Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: AZRedhawk44 on November 28, 2011, 02:50:20 PM
-
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/nov/28/family-illegal-immigrant-student-martyred-himself-/
My comment?
We need better enforcement of gun laws already on the books. Prosecute the family (or whomever made the gun available) for making a pistol available to an 18 year old mentally unstable illegal alien, then deport them. Even if he bought the pistol via private party transaction, whomever sold it to him should have AT LEAST checked for a valid TX driver's license. Can't get one of those in TX without proof of legal residency.
The media, along with Mecha and La Raza, are going to absolutely milk this thing for all it's worth.
-
See, if we had to go through dealers for all sales this wouldn't have happened and illegals wouldn't be able to get guns! There might even be illegal terrorists buying guns through this method.
Sarcasm aside, be careful wishing for security of any kind, including border security.
-
No doubt he would have made a fine contribution to Mexico. And God knows they could have used him. He did have choices.
I'm tired of having all problems in the world handed to us as our problems.
-
We need better enforcement of gun laws already on the books.
I disagree, except for the Second Amendment.
-
I disagree, except for the Second Amendment.
No....we need better enforcement of the Second Amendment....
-
No....we need better enforcement of the Second Amendment....
I think you meant to say, "+1."
-
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/nov/28/family-illegal-immigrant-student-martyred-himself-/
We need better enforcement of gun laws already on the books. Prosecute the family (or whomever made the gun available) for making a pistol available to an 18 year old mentally unstable illegal alien, then deport them.
There's no evidence in the article this person was mentally unstable.
-
There's no evidence in the article this person was mentally unstable.
Suicide, ( by an otherwise healthy person) attempted or successful is a pretty solid indication of mental instability.
That there may have been previous indications of mental issues is unknown.
-
Suicide, ( by an otherwise healthy person) attempted or successful is a pretty solid indication of mental instability.
That there may have been previous indications of mental issues is unknown.
Are you serious?
-
Are you serious?
About what in particular?
-
About what in particular?
Do you seriously believe that when a physically healthy person kills themselves they must be mentally ill?
-
Do you seriously believe that when a physically healthy person kills themselves they must be mentally ill?
Yes.
Mentally stable people, when confronted with an adverse situation, work to remedy the situation and improve their lot in life somehow.
-
how western in mind set
On 10 June 1963, a spokesperson for the Buddhists privately informed the U.S. correspondents that "something important" would happen the following morning on the road outside the Cambodian embassy in Saigon.[23] Most of the reporters disregarded the message, since the Buddhist crisis had at that point been going on for over a month, and the next day only a few journalists turned up, including David Halberstam of The New York Times and Malcolm Browne, who was the Saigon bureau chief for the Associated Press.[23]
ThÃch Quảng Đức arrived as part of a procession that had begun at a nearby pagoda. Around 350 monks and nuns marched in two phalanxes, preceded by an Austin Westminster sedan, carrying banners printed in both English and Vietnamese. They denounced the Diệm government and its policy towards Buddhists, demanding that it fulfill its promises of religious equality.[23] Another monk offered to burn himself, but ThÃch Quảng Đức's seniority prevailed.[1]
The act itself occurred at the intersection of Phan Dinh Phung Boulevard and Le Van Duyet Street.[23] ThÃch Quảng Đức emerged from the car along with two other monks. One placed a cushion on the road while the second opened the trunk and took out a five-gallon gasoline can. As the marchers formed a circle around him, ThÃch Quảng Đức calmly seated himself in the traditional Buddhist meditative lotus position on the cushion. His colleague emptied the contents of the gasoline container over ThÃch Quảng Đức's head. ThÃch Quảng Đức rotated a string of wooden prayer beads and recited the words Nam Mô A Di Đà Phật ("homage to Amitabha Buddha") before striking a match and dropping it on himself. Flames consumed his robes and flesh, and black oily smoke emanated from his burning body.[23][24]
The last words of ThÃch Quảng Đức before his self-immolation were documented in a letter he had left:
Before closing my eyes and moving towards the vision of the Buddha, I respectfully plead to President Ngo Dinh Diem to take a mind of compassion towards the people of the nation and implement religious equality to maintain the strength of the homeland eternally. I call the venerables, reverends, members of the sangha and the lay Buddhists to organise in solidarity to make sacrifices to protect Buddhism.[4]
David Halberstam wrote:
I was to see that sight again, but once was enough. Flames were coming from a human being; his body was slowly withering and shriveling up, his head blackening and charring. In the air was the smell of burning human flesh; human beings burn surprisingly quickly. Behind me I could hear the sobbing of the Vietnamese who were now gathering. I was too shocked to cry, too confused to take notes or ask questions, too bewildered to even think... As he burned he never moved a muscle, never uttered a sound, his outward composure in sharp contrast to the wailing people around him.[25]
Thich Quang Duc Car Parked In Hue.ogg
Today, the car in which ThÃch Quảng Đức traveled to his self-immolation is parked at Huế's Thien Mu Pagoda.
Police who tried to reach him could not break through the circle of Buddhist clergy. One of the policemen threw himself to the ground and prostrated himself in front of ThÃch Quảng Đức in reverence.[1] The spectators were mostly stunned into silence, but some wailed and several began praying. Many of the monks and nuns, as well as some shocked passersby, prostrated themselves before the burning monk.[1] In English and Vietnamese, a monk repeatedly declared into a microphone, "A Buddhist priest burns himself to death. A Buddhist priest becomes a martyr."[23]
After approximately ten minutes, ThÃch Quảng Đức's body was fully immolated, and it toppled forward onto the street and the fire subsided. A group of monks covered the smoking corpse with yellow robes, picked it up and tried to fit it into a coffin, but the limbs could not be bent and one of the arms protruded from the wooden box as he was carried to the nearby Xa Loi Pagoda in central Saigon. Outside the pagoda, students unfurled bilingual banners which read: "A Buddhist priest burns himself for our five requests." By 13:30, around one thousand monks had congregated inside Xa Loi to hold a meeting while outside a large crowd of pro-Buddhist students had formed a human barrier around it. The meeting soon ended and all but a hundred monks slowly left the compound. Nearly one thousand monks accompanied by laypeople returned to the cremation site. The police lingered nearby. At around 18:00, 30 nuns and six monks were arrested for holding a prayer meeting on the street outside Xa Loi Pagoda. The police then encircled the pagoda, blocking public passage and giving observers the impression that an armed siege was imminent by donning riot gear.[26] That evening, thousands of Saigonese claimed to have seen a vision of the Buddha's face in the sky as the sun had set. They claimed that in the vision the Buddha was weeping.[2]
[edit] Funeral and aftermath
After the self-immolation, the U.S. put more pressure on Diệm to re-open negotiations on the faltering agreement. Diệm had scheduled an emergency cabinet meeting at 11:30 on 11 June to discuss the Buddhist crisis which he believed to be winding down. Following ThÃch Quảng Đức's death, Diệm cancelled the meeting and met individually with his ministers. Acting U.S. Ambassador to South Vietnam William Trueheart warned Nguyễn Đình Thuận, Diệm's Secretary of State, of the desperate need for an agreement, saying that the situation was "dangerously near breaking point" and expected that Diệm would meet the Buddhists' five-point manifesto. United States Secretary of State Dean Rusk warned the Saigon embassy that the White House would publicly announce that it would no longer "associate itself" with the regime if this did not occur.[27] The Joint Communique and concessions to the Buddhists were signed on 16 June.[28]
15 June was set as the date for the funeral of ThÃch Quảng Đức, and on that day 4,000 people gathered outside Xa Loi Pagoda, only for the ceremony to be postponed. On 19 June, his remains were carried out of Xa Loi to a cemetery 16 kilometers (9.9 mi) south of the city for a re-cremation and funeral ceremony. Following the signing of the Joint Communique, attendance was limited by agreement between Buddhist leaders and police to approximately 400 monks.[28]
-
Thereveda Buddhist monks are nutso.
There's a reason that the rest of the Buddhist world calls them "Hinayana" or "The lesser/worse vehicle"... in contrast to Mahayana Buddhism that also spread through China and Japan from India.
That monk forgot the prime tenet and the 1st of the Four Noble Truths of Buddhism: All life is suffering.
He became too attached to his goal.
how western in mind set
I fully considered self-immolating monks as well as samurai in my statement.
-
he achieved his goal
-
Not to say what he did was right or wrong; but doing it in public and stirring up the media before hand would have generated a lot more effect for his cause, I think.
-
Luna wasn't a Buddhist: he WANTED something.
-
Luna wasn't a Buddhist: he WANTED something.
Further: He wanted something for FREE.
From the article:
In the absence of the Dream Act, Mr. Obama has tried to take administrative action. The Homeland Security Department has issued a memo to its immigration services saying those who would have qualified for the Dream Act should be low on the priority list for deportation. It also listed other factors, such as caring for a family, that would lower the risk of deportation.
Decisions on public higher education, however, are left to the states, which have differed on whether to charge illegal immigrant students in-state or out-of-state tuition. Many states argue that illegal immigrants can’t be legal state residents and must pay out-of-state rates, but Texas and California have gone the other direction.
So he gets in-State tuition rates already.
Obviously he got free public education through High School.
Sounds like he didn't get any scholarships.
Poor little darling would have had to actually PAY for his education. The horror. ;/ (Looks at Sallie Mae statement in stack of bills, sees original balance of $30k from 9 years ago and remaining balance of $9k now, with $600 bill this month, shakes head and mumbles something about deadbeat leeches.)
-
Further: He wanted something for FREE.
From the article:
So he gets in-State tuition rates already.
Obviously he got free public education through High School.
Sounds like he didn't get any scholarships.
Poor little darling would have had to actually PAY for his education. The horror. ;/ (Looks at Sallie Mae statement in stack of bills, sees original balance of $30k from 9 years ago and remaining balance of $9k now, with $600 bill this month, shakes head and mumbles something about deadbeat leeches.)
i'm thinking you only read the al jones version of what happened? can you show something to support the ideas you put forth?
atino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2011/11/28/family-hopes-teens-suicide-pushes-passage-dream-act/
kid was accepted at rice?
-
I'm not really going to lose much sleep over this one.
There isn't enough free stuff to go around for all of the people who want it.
If the kid decides to be 'pro-choice' with himself because .gov isn't going to force its way into my wallet on his behalf, well then adios amigo.
-
Do you seriously believe that when a physically healthy person kills themselves they must be mentally ill?
Absolutely.
-
All he wanted was "a better life."
How many times have we heard that one?
A better life that would mean a worse life for American citizens.
-
All he wanted was "a better life."
How many times have we heard that one?
A better life that would mean a worse life for American citizens.
how so? in what way?
-
Drain on the treasury, for openers.
But where I live the issue is cultural blight if I may be so blunt. Show me a heavily illegal alien-populated area and I'll show you a place you don't want to hang out.
For every DREAM valedictorian there are 50 kids tatt'd up and flashing gang signs. That is the reality whatever you may wish to believe. The issue is not the education they would like to get, it's the education they have destroyed for others, for American kids, in school district after school district. You can start with LAUSD if you need an example.
-
18 year old illegal alien kills self over failed DREAM Act
Well............ Bye.
-
Guess we need a new law that makes it illegal for teenage illegal aliens to get a gun and commit suicide......maybe something with a life sentence mandatory........
;/
-
Well............ Bye.
To quote from the Barney Frank thread....
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.chicagonow.com%2Fblogs%2Fchicago-now-radio%2FWellBye.jpg&hash=9b917f41aebdc53015190fe7835a2cf6a5bd59cc)
I foresee getting a lot of millage out of that jpg. (And yes, I'm feeling like an ornery cuss right now, how could you tell?)
-
can we still deport him anyway?
-
The numbers are hard to pin down, but I've seen credible estimates that the cost of educating illegal aliens (grades K-12) in Texas runs somewhere between 1 and 4 billion dollars a year. Subsidized college education (illegals get to pay discounted tuition rates thanks to Rick Perry) costs more.
Then there's the cost to medicate and incarcerate illegals . . .
I'm not shedding any tears over the suicide of an illegal alien; some may think it harsh, but I'm more of the "good riddance" mindset.
-
The only way the welfare state can even pretend to be sustainable is if the demographics show enough population growth.
Without the influx from Mexico I doubt we would have the population growth we currently have. The USA would probably look more like the failing European states in that regard.
The illegal immigrant "problem" shouldn't be as high on the list of concerns as dismantling the welfare state. Immigration is a good thing as long as you are attracting folks with the right kind of character.
Those who are attracted to the land of the free will be different from those who are attracted to the land of entitlements.
There is a lot of thinly disguised xenophobia in this forum.
-
The only way the welfare state can even pretend to be sustainable is if the demographics show enough population growth.
Without the influx from Mexico I doubt we would have the population growth we currently have. The USA would probably look more like the failing European states in that regard.
.............There is a lot of thinly disguised xenophobia in this forum.
A big reason why Americans don't have larger families is because of economic reasons. These economic reasons are artificial and are part of government social engineering.
A lot of well educated people would have an extra child or two if they weren't paying the extra $20-30K per year into the welfare state to subsidize the 'population growth' of people in the lower economic strata.
Too many resources are wasted on the lowest common denominator in our country.
-
The only way the welfare state can even pretend to be sustainable is if the demographics show enough population growth.
Without the influx from Mexico I doubt we would have the population growth we currently have. The USA would probably look more like the failing European states in that regard.
The illegal immigrant "problem" shouldn't be as high on the list of concerns as dismantling the welfare state. Immigration is a good thing as long as you are attracting folks with the right kind of character.
Those who are attracted to the land of the free will be different from those who are attracted to the land of entitlements.
There is a lot of thinly disguised xenophobia in this forum.
So ....the ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS (the ones who sneak in under the "radar" thus violating American law) are "the right kind of character???"
Yeah ... I know most just want a better life. I suppose the ones who followed the law, did it the hard way, and came here legally didn't want a better life?
-
Those who are attracted to the land of the free will be different from those who are attracted to the land of entitlements.
QFT.
Fix our "give away the farm" entitlement programs, and you'll see a significant shift in immigration demographics, and dare I say it, quality of the immigrant population.
-
So ....the ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS (the ones who sneak in under the "radar" thus violating American law) are "the right kind of character???"
Yeah ... I know most just want a better life. I suppose the ones who followed the law, did it the hard way, and came here legally didn't want a better life?
This is exactly what burns my crank.
I work with and have worked with a lot of highly educated and very productive foreigners from Eastern Europe/Asia who have to jump through hoop after hoop after bureaucratic hoop in order to become citizens here, yet we have people who make appologies for those who sneak across the border illegally and expect everything to be handed to them on a silver platter after thhey throw down an anchor baby.
-
The only way the welfare state can even pretend to be sustainable is if the demographics show enough population growth.
Without the influx from Mexico I doubt we would have the population growth we currently have. The USA would probably look more like the failing European states in that regard.
The illegal immigrant "problem" shouldn't be as high on the list of concerns as dismantling the welfare state. Immigration is a good thing as long as you are attracting folks with the right kind of character.
Those who are attracted to the land of the free will be different from those who are attracted to the land of entitlements.
There is a lot of thinly disguised xenophobia in this forum.
Xenophobia is a bad thing. Xenophilia is worse, far, far worse. That means a preference for the alien, a preference for those who do not advance American principles and ideals. America is more than a job faire, it is about liberty. A "better life" that involves illegal trespass, ongoing law-breaking, and taking from America citizens represents a "worse" life for Americans. We are not here to help foreigners at our own expense. The term "xenophobia" is just a way of never discussing the real issue: the cultural impact of immigration, both legal and illegal, on American society, culture, economy, and, most of all, values. The impact has been huge, transformative in my lifetime. Maybe real Americans would have more children if they weren't so busy paying for the children of people who shouldn't be here in the first place.
-
Xenophobia is a bad thing. Xenophilia is worse, far, far worse. That means a preference for the alien, a preference for those who do not advance American principles and ideals.
Theodore Roosevelt addressed the issue of foreigners who don't assimilate - and don't become ". . . an American and nothing else" - back in 1915. . . . There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all. This is just as true of the man who puts "native" before the hyphen as of the man who puts German or Irish or English or French before the hyphen. Americanism is a matter of the spirit and of the soul. Our allegiance must be purely to the United States. We must unsparingly condemn any man who holds any other allegiance. But if he is heartily and singly loyal to this Republic, then no matter where he was born, he is just as good an American as any one else.
The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English-Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian-Americans or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality, than with the other citizens of the American Republic. The men who do not become Americans and nothing else are hyphenated Americans; and there ought to be no room for them in this country. The man who calls himself an American citizen and who yet shows by his actions that he is primarily the citizen of a foreign land, plays a thoroughly mischievous part in the life of our body politic. He has no place here; and the sooner he returns to the land to which he feels his real heart-allegiance, the better it will be for every good American. There is no such thing as a hyphenated American who is a good American. The only man who is a good American is the man who is an American and nothing else.
For an American citizen to vote as a German-American, an Irish-American, or an English-American, is to be a traitor to American institutions; and those hyphenated Americans who terrorize American politicians by threats of the foreign vote are engaged in treason to the American Republic.
- Theodore Roosevelt
I think we can condemn those who add Mexican-, Arab-, Bolivian-, Chinese-, and every other nationality ahead of "American" to the few that Roosevelt mentioned.
-
This is just as true of the man who puts "native" before the hyphen
-
Theodore Roosevelt addressed the issue of foreigners who don't assimilate - and don't become ". . . an American and nothing else" - back in 1915. I think we can condemn those who add Mexican-, Arab-, Bolivian-, Chinese-, and every other nationality ahead of "American" to the few that Roosevelt mentioned.
Even "Kenyan" or "Indonesian." =(
-
This is just as true of the man who puts "native" before the hyphen
Well, unless they really are ;)
-
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/federal-government/house-bill-ends-country-limits-for-skilled-workers-seeking-visas/2011/11/29/gIQA7BQ99N_story.html
WASHINGTON — The House voted Tuesday to end per-country caps on worker-based immigration visas, a move that should benefit skilled Indian and Chinese residents seeking to stay in the United States and the high-tech companies who hire them.
The legislation, which passed 389-15, was a rare example of bipartisan accord on immigration, an issue that largely has been avoided during the current session of Congress because of the political sensitivities involved.
The measure would eliminate the current law that says employment-based visas to any one country can’t exceed 7 percent of the total number of such visas given out. Instead, permanent residence visas or green cards would be handled on a first-come, first-served basis.
The bill, said its sponsor, Rep. Jason Chaffetz, R-Utah, “does encourage high-skilled immigrants who were educated in the U.S. to stay and help build our economy rather than using the skills they learned here to aid our competitor nations.”
Currently, the State Department issues about 140,000 such green cards a year to foreign nationals working in the United States, often after getting degrees from U.S. universities.
The bill also changes family-based visa limits from 7 percent per country to 15 percent per country, an adjustment that could slightly ease the backlog for naturalized citizens, particularly from Mexico and the Philippines, trying to bring relatives into the country.
-
Drain on the treasury, for openers.
But where I live the issue is cultural blight if I may be so blunt. Show me a heavily illegal alien-populated area and I'll show you a place you don't want to hang out.
For every DREAM valedictorian there are 50 500 kids tatt'd up and flashing gang signs. That is the reality whatever you may wish to believe. The issue is not the education they would like to get, it's the education they have destroyed for others, for American kids, in school district after school district. You can start with LAUSD if you need an example.
We have friends who teach in the local public school systems. 500:1 thug:valedictorian is a generous estimate.
Add DISD. It is estimated roughly 1/3 the kids are illegals and more are anchor babies. It is not like we didn't already have poor kids who could use those resources.
A big reason why Americans don't have larger families is because of economic reasons. These economic reasons are artificial and are part of government social engineering.
A lot of well educated people would have an extra child or two if they weren't paying the extra $20-30K per year into the welfare state to subsidize the 'population growth' of people in the lower economic strata.
Too many resources are wasted on the lowest common denominator in our country.
This. With bells on it. We stopped at two because that was all we could afford to send to private school. My federal taxes alone would pay the annual tuition of another two kids and my annual property taxes (most of which get dumped into the local gov't schools) would pay for yet another child's tuition. State & local sales taxes? You guessed it, roughly equivalent to another child's tuition. We subsidize the foreign and the feeble-minded at the expense of the native and the able.
And it is not like we go crazy with the consumer spending, that gets a going-over, too. Up until April of this year, I drove a 14YO pickup with 175k miles and only stopped driving it and replaced it with a 6YO car because a gal ran into it and totaled it. My wife's is a 5YO auto with 180k miles. We live in a decent neighborhood in a house 1/2 the size of the average new built house. The Joneses have lapped us, but we hope to have kids who stay off the crack pipe and off the brass pole instead of new autos and a big house.
There is a lot of thinly disguised xenophobia folks who resent taking it in the shorts for the benefit of law-breaking invaders and their enablers in this forum.
There, that is more accurate.
-
For the record, I have no problem supporting shutting down the borders and kicking out the riff raff.
Most of the illegals are not riff raff.
A growing economy (even with a limited safety net provided by the government) could easily provide work for them and us IMHO.
Privatizing education would go a long ways toward helping assimilation.
That said, the rot from within is only being exploited by those who sneak in, it is not caused by nor should they be the focus of our energy.
Reversing the European welfare state instituted as our new normal is more pressing.
-
For the record, I have no problem supporting shutting down the borders and kicking out the riff raff.
Most of the illegals are not riff raff.
A growing economy (even with a limited safety net provided by the government) could easily provide work for them and us IMHO.
Privatizing education would go a long ways toward helping assimilation.
That said, the rot from within is only being exploited by those who sneak in, it is not caused by nor should they be the focus of our energy.
Reversing the European welfare state instituted as our new normal is more pressing.
Yeah, but they are all costing me plenty, "riff raff" or no(1).
Most illegals will never, ever make enough to pay just the cost to the taxpayer from gov't services. Even for fully taxed American citizens, the "in the wagon" vs "pulling the wagon" cutoff is ~$40k/year. We do not want to make more jobs for 19th century laborers in our 21st century economy.
I hear the "end the welfare state, don't go after illegals" from libertarians a lot. They never think that illegals are the first, easiest step on that road. If we can't move them off and out, how in the world do they think we can wrest Americans off the gov't teat?
Those of us pulling the wagon and paying the taxes want relief, pronto.
(1) Second and third gen immigrants from south of the border are more likely than their illegal or legal parents to be riff raff, have bastard children, etc. When the assimilate, they assimilate into the wrong American subculture it seems.
-
When the assimilate, they assimilate into the wrong American subculture it seems.
haole speak much truth