Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Ben on January 02, 2012, 10:02:28 AM
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I'd seen the headlines about this, but hadn't read the article until this morning. From the sound of it in the story, a former LEO shot out the glass with his handgun submerged in the water. The story specifically mentions that he pushed the gun up onto the glass, so it sounds like he was smart enough to get some water in the barrel before pulling the trigger. Nevertheless, seems like a risky way to gain entry. But then I'm armchair quarterbacking, he did try other methods, and he did save lives. So good on him.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/01/02/passers-by-rescue-children-after-car-plunges-into-icy-river/#ixzz1iIFhwoLV
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Guns - is there anything they can't do? =)
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Guns - is there anything they can't do? =)
Make cheese?
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Make cheese?
Is that a euphemism?
DD
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Make cheese?
Swiss =)
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How is it that the father got out but then the doors were all closed?
Good job by the rescuers, but there's a piece missing.
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How is it that the father got out but then the doors were all closed?
Good job by the rescuers, but there's a piece missing.
I do not think there is anything hinkey going on. Door can close as the car flipped and submerged. With all the windows closed it's difficult to achieve pressure equilibrium, and with even a small air pocket inside the pressure outside can be significantly greater than inside, thus effectively sealing the door shut. That's why "THEY" tell you to roll down your window and hold your breath untill the whole car fills up before trying to open the door.
Being drowned in icy water offers a much better chance of revival/survival than drowning in warm water - sounds as if the little boy is another example of that fact.
stay safe.
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Guns - is there anything they can't do? =)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Highway_Patrol#Issued_Vehicles_and_Weapons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Highway_Patrol#Issued_Vehicles_and_Weapons)
As far as duty weapons, the agency issues its members the Glock 22 .40 caliber.....
New Glock "Perfection" commercial arriving in 5....4....3....
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Also, it looks from the picture that the car came to rest with the drivers door on the bottom. Maybe he got out the window when it was still partially floating? However, a very happy ending to have all three kids make it out.
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I do not think there is anything hinkey going on. Door can close as the car flipped and submerged. With all the windows closed it's difficult to achieve pressure equilibrium, and with even a small air pocket inside the pressure outside can be significantly greater than inside, thus effectively sealing the door shut. That's why "THEY" tell you to roll down your window and hold your breath untill the whole car fills up before trying to open the door.
I can attest to that from personal experience. In ASTC aviation water survival training, we have to strap into a "dunker" that drops into a pool, begins filling with water, and then flips over. There is NO WAY to get a door open until the thing is completely full of water. We're trained to sit calmly, take a breath just before it flips, and then stay where we are until it stabilizes. Then unstrap and feel our way to a door or window. The point is drilled into us that trying to open a door before pressure is fully equalized only uses up what little O2 you have and gets you killed.
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I do not think there is anything hinkey going on. Door can close as the car flipped and submerged. With all the windows closed it's difficult to achieve pressure equilibrium, and with even a small air pocket inside the pressure outside can be significantly greater than inside, thus effectively sealing the door shut. That's why "THEY" tell you to roll down your window and hold your breath untill the whole car fills up before trying to open the door.
Being drowned in icy water offers a much better chance of revival/survival than drowning in warm water - sounds as if the little boy is another example of that fact.
stay safe.
Hypothermia is gaining acceptance as a therapy for trauma patients, ostensibly for its anti-shock and anti-inflammatory properties.
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Swiss =)
Thanks! I was hoping someone would take that shot.
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Swiss =)
Holey comback, Batman... Sir.
DD
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I do not think there is anything hinkey going on. Door can close as the car flipped and submerged. With all the windows closed it's difficult to achieve pressure equilibrium, and with even a small air pocket inside the pressure outside can be significantly greater than inside, thus effectively sealing the door shut. That's why "THEY" tell you to roll down your window and hold your breath untill the whole car fills up before trying to open the door.
Being drowned in icy water offers a much better chance of revival/survival than drowning in warm water - sounds as if the little boy is another example of that fact.
stay safe.
If you roll down the window, you should have an exit without having to wait for the car to fill up. Just sayin.
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If you roll down the window, you should have an exit without having to wait for the car to fill up. Just sayin.
Well, yeah! As long as you can fit through the window, can get in position to get out the window, and remember to roll down the window as you are going off the road into the water to begin with.
And LadySmith accuses me of being too logical. Sheesh!
stay safe.
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If you roll down the window, you should have an exit without having to wait for the car to fill up. Just sayin.
Electric window up/down thingy motor + water = maybe not so much.
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Also, it looks from the picture that the car came to rest with the drivers door on the bottom. Maybe he got out the window when it was still partially floating? However, a very happy ending to have all three kids make it out.
The article said the car went in and landed on its roof, and that the rescuers flipped it upright to get the kids out. I'm sure that was before the AP photographers got to the scene.
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Another link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/01/utah-river-rescue-bystand_n_1178931.html
A Glock saves the day. To think how many people talk trash about Glocks!
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The story specifically mentions that he pushed the gun up onto the glass, so it sounds like he was smart enough to get some water in the barrel before pulling the trigger
???
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Compressed air.
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Another link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/01/utah-river-rescue-bystand_n_1178931.html
A Glock saves the day. To think how many people talk trash about Glocks!
Are other guns unable to do this?
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Are other guns unable to do this?
Springfield tried to replicate the Glock but gave in to political correctness and put too many so called safeties on it, so,NO ... :cool:
Glock, underwater or out of time or late for work - the wonder gun that does it all!
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Springfield tried to replicate the Glock but gave in to political correctness and put too many so called safeties on it, so,NO ... :cool:
I call BS on that......the XD puts the safety right where it should be....and has a better trigger to boot....
....if the trooper had an XD, it would have broken the window, swam the kids to safety, and given them CPR and hot cocoa, too....
=D
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The article said the car went in and landed on its roof, and that the rescuers flipped it upright to get the kids out. I'm sure that was before the AP photographers got to the scene.
I couldn't find that. All I saw was that they turned it upright, which doesn't really clear up how it came to rest. But my point is only that I can imagine the driver getting out and still not being able to get his kids out the same window.
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Well, yeah! As long as you can fit through the window, can get in position to get out the window, and remember to roll down the window as you are going off the road into the water to begin with.
stay safe.
A Glock can do all that and more!
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Obviously the window was not shot out. The Glock just got real close to the window and whispered the secret of how to spontaneously blow up.
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If you roll down the window, you should have an exit without having to wait for the car to fill up. Just sayin.
If you can get yourself out through the torrent of water coming in through the window...
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Electric window up/down thingy motor + water = maybe not so much.
Mythbusters tested that (opening a car door/window during submersion) not too long ago, and IIRC, the electric windows operated even after the car came to rest on the bottom, completely filled with water. Motor couldn't open against the delta-p before the passenger compartment was full, though, so either you got it a good ways open before you were underwater or you waited until filling was complete.
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Guns - is there anything they can't do? =)
Fire themselves. :angel:
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Mythbusters tested that (opening a car door/window during submersion) not too long ago, and IIRC, the electric windows operated even after the car came to rest on the bottom, completely filled with water. Motor couldn't open against the delta-p before the passenger compartment was full, though, so either you got it a good ways open before you were underwater or you waited until filling was complete.
Interesting. I would have figured that once the battery and electronics were submerged, that would be it. But I guess maybe at <33 feet, weatherproofing must be sufficient to prevent water intrusion to the point of failure (I'm assuming Mythbusters tested in shallow water)?
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Interesting. I would have figured that once the battery and electronics were submerged, that would be it. But I guess maybe at <33 feet, weatherproofing must be sufficient to prevent water intrusion to the point of failure (I'm assuming Mythbusters tested in shallow water)?
It was a pool, looked <15 feet deep at most. Car underwent multiple submersions during the test (they tested different ways to get out, so they mounted it on a frame and used a crane to drop it into the pool), and rolled on water entry at least once - part of the test was that it was harder to get out when you're upside down. Adam "died" at least once during testing - he said that he basically panicked as the passenger compartment filled, had trouble getting the seat belt off, and had some other problem I can't remember, all of which conspired to keep him in the car long enough he needed the safety guy's buddy-breather. Panic's a killer.
I suspect that if the car was immersed long enough, the electronics and electrical system would fail - but you've likely got time to use them to get out immediately after entering the water. Minutes, maybe even hours, not seconds.
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All depends on the vehicle and how the electronics are manufactured. When Hurricane Gaston flooded Richmond I lost my Mercedes 640 coupe. I started opening the electronic roof as soon as I saw the water rising around me - lost all power within about 2 seconds as the water went from hubcap deep to over the windowsill in that time. Roof was only 3/4 open - but it was enough to crawl out (thank goodness for Germans who make really large holes in the roof!).
stay safe.
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harder to get out when you're upside down
Seems like it would be easier if you got a window open before you went under.
The water would come in the open window while you still had air near the floor of the car. Would be sorta like a diving bell.
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He also had to cut a seatbelt with his pocketknife.
So in England, Scotland and parts of the American Northeast the kids would be doubly dead.
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He also had to cut a seatbelt with his pocketknife.
So in England, Scotland and parts of the American Northeast the kids would be doubly dead.
You're talking about the police officer? Cops in those parts of the world are not allowed to carry knives, or even purpose-built seatbelt-cutters?
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Don't they have those safety hammers that are supposed to be good for cracking side windows and have that handy razor blade section to cut seat belts?
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You're talking about the police officer? Cops in those parts of the world are not allowed to carry knives, or even purpose-built seatbelt-cutters?
Maybe I misread, but I understood that the guy who shot the window and cut the belt was a "former" LEO. No guns or knives for them in Britain. The New England thing was a gratuitous slam, though Boston has at least fringe types talking about knife control.
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Don't they have those safety hammers that are supposed to be good for cracking side windows and have that handy razor blade section to cut seat belts?
There are worse things to have mounted in your car where you can get at it for your own escape or to aid others.
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Maybe I misread, but I understood that the guy who shot the window and cut the belt was a "former" LEO. No guns or knives for them in Britain. The New England thing was a gratuitous slam, though Boston has at least fringe types talking about knife control.
Oh. You're right about him being a former LEO.
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The electric window thing depends on how it is all wired. If you have a simple 12-volt battery wired to an electric motor with a simple switch, and throw the whole thing in the water, it will work fine. Sure, water is conductive (actually, the ions dissolved in water makes it conductive, pure water is not) but it's not very conductive. Certainly not enough to immediately discharge the battery, or even to compete with the copper wiring as a current path. Eventually the battery would discharge itself, but not for a while. In the meantime, there would be plenty of available current to operate the motor if you closed the circuit.
Contrast that to some sort or fancier semiconductor-controlled circuit that takes low-voltage, low-current signals from window switches and then uses logic to decide to activate relays to run the motors. The actual current to the motor isn't actually travelling through the heavy-duty switch in the door that you are pressing with your finger, just a digital signal. That kind of system is going to get all sorts of confused and probably not work as soon as you toss it in the river.
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....if the trooper had an XD, it would have broken the window, swam the kids to safety, and given them CPR and hot cocoa, too....
Sweet, now I want one. =|