and hang them to dry. Socks, underwear, everything."
Him: "They'll make fun of us!"
Me: "Change into clean skivvies in your sleeping bag if you must, but I'll tell ya: If you want another night freezing then sleep in your clothes. Wanna stay warm? Strip out and hang your clothes."
He didn't, and chose not to go camping with the school again.
It's amazing what just a tiny bit of moisture can do on a winter campout.
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Oh, and let the jokes begin. :laugh:
Didn't bother me then (24 some years ago), shouldn't bother me now.
[popcorn]
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Oh, and let the jokes begin. :laugh:
Didn't bother me then (24 some years ago), shouldn't bother me now.
[popcorn]
Shrinkage isn't nearly as funny when everyone has it. :laugh:
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We were all "shrinkaged" :lol:. Buffalo Forks, Jefferson National Forest, Virginia, in January or February. Actually, now that I think on it... the hatchery was about to release a bunch of trout. Might have been later, towards spring. Anyway, it was pretty damned cold.
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I caught another couple of episodes of Dual Survival tonight. The regular time is apparently 6pm Pacific / 9pm Eastern Fridays on Discovery.
The first one was interesting because they were in a cloud forest in Panama and had the opposite problem of the desert one I watched -- too much water. It was so wet and cold that they had to spend an inordinate amount of time trying to build some kind of platform to keep semi-dry, because even fire guy couldn't start a fire here. He squeezed the driest tinder he found and it poured out water.
The second one was your standard "life raft and tropical island" episode that every survival series seems to do, but they had an interesting twist where they used copper tubing and a tin can to purify seawater.
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:facepalm:
You don't seem to have a grasp of the situation.
BG passes his antics off as appropriate in a SURVIVAL situation. Intentionally making yourself hypothermic? :facepalm:
Oh, no, no, I do.
It is a semi-fictionalized TV show. Anybody who thinks a man that is being filmed by multiple camera crews is 'surviving' anything is downright mad, or stupid. Anybody who thinks he can learn actual survival techniques from such a show is downright mad, or stupid.
But the show does make an important point: in a survival situation, you will often end up doing things that are unhealthy or dangerous, that you would not do in a non-survival situation, because they'd be too dangerous.
In the day to day world, I would never, ever consider making my own explosive charge and setting it off in the house in which I live. I would never consider conducting amateur eye surgery. I would not consider drinking saltwater. These are dangerous things - but a survival expert should correctly point out that sometimes it is appropriate to do them.
If you hesitate at the moment of truth, and not do something because it seems 'dangerous' or 'icky' or 'unhealthy' when it desperately needs to be done, you will die.
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I flip right through all of it and have no idea who Bear wtf is. :laugh:
Did watch some dude once sliding down a crevasse waterfall chute thing in a glacier once. I didn't really think it was all that smart. What if you get to sliding and all there was at the end was a nice deep pool of water? Nice knowin' ya! Kind of like being a bug in one of those pitcher type flytrap plants. [popcorn]
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But the show does make an important point: in a survival situation, you will often end up doing things that are unhealthy or dangerous, that you would not do in a non-survival situation, because they'd be too dangerous.
Actually, that is the worst point he could make in the show.
You, sir, are wrong.
While drinking your own piss a few times might be fine, most of his idiotic antics are a STUPID IDEA when you don't have the full support of a rescue team and are really, truely lost.
If you are not sure when you might be rescued, or when you might affect self-rescue, taking risks and making unhealthy or dangerous choices can KILL YOU.
It all seems nice and neat in an hour on the tube from our living room couch.
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Its always a very good idea to let a few people know what your plans are and when you should be back. Ask the kid who cut his arm off.
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If you are not sure when you might be rescued, or when you might affect self-rescue, taking risks and making unhealthy or dangerous choices can KILL YOU.
Yes, that is sort of the point of taking risks. It can kill you, but sometimes doing something that CAN kill you is better than doing something that will certainly kill you.
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People who get lost deserve to drink their own urine.
I mean, is it so flipping hard to check your watch and keep walking in one direction for hours? Eventually, if you picked the right direction, you will hit a road.
The boy scouts troop I was once in did this to 15-yr old teenage kids.. around midnight, they were blindfolded and driven, then lead deep into the woods, and given a lamp, a photocopied map and matches, but in a sealed bag. Most of them marched the 15-30 kms back to the camp without ever resorting to use the map, or the light. Worst thing that could happen to them was being chased by gypsies for some miles.
If the sky's clear, even a dolt can find polaris. And if it's not ...well.. there's still the moon and the watches. Also, settlements tend to produce a glow which can be seen from afar.
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Yes, that is sort of the point of taking risks. It can kill you, but sometimes doing something that CAN kill you is better than doing something that will certainly kill you.
Like cutting one's arm off when there is no hope of rescue?
Thats a whole *expletive deleted*it load different than the risks BG takes. Running parkour style through the moab desert? Nothing like wasting your energy and hydration. Have you ever been in south Utah? Jumping into the rapids of a 40 degree river? Yeah, nevermind if you go a mile downstream you're likely to find a calm pool to cross. Have you ever been out of the raft in a rapid in a 40 degree river?
The sort of risks one might take might be calculated risks. BG doesn't take calcuated risks, he does what on the surface looks like stupid acts. Now, he's got a camera crew, a sat phone, and a rescue helo on standby. Get your jeep stuck on a trail 40 miles into the backcountry where nobody's been in years? Sink your sailboat off a deserted pacific island in the middle of a monsoon? You've got none of the things at your disposal that BG has behind the scenes. A calculated risk is one thing. A stupid risk? Yeah, dying of a compound fracture in a slot canyon somewhere, or drowning in a freezing rapid because you hit your head? *expletive deleted*ck that.
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I've sum 30 minutes in 52* water. It was like getting a reverse brain freeze. I had to keep my head out of the water to keep it from aching. 40* water? no thanks...
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Like cutting one's arm off when there is no hope of rescue?
Thats a whole *expletive deleted* load different than the risks BG takes. Running parkour style through the moab desert? Nothing like wasting your energy and hydration. Have you ever been in south Utah? Jumping into the rapids of a 40 degree river? Yeah, nevermind if you go a mile downstream you're likely to find a calm pool to cross. Have you ever been out of the raft in a rapid in a 40 degree river?
The sort of risks one might take might be calculated risks. BG doesn't take calcuated risks, he does what on the surface looks like stupid acts. Now, he's got a camera crew, a sat phone, and a rescue helo on standby. Get your jeep stuck on a trail 40 miles into the backcountry where nobody's been in years? Sink your sailboat off a deserted pacific island in the middle of a monsoon? You've got none of the things at your disposal that BG has behind the scenes. A calculated risk is one thing. A stupid risk? Yeah, dying of a compound fracture in a slot canyon somewhere, or drowning in a freezing rapid because you hit your head? *expletive deleted* that.
Perfect synopsis of that show.
Gotta wonder how many people actually take the stupid *expletive deleted*it he does seriously.
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REI kinda does, or at least thinks they can sell crap in his name. I was in there today and walked past a display of BG edition Gerber knives.
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REI kinda does, or at least thinks they can sell crap in his name. I was in there today and walked past a display of BG edition Gerber knives.
Those are sold just about everywhere now.
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Those are sold just about everywhere now.
Seen a pile of BG gear in 'outdoor supply' stores in Ireland.
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Seen a pile of BG gear in 'outdoor supply' stores in Ireland.
Did they have the signature model hydration system?
http://5z8.info/twitterhack_d7d7kc_instant-purchase :angel: