Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: zxcvbob on November 07, 2011, 11:34:52 PM
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The insurance company did a walkthru inspection of our church and found a few minor problems that I'm taking care of; mainly, paper goods and buckets of paint stored next to the furnace (the paint was latex, but rather than argue I moved it. It was in the way), and the fire extinguisher needs inspecting and testing. That got me thinking about fire extinguishers in general.
The only extinguisher currently is in the basement near the kitchen, and the men's toilet that also serves as the utility room. It's a dry chemical type, I think it's ABC rated and I don't know the numbers. I should probably get another extinguisher or two for upstairs.
1) Should I get a kitchen extinguisher -- something designed especially for grease fires -- to replace the general purpose one downstairs and move the old one to the sanctuary or foyer after I get it recertified? I had been thinking of getting a pressurized water "2A" extinguisher for the sanctuary.
2) I probably ought to put a small C-rated extinguisher by the sound equipment. What kind should I get for that, so if we ever have to use it the amplifiers and stuff can be cleaned and reused afterwards? Purple K? Sodium bicarb?
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I'd go for co2 for the electronics. You hit it purple k you can pretty well right it off if the fire didn't total it.
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I'd go for co2 for the electronics. You hit it purple k you can pretty well right it off if the fire didn't total it.
Really? I thought K and sodium bicarbonate could both be vacuumed out as long as it didn't get wet. (and that the phosphate stuff was impossible to clean out.) I will check on the 10# CO2 extinguishers...
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Oh, you can vacuum it, but it's gonna be toast. I'd want a good water/foam extinguisher for most areas.
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The problem with the powder chemical extinguishes is that they are highly corrosive to metals, especially all that fine copper circuitry in modern electronics. In order of least to most destructive to electronics:
CO2/HALON
fresh water wide angle fog
salt water wide angle fog
narrow angle/solid stream fresh/salt water
AFFF
PKP
APC
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I'm another fan of C02. At work that's all we are allowed to have. They can also have further utility in case you need to tap a keg or fill up a paintball gun or something.
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OK, I'll look into CO2 and deionized water mist extinguishers. There's *lots* of hospitals around here, so the 2AC water extinguishers shouldn't be too hard to find.
I did not know CO2 extinguishers had the right valve for tapping a keg or filling a paintball gun. (I'm having trouble visualizing that)
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just beware of the two bumps when using co2 in an enclosed area.
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I did not know CO2 extinguishers had the right valve for tapping a keg or filling a paintball gun. (I'm having trouble visualizing that)
Usually the hose that goes to the nozzle/wand thing just screws in with NPT threads, which you can adapt to whatever you need.
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On the other hand, dry chemical should work on a grease fire just fine.
Also, you might keep a large dry chemical as back up in case those others don't work so well for some reason. Better to ruin some equipment than burn the whole place down.
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On the other hand, dry chemical should work on a grease fire just fine.
Also, you might keep a large dry chemical as back up in case those others don't work so well for some reason. Better to ruin some equipment than burn the whole place down.
I just talked to a guy at the local fire & safety company. He says I need multiple ABC dry chemical extinguishers (which are the cheapest, BTW) for the size of the building, and don't worry about the electronics. There may be some wisdom to that...
I still really like the idea of the deionized water mist extinguishers for upstairs where there's no grease fire risk. Those are kind of expensive though; I could buy three 3A:40B:C rated dry chems for the price of one 2A:C rated DI water.
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The best combination will be plenty of ABC extinquishers for fires, daily redundant backups for information, and good insurance for equipment.
Brad
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I have an ABC one for the kitchen, and a halon one for the equipment/gun room. The spot cooling of halon (or co2 for that matter) is a plus for certain things.
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The only extinguisher currently is in the basement near the kitchen, and the men's toilet that also serves as the utility room.
I suspect you'd hear about it if it were the wimmins' room doing double duty.
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I suspect you'd hear about it if it were the wimmins' room doing double duty.
You got that right.
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CO2 in the kitchen.
That way if you have a pan fire during a church supper you don't contaminate everything in the kitchen.
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I was just thinking that for hydrogen fires at work (small ones) they use nitrogen or steam.
The main thing I would be concerned with is the speed at which a fire in the house/building can propagate and spread. Do you have time to try an alternative fire suppression method that might fail? It might only take a couple minutes before you can't stay in the room.
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i discovered this morning how a hole in a power steering hose can build a fire. also was pleased that rc cola worked well as an extinguisher.
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I do not like the stock insurance recommendation of ABCs everywhere. That's because that's what their book says. ABC in the kitchen and in the garage. Everywhere else in a structure you are probably going to deal with an alpha fire, something damp would be rather nice in those situations. The dry chemical ABCs are very limited in their A capability, mainly due to lack of cooling and therefore inability to prevent re-ignition.
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i discovered this morning how a hole in a power steering hose can build a fire. also was pleased that rc cola worked well as an extinguisher.
I assume you have to shake it up to activate it? :laugh:
So, a long time ago I was in the navy. I was a #1 nozzleman at times. Had a bacon fire (yes, I know perish the thought) one morning in the wardroom galley oven. They were baking the bacon. Anyhoo I was first in with a hose full of seawater, The scene leader was right behind me. I crouched down and popped open the oven at which point a nice big ball of fire rolled out and I could see that it was bacon burning. So I closed the door and started yelling back, CO2!! CO2!!. Scene leader turns around and yells PKP!! PKP!! So I'm looking at him and say, "You're kidding right?" but I am outranked. He yells again PKP!! PKP!! In through the door comes the pkp, I pop the door on the oven again and he puts the fire out, making an unGodly mess. THEN he says to me, "I want to teach these effers a lesson!" and proceeds to discharge the rest of the pkp all over the kitchen. I never really liked him that much, but I liked him even less after that. ;)
Meanwhile, I just bought a chemical ABC extinguisher and this got me thinking I should have friggin got CO2. :facepalm:
=|
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You know, if we had used CO2. We might have been able to save that bacon. I'll never forgive him. [ar15]
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Couldn't they have just kept the oven closed and let it burn out on its own.
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But then I wouldn't have gotten to see the big ball of fire roll over my head. =(
Good question actually, I don't know. My first inclination was to douse it with CO2. Seemed t like the right choice at the time. I guess it depends on how fast you want your fire out. I did have the presence of mind not to hose it down with sea water. :angel:
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While I would say that for a class Bravo fire (bacon grease) the CO2 probably would have worked, I have to ask, were the ovens electric, or like on my ship, fed live steam from the boiler plant? If you had 450 degree pressurized steam lines running through them then introducing an extremely cold substance (liquid CO2 flashing to gas) could have been very bad ju-ju. So, aside from sticking it to the officers, PKP would have been the best choice in that instance.
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First you have to ask yourself, will a steam heated oven set bacon on fire? =D
He wasn't sticking it to the officers, he was sticking it to the enlisted galley guys. Who happend to be my friends as well. When you FIX the galley equipment cooks become your friends. Having cooks as friends on a ship has certain advantages. >:D
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First you have to ask yourself, will a steam heated oven set bacon on fire? =D
He wasn't sticking it to the officers, he was sticking it to the enlisted galley guys. Who happend to be my friends as well. When you FIX the galley equipment cooks become your friends. Having cooks as friends on a ship has certain advantages. >:D
Oh I'm well aware of the advantages of staying in the good graces of the cooks. =D (USS Iwo Jima LHD7, 2003-05) From the story you told (ward room, denial of bacon, etc.) I thought the guy was going after the officer's food, rather than specifically dicking around with the cookies.
As for a steam line starting a fire? Yes it can. Steam under pressure is much hotter than the vapor wafting up from your boiling stew pot. Be that as it may, the ignition source could have been something other than the live steam lines, and it would still be a bad idea to rapidly chill those steam lines. My ship had a pair of Babcock & Wilcox 600 psi boilers. If I'm remembering right, the main steam lines were running at around 500*F. But I'm curious now about the ship you were on, do you recall what sort of engineering plant and what not?
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1200 PSI DDG. I'll admit we could light our cigarettes off the exposed main steam valves but by the time steam got to the galley or laundry it was knocked down to 150 PSI. Still hot as hell, enough to burn you good, but not hot enough to ignite anything. The stoves and ovens were electric. The steam kettles were steam. And probably the steam table but I can't ever recall working on that. You know a cook will love you forever if you come in and make his steam kettle work for him when he needs it most. :cool: