Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: roo_ster on June 12, 2011, 09:00:30 PM
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http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2011/06/blessed-are-the-spongers-thats-not-what-st-paul-said-archbishop-.html
Why is it so bad to draw a line between the deserving and the undeserving poor? I have searched the Sermon on the Mount for the words ‘Blessed are the Spongers’ and I cannot find them – or anything remotely like them...
..As Dr Williams has decided to take up political commentating, I think I shall do a little bit of Archbishoping. Here beginneth the first lesson: In St Paul’s first epistle to Timothy, Chapter 5, we read: ‘If any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.’
And in his second epistle to the Thessalonians, St Paul rubs it in, in that way he has: ‘This we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.’
The Archbisop of Canterbury is not the only cleric to proclaim "Blessed are hte spongers."
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Therein lies the next frontier in the debate about curbing government expenditures. We absolutely must begin to differentiate among recipients of government largesse. That differentiation will have to be made on moral principles the Left has worked overtime to ignore and discredit.
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If a person CAN'T work, that's one thing.
If a person WON'T work, fruckem, let them starve.
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If a person CAN'T work, that's one thing.
If a person WON'T work, fruckem, let them starve.
Is being in the British Royal Family working? They receive a ton of taxpayer dollars.
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Is being in the British Royal Family working? They receive a ton of taxpayer dollars.
Exactly.
Billions of dollars have been amassed through state-sanctioned slavery in the past, and now through corporate welfare. But we're now supposed to jump on board when those people lecture us about economic discipline and saving (not that Hitchens is included in that category - but he does appear to like pleasing those people).
I find very few things more irritating than hearing recipients of corporate welfare lecture on the principles of a free economy and hard work.
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Exactly.
Billions of dollars have been amassed through state-sanctioned slavery in the past, and now through corporate welfare. But we're now supposed to jump on board when those people lecture us about economic discipline and saving.
You don't see how that's an ad hominem argument?
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I find very few things more irritating than hearing recipients of corporate welfare lecture on the principles of a free economy and hard work.
That's funny, cause I find very few things more irritating than hearing the recipients of corporate welfare and cronyism lecture me about the need for "sacrifice" and "sustainability." Almost as much as the purveyors of cronyism doing the same.
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You don't see how that's an ad hominem argument?
Are you serious? There's no argument in that sentence.
We should have a forum guide on the use of the phrase "ad hominem argument." Ad hom is becoming to forums what "strategic" is to Government & Corporate presentations.
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How about we stop facilitating both?
Corporate and individual spongers/looters.
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How about we stop facilitating both?
Corporate and individual spongers/looters.
Sounds good to me.
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Are you serious? There's no argument in that sentence.
We should have a forum guide on the use of the phrase "ad hominem argument." Ad hom is becoming to forums what "strategic" is to Government & Corporate presentations.
No, I can see your argument. Even when you attempt to muddy the waters by a half-hearted allegation about how Hitchens may not necessarily be a hypocrite, but the people who agree with him are.
I don't defend corporate welfare, but at least corporations sometimes produce stuff.
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Nobody likes welfare cheats, but they are by far the least of our financial and other problems. I suspect that the TSA budget far surpasses the expenses for welfare cheats, and they cost us more than just money. It's not vast increases in welfare benefits (okay, maybe corporate) that have shot the budget skyhigh.
Also, am I the only one that thinks it a bit weird that a devout atheist is doing expository preaching on scripture?
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If a person CAN'T work, that's one thing.
If a person WON'T work, fruckem, let them starve.
Great. Let the church feed them. Let thier family feed them. Let the Red Cross feed them. But Government holding a gun to my head and making me feed them? Immoral. Disgusting. Theft.
Is being in the British Royal Family working? They receive a ton of taxpayer dollars.
A large majority of users of this site are in the United States. We fought a war to get rid of the royal family, 'member?
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Nobody likes welfare cheats, but they are by far the least of our financial and other problems. I suspect that the TSA budget far surpasses the expenses for welfare cheats, and they cost us more than just money. It's not vast increases in welfare benefits (okay, maybe corporate) that have shot the budget skyhigh.
Also, am I the only one that thinks it a bit weird that a devout atheist is doing expository preaching on scripture?
Now there's an argument - and one that's pretty tough to refute. The big waste isn't in welfare cheats, who are lucky to pull the price of a new pair of sneakers and some jewellery in a good month of welfare scamming.
Sorry fistful, but observing hypocrisy is not an argument - I suppose you could make it one by challenging the assertion that taking government cash while bemoaning government handouts is hypocritical. I doubt anyone here would take that seriously enough to discuss, though.
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Sorry fistful, but observing hypocrisy is not an argument - I suppose you could make it one by challenging the assertion that taking government cash while bemoaning government handouts is hypocritical. I doubt anyone here would take that seriously enough to discuss, though.
Don't back down now. You've said that Hitchens' view should be dismissed because some people who agree with him are hypocrites. You've made your ad hominem argument, now stand by it like a man.
Or you could just try to weasel your way out of it, while putting words in my mouth. Oh, wait - you're already doing that.
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Nobody likes welfare cheats, but they are by far the least of our financial and other problems. I suspect that the TSA budget far surpasses the expenses for welfare cheats, and they cost us more than just money. It's not vast increases in welfare benefits (okay, maybe corporate) that have shot the budget skyhigh.
Also, am I the only one that thinks it a bit weird that a devout atheist is doing expository preaching on scripture?
Wrong Hitchens.
Peter Hitchens: Brit conservative & Christian
Christopher Hitchens(0): Brit trotskyite(1) & atheist about to meet his Maker.
They are brothers.
(0) Named "Christopher," but denies Christ. Funny stuff, that.
(1) This particular flavor of trotskyism was/is too cute by half. Essentially, the ideology & org position amounted to, "Everything that Trotsky believed, wrote, and did, except for the mean murderous stuff. We disavow all that mess."
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Don't back down now. You've said that Hitchens' view should be dismissed because some people who agree with him are hypocrites. You've made your ad hominem argument, now stand by it like a man.
Or you could just try to weasel your way out of it, while putting words in my mouth. Oh, wait - you're already doing that.
You left the two scoops of polite out of your coffee this morning. To note that is probably the only fruitful contribution to be made in response to your rudeness and misunderstanding.
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Now there's an argument - and one that's pretty tough to refute. The big waste isn't in welfare cheats, who are lucky to pull the price of a new pair of sneakers and some jewellery in a good month of welfare scamming.
Sorry fistful, but observing hypocrisy is not an argument - I suppose you could make it one by challenging the assertion that taking government cash while bemoaning government handouts is hypocritical. I doubt anyone here would take that seriously enough to discuss, though.
I disagree. I think Welfare cheats add up to a large amount, especially if you include the Welfare bureaucracy that distributes the money. You can add "Unemployment Cheats" to that list also. That at least you can blame in part on Congress for continually extending benefits.
A relative of my brother's in laws is on disability. Last I saw him, his mother was pushing him around on a wheelchair. He could stand and walk a little. He certainly was capable of working, but didn't work and didn't do anything at all from what I heard. IMO, that lack of productivity is enabled by welfare and disability benefits.
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You left the two scoops of polite euphemism out of your coffee this morning. To note that is probably the only fruitful contribution to be made in response to your rudeness candor and misunderstanding accurate description of my responses.
FTFY
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Nobody likes welfare cheats, but they are by far the least of our financial and other problems. I suspect that the TSA budget far surpasses the expenses for welfare cheats, and they cost us more than just money. It's not vast increases in welfare benefits (okay, maybe corporate) that have shot the budget skyhigh.
Also, am I the only one that thinks it a bit weird that a devout atheist is doing expository preaching on scripture?
Welfare cheats aren't problem one; the people who make their living "servicing" the cheats are. Welfare cheats rarely vote; well-paid gov't bureaucrats always do.
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Wrong Hitchens.
Peter Hitchens: Brit conservative & Christian
Christopher Hitchens(0): Brit trotskyite(1) & atheist about to meet his Maker.
They are brothers.
(0) Named "Christopher," but denies Christ. Funny stuff, that.
(1) This particular flavor of trotskyism was/is too cute by half. Essentially, the ideology & org position amounted to, "Everything that Trotsky believed, wrote, and did, except for the mean murderous stuff. We disavow all that mess."
Ah. That makes sense. I had a WTF moment when I was thinking the guy who ripped Mother Teresa a new one post-mortem was the same guy quoting scripture like it was more meaningful than a Tom Clancy novel.
Family gatherings must be fun. :laugh:
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You left the two scoops of polite out of your coffee this morning. To note that is probably the only fruitful contribution to be made in response to your rudeness and misunderstanding.
Yes, we've already seen that you can misdirect the conversation with complaints against the messenger. You get no extra treats for performing the same trick twice.
I hope we can return to the issue at hand now.
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I suspect that the TSA budget far surpasses the expenses for welfare cheats,
TSA Budget for 2011: $8.1 billion (http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=110_cong_reports&docid=f:sr396.110.pdf)
"Income security" Federal expenditures in 2010: $624 billion (http://www.fms.treas.gov/annualreport/cs2010/outlay.pdf)
So if 1.3% of the "income security" payments are going to leeches, that single category will exceed the TSA budget. That's just one small part of the Federal expenditures for welfare programs.
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TSA Budget for 2011: $8.1 billion (http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=110_cong_reports&docid=f:sr396.110.pdf)
"Income security" Federal expenditures in 2010: $624 billion (http://www.fms.treas.gov/annualreport/cs2010/outlay.pdf)
So if 1.3% of the "income security" payments are going to leeches, that single category will exceed the TSA budget. That's just one small part of the Federal expenditures for welfare programs.
Well, since Al Gore reinvented government, I am sure 1.3% more than overestimates the total wastage in the welfare budget.
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And I thought this would be about the Greek guys out of Tarpon Springs. Sponge Docks and Sponge Exchange in Tarpon Springs are a tourist destination in FLA.
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Wrong Hitchens.
Peter Hitchens: Brit conservative & Christian
Christopher Hitchens(0): Brit trotskyite(1) & atheist about to meet his Maker.
They are brothers.
(0) Named "Christopher," but denies Christ. Funny stuff, that.
(1) This particular flavor of trotskyism was/is too cute by half. Essentially, the ideology & org position amounted to, "Everything that Trotsky believed, wrote, and did, except for the mean murderous stuff. We disavow all that mess."
Is Christopher Hitchens dying? I think he's about 60.
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Is Christopher Hitchens dying? I think he's about 60.
Throat cancer.
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I gotta remember this line from the original article:
As Dr Williams has decided to take up political commentating, I think I shall do a little bit of Archbishoping.
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Is being in the British Royal Family working? They receive a ton of taxpayer dollars.
They are the titular heads of State of the United Kingdom.
They are LEGALLY empowered to unseat the prime minister and dismiss parlaiment, and call for a reformation of government. I expect that they do their homework in regards to that issue.
This is the lawful government currently in place in the UK.
I fail to understand your snark in regards to the lawful governance of Great Britain.