Post by: InfidelSerf on May 18, 2006, 02:21:10 PM
Here is the scenario:
3 lane 65mph highway has a sign saying the left lane will end 1 mile up the road. The highway curves to the left and then a sign states you have so many feet left until it ends (approx. 1/8th mile)
You can't see the end of the lane when you see the first sign.
SO traffic is backed up a bit in the right two lanes and no one is in the left lane. I take the left and maintain a speed of no more than 5mph over the limit. As I'm cruising along this guy in the lane to the right of me sticks his arm out the window and flips me the bird. I shrug it off and continue up the left lane, the highway makes the curve to the left and then I see my opportunity to merge to the right safely and without being pushy to anyone.
A guy in a new Tacoma even blew by me at that time and merged just after the end of the lane. I get up the road about 2 miles to my exit and as I'm sitting in the line of cars I see the bird flipping jackarse in my rear view mirror.
He swerves his car in real tight to me and flips me the bird again.
I know he's the one with the problem... I'm just curious as to what the consensus would be concerning the situation.
Would you feel someone was in the wrong if they chose to use a lane that is going to end? Even though they know they have plenty of road to use the lane and then merge.
Post by: Declaration Day on May 18, 2006, 02:38:31 PM
There is a traffic jam on the freeway, and most people are in the right two lanes because the left one ends soon. Instead of waiting your turn, you jumped ahead by getting in that left lane, drove up to the end of it and cut back in line.
IF that is the case, then I don't blame others for being angry at you. If that is not the case, it seems that those angry drivers thought it was.
Post by: garyk/nm on May 18, 2006, 02:39:17 PM
When the first sign says that the lane is going to end, MOVE OVER!!! If you stay in that lane, after others have merged, you will be seen as a jerk. And if you get blocked out, too bad for you. The reason that the thru-lane slows down, is that the jerks who continue to ride the closed lane have to merge at some point, slowing down all of the good folks who merged when notified.
Post by: Azrael256 on May 18, 2006, 04:02:58 PM
But obscene gestures directed at other drivers are always inappropriate. The horn is for alerting another driver of an impending hazard, and the hand is for inviting another driver to proceed or thanking for a courtesy. All other uses are rude and childish.
Post by: cfabe on May 18, 2006, 04:45:59 PM
Post by: Moondoggie on May 18, 2006, 04:54:33 PM
We normally coordinate via the CB so that one "Hero" slowly blocks traffic in the lane that's still open up to the point of the merge. Another truck will let the "Hero" slide into the lane just ahead of him so that all of the 4 wheelers who were trying to get up to the front are stranded with a solid wall of (pissed-off) cars to contend with.
It's great fun irritating amatuer drivers!
And, yes, what you did sounds like a breach of etiquette.
Post by: Chris on May 18, 2006, 05:13:08 PM
Some of us wheeler types actually appreciate it when you big rigs do this. Heck, I'll let you in front of me when you're done. Then again, I'm also in the habit of flashing y lights at big rigs signalling a lane change in front of me to let me know it's clear to come on over. But that's just me.
Post by: InfidelSerf on May 18, 2006, 05:14:43 PM
This is a permanent design in the road. Not a temporary closure.
Traffic slowdown had more to do with the congestion on the far right exit.
Since the traffic was breaking up after that exit.. which is before the bend in the road.
IE there was plenty of road for the traffic to run 3 lanes wide, and then allow merging for the lane closure.
I will agree that I would have perceived it as wrong, had I been forced to push my way into the merging lane.
And if this was a temporary closure due to construction, an accident or some other irregular blockage.
However since the road is always like that, I don't understand why the rest of the traffic doesn't utilize the 3rd lane further than one mile before the first sign.
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I'm also in the habit of flashing lights at big rigs signalling a lane change in front of me to let me know it's clear to come on over.
I picked up that habit years ago on a trip to LA. That being a good protocol, how do most of you feel about flashing your brights when in the fast lane upon coming up on someone going slower in the fast lane? I know that's a common practice in the EU.
But it seems here it's perceived as rude.
Personally I think it rather rude to do the speed limit or slower in the far left lane, if the lane to the right is open.
Still interested in more opinions.
Post by: BozemanMT on May 18, 2006, 05:19:44 PM
you did it right
american's can't merge to save their life
go all the way to end (or close enough) and then merge (you go, i go, you go, i go)
otherwise the middle lane becomes all backed up.
the guy is just angry cuz he was too stupid to pick the right lane.
You did it right. You were legally in your lane and merged over.
No foul
Post by: bratch on May 18, 2006, 05:37:37 PM
I would avoid flashing my lights at people in front of me. I often run 5-7 miles over the limit in the "fast" lane. For some people this isn't fast enough I usually get over but when they run up on my butt or if someone ever flashed lights at me there is no way in hell I'm moving.
Post by: grampster on May 18, 2006, 06:11:39 PM
I won't let someone doing what you did to merge if I perceive you are trying to use the ending lane to get ahead of the pack.
Post by: jefnvk on May 18, 2006, 06:24:58 PM
Post by: Art Eatman on May 18, 2006, 07:52:08 PM
Shooting the bird and all that is stupid and easily can lead to serious trouble. That guy was terminal wrong.
Art
Post by: Perd Hapley on May 18, 2006, 08:18:40 PM
Quote from: Azrael256
But obscene gestures directed at other drivers are always inappropriate. The horn is for alerting another driver of an impending hazard, and the hand is for inviting another driver to proceed or thanking for a courtesy. All other uses are rude and childish.
Quite. I also use my horn when people fail to signal before crossing into the lane in front of me. This is meant as a reprimand, more than as a warning. It is not done in anger. OK, sometimes in anger. Happens about fifty percent of the time around here.Why is it dangerous to pass in the right lane on a four-lane highway (two lanes each way)? I have never understood the great danger here. Who in their right mind is not going to check the lane before moving into it?
Also, is it not true that on urban freeways, the right lane should be reserved for those immediately entering or exiting the freeway?
Post by: Old Fud on May 18, 2006, 10:58:12 PM
The highway builders, in their wisdom, have laid down concrete.
Say it's three lanes wide, and labelled as such. You are entitled to drive on all 3.
At some point, it will be reduced to two.
You are entitled (AND EXPECTED) to drive on the marked lanes of concrete.
I have never understood those eager-beavers who instantly jump out of a perfectly good lane at first notice leaving nearly a mile of clear concrete and then get mad at people who continue to use the highway that has been built for them to use.
Most people will come down an ON-RAMP and follow the marked lines until they merge and expect to zipper at that point.
But many of the same dunder-heads as above leap into the first thru-lane at earliest opportunity and then get mad at those who use the pavement provided for the purpose.
Common sense is not a breach of etiquette.
Fud
Post by: Azrael256 on May 18, 2006, 11:46:46 PM
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The highway builders, in their wisdom, have laid down concrete.
True, but they have laid it down with a variety of conditions in mind. The highway is meant to be used in a variety of weather conditions and with varying levels of traffic. Etiquette is most important in adverse weather and traffic conditions. I don't jump right off into the remaining lanes the instant I discover that my lane is ending. I use the remaining roadway to find an appropriate place to merge into the next lane.
Post by: ...has left the building. on May 19, 2006, 02:38:48 AM
Take the autobahn for example, a car in the left lane sees headlights in the distance that are all of a sudden right on their bumper...they move over because clearly they are blocking the other driver. In America, you'd get somebody who would get all fired up and stay in the left lane indefinitely to "teach the other driver a lesson". American drivers are very rude IMO because they believe their own standards of speed should be applied to everyone around them.
Post by: TarpleyG on May 19, 2006, 03:28:25 AM
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Why is it dangerous to pass in the right lane on a four-lane highway (two lanes each way)? I have never understood the great danger here. Who in their right mind is not going to check the lane before moving into it?
I think this is a throwback to those days when cars only had a side-view mirror on the driver's side of the car.FWIW, I hate it when people do what you did, especially if it appears intentional. We get jackaninnies here doing it all the time and it really screws up the flow because no one knows the proper merge ettiquette. Maybe if they did it wouldn't be such a problem.
Greg
Post by: bermbuster on May 19, 2006, 03:28:35 AM
Quote from: cas700850
Moondoggie,
Some of us wheeler types actually appreciate it when you big rigs do this. Heck, I'll let you in front of me when you're done. Then again, I'm also in the habit of flashing y lights at big rigs signalling a lane change in front of me to let me know it's clear to come on over. But that's just me.
I flash my lights too to signal to a truck that I am slowing to let him/her over. Usually I get a light-flash back as a "thanks." I try to be real careful around those folks. I drove a big rental truck (the biggest you could rent without a commercial license) from SC to MA once and I came to a new level of appreciation for folks who do that for a living. When they say, "If you can't see my mirrors I can't see you," they mean it. Drivers do crazy things.Some of us wheeler types actually appreciate it when you big rigs do this. Heck, I'll let you in front of me when you're done. Then again, I'm also in the habit of flashing y lights at big rigs signalling a lane change in front of me to let me know it's clear to come on over. But that's just me.
And, yes, flipping people off is always rude.
Post by: grampster on May 19, 2006, 06:14:01 AM
Frankly, this is one of my pet peeves. I'll straddle a lane marking so that someone coming up from behind trying to beat the pack can't pass. I've noticed I'm not the only one who does this. Nothing makes me feel better to see one of these gibronies have to stop and go nowhere because no one will let them in. Sometime's driving is fun.
Post by: Art Eatman on May 19, 2006, 06:15:34 AM
I dunno. For some 40 years, now, I've been driving some 25,000 to 40,000 miles a year. I've built and driven street machinery to 150 mph. But maybe that's not enough experience that my judgement has any value...
Art
Post by: grampster on May 19, 2006, 06:34:30 AM
We just come from slower times. "Don't hurry, don't worry, and don't forget to smell the flowers along the way." Walter Hagen, professional golfer.
Post by: Firethorn on May 19, 2006, 07:56:45 AM
Quote from: TarpleyG
I think this is a throwback to those days when cars only had a side-view mirror on the driver's side of the car.
FWIW, I hate it when people do what you did, especially if it appears intentional. We get jackaninnies here doing it all the time and it really screws up the flow because no one knows the proper merge ettiquette. Maybe if they did it wouldn't be such a problem.
Greg
Not necessarily dangerous to pass on the right, but it promotes 'weaving', where the faster cars are constantly switching left and right to move around the slower ones. If the slower ones keep right, the faster left, then you have fewer total lane changes. Also, if you have slow in the right, fast in the left, but an even faster approaching (on the left), if the fast temorarily moves left, you eliminate the need for a gap on the right large enough for the fastest to: move right while keeping gaps, pass the fast(but not fast enough) car, then merge left again. If the fast car simply moves right and maintains, it can be done with a third of the length.FWIW, I hate it when people do what you did, especially if it appears intentional. We get jackaninnies here doing it all the time and it really screws up the flow because no one knows the proper merge ettiquette. Maybe if they did it wouldn't be such a problem.
Greg
And yeah, when I see lane closing signs, I look for a safe merge. I'm not going to worry about moving over immediatly, but I'm not going to hang around to the end either.
Post by: Firethorn on May 19, 2006, 12:36:24 PM
Quote from: Blackburn
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If the slower ones keep right, the faster left, then you have fewer total lane changes.
That might make moving over for an exit tricky.Besides, if you're on a highway you're usually traveling longer distances. Making a concession of what's usually less than a mile to get to your exit isn't that big of a deal. It also means that faster traffic doesn't have to immediately deal with slower merging cars from onramps.
Post by: ...has left the building. on May 19, 2006, 01:34:15 PM
Quote from: grampster
The idea behind a sign advising the lane is ending or closed is to let folks know that one needs to exit that lane soon. The signs are placed at an appropriate distance to allow the merging to begin when one sees the sign. Those folks who continue in that lane, having no intention of merging until the last minute, cause traffic problems because at reaching the end point they have to merge or stop. This causes the whole pack to slow down or stop. Once that happens the "freight train" effect occurs. You can have backups several miles long because one or a couple people try and take advantage of getting ahead of the pack. How many times have any of you been caught in a long line of creeping cars for several miles and when traffic begins to move again, there was no apparent reason for the slow down? Well, all it took, again, were a couple of people who caused the line to slow or stop to let them in at the lane ending because they refused to merge when first warned of the impending lane ending..
Frankly, this is one of my pet peeves. I'll straddle a lane marking so that someone coming up from behind trying to beat the pack can't pass. I've noticed I'm not the only one who does this. Nothing makes me feel better to see one of these gibronies have to stop and go nowhere because no one will let them in. Sometime's driving is fun.
grampster,Frankly, this is one of my pet peeves. I'll straddle a lane marking so that someone coming up from behind trying to beat the pack can't pass. I've noticed I'm not the only one who does this. Nothing makes me feel better to see one of these gibronies have to stop and go nowhere because no one will let them in. Sometime's driving is fun.
I would agree but if he does not hinder anyone's progress on the lane switch, I don't see what he did wrong. I think it is far more distasteful to slow down at the first hint of a "Lane Ends" sign and forcing the lane to the right to let you in. I'd rather make a run for daylight if I can do it at a safe speed and not get in anyone's way.
I understand what you mean about them being another factor in a traffic jam but the fact of the matter is that they will have to merge and be in front of someone. That someone just better not be me right?
That idea is only slightly less selfish as people who go 25 mph over the speed limit in the left lane then cut people off when it ends.Edited because I do not know my right from my left
Post by: gunsmith on May 19, 2006, 02:43:33 PM
I stay in the right untill a spot opens up but sometimes you get the guy who is an anal retentive dirtbag
who wants to go slower then the posted speed limit in what is becoming the fast lane. I will pass that guy if I can.
People who block the fastlane should be tourtured then executed and hung from freeway overpasses
as a warning to others, besides they are mostly pro guncontrol lefty nitwits anyway
Post by: InfidelSerf on May 19, 2006, 03:10:16 PM
However given the situation. I can see further down the road (since the left lane I'm in is empty) I can see a safe merge ahead of the flow of the traffic to my right WITHOUT speeding up or doing anything out of the ordinary. **
To me my decision to continue up the lane and take the merge further up the road (well within a safe distance to merge) actually HELPS the flow of traffic and maintains the entire momentum. If I were to decide to get over the instant I see the sign I would have to slow down and actually push my way in.
How is that being more polite and safer?
Quote
And yeah, when I see lane closing signs, I look for a safe merge. I'm not going to worry about moving over immediatly, but I'm not going to hang around to the end either.
I concur** one of my pet peeves is yo-yo drivers. I use the cruise control for about 75% of my driving. It amazes me how people will speed up and slow down all around me.
Post by: InfidelSerf on May 19, 2006, 03:35:54 PM
The first sign says 3/4mile.
As you can see in the next to last image, there is PLENTY of lane left to make a safe merge even after the bend in the road.
Post by: grampster on May 19, 2006, 04:29:40 PM
Don't misunderstand me. I'm not necessarily snotting on you for your decision. You asked a question and you received a number of answers. My gripe is with people who either are off in la la land and never see the multiple signs advising a merge and suddenly start pushing and shoving their way into the other lanes down the line because they suddenly became sentient, or are folks who are too impatient or self important and try and put as much distance on the rest of the pack as they can, thus causing a problem near the lane end which fouls up the lives of, well, everyone. I just have this problem with folks who seem to think that the air that they breathe is somehow more pure than the rest of us, or are terminally stupid and unobservant.
PS: The lane you are talking about usually is sans vehicles because 98% of the drivers out there are driving defensively and are observing a modicum of courtesy to their fellows and have moved out of it. It's not open to gain ground, its open because it's shortly not going to be of any use and if one stays in it, one will become an a**h**** as a result. With all due respect, sir. I do value you and your contributions. I'm not trying to be Mike.
Post by: garyk/nm on May 19, 2006, 06:10:18 PM
Grampster, + 1001.
The ones I especially love are the ones who, when seeing that the closing lane is relatively clear, jump out of the through lane and attempt to leapfrog the rest of us. For them, I have no mercy at all. I have run several off of the road and, no, I don't feel the least bit bad about it. Public service, and all that. Somebody needs to teach the idiots some manners, and if the idiots happen to get hurt in the process, well, no one said stupid wasn't painful.
The guy in the ricer Honda who tried to duck in front of me (full sized truck + car hauler loaded with 3000lb race car,momentum is a wondrous thing) and gut punted way out into the tule weeds will certainly have 2nd thoughts before trying that again!
Does that clearly express how I feel about folks who pull such stuff?
Tolerant? No. Borderline psycho? Maybe.
Post by: InfidelSerf on May 19, 2006, 06:34:12 PM
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jump out of the through lane and attempt to leapfrog the rest of us.
gary I agree with you as well. leapfrogging everyone is rude.Had I been behind the guy and then decided to get in that lane in order to pass him (assuming he's maintaining traffic flow speed) I would consider myself a jackarse.
As a general rule I'm a patient and curteous driver. Which is what prompted me to pose the question in the first place.
As a curteous and patient driver I didn't see anything wrong with that particular situation. Since the 3/4 mile notice is just that.. notice to get over. They didn't put a sign further back saying lane closes 3 miles up the road for a reason. Since I was already in that lane, and saw the safe merge opportunity up the road, I didn't see anything rude or wrong with merging at the point of my discretion.
Obviously based on the guys attitude and his attempt to sideswipe me, he is the true jackarse.
gary I do however completely disagree with you thinking it's ok to cause a wreck on grounds that it's somehow a moral lesson to the person flying off into the ditch.
While I am right there with you in spirit. To actually push a person off the road, you've just crossed the line and placed yourself on their level.
To me that's like saying all _____should die. While I might agree that the world would be better off if ____ were dead. I certainly would not condone actually killing ____.
Post by: Art Eatman on May 19, 2006, 08:05:04 PM
Blackburn, now you know why God invented turn signals, rear view mirrors and Mark I eyeballs.
Art
Post by: S_O_Laban on May 19, 2006, 09:19:59 PM
How is using the potential lethal force of a car, to "teach someone a lesson"..... any different than brandishing a gun, to "teach someone a lesson?"
The're both wrong.