Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: TechMan on September 09, 2011, 08:20:24 PM
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http://www.rutgerslawreview.com/2011/full-audio-transcript/ (http://www.rutgerslawreview.com/2011/full-audio-transcript/)
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Wow. Left hand, meet right hand.
Our air force was caught unarmed and flat footed by commercial aircraft, with over a 20 min respose time to get armed birds up.
And our atc was indecisive. Very.
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[quote author=AZRedhawk44 link=topic=31357.msg620636#msg620636 date=1315634572
Our air force was caught unarmed and flat footed by commercial aircraft, with over a 20 min respose time to get armed birds up.
[/quote]
Consider that the primary concerns would be jettisoning live ordnance over the states, handling by ground crews, and complications involving ground emergencies and it should come as no surprise that the SOP is still for armed aircraft not to be sitting around in the continental US. Given that the live stuff was probably locked up on the far side of some airfield I call 20 min pretty damn good. Took my helo squadron about 2 hours just to figure out their mode 4 IFF, but we were moving people between Norfolk and the Pentagon by shortly after noon that day. Actually, 20 minutes would be pretty slick even on an aircraft carrier if the deck wasn't spotted or alerts sitting.
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It's easy to forget the way that hijacking was viewed pre-911. There was no threat of kamikaze-style attacks on ground targets before this. It was unprecedented. Pre-911, a hijacking meant some dude told the pilot to fly somewhere else instead of where you were going. You sent the swat team and hostage negotiators after they landed, you didn't send fighter jets to shoot it out of the sky. There was even a Seinfeld episode where Jerry's plane gets hijacked as a humorous end to a show where Jerry is having a "what else can go wrong today" kind of day.
If anything I applaud the speed at which TPTB recognized the threat for what it was, and responded with fighter jets with orders to shoot down uncooperative planes. I applaud the brave souls of Flight 93 who figured out what was up.
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Query: What do the different modes mean? I notice that they talk about mode 3 on the transcripts and French G you mention mode 4.
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Query: What do the different modes mean? I notice that they talk about mode 3 on the transcripts and French G you mention mode 4.
It's for aircraft identification
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identification_friend_or_foe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identification_friend_or_foe)
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It's for aircraft identification
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identification_friend_or_foe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identification_friend_or_foe)
Thank you.
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Yeah, wrong crypto for the reply and bad things follow, usually at a high velocity.
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http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2016162502_sept11pilot10.html
I had not previously heard of this story. The first F-16s up in the air in pursuit of Flight 93 had no missile or cannon load-out. They were prepared to take down the plane by ramming it mid-air. The CO was going for the cockpit and the wingman for the tail. Wow.
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http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2016162502_sept11pilot10.html
I had not previously heard of this story. The first F-16s up in the air in pursuit of Flight 93 had no missile or cannon load-out. They were prepared to take down the plane by ramming it mid-air. The CO was going for the cockpit and the wingman for the tail. Wow.
That's interesting. A friend of mine was manning the counter at a car wash that day, and was glued to the TV news. He says that he saw a man being interviewed at Shanksville, who reported that he had seen a missile hit Flight 93. Later, he saw the same man being interviewed, with Men In Black behind him, and a frightened look on his face, saying that it just fell out of the sky for no apparent reason.
It would not surprise or bother me if we actually had shot down the plane, but Penny's story is an interesting angle on it.
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Wow
That must be some powerful sedative you're on. I was thinking more like "Jesus Christ on a &#%*ing pogo stick!"
So you want me to ram a passenger jet and kill a few hundred people so that they don't crash into another building and kill a few thousand (more), and there's very little chance that I won't be answering to my maker for doing it in about ten minutes...
If I didn't go completely catatonic on the spot (and that's probably more likely than my ego wants me to admit), I'm absolutely certain that I wouldn't be reaching for the eject handle. If I were able to do it, I wouldn't want to be around for the aftermath.
The only thing that I'm more grateful for than them being there to do that is that nobody told me to.
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Not sure but one story I read about a unit on the ground was in the process of loading live missiles for training when they got the call to put F-16's in the air. They got launch orders about 2-3 minutes, I think, after Flight 93 went down. But we still at that time didn't know how many more were out there.
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http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2016162502_sept11pilot10.html
I had not previously heard of this story. The first F-16s up in the air in pursuit of Flight 93 had no missile or cannon load-out. They were prepared to take down the plane by ramming it mid-air. The CO was going for the cockpit and the wingman for the tail. Wow.
I'm getting a page error repeatedly and only headline and ads come up. Can someone paste it here? Thanks.
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That must be some powerful sedative you're on. I was thinking more like "Jesus Christ on a &#%*ing pogo stick!"
So you want me to ram a passenger jet and kill a few hundred people so that they don't crash into another building and kill a few thousand (more), and there's very little chance that I won't be answering to my maker for doing it in about ten minutes...
Aerial ramming is something that many modern pilots still train for - even in jet aircraft. AFAIK the last recorded air ram by a fighter aircraft was seen in 1981, with a Soviet Su-15 fighter plane ramming a Canadair CL-44. Pilot ejected and later expressed regrets he didn't land the SU-15 instead, as it was apparently still sort of air worthy. CL-44 was lost with all hands on board.
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I'm getting a page error repeatedly and only headline and ads come up. Can someone paste it here? Thanks.
MrsSmith against the rules, but I have made a pdf and will shoot it to you if you pm me an email address.
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Got it. Thanks Adively.
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You're welcome.