Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Monkeyleg on October 01, 2011, 12:30:21 AM
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I've been trying to figure out what the statuette knife in the movie "Wait Until Dark" actually looks like. When Harold Tuttle posted a photo of Venus Capitoline, I was certain he'd found it.
A little more fussing with the DVD, screen shots, sharpening and density levels, and I came up with the closeups of the statuette below. It's not a Venus statue of any kind. It looks like some sort of Wonder Woman take-off or something like that.
The material in the crotch area has folds, and it goes up in a "v", over the hips, and falls straight down the back, covering the butt and legs completely in the rear. At the shoulders there appears to be a stand-up collar. Around the breasts it looks like there's a v-shaped opening in the fabric, covering the breasts.
I thought the hair was just high, but it looks like there's a crown of some type (or a Wonder Woman-style head dress).
So, I don't know what it is. Any ideas?
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gunshopfinder.com%2Fgeraldine_sharpened.jpg&hash=f4773889528cfae0f95d421e456f879379790127)
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gunshopfinder.com%2Fgeraldine_front.jpg&hash=a5708fb3c386ab053f95afe472e65c03d8fb1ba3)
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To me it has the look of either southeast Asia such as Thailand or Cambodia or Indian (Hindu). The headpiece kind of leans towards India to me.
bob
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Looks like an idol of some sort. Venus of Willendorf after she lost weight.
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"I Dream of Jeannie"
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To me it has the look of either southeast Asia such as Thailand or Cambodia or Indian (Hindu). The headpiece kind of leans towards India to me.
bob
I agree with BobR. It looks like something from SE Asia or India.
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Is it Geraldine Ferraro?
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I don't think Geraldine Ferraro ever looked that good. I doubt that she does now.
I know what those who are saying Indonesian or other SE Asian are thinking: that the headdress is a full frontal piece. It's not. It has a head band and then three pieces coming up from the band in the front. The rest is hair.
I'll look at SE Asian, though.
The turned up collar is weird, though. Maybe SE Asian version of a female Elvis impersonator?
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I don't think Geraldine Ferraro ever looked that good. I doubt that she does now.
Dead, now.
I know what those who are saying Indonesian or other SE Asian are thinking: that the headdress is a full frontal piece. It's not. It has a head band and then three pieces coming up from the band in the front. The rest is hair.
I'll look at SE Asian, though.
The turned up collar is weird, though. Maybe SE Asian version of a female Elvis impersonator?
Carmen Miranda?
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Another vote for Indian, Southeast Asian. Especially with the emphasized ears and nose.
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Dead, now.
I know, that's why I doubt she looks that good now. And I don't propose we dig her up to find out. ;)
Carmen Miranda? You see bananas in there?
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I don't see enough details in the pictures to distinguish fruit.
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I think she is Bodhisattva Kwan Yin
http://www.heidicries.com/ProductView.php?id=350&proid=10694
http://www.heidicries.com/ProductList.php?id=350&type=ProductList
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I think she is Bodhisattva Kwan Yin
Or possibly Guan-Di? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vwi77qlEl9c)
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Carmen SanDiego?
Medusa?
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Sorry, folks. No cigar yet.
I've spent untold number of hours searching for photos of statues, statuettes, and figurines. I've looked at probably every depiction of a naked or partially naked woman in the history of art. Nothing even comes close now that I have the photos above.
Asian statues have much more going on in terms of headdresses, arms, etc. This is too plain. It's also too dressed (collar, clothing around groin) to be Greek. It's not as stylized as Egyptian.
I think it's Princess Di wearing an Elvis jacket, a tiara, and a 1950's bathing suit.
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I think it's Princess Di wearing an Elvis jacket, a tiara, and a 1950's bathing suit.
Then go with that. It's your knife. Just pick something already.
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Fistful, it's going to take a lot of time to make this. I'd hate to get it done after tons of work, say it's a replica of the knife from the movie only to have someone say, "oh, no, the knife in the movie was a little Rita Hayworth doll that they sold at Woolworths in the 1950's."
I joined a couple of art forums and asked at those. I didn't get any replies, though. I think this is too low-brow for them. If she had a head shaped like a trapezoid I might get a better response.
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There's got to be a classic movie forum out there ...
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My guess is that it's a representation of Kali.
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My statue only has two arms, Mike. Or is this (http://www.easternsurf.com/esmgirl_kali.html) the Kali you were thinking of? ;)
There's got to be a classic movie forum out there ...
I'm guessing I've read every one that makes any reference to "Wait Until Dark" or "Geraldine".
The prop person was already in his late 60's when this was made in 1967. I doubt he's around now.
Every switchblade forum that mentions it has people saying they'd love to have it. There's one post by one member on one forum in which he says he got it at an auction, but he never mentions it again. From reading his other posts, I'm inclined to think he was slinging bull. I've never seen any other reference to the knife's existence.
I know I can annoy people with things like this, as I get blinders on, as my wife puts it. My gut says to just do a nude Greek goddess, but then that would defeat the purpose of having a replica made. It would just be a Greek goddess statue (and an expensive one) with a blade in it.
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I've looked at probably every depiction of a naked or partially naked woman in the history of art.
I admire your diligence ;)
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The larger, blurry picture kind of looks like she has a penis. :O
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The larger, blurry picture kind of looks like she has a penis.
I know. I think that may be some jewelry or other objects strung to the cord belt that is visible in back, but not in these frontal shots. You can see the cord in this photo:
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gunshopfinder.com%2Fgeraldine_back.jpg&hash=06eca145edb9de2d1a9919d184e8278849401151)
If you look at this shot, as well as some of the other frontal shots, it looks as though she has some bicep bracelets on.
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she's a thai buddhist figurine
probably from the tourist trade and found in italy at a market
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she's a thai buddhist figurine
probably from the tourist trade and found in italy at a market
Yeah, now make up some kind of proof of this, just to shut him up. =)
Monkeyleg, have you thought about contacting anyone else involved with the film? (other than the prop guy)
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(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aantv.com%2Fimages%2F2011%2F03%2F334452.top.png&hash=4a1089c158b68551016c8ea1dae0d33c16d34e5a)(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gunshopfinder.com%2Fgeraldine_sharpened.jpg&hash=f4773889528cfae0f95d421e456f879379790127)(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimage.shutterstock.com%2Fdisplay_pic_with_logo%2F486%2F486%2C1142327942%2C1%2Fstock-photo-statue-of-female-deity-1082851.jpg&hash=79a9d5a406c88dfee16f858b38dca080fa6f8fa6)
http://aan.tv/?page=auction_catalog&showdate=2011-03-06&class=&start_item=30
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You're incredible, Harold. How do you do these things?
"Geraldine" looks like a Westernized version of the silver Thai deity on the left. The shapes that look like a penis must be part of the lotus blossoms she's holding (maybe flowers upside down?).
Thank you.
Fistful, I've looked for people involved with the movie, but can't find anyone alive who might have had something to do with props. It was 44 years ago when the movie was released.
Why do you read my posts if they irritate you?
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Definitely Asian, and my guess is Buddhist rather than Hindu.
http://www.google.com/search?q=buddhist+goddesses&hl=en&biw=1203&bih=684&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=KPaITqyvEKnA0AGP7_C3BA&sqi=2&ved=0CHIQsAQ
Maybe Tara
http://www.google.com/search?q=buddhist+goddesses&hl=en&biw=1203&bih=684&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=KPaITqyvEKnA0AGP7_C3BA&sqi=2&ved=0CHIQsAQ#hl=en&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=goddess+tara&pbx=1&oq=goddess+Tara&aq=0&aqi=g4g-m3g-S3&aql=&gs_sm=c&gs_upl=118709l123316l0l126726l8l7l0l0l0l3l1010l2966l2-2.3.1.7-1l7l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=72eadfb61c42c1c6&biw=1203&bih=684
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well, taking chinese and indian art history in the 80s was a help
that plus goggle image searching and looking a pages of images
in Buddhist art the hand positions are iconic so i looked for a position match
It could have been a trade copy in plastic of an ivory original design
the original might have lost the point from the headpiece in the prop department
standing thai female deity (http://www.google.com/search?q=buddhist+goddesses&hl=en&biw=1203&bih=684&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=KPaITqyvEKnA0AGP7_C3BA&sqi=2&ved=0CHIQsAQ#hl=en&safe=off&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=standing+thai+female+deity&oq=standing+thai+female+deity&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=9338l27553l0l28800l42l41l8l17l2l0l308l3285l1.6.7.2l16l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=25ade185751c5207&biw=1365&bih=885)
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Thanks again, Harold. I'm just amazed that you're able to pull up links or images so quickly on all sorts of topics on this forum.
This is definitely on the right track. The gown on the Thai deity shows her waist, and curves over her hips on either side as it goes to the back. That would match the back on the gown on Geraldine. The front of the gown on the deity goes between the breasts, which the gown on Geraldine could be doing (could). Then there's the high collar (or whatever that style is called). The hand position is just about 100%. The face on Geraldine looks more western, but that could be a function of the artist or company that made it.
The gown on Geraldine doesn't look like it goes below her groin in front, but in photos that I have of the base, it's clear that it's a full-length gown with splits on the side.
I'm going to use this or another deity from the link you just provided, and modify it to more closely match Geraldine.
If nothing else, Fistful should be happy. ;)
Thanks again.
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"Geraldine"? She doesn't look anything like Flip Wilson. (the nose is right, but the hair and the hips are all wrong)
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well, the one i found was a bronze where as geraldine is an ivory
there would be detail differences in subtractionist vs additive sculpture
i'm still curious to find out exactly whom the thai figure is
She might be Ayutthaya period
here is her sister
http://www.boranasianart.com/items/832476/item832476store.html
According to Buddhist tradition, Tara was born from the compassionate tears of the bodhisattva Avalokiteshvara. It is said that he wept as he looked upon the suffering of the world, and his tears formed a lake from which a lotus emerged. When the lotus opened, the goddess Tara was revealed. Tara is the goddess of universal compassion and represents virtuous and enlightened action. She is also said to bring about longevity, protect earthly travel, and guard her followers on their spiritual journey to enlightenment.
standing tara (http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=Ayutthaya+tara&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1365&bih=885#um=1&hl=en&safe=off&client=safari&rls=en&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=standing+tara&pbx=1&oq=standing+tara&aq=f&aqi=g1g-mS1&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=92684l94808l0l96019l8l8l0l0l0l2l340l1973l1.1.4.2l8l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=25ade185751c5207&biw=1365&bih=885)
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I don't think Geraldine is ivory. I think it's some material painted to look like it has a patina, or maybe it's a real patina.
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/28-Tibet-Bronze-Gilt-Lotus-Standing-Green-Tara-Statue-/200655666396?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb8027cdc#ht_6941wt_1303
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tibetan-Buddhist-STANDING-GREEN-TARA-STATUE-Small-Green-Resin-Figure-5-x3-NEW-/260850164392?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cbbe1a2a8#ht_1529wt_1070
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Lots of nekkidness. ;)
I really think you nailed it with the first Thai deity. That gives me everything I need to give the sculptor for reference.
I have to modify some things to make the blade fit, such as the width of the waist, the thickness front to back of the legs, etc. I even have to do something with the neck so the blade can slide up that far. So, Geraldine won't be an exact replica, but extremely close.
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Why do you read my posts if they irritate you?
I was kidding you about this thread, and about the letters to the editor, too. Good luck with the project. At least it gives you something to do, besides reading hippy-lit. =)
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"My statue only has two arms, Mike."
In Hindu religion, the number of arms on many of the gods isn't fixed.
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In Hindu religion, the number of arms on many of the gods isn't fixed.
You mean they're removable and attachable? Like Transformers? That would come in handy for a lot of projects around the house. ;)
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they are like mighty morphing power strangers
Tara has many forms
The most widely known forms of Tārā are:
Green Tārā, known as the Buddha of enlightened activity
White Tārā, also known for compassion, long life, healing and serenity; also known as The Wish-fulfilling Wheel, or Cintachakra
Red Tārā, of fierce aspect associated with magnetizing all good things
Black Tārā, associated with power
Yellow Tārā, associated with wealth and prosperity
Blue Tārā, associated with transmutation of anger
Cittamani Tārā, a form of Tārā widely practiced at the level of Highest Yoga Tantra in the Gelug School of Tibetan Buddhism, portrayed as green and often conflated with Green Tārā
Khadiravani Tārā (Tārā of the acacia forest), who appeared to Nagarjuna in the Khadiravani forest of South India and who is sometimes referred to as the "22nd Tārā."
one tara (white) provides protection from snakes
image googling "tara white snake" will find you another tarra white,
who seems like a good model for this endeavor, but is rather NSFW
Tarra White (born on 19 November 1987 in Ostrava, Czechoslovakia, as Martina Mrakviová) is an award-winning Czech pornographic actress.
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Well, that was entertaining. :)
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yeah, so i was looking at
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aantv.com%2Fimages%2F2011%2F03%2F334452.top.png&hash=4a1089c158b68551016c8ea1dae0d33c16d34e5a)
and i was wondering about the "is holding two lotus blossoms in her hands"
they don't look like the typical lotus blossoms in her hands
http://www.trocadero.com/ancienteyes/items/1079064/en1store.html
in fact it really looks like she is holding a snake
hence my "tara white snake" image search being spelling corrected by google (thanks) to tarra whitesnake
which yielded pages of hard porn
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(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimage.shutterstock.com%2Fdisplay_pic_with_logo%2F486%2F486%2C1142327942%2C1%2Fstock-photo-statue-of-female-deity-1082851.jpg&hash=79a9d5a406c88dfee16f858b38dca080fa6f8fa6)
Glenn Walkers image looks like a tourist trade statuette (http://www.shutterstock.com/cat.mhtml?lang=en&search_source=search_form&version=llv1&anyorall=all&safesearch=1&searchterm=deity&search_group=&orient=&search_cat=&searchtermx=&photographer_name=Glenn++Walker&people_gender=&people_age=&people_ethnicity=&people_number=&commercial_ok=&color=&show_color_wheel=1#id=1082851) i wonder where he got it