Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: MillCreek on July 05, 2011, 03:48:26 PM
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This just in: Casey Anthony acquitted of murdering her daughter. The only conviction was for giving false information to a police officer.
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Who?
This is all over drudge and fox, but I never heard of it before today.
Why do we (or the nooz, at least) ritually pick one particular court case to follow every year or so? What's so unique about this murder trial that makes it any different than any other?
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Partly it is sensationalism on the part of the bloody journos.
Partly it's because a mother murdering her 3 y/o is enough of an outrage that people take notice and care.
She sounded pretty obviously guilty, based on what I've seen. Sad she seems to be pulling an OJ. G-D trailer trash w####, one can only hope she OD's on meth before she has time to procreate then murder her offspring again.
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Surprised me!
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From what little I've seen, the prosecution didn't meet the "Beyond a reasonable doubt" standard. Maybe she did it, maybe not, but you have to prove it.
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yup
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From what little I've seen, the prosecution didn't meet the "Beyond a reasonable doubt" standard. Maybe she did it, maybe not, but you have to prove it.
From a common sense standard, rather than an American legal standard, she's obviously up to her eyeballs in her daughter's death and disappearance, but the vague facts of the case were in her favor, and prosecutorial incompetence broke her way.
My gut feeling is that the daughter died through neglect/abuse/gross-indifference (drugging her to allow the mother to go out on dates etc.) and then due to the mother's squirrely nature and as a known habitual liar, she needlessly over-complicated the cover story of a disappearance, to the point it actually came full-circle back into her favor by creating too much reasonable doubt.
Just through all the crazy that came out in the trial, I could see Casey Anthony actually trying to stage her daughter's non-intentionally (however negligently it may have been) dead body as a foul-play murder with the duct-tape by over-thinking all the lies. I'm sure many have seen the type, Narcissistic personality disorder, that continually manifests itself as constant calculation an scheming to the point of sociopathy as to what they want, what their status in life is vis-a-vi their family and peer groups etc.
She's one of those "goes free to protect the innocent" cases unfortunately.
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Even though I've tried to avoid it, practically every time I tuned to Fox this story was running . . . so I couldn't help but hear a few things before I changed the channel. (Fox was becoming the "All Casey, All The Time" channel.)
Did she do it? I don't know . . . and clearly the jury didn't, either. Showing that someone is a worthless lowlife isn't the same as proving - proving! - she killed her kid. My gut feel is that she's guilty . . . but I wasn't in the court and can't say beyond a reasonable doubt that she in fact killed her kid.
As for the "lying to a cop" conviction - remember Martha Stewart, anyone? - it says, once again, to keep your mouth SHUT when being questioned. (I have a problem with making it a crime to lie when you're NOT under oath . . . when the person you're talking to is free to lie to YOU.)
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Quite honestly the woman was tried and convicted by the "expert" talking heads the media(s) conjured up. I happened to be in Orlando when the body was discovered, you think Fox was all Casey all the time? You should have seen the local cobverage in Orlando while it was unfolding. I can't see her doing it intentionally. Accidentally out of stupidity, maybe. But again, where's the proof?
The prosecutors made reference to some 100+ other child murder cases on the docket in FL. My thought too was, "What makes this trial so special?"
Same with Gabby and all that coverage. Meanwhile here in CT a teenager died of a similar head wound. No major coverage on that one, 10 seconds at the most announcing his death. I know I'm preaching to the choir but the media in this country just plain sucks ass.
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There's no way she could have kept silent. You watch her talking for more thin five minutes and you can see she has the kind of personality where she HAS to say SOMETHING. Keeping silent is just not an option. Although I agree, had she reported her daughter missing right away, or within a believable time-frame of 1-2 days or whatever, then clammed up on the 5th amendment/Miranda grounds saying "I think the cops are trying to railroad me", she'd have 50% of America believing her. Like the Jon Benet Ramsey case, or Elizabeth Smart where the family was under suspicion for a long time.
It's just how she passive-aggressively controls the world and her environment. I suspect she is the sort who lies constantly even about innocuous things, just to feel in control of people and events around her. I don't think a defense attorney with a cattle prod could have shut her up.
I don't think there's anyone who believes she's not responsible for her daughter's death somehow. She's merely getting off on double-jeopardy and that the DA's were overconfident and outraged enough to go for murder, and not for some sort of lesser manslaughter type of charge.
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From what little I've seen, the prosecution didn't meet the "Beyond a reasonable doubt" standard. Maybe she did it, maybe not, but you have to prove it.
I haven't kept up with the story much; but, from what little I've heard, the prosecution tried to make a lot of hay with not a lot of evidence...most of it circumstantial. There was significantly less evidence than what Texas had when they went after Darlie Routier ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darlie_Routier (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darlie_Routier) ).
I'm more interested in what the judge will do with the four "lying to the LEO" counts....knowing the political/popular pressure involved, she may end up doing more time for that than for the actual murder....
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Speculation is she will walk on time served Thursday. But, of course, it's talking expert heads doing the speculating. Talk about trailer trash though, Nancy Grace had some bimbo outside the bar where the defense people were celebrating with disgruntled people crowding around outside and asked what looked like another piece of trash her opinion which was, "I had a chance to be on the jury but I squirmed out of it. Now I'm sorry because I would have voted for conviction and at least hung the jury." [barf]
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There's no way she could have kept silent. You watch her talking for more thin five minutes and you can see she has the kind of personality where she HAS to say SOMETHING. Keeping silent is just not an option. Although I agree, had she reported her daughter missing right away, or within a believable time-frame of 1-2 days or whatever, then clammed up on the 5th amendment/Miranda grounds saying "I think the cops are trying to railroad me", she'd have 50% of America believing her. Like the Jon Benet Ramsey case, or Elizabeth Smart where the family was under suspicion for a long time.
It's just how she passive-aggressively controls the world and her environment. I suspect she is the sort who lies constantly even about innocuous things, just to feel in control of people and events around her. I don't think a defense attorney with a cattle prod could have shut her up.
I don't think there's anyone who believes she's not responsible for her daughter's death somehow. She's merely getting off on double-jeopardy and that the DA's were overconfident and outraged enough to go for murder, and not for some sort of lesser manslaughter type of charge.
Precisely why she didn't take the stand in her own defense.
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Precisely why she didn't take the stand in her own defense.
Yes, although the common wisdom that the accused never should take the stand kind of weakens this particular case of it a bit.
The main thing I agree with is about the disproportionate coverage this case has gotten. Just one more reason I loathe the MSM. Kids die from abuse and neglect every day, and a few actual cases of random stranger rape/kidnappings too. And the only common thread about which get covered is how photogenic the victims and the abuser are.
IMO, disproportionately reporting on one case or instance of "the truth" warps peoples minds as much as outright lies do.
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Good point aj.
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Speculation is she will walk on time served Thursday. But, of course, it's talking expert heads doing the speculating. Talk about trailer trash though, Nancy Grace had some bimbo outside the bar where the defense people were celebrating with disgruntled people crowding around outside and asked what looked like another piece of trash her opinion which was, "I had a chance to be on the jury but I squirmed out of it. Now I'm sorry because I would have voted for conviction and at least hung the jury." [barf]
Poor Nancy Grace (speaking of trash!) ... she has made Casey Anthony into a freakin' career, and now she's been deprived of her opportunity to gloat.
There's a word for people like her, but I don't think I'm supposed to use it on this site. (Hint: the word is not "journalist.")
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Poor Nancy Grace (speaking of trash!) ... she has made Casey Anthony into a freakin' career, and now she's been deprived of her opportunity to gloat.
There's a word for people like her, but I don't think I'm supposed to use it on this site. (Hint: the word is not "journalist.")
If memory serves, she caused one woman to commit suicide due to false allegations.
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Poor Nancy Grace (speaking of trash!) ... she has made Casey Anthony into a freakin' career, and now she's been deprived of her opportunity to gloat.
There's a word for people like her, but I don't think I'm supposed to use it on this site. (Hint: the word is not "journalist.")
harridan a bad word here?
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Thanks to the media, that piece of filth will be writing a book in a year or two and making millions.
:facepalm:
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Thanks to the media, that piece of filth will be writing a book in a year or two and making millions.
:facepalm:
Not to mention any deals Casey Anthony gets too...
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A darn shame. A kid disappears, momma parties like crazy and does not report her missing for a month, kid found dead and buried with duct tape across her mouth. If someone doesn't spend at least 30 years in prison, we have a major problem....which apparently we do. I hope she lives a miserable life which ends badly for her.
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I have a hard time believing the state screwed up so thoroughly. Usually the state does a better job of matching charges to evidence. It is almost like the state deemed her guilty and decided to shoot the moon on charges with little regard to evidence in hand. The only charge she was convicted on was a throwaway. I guess the jury felt sorry for the state. Someone will have to explain this fiasco.
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harridan a bad word here?
Yeah....far too wishy-washy a word to describe her....feel free to try again.....
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I hope she lives a miserable life which ends badly for her.
Chances are, she's well on her way.
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I have a hard time believing the state screwed up so thoroughly. Usually the state does a better job of matching charges to evidence. It is almost like the state deemed her guilty and decided to shoot the moon on charges with little regard to evidence in hand. The only charge she was convicted on was a throwaway. I guess the jury felt sorry for the state. Someone will have to explain this fiasco.
Honestly, if I were on the jury and had already decided "not guilty" on the big charge, I would be inclined to vote not guilty on charges like that also. I really hate the "well, we got her on something" charges.
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its interesting. someone on another forum pointed out that scott peterson is on death row with less evidence
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its interesting. someone on another forum pointed out that scott peterson is on death row with less evidence
He's a dude. A dude needs somebody like Johnny Cochran to get him off. Attractive (white) women don't need so much. No idea about attractive women of other colors.
I have a hard time believing the state screwed up so thoroughly. Usually the state does a better job of matching charges to evidence. It is almost like the state deemed her guilty and decided to shoot the moon on charges with little regard to evidence in hand.
My guess is that the prosecutor loves the CSI shows, and decided to make forensic evidence the cornerstone of his argument. When a relatively smart defense attorney shows that this forensic evidence is untrustworthy, the jury feels betrayed and thinks the prosecutor is lying about the more solid evidence, too. Having an attractive woman as client just makes it even easier.
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My understanding (from trying hard not to watch the wall to wall coverage in Tampa)is that there was no more solid evidence. When the forensics were shown not to be 100%, that's all the state had. They didn't even have a solid cause of death to refute the swimming pool tale.
Life ain't CSI. If the state doesn't meet the burden of proof, then I'm glad we still presume innocence, even in cases like this one.
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its interesting. someone on another forum pointed out that scott peterson is on death row with less evidence
That would be incorrect - The evidence against Scott Peterson would have had to be a video tape to be any stronger.
Anthony's defense was a realistic alternative. The monkey business about finding the body only helped. It's quite possible (even reasonably believable) that she did not intentionally murder the girl.
Scott Petersons case left no alternative conclusion.
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Ah America. GMA is running a whole big thing on this right now with Nancy Grace calling the jury "kooky" and talks about "This is a bad verdict". The most telling of all about the quality of people that made this the circus that it is? At the swamp were cayley was found theres a memorial with flowers, balloons etc. Right smack dab in the middle, big sign, red letters, "Your safe in the arms of Jesus now"
Didn't know Cayley had a safe... ;/
[barf]
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My gut feeling. She used chloroform to put the kid to sleep so she could go out and she accidentally killed her with it instead. The tape was either for keeping fluids in or keeping insects out. I think if the prosecutors had pursued that avenue instead of the intentional killing scenario they might have gotten a little further. Just my $0.02 of course.
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My opinions, watching as little as possible, from the perspective of someone who prosecuted for 12 years (2 more than Nancy Grace)...
1. evidence was pretty good that the child was the victim of a wrongful death. Murder, neglect, etc., not clear, but clearly a wrongful death.
2. Casey Anthony was a party girl who refused to let smoething as trivial as the death of her daughter spoil her good time.
3. Detectives caught Anthony in a web of lies. As I've learned, to many cops, someone who lies about a crime is guilty of the crime, whether there is actual evidence to prove it or not.
4. the prosecution jumped the gun in filing the bog charges without evidenec to tie Anthony directoly to the death, or more correctly, the cause of death.
5. Nancy Grace was right in that the law does not require that the State prove motive, but I've never seen a jury convict without some evidence presented on that issue.
6. defense counsel made the best argument you could, that Anthony is a terrible human being, but that does not prove she is guilty of the murder (which may or may not actually be a murder).
7. Nancy Grace and some of the other talking heads on television are the biggest problem with the criminal justice system at this time. proclaiming guilt before a trial starts, lambasting the jury for doing what they were suppposed to do and not simply signing off on the prosecutor's charges...I'm about as pro-cop/pro-prosecution as you get around here, and she makes me want to shoot my television.
As an aside, I truly believe that, in the end, there is final justice. Someday, in some way, Casey Anthony will have to answer for her role in all of this. We may not be able to watch it happen on CNN, but I believe it will happen.
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7. Nancy Grace...I'm about as pro-cop/pro-prosecution as you get around here, and she makes me want to shoot my television.
+eleventy
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Thanks Chris, all excellent points.
I liked how NG went on about Casey getting money for a book deal etc and how she'll cash in on the whole thing. Anyone bother to ask NG how much money the situation has put into HER pocket? How much money do you get for being a guest talking head on GMA? Hmmm? ;/
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Looked this up just now. Notice the statement I highlighted right at the bottom. Like I said, I think she, not being the sharpest knife in the drawer, just plain old screwed up and killed the kid instead of putting her to sleep:
http://howtomakechloroform.com/
It is possible for you to make chloroform at home. But you need to remember that using this chemical should be limited to as a solvent and nothing else.
•To learn how to make chloroform, you will need the following materials: acetone, water, pitcher, ice, and shock powder. The mixture of shock powder and acetone creates a mix that is potent and at the same time dangerous. Shock powder is Calcium Hypochlorite and is used for swimming pools. You can purchase this in hardware or pool supply stores.
•To make the chloroform, you will need to put the water first into the pitcher. As soon as you have poured the water, put the shock powder, and use a wooden stick to help dissolve the powder. As soon as you are done, you will need to put some ice in the pitcher. And then slowly pour the acetone in. Slowly stir the acetone while pouring the acetone into the pitcher. You need to do this slowly since there will be a chemical reaction when the water starts to change in its temperature. Usually 135 degrees will keep the chloroform working.
•As soon as you are done stirring, you will notice that there are 3 layers in the pitcher. The acetone, water, and the chloroform. When distilling the chloroform, you need to be careful, so you will need a funnel to help separate the layers. Always wear some protective clothing when handling the chemicals. Wear a mask as well since chloroform has intoxicating effects. Now that you have transferred the chemical in its bottle, seal the bottle well, and store it in a place out of children's reach. You will have to put a label outside the bottle just in case you forget its contents. Always wipe the spills with gloves. Use a dispersing agent to make sure the affected area is now okay. If you don't have any dispersing agent, you will need to shovel some sand on the affected area to prevent the gas from diffusing into the room.
•If someone swallows chloroform, do not let the person take anything except for milk. Loosen the person's clothing and bring this person as soon as possible to the doctor to get some treatment. Take note of the person's contaminated clothing, and put it immediately in the washer to prevent further contamination. This is very potent, even small amounts of this chemical could lead to coma and even death.
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It is times like these that I am glad I can't watch cable or network news.
That lack of broadcast or cable teevee about caused my mom fits the last time she visited. She is the kindof person who turns it on when she comes home from work and turns it off when she goes to bed.
She doesn't sit and watch, but works around the house while the idiot box fills the house with sound and images. (A state of affairs that is akin to HELL IMO.)
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The woman was not on trial on charges of being a bad mother. She would no doubt be convicted.
She was not on trial on charges being an irresponsible, and highly creepy person. There is no juror who would have voted to acquit if such charges existed.
But the prosecution had to prove specific crimes. They had failed to do so, and therefore this person(oid) was acquitted.
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True, unfortunately the trailer trash side of the tracks people here in the US are unable to fathom this.
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Ah America. GMA is running a whole big thing on this right now with Nancy Grace calling the jury "kooky" and talks about "This is a bad verdict".
I guess there's a reason Nancy Grace is a television celebrity now rather than a prosecutor. You'd think a former prosecutor would (a) have more respect for the legal/jury system; and (b) be more objective in acknowledging that the prosecution did a really poor job.
The most telling of all about the quality of people that made this the circus that it is? At the swamp were cayley was found theres a memorial with flowers, balloons etc. Right smack dab in the middle, big sign, red letters, "Your safe in the arms of Jesus now"
Didn't know Cayley had a safe...
Dyslexics-R-Us
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As an aside, I truly believe that, in the end, there is final justice. Someday, in some way, Casey Anthony will have to answer for her role in all of this. We may not be able to watch it happen on CNN, but I believe it will happen.
Well said, Chris. I agree completely. We will probably never know what really happened, and it doesn't matter at this point. Whatever her role and whatever her degree of culpability, Casey Anthony will eventually be judged, and that's when justice will prevail.
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IMO, and strictly IMO, Casey Anthony was directly involved in her daughter's death.
Both sides failed to indicate (much less prove) beyond a reasonable doubt how Caylee died. There just wasn't enough evidence, and under the circumstances, I think the jury acted correctly.
If Belvin has any sense, he will sentence her to the max for her convictions. Also, I wouldn't want to give odds on how long she will last in a women's prison.
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IMO, and strictly IMO, Casey Anthony was directly involved in her daughter's death.
Both sides failed to indicate (much less prove) beyond a reasonable doubt how Caylee died. There just wasn't enough evidence, and under the circumstances, I think the jury acted correctly.
If Belvin has any sense, he will sentence her to the max for her convictions. Also, I wouldn't want to give odds on how long she will last in a women's prison.
And that is why he will release her with time served and prison over crowding.
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With this case over, I'm eagerly awaiting the next wall-to-wall-coverage court case....the one where Casey Anthony sues the heck out of Nancy Grace for slander (& maybe libel, if Grace put anything in print or blog)..... [popcorn]
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With this case over, I'm eagerly awaiting the next wall-to-wall-coverage court case....the one where Casey Anthony sues the heck out of Nancy Grace for slander (& maybe libel, if Grace put anything in print or blog)..... [popcorn]
That's the proverbial "Catching Hitler and Stalin fighting in an alley and not knowing who to root for"-scenario if I've ever seen one.
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That's the proverbial "Catching Hitler and Stalin fighting in an alley and not knowing who to root for"-scenario if I've ever seen one.
Don't root for anyone. Sell tickets. :P
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I guess there's a reason Nancy Grace is a television celebrity now rather than a prosecutor. You'd think a former prosecutor would (a) have more respect for the legal/jury system; and (b) be more objective in acknowledging that the prosecution did a really poor job.
+1
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I didn't catch any of the trial, and a minimal amount of the talking heads going on about anything important in the trial. but from the little I know and have gathered reading about the case, I think where the prosecution dropped the ball was bringing on the murder charges when they couldn't prove there was a murder. Sounds like the trial went about as well as they could have hoped, but the jury wasn't swayed by the emotion so much as to overlook the absence of evidence regarding the murder. More to the point, it looks like there was no evidence directly linking Anthony to the death. Somewhere along the line, a prosecutor must have thrown this issue up for discussion, and someone higher up made a bad choice to proceed without that evidence.,,
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I didn't catch any of the trial, and a minimal amount of the talking heads going on about anything important in the trial. but from the little I know and have gathered reading about the case, I think where the prosecution dropped the ball was bringing on the murder charges when they couldn't prove there was a murder. Sounds like the trial went about as well as they could have hoped, but the jury wasn't swayed by the emotion so much as to overlook the absence of evidence regarding the murder. More to the point, it looks like there was no evidence directly linking Anthony to the death. Somewhere along the line, a prosecutor must have thrown this issue up for discussion, and someone higher up made a bad choice to proceed without that evidence.,,
I hate this case. I'm glad the jury did their job properly...but I'm very angry that the prosecution couldn't get the ball together.
It's obvious Anthony did the deed. Here's hoping she has a rendevous with judgement earlier than she expects. The woman has no regret, she will not be "living with it" as some say.
Unfortunately, the law of scumbag survival dictates she will live and party for a long time more...
Because we all know she did it, but the jury did their job (but will be remembered as the ones that let the baby killer go)
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That's the proverbial "Catching Hitler and Stalin fighting in an alley and not knowing who to root for"-scenario if I've ever seen one.
Drop napalm on the alley :laugh:.
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Drop napalm on the alley :laugh:.
When I take power you're going to be my Minister on Internal Relations.
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With this case over, I'm eagerly awaiting the next wall-to-wall-coverage court case....the one where Casey Anthony sues the heck out of Nancy Grace for slander (& maybe libel, if Grace put anything in print or blog)..... [popcorn]
http://ozarksfirst.com/fulltext?nxd_id=483217 (http://ozarksfirst.com/fulltext?nxd_id=483217)
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Geeez... :lol:
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When I take power you're going to be my Minister on Internal Relations.
=D
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Because we all know she did it, but the jury did their job (but will be remembered as the ones that let the baby killer go)
But ... what "it" did she do?
The first count was first degree murder, and the prosecution couldn't even show that there had been a murder.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.runemasterstudios.com%2Fgraemlins%2Fimages%2Fbanghead.gif&hash=20190f4bfe88f02c3b8532b765dac5eff75fb5dd)
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Drop napalm on the alley :laugh:.
I might have to wait a while for Nancy Grace to remove her helmet... just to be sure.
Oh, someone just told me that's her hair. :-X
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Anyone questioning the procecutors yet as to why murder one when the evidence just wasn't there? I suspect someone in the DA 's office is about to go out on their own and was looking for a fat book contract or consultancy contract on future media circus . . . . .er, murder cases. And don't call me cynical. Call the prosecutor corrupt.
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Even though I've tried to avoid it, practically every time I tuned to Fox this story was running . . . so I couldn't help but hear a few things before I changed the channel. (Fox was becoming the "All Casey, All The Time" channel.)
Did she do it? I don't know . . . and clearly the jury didn't, either. Showing that someone is a worthless lowlife isn't the same as proving - proving! - she killed her kid. My gut feel is that she's guilty . . . but I wasn't in the court and can't say beyond a reasonable doubt that she in fact killed her kid.
As for the "lying to a cop" conviction - remember Martha Stewart, anyone? - it says, once again, to keep your mouth SHUT when being questioned. (I have a problem with making it a crime to lie when you're NOT under oath . . . when the person you're talking to is free to lie to YOU.)
I find myself in complete agreement with you.
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Looked this up just now. Notice the statement I highlighted right at the bottom. Like I said, I think she, not being the sharpest knife in the drawer, just plain old screwed up and killed the kid instead of putting her to sleep:
http://howtomakechloroform.com/
It is possible for you to make chloroform at home. But you need to remember that using this chemical should be limited to as a solvent and nothing else.
•To learn how to make chloroform, you will need the following materials: acetone, water, pitcher, ice, and shock powder. The mixture of shock powder and acetone creates a mix that is potent and at the same time dangerous. Shock powder is Calcium Hypochlorite and is used for swimming pools. You can purchase this in hardware or pool supply stores.
•To make the chloroform, you will need to put the water first into the pitcher. As soon as you have poured the water, put the shock powder, and use a wooden stick to help dissolve the powder. As soon as you are done, you will need to put some ice in the pitcher. And then slowly pour the acetone in. Slowly stir the acetone while pouring the acetone into the pitcher. You need to do this slowly since there will be a chemical reaction when the water starts to change in its temperature. Usually 135 degrees will keep the chloroform working.
•As soon as you are done stirring, you will notice that there are 3 layers in the pitcher. The acetone, water, and the chloroform. When distilling the chloroform, you need to be careful, so you will need a funnel to help separate the layers. Always wear some protective clothing when handling the chemicals. Wear a mask as well since chloroform has intoxicating effects. Now that you have transferred the chemical in its bottle, seal the bottle well, and store it in a place out of children's reach. You will have to put a label outside the bottle just in case you forget its contents. Always wipe the spills with gloves. Use a dispersing agent to make sure the affected area is now okay. If you don't have any dispersing agent, you will need to shovel some sand on the affected area to prevent the gas from diffusing into the room.
•If someone swallows chloroform, do not let the person take anything except for milk. Loosen the person's clothing and bring this person as soon as possible to the doctor to get some treatment. Take note of the person's contaminated clothing, and put it immediately in the washer to prevent further contamination. This is very potent, even small amounts of this chemical could lead to coma and even death.
some years back i "dated" a girl with a son about 3. whenever i came over he was sleepy and went to bed left us alone. sometime along i commented on it and she said "i give him a double dose of kiddie tylenol" i terminated our association and told her sister who took custody of the kid
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Anyone questioning the procecutors yet as to why murder one when the evidence just wasn't there? I suspect someone in the DA 's office is about to go out on their own and was looking for a fat book contract or consultancy contract on future media circus . . . . .er, murder cases. And don't call me cynical. Call the prosecutor corrupt.
One my coworkers who has been following the case mentioned that this prosecutor is eligible for retirement, and that there is some speculation that he wanted to go out with a bang.
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Let's say for a moment that there was a big meeting at the prosecutor's office. Cops, CSIs, prosecutors, lab types, etc. Everyone sat around and said "this is the best we've got. It's never going to get any better." I've been in those kinds of meetings. At that point, everyone looks to the man (or woman) with his name on the front door, and he makes the call. It's either go with what you've got, or wait and hope for better evidence. In the long run, go with what you've got keeps a prosecutor elected.
I'm thinking that may have happened here. And, listening to some of the jurors starting to talk, the prosecutors got it half done. They won the emotional side. It's too bad that they didn't have the intellectual side as well.
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Let's say for a moment that there was a big meeting at the prosecutor's office. Cops, CSIs, prosecutors, lab types, etc. Everyone sat around and said "this is the best we've got. It's never going to get any better." I've been in those kinds of meetings. At that point, everyone looks to the man (or woman) with his name on the front door, and he makes the call. It's either go with what you've got, or wait and hope for better evidence.
But "go with what you've got" has to include recognizing what you've got ... and what you DON'T got.
In this case, they had a dead kid. That she was dead was obvious. Beyond that? Nada ... zip ... zilch ... zero. Without anything to show how she died, they couldn't really even show that the death was a homicide, as opposed to an accident or a health-related incident. An experienced, career prosecutor on the verge of retirement SHOULD have learned that the essence of the American system is that the government must prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt.
How do you prove ... beyond a reasonable doubt ... that Casey Anthony murdered her child, when you can't even prove there was a murder? In fact, you can't even prove there was a homicide (which, BTW, is NOT the same thing as "murder").
I spend a lot of time ranting against what I call prosecutorial overreach. Usually, it takes the form of piling on absurd charges with malicious intent, to either break the defendant financially (and perhaps psychologically) or in the hope that out of the whole list, something will surely stick. It sucks, and it's wrong. People who do wrong should be arrested, tried, and convicted. But along with that goes the supposition that a person gets charged with what he or she might actually have done, not a laundry list of fantasy charges that only a contortionist could see relating to the actual facts of the incident.
This was such a case. Here, though, I don't think it was done out of malicious intent. I think it was done out of stupidity. They were all convinced that Casey Anthony had killed her child, so they forged ahead on the assumption that they had to try her for that using whatever evidence they could scrape up. I seriously doubt the arcane notion of charging her based on what they thought they might be able to prove ever occurred to them.
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That would be incorrect - The evidence against Scott Peterson would have had to be a video tape to be any stronger.
Anthony's defense was a realistic alternative. The monkey business about finding the body only helped. It's quite possible (even reasonably believable) that she did not intentionally murder the girl.
Scott Petersons case left no alternative conclusion.
er nope
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/29/48hours/main652356.shtml
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er nope
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/29/48hours/main652356.shtml
The tab in IE shortened the name of that page to "Mock Jury Weighs Peters".
I giggled. =D
DD
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er nope
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/29/48hours/main652356.shtml
Please tell me you're not relying on a tv mock jury for real life conclusions.
Peterson was damned by the deed - but convicted because his wife's body washed up exactly where he said he was on the day of her disappearance. Telling his girlfriend that his wife died the month before she did was certainly no help.
He gOt the penalty he deserved, and got it through the right process.
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With regard to Casey Anthony and the verdict, I remain of the opinion that there is a Higher Power and that some day Casey Anthony will be judged again. The jury did the best they could and should not (IMHO) be raked over the coals for doing their job.
Which brings us to HLN's Nancy Grace, who despite being a former prosecuting attorney HAS raked the jury over the coals, and in fact carries on as if the trial hasn't ended and she can go on referring to Casey Anthony as a murderess. I had never heard on Nancy Grace -- I don't watch television, but various Internet links brought me to video clips of some of her pronouncements on this case.
So I just took a minute to Google her. Surprise, surprise! CNN/HLN's "expert" legal commentator/host has been sanctioned by the courts, not once but TWICE in her career for unethical behavior as a prosecutor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nancy_Grace
Prosecutorial misconduct
The Supreme Court of Georgia has twice commented on Grace's conduct as a prosecutor. First, in a 1994 heroin drug trafficking case, Bell v. State, the Court declared a mistrial, saying that Grace had "exceeded the wide latitude of closing argument" by drawing comparisons to unrelated murder and rape cases.[8]
In 1997, the court was more severe, overturning the murder-arson conviction of businessman W. W. Carr in the death of his wife. While the court said its reversal was not due to these transgressions, since the case had turned primarily on circumstantial evidence, it nevertheless concluded "the conduct of the prosecuting attorney in this case demonstrated her disregard of the notions of due process and fairness, and was inexcusable."[9] Carr was freed in 2004 when The Georgia Supreme Court ruled unanimously that Fulton County had waited too long to retry him, thereby unfairly prejudicing his right to a fair trial[10].
Despite upholding the conviction she sought, a panel of the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals wrote in a 2005 opinion that Grace "played fast and loose" with her ethical duties and failed to "fulfill her responsibilities" as a prosecutor in the 1990 triple murder trial of Herbert Connell Stephens.[11] The court agreed that it was "difficult to conclude that Grace did not knowingly use ... [apparently false] testimony" from a detective that there were no other suspects, despite the existence of outstanding arrest warrants for other men.[11]
No wonder I didn't like her. She has boosted her ratings tremendously on the basis of her coverage of this trial. Just like her behavior in the courtroom, apparently, she doesn't let little things like facts and truth get in the way of the pursuit of her objective.
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Two catcth phrases come to mind. For Casey, "Stupid is as stupid does"
and Nancy grace, "*expletive deleted*bag is as *expletive deleted*bag does."
I rest y case... =D
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This case makes me very glad that I have quit watching TV news and have been relying purely on the internet for news for the past few years. I was also not aware of the case until a friend mentioned it at a party the Friday before the jury announced the verdict. I'm glad I didn't waste my time watching all the op-ed BS from the talking heads for however many months it has been a big story.
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I watch cable news but had managed to avoid the drama, I won a bet saying she would be found innocent, based on only watching the closing statement.
I wish it was finally over but I guess Casey sells a lot of ads ... I think she's telling the truth. Her families weirdness prevented them from doing the right thing.
She has to be warped, when my girlfriend died it took me about a year to get past the grief, going out dancing and partying so soon after the baby died is unimaginable to me.
Nancy Grace? what a low life, she was all hysterical once about a 14 yr old boy who's parents got him a hi point 9mm carbine and let him keep it in his room unloaded.
She said "what kind of parent allows her kid to keep a high powered assault weapon" in his room
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Nancy Grace? what a low life, she was all hysterical once about a 14 yr old boy who's parents got him a hi point 9mm carbine and let him keep it in his room unloaded.
She said "what kind of parent allows her kid to keep a high powered assault weapon" in his room
An American military veteran, perhaps?
Or, maybe just ... an American?
Ironically, before I looked her up on Google I e-mailed some friends in the deep south to ask if they agreed with my perception that Ms. Grace looks, dresses, talks and acts like trailer trash. Then I read her bio in Wikipedia and I learned that she basically IS trailer trash.
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And apparently there may have been prosecutorial misconduct in the case (http://news.yahoo.com/prosecutor-misconduct-casey-anthony-case-alleged-172213907.html)
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And apparently there may have been prosecutorial misconduct in the case (http://news.yahoo.com/prosecutor-misconduct-casey-anthony-case-alleged-172213907.html)
Tell me again why these jokers have sovereign immunity?
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because they write the laws. [tinfoil] [barf]
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I liked how NG went on about Casey getting money for a book deal etc and how she'll cash in on the whole thing. Anyone bother to ask NG how much money the situation has put into HER pocket? How much money do you get for being a guest talking head on GMA? Hmmm? ;/
In the spirit of the jury that rightly acquitted Casey Anthony, I have to acquit Nancy Grace of this charge. Unlike Anthony, Nancy Grace did not contribute to the tragic death that started all of this. Pretty large difference.
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what are the odds that without nancy harping, the pa would have still went for the death penalty?
yeah that's right, i just said. nancy grace, got casey anthony acquitted of the murder charges. =)
that might have been a joke, i can't tell. [tinfoil]
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And apparently there may have been prosecutorial misconduct in the case (http://news.yahoo.com/prosecutor-misconduct-casey-anthony-case-alleged-172213907.html)
Probably personal friends of Nancy Grace. Never let a little thing like the truth stand between you and a persecution prosecution.
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Nancy Grace did not contribute to the tragic death that started all of this. Pretty large difference.
Nancy Grace did not contribute the death, but she DID contribute to the aftermath. She milked the case for all the publicity she could wring out of it. She is supposed to be HLN's "expert" legal commentator, but her conduct throughout the trial and before was nothing other than gutter sniping, rabble rousing, and character assassination.
I think I posted awhile back that Ms. Grace was sanctioned twice for prosecutorial misconduct? I was wrong.
THREE times, not two.
I have to apologize for labeling Ms. Grace as trailer trash. In retrospect, that was very unfair to the trailer trash of the world.
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^^^What he said... Nancy and Geraldo have profited from this little girl's death. if that isn't blood money what is?
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^^^What he said... Nancy and Geraldo have profited from this little girl's death. if that isn't blood money what is?
I don't have TV news at home, but I suspect you're right. I'm just saying there's a massive difference between sensationalizing a tragedy and being a cause of the tragedy.
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I don't have TV news at home, but I suspect you're right. I'm just saying there's a massive difference between sensationalizing a tragedy and being a cause of the tragedy.
I think the term you are looking for is "Accessory After the Fact".
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Tell me again why these jokers have sovereign immunity?
Agreed....if you want to reform the "justice" system, let's start with more accountability for prosecutors & judges....
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And apparently there may have been prosecutorial misconduct in the case (http://news.yahoo.com/prosecutor-misconduct-casey-anthony-case-alleged-172213907.html)
I'm curious if John Bradley contacted the defense attorney directly when the prosecution failed to disclose the error? I think this might be a good basis for a law requiring any technicians/examiners/etc. that are in any way involved with the case to be required to send duplications of their work to both the defense and the prosecution, and not merely rely on the integrity *cough* of the prosecution to fully and diligently disclose all evidence, exculpatory or otherwise, to the defense.
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I don't have TV news at home, but I suspect you're right. I'm just saying there's a massive difference between sensationalizing a tragedy and being a cause of the tragedy.
Quite honestly, and I speak only for myself, I think capitalizing on it is worse. Yay!! A dead kid with a whodunnit involved!! Let's make some $$$$$!!!!! WOOOO HOOOOO!!!!
Effin vultures [barf]
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Quite honestly, and I speak only for myself, I think capitalizing on it is worse. Yay!! A dead kid with a whodunnit involved!! Let's make some $$$$$!!!!! WOOOO HOOOOO!!!!
And this contributes to the worst problem we have in our civilization:
People who seriously believe that the average person - or at least the average middle-class person, obviously academic elites are never included - is inches away at any time from abusing their child, raping their spouse, or shooting up a school.
Every time the media fly down to obssess with some rare, hen's teeth event, they support that illusion.
They literally gnaw on the very supports of Western civilization for profit.
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I believe it was Stonewall Jackson that prefered spies over journalists because at least the spy had an ideology he or she was supporting while the journalists do it as they have no problem exposing state secrets for money.