Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: roo_ster on July 01, 2011, 12:16:51 AM
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I posted a while back about installing radiant barrier (www.atticfoil.com) in our attic, as well as an attic gable end fan, and blown insulation. Well, we got all but the blown insulation. The insulation was a bridge too far. It will wait until the fall.
Haven't looked at the electric bill, but one thing is for sure, the house is a whole lot more comfy and the AC doesn't run as much. Even if I don't save a dime, it will have been worth it to make the interior more livable.
In contrast, the last two or three summers, we'd used a little $100 110V window unit in the MBR to supplement the central unit. Haven't needed that this year.
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Attic fans are great. I put one in my house 10-11 years ago and it made a huge difference. Of course I waited till June of that year and even though I had the installation doen by 10:00am I still nearly put myself in the hospital from too much heat. That and making the electrical connections while sweat was litteraly running off of me was a bit un-nerving even though the breaker was off.
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I posted a while back about installing radiant barrier (www.atticfoil.com) in our attic, as well as an attic gable end fan, and blown insulation. Well, we got all but the blown insulation. The insulation was a bridge too far. It will wait until the fall.
Haven't looked at the electric bill, but one thing is for sure, the house is a whole lot more comfy and the AC doesn't run as much. Even if I don't save a dime, it will have been worth it to make the interior more livable.
In contrast, the last two or three summers, we'd used a little $100 110V window unit in the MBR to supplement the central unit. Haven't needed that this year.
Thanks for posting this. I've been thinking about adding insulation to the attic this year. I think this foil stuff may be a great addition to it.
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Attic fans are great. I put one in my house 10-11 years ago and it made a huge difference. Of course I waited till June of that year and even though I had the installation doen by 10:00am I still nearly put myself in the hospital from too much heat. That and making the electrical connections while sweat was litteraly running off of me was a bit un-nerving even though the breaker was off.
I just had the wonderful adventure of climbing into my condo's attic to replace the thermostat wire some squirrels had chewed through. I can wholeheartedly agree that setting up the fan and letting it force ventilate that space for an hour before heading up was worth it. ~85 degrees while I was up there rather than ~110. (Unfortunately can't install a permanent fan up there, darned HOA.)
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... (Unfortunately can't install a permanent fan up there, darned HOA.)
Got to be a way around that. There are power vents of all types, got to be one that wouldn't piss off the HOA ninnys.
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Got to be a way around that. There are power vents of all types, got to be one that wouldn't piss off the HOA ninnys.
Shared attic with an adjacent unit plus I've got some real busy bodies around here with regards to exterior appearances, so who knows.
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Shared attic with an adjacent unit plus I've got some real busy bodies around here with regards to exterior appearances, so who knows.
I thought fire codes required attics in duplexes, condos, and townhouses be separated by a fire-resistant barrier? I remember there was a condo fire a couple of years ago which spread through the attic and much was made of the attic "not being up to code."
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I'm unsure on the fire codes concerning that. Denver Metro area of Colorado and I'd guestimate the age of this structure to be around 20 years or so.
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i want to install a traditional looking cupola that contains a fan and maybe a light pipe
http://www.weathervanesofmaine.com/default.asp?mn=1.10.28.17188&sfield=content.id&search=5771
http://greenexpressdirect.com/details.tpl?eqskudatarq=20301001&gclid=CPjFyp-W4KkCFULc4AodkRUrWw
the solar powered attic fans might be useful:
http://greenexpressdirect.com/list.tpl?cart=13095243841860250&MasterCategory=Energy&Category=Solar%20Attic%20Fan&command=ShowCart&db=cms/Gpart.db&eqPTgpdatarq=1
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When I moved back to Texas I used the insulation knowledge I gained living in the UP of MI. I installed two layers of fiberglass on top of the blown in insulation with foil inbetween and on top of the insulation. I also installed 4 wind turbines. My electric bill went from 400 bucks a month to 100 bucks a month. When I told my neighbors what I did they had a puzzled look and said it doesn't get that cold here for all that insulation. I explained why I put ice in my ice chest to cool my beer. The lightbulb went off, duh. Everyone had a hard time understanding what insulation does, it keeps the heat in or the cold in, depending on the time of year. Now, 20 years later, there are all kinds of advertisements selling insulation for homes..........chris3
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Oh, I'll mention the 100+deg days started over ~month ago.
the solar powered attic fans might be useful:
http://greenexpressdirect.com/list.tpl?cart=13095243841860250&MasterCategory=Energy&Category=Solar%20Attic%20Fan&command=ShowCart&db=cms/Gpart.db&eqPTgpdatarq=1
The best quality gable end fan, with a lifetime or 10 year warranty, the lowest noise, & electrical usage costs ~$105. Most solar equivalents run ~$300. A dude in San Diego did the math and figured his attic fan cost him $4/month. Unless you are off-grid, solar powered fans do not make any sort of sense.
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I bought one of these http://insulmation.stores.yahoo.net/geatfa.html (http://insulmation.stores.yahoo.net/geatfa.html) four years ago. Made my own fan box and installed it behind one of these http://www.mcmaster.com/#20015k62/=czkp30 (http://www.mcmaster.com/#20015k62/=czkp30).
Then installed the required amount of passive venting at the opposite end of the attic for the intake. The fan operates off of a thermostat in the attic, but I also wired a switch in parallel in the house so I can turn it on (and leave it on even when the temp drops below the attic set point to keep cooling the attic) whenever I want.
Works *great*. Made a huge difference in the temperature upstairs where all the bedrooms are located. No longer do I need to run the air conditioner during the night when sleeping (which I *hated* because it would wake me up).
Sawdust
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Everyone had a hard time understanding what insulation does, it keeps the heat in or the cold in, depending on the time of year.
Technically incorrect, but first the groaner of a joke:
On a particularly dull day of a dull week, a roving TV reporter went out on the street looking for some comments to spice up the evening news. The question was "What do you think is the most important discovery of the 20th century?" He got all sorts of predictable, and therefore uninteresting, responses such as open heart surgery, artificial hearts, bionic limbs, space travel, atomic power, yada yada. Finally he came across an elderly wino and he decided for yuks to ask this guy. So he did. The wino's answer was, "The Thermos bottle."
Rep: The Thermos bottle? Sir, other people are talking about space travel, atomic power, bionic limbs, and you think the Thermos bottle is more wonderful than things like that? Why?
Wino: Because it's what the Thermos bottle does. It keeps things warm in the winter, and cool in the summer.
Rep: Yes? What's so great about that?
Wino: Think about it, son. It keeps things warm in the winter, and cool in the summer. HOW DOES IT KNOW?
Okay, back to this morning's exercise in thermodynamic pedantry. You wrote, "what insulation does, it keeps the heat in or the cold in, depending on the time of year."
This is incorrect. In any situation involving heat flow or transfer, it only goes one way. The direction of transfer is always from the warm side to the cold side. Insulation impedes heat transfer, which simply means it slows down the rate of transfer. But it does not alter the direction. In Winter, heat tries to flow out, and insulation reduces the rate of heat loss. In Summer, heat tries to get in, and insulation reduces the rate of heat gain. For Summer, it's incorrect to say insulation keeps cold in. Actually, it keeps heat out.
It's like light. Does the closet door keep light out of the closet, or does it keep dark in the closet?
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A lot of folks don't realize that most of the heat migration in a home happens right over their heads, as much as 60-70% in older homes. People will spend thousands on new doors and windows, but nothing on insulation. $1000 of added insulation will pay for itself in just a year or two. Payback on $5000 of doors and windows? 10-12 years, minimum.
Even adding simple soffet and ridge vents to get a little airflow through the attic can save thousands. Here in sun country, temps in an unvented attic can easily exceed 150 deg F on a sunny 110 deg day. Passively venting the attic can reduce heat buildup by at least 70-80%. Forced ventilation, 85-90%.
Brad
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Yep. I'm sad we didn't do a full ridgeline vent when we did our roof. But we did make sure we have lots of cap-type vents up at our roof ridge. But I need to go replace our gable vent fan. We've got some blown in cellulose insulation, but I also plan on changing that out once I have a chance to rewire the house. Plan on upgrading the service from 100 amp to 200 amp at a minimum. Granted, we've got mostly gas appliances except for our oven. So a 100 amp service is... sufficient. But unfortunately they joined a *lot* of circuits together that just don't make sense. Or more accurately, a lot of the circuit designs don't make sense. Like half the outlets in one room being tied together with outlets in another room on the other side of the house. Plus not all the grounding was done correctly.... Such as in our office...
*sigh*
Back on topic. We also have to have exterior wall insulation installed, as it was never done when the house was built back in 1969....
And of course, the Mrs. wants some insulation in the interior walls around the bathrooms for some acoustical insulation....
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Shared attic with an adjacent unit plus I've got some real busy bodies around here with regards to exterior appearances, so who knows.
Nuke them from orbit. I was prez of a condo association for a while. You'll never catch me doing THAT again. [barf]
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Yep. I'm sad we didn't do a full ridgeline vent when we did our roof. But we did make sure we have lots of cap-type vents up at our roof ridge. But I need to go replace our gable vent fan. We've got some blown in cellulose insulation, but I also plan on changing that out once I have a chance to rewire the house. Plan on upgrading the service from 100 amp to 200 amp at a minimum. Granted, we've got mostly gas appliances except for our oven. So a 100 amp service is... sufficient. But unfortunately they joined a *lot* of circuits together that just don't make sense. Or more accurately, a lot of the circuit designs don't make sense. Like half the outlets in one room being tied together with outlets in another room on the other side of the house. Plus not all the grounding was done correctly.... Such as in our office...
*sigh*
Back on topic. We also have to have exterior wall insulation installed, as it was never done when the house was built back in 1969....
And of course, the Mrs. wants some insulation in the interior walls around the bathrooms for some acoustical insulation....
I had ridgeline vents installed at my last roofing job. I don't think they are as efficient as the turbines I had. Women are like that. They don't like it when they fart and you laugh.....chris3
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And of course, the Mrs. wants some insulation in the interior walls around the bathrooms for some acoustical insulation....
To be useful, that needs a different kind of insulation. Normal fiberglass batts reduce sound transmission a little, but not much. What stops sound is mass. Acoustic batts are very dense mineral fiber, not fiberglass, and are MUCH more effective.
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Yep. We're looking at the company that is gonna do our insulation in the exterior walls to do the acoustic blown in insulation in those walls. :)