Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: zxcvbob on June 23, 2011, 08:18:29 PM
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I want to try an Oregon 72CK chain just to see what it's like but don't want to get roped into taking it in for professional sharpening every time I use it. That's a square-cut semi-skip chisel chain. Supposed to cut really fast and smooth in clean wood but doesn't tolerate dirt. When it gets dull can I dress it with a round file? I assume it would revert to a round-cut chisel chain after a few touchups or a real sharpening, but I don't know. Maybe round-cut and square-cut chains start out with totally different cutters.
Does the question even make any sense?
Little saw uses 91 chain; there's not nearly so many choices there.
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When it gets dull can I dress it with a round file? I assume it would revert to a round-cut chisel chain after a few touchups or a real sharpening, but I don't know. Maybe round-cut and square-cut chains start out with totally different cutters.
I believe that you have to use a totally different file throughout the life of the chain.
I've always used the round ground chain - 72LP, 72LG, 72JG ...
From the Oregon application book:
Square-ground chains require highlh skilled sharpening and are less forgiving of sharpening errors than round-ground chains
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Yeah, I'm just wondering what happens though if you use a round file on a square-ground chain. Seems like worse case you would have to file all the way to the bottom of the gullet the first time -- but if you just give it a few licks with a file without taking it all the way down, it should sharpen just the point and the bottom, and the point does almost all the cutting anyway.
For $14 I may try it just out of curiosity. Unless you can think of a reason it's particularly dangerous.
(I usually use round-ground semichisel chains; sometimes antikickback and sometimes not. The saw doesn't have a chain brake, I wish it did)
Thanks.
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Try it and let us know. I haven't even heard of a square chain. I just keep mine sharp and carry three or four spares with me.
I'm lazy. I would rather sharpen a bunch of chain sitting by the fire then keep touching up the one. And it makes it easy to clean out the oil holes and flip the bar when I change out the chain.
jim
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I have been using regular round file chains on my saws for 40 years. They work just fine. I used to put up 10 cords of wood for heat and cut cedar as a side job when I lived in the up. If they get dull, just dress them with a file. A clamp on the bar sharpener setup is pretty cheap and work really well. BTW, what kind of cutting are you doing anyway? chris3
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I'm just wondering what happens though if you use a round file on a square-ground chain.
Sorta like putting a square peg in a round hole.
I don't think you could even do it with a hand file and keep the angles anywhere near close to correct.
However, you could pay to have it mechanically sharpened with a standard round ground bench chain sharpener, and then file it normally from then on.
I'm not sure why you would want to do this, though ???
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BTW, what kind of cutting are you doing anyway?
Not much, actually. :'( But I just bought a new chainsaw* -- it was on sale so cheap I couldn't afford not to buy it -- and I need to get some spare chains for it. While I'm at, I thought I'd get a couple of professional chains for my big saw**. I have a friend with some acreage with some still-standing storm damaged trees and I'll probably help him cut them.
*Husqvarna 235E with a 16" bar (paid $150 for it, new.) It's the lightest duty saw they make, but I cut up some 16" oak logs with it last week and it handled that just fine. Really surprised me.
**Echo CS-660EVL with a 20" bar. I bought it about 25 years ago. (it needs the carburetor cleaned and/or rebuilt. It ran fine last year but won't start now unless I pour gas down it, then it dies as soon as that's gone) It has so much compression it tries to rip your arm off when you pull the starter.
I really need to find a supply of non-oxygenated gasoline. Everything they sell at the pumps here is 10% ethanol, even the Premium.
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I think you need to just get a standard loop for your saw.
As I recall, there are three basic types of chains (aside from ripping chain, etc):
1) round-filed round tooth: used a lot for firewood and dirty work; doesn't cut all that great but will still cut when dull; easy to sharpen
2) round-filed square tooth: used by a lot of professionals; cuts fast when sharp but doesn't cut well once you knock off the points; fairly easy to sharpen (the angle is more critical)
3) square-filed square tooth: high performance professional chain; cuts extremely fast when sharp; hard to sharpen
What you probably want is either #1 or #2. I've used #2 almost exclusively.
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Try it and let us know. I haven't even heard of a square chain. I just keep mine sharp and carry three or four spares with me.
I'm lazy. I would rather sharpen a bunch of chain sitting by the fire then keep touching up the one. And it makes it easy to clean out the oil holes and flip the bar when I change out the chain.
jim
I've never heard of a square toothed chain either.
If I'm cutting up wood in the yard I'll touch up the chain. If I'm out getting wood to bring back I'll take spares out with me and swap as needed.
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chisel and semi chisel. you gotta keep it outa dirt but it'll scare you with how it cuts
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My future BIL works full time for a landscaping company. He said that his boss buys big cans of racing fuel and that's all they run in the trimmers anymore, due to the ethanol.
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chisel and semi chisel. you gotta keep it outa dirt but it'll scare you with how it cuts
semi chisel is the round filed version
I always touched up my chains every other tank of gas or so. Just free handed with a round file with a handle, no guide.
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yea i have chainsaw envy from arboristsite.com. its scary what a pro can do. how do you sharpen chisel? will my benchtop electric do it if i get right wheel?
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yea i have chainsaw envy from arboristsite.com. its scary what a pro can do. how do you sharpen chisel? will my benchtop electric do it if i get right wheel?
They make the flat top chisel chains with either a round-grind or a square-grind. You sharpen the "round chisel" chains just like a round semi-chisel, you just have to do it more often because they dull faster.
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http://www.baileysonline.com/
;)
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I ordered one 72DPX chain, one 72LPX, and one 72CK, just to see what kind I like. At $12 apiece (OK, the CK was $14), they are cheaper than a professional sharpening, and I'm not out much if I ruin one.
Good thing I didn't order from Bailey's cuz they have about 20 different 3/8" x .050 chains instead of just 3 or 4. (https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gunrightsmedia.com%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2Fcool.gif&hash=4513f1ac007d9fc357a0e4bd8e88f1126f8c9bed)
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That sounds like a pretty cheap price unless you have an awfully short bar.
I haven't bought any chain since the last 100' roll more than ten years ago. I think I still have enough left for a loop or two. (30" bar = 98 cutters IIRC)
Generally, if you have cut more than a couple hours, the chain is dull and needs sharpening.
Back in Colorado I used skip chain partially because it was faster to sharpen (fewer teeth) but it doesn't work worth a darn on this gnarly eastern Montana pine.
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20" bar, 70 drive links. The 72CK chain is a semiskip square-filed chisel, so there will be fewer cutters to sharpen and maybe it won't dig in and bog down the saw if I sharpen it badly. That one was maybe a waste of money, but I should get at least $14 worth of aggravation out of it :D
The other two are normal round-filed chains; one chisel and one semichisel.
I don't even know what kind of chains I have already; most of them are probably Oregon consumer D70 chains, and one is a Stihl chain with a yellow tie so it's some kind of professional chain. And I should probably throw away the rusty chain hanging on a nail in my garage. I was planning to soak it in some oil and sharpen it and use it again, but there's no point in wearing out the bar like that. (I thought new chains were $25 to $35 apiece)
Most of the wood around here is elm, oak, and silver maple. (and buckthorn) It all cuts pretty easy.
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Back in Colorado I used skip chain partially because it was faster to sharpen (fewer teeth) but it doesn't work worth a darn on this gnarly eastern Montana pine.
Are skip chains used to maintain high rpms on long bars / smaller powerheads, or is there another reason for their use?
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semi chisel is the round filed version
I always touched up my chains every other tank of gas or so. Just free handed with a round file with a handle, no guide.
This. Find a seat in a shady spot, keep some water handy, and cool off while keeping that sucker sharp. 5-10 minutes spent sharpening will save much more than that in cutting time (if you cut much at all).
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Are skip chains used to maintain high rpms on long bars / smaller powerheads, or is there another reason for their use?
That, and more clearance for ejecting the chips. And faster to sharpen.
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there will be fewer cutters to sharpen and maybe it won't dig in and bog down the saw if I sharpen it badly.
Actually, I think it will be the other way around :(
Skip/semi-skip is good for long bars and big softwood trees without too many big limbs. On smaller and harder wood, the skip chains tend to bounce and tear the hell out of themselves, the saw, and the sawyer.
The reason loggers tend to use longer bars, besides cutting bigger trees, is that you can limb a fallen tree without bending over so much. Short bars kill the back in a hurry.
Of course most everything is done with feller-bunchers now ;/
I usually sit down on a log or stump to sharpen, and set the saw with the throttle grip on the ground and the bar straight up. I can do both sides by just spinning the saw on the point of the grip. Worst part for me anymore is that I have to take my glasses off to see the cutters. :mad:
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there will be fewer cutters to sharpen and maybe it won't dig in and bog down the saw if I sharpen it badly.
Actually, I think it will be the other way around
D'oh! :facepalm:
I should still get $14 worth of aggravation out of it.
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http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f9c_1308368459 (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f9c_1308368459)
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semi chisel is the round filed version
I always touched up my chains every other tank of gas or so. Just free handed with a round file with a handle, no guide.
Same here, speaking of that I need to start cutting wood. I found a nice large but frost cracked walnut that will make excellent firewood.
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I'm in Texas; been cleaning up the back lot of my parents' place that has some storm-downed trees. Anyway, been using my dad's chainsaw and want to get him some new chains from where I ordered some from last year. He is using Stihl 26RSC74 chains. I can decode everything in that part number except the 'C'. (.325" x .063" x 74 links, "rapid cut" chisel chain.)
Any ideas what the RSC means, as opposed to just RS?
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"Comfort" apparently, but I have no clue what that's supposed to mean relative to a saw chain =|
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Found it ...
Rapid Super Comfort
Very low vibration high-performance saw chain for professional use in felling and harvesting timber. Good positioning, very smooth cutting and low tendency to chatter. Cutting performance and use is similar to Rapid Super or Rapid Micro. The special design with a bevelled cutter heel ensures that less vibration is transmitted to the guide bar and the operator.
=)
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Thanks. I was pretty sure you would know, or know where to find it.
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Thanks. I was pretty sure you would know, or know where to find it.
There's this thing called "Google" =D
I used Oregon chain most of the time, so those were the numbers I knew: 72LP etc ...
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There's this thing called "Google" =D
I used Oregon chain most of the time, so those were the numbers I knew: 72LP etc ...
Here's the document I was looking at: http://www.stihllibrary.com/pdfs/SawChainSelection.pdf Also was looking at stihlusa.com instead of stihl.com :facepalm:
I use Oregon chains; the professional chain when available. I'm going to order a couple of Oregon 22LPX74's as a substitute for the Stihl 26RSC, and a 72DPX70 for his bigger saw for cutting dirty wood that's on the ground.
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I ordered a few saw chains and plastic wedges for my dad, and a couple of chains for me. (I gotta take the chains out of their boxes to get them to fit in a flat rate box, so I'm putting them in baggies and sending the folded empty boxes along.)
I also ordered me a spare NKG BPM7A sparkplug. I didn't *need* a sparkplug, but I think my saws still have their original 20-year-old plugs. :doh: They sent me a Bosch WSR6F. It looks like it cross-references OK, but I can't tell if it's the right heat range. Does that really matter on a saw that's seldom used for more than a half hour at a time? Even if it is totally unusable it's not worth sending back, or even calling them about it, cuz it only cost $2.