Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Balog on January 24, 2012, 02:52:49 AM
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In an effort to A. not spend large amounts of time arguing with people on the internet & B. not get inordinately angry at stupid people on the internet, I'm trying to avoid posting in political threads here and elsewhere. But, that admirable self restraint is creaking under the influence of foolish people making silly arguments. So, as a way of venting without becoming embroiled in the online equivalent of a land war in Asia, here are my thoughts on this political season.
GOP primaries: it's currently a four man race, and I'll get to the candidates in a second. But first, can I just say that a great argument for the Republicans being unqualified to govern is the idiotic way they go about choosing a candidate. It's like they are trying to find a way to best ensure the eventual nominee is the least conservative. The Democrats assume that minorities, union workers, .gov sector workers etc will always vote for them no matter who they put up. The GOP assumes the same about everyone else. Why is that?
For all the big talk, the vast majority of all poli-critters both R & D are just that: career politicians who make bank playing both sides against the middle but who would never intentionally kill the golden goose and shrink Leviathan.
Speaking of career poli-critters, let's look at the candidates.
Mitt Romney.
Pros: nice family, fancy hair, appeals to the sort of "conservatives" who work at MSNBC and the NY Times, polls great with NorthEastern Ivy League credentialists, anointed the Chosen One by the Good Ole Boys club of the Republican establishment machine, and is enough of a moral vacuum we might be able to pressure him into not being totally evil.
Cons: flips more than a dolphin at Sea World, most easily told apart from John Kerry by his lack of military service, loathed by the majority of the GOP base, passed the bill that was the model for Obama Care (and continues to defend it, the one thing he hasn't flip-flopped on), lies about having been on all sides of every major issue, is the perfect caricature of the out of it rich white guy scamming the system for Obama to run against, very pro big fed.gov just wants to run it more efficiently, connects with the voters about as well as Daleks connect with the Doctor, and may not be able to pass a Turing test.
Newt Gingrich.
Pros: good at laying the smack down in debates, certainly knows how to play the game in DC, we might get moon colonies!, is sometimes honest about his flip flops, and appeals to the national sense of "honestly repent and you can get a second chance."
Cons: very pro big government as long as he's able to run it, egomaniacal narcissist, enough baggage to ballast the Titanic, generally slimy and as crazy as the media always claims Ron Paul is.
Rick Santorum.
Pros: appeals to social conservatives, great pro life record, and draws the most sympathy for the media attacking him unfairly (ie the google problem and attacking the way he mourned his dead son).
Cons: the google problem, massive authoritarian streak (even if it is wildly exaggerated by the media), strongest on the issues that are least important to many people this cycle.
Ron Paul.
Pros: the only candidate who isn't a vile and loathsome excuse for a human being, the sort of zealot True Believer who isn't just working the system to gain power, %95 of his positions fire up the base and resonate with libertarians as well as both social and fiscal conservatives, the only candidate who would actually reduce the size and scope of fed.gov instead of slowing growth slightly and calling it a cut.
Cons: comes off like a crazy old man, attracts hordes of fanatics who turn undecided folks off by their very rabidness, that %5 makes a lot of people hate him on a gut level, both the "conservative" and liberal media are on a 24/7 smear campaign, knows he won't get the nomination and is just trying to get enough influence to steer the party libertarian and set up his son for a later run, and would most likely be assassinated if he actually won the presidency.
So, tl:dr I hate all of the candidates with a realistic shot at winning the nomination. So, will I be holding my nose and voting "Anybody but Obama"?
Here are my thoughts on that. We, as a nation, have reached critical mass. We are officially past the tipping point where we can muddle along and pretend like borrowing ever larger amounts of money to fund every more inclusive socialism is sustainable. The country is bankrupt, and we'll collapse unless very drastic measures are taken and soon. None of the remaining candidates but RP would do anything even beginning to resemble that, and as I said even Ron Paul knows he won't be getting the nod. Still, any of the R's would at least destroy the country slightly more slowly right? I don't think so, and we really only need to look at Bush the Younger and Clinton to see why.
Remember when I said most poli-critters don't want to change the status quo or shrink fed.gov? When we had the House, Senate, and Presidency government exploded. Both invasive expansion of the police state (Patriot Act, Homeland Security) and increasing welfare and social meddling (Medicare Part D and No Child Left Behind) as well as horrific Constitutional violations like McCain Feingold (which Bush explicitly stated he thought was unConstitutional, just before signing it) were the name of the game. Since most politicians want to expand the fed.gov, and most politicians vote along party lines most of the time we can see that the PotUS being aligned with majorities in the Legislative branch makes things worse. But look at Clinton: horrid President but a R Congress fighting him tooth and nail actually managed to make some small gains.
I honestly think a strongly Tea Party Congress paired with the proven ineffectual Obama would do the least damage to the country. But I don't believe we'll get that sort of Congress.
Alexis de Tocqueville says it all in my opinion.
“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.”
―Democracy in America
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years.”
“America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great.”
America doesn't have a governmental problem. America has a societal problem, and the government reflects that. Americans are getting the government they deserve, good and hard. And if you don't believe national character makes a difference, look at the EU. What separates Germany from the PIIGS? Not natural resources or opportunity, but culture.
And above all else ours is a culture that venerates two things. Finding pleasure, and escaping consequences for your actions. We've incurred a level of debt (both at all levels of .gov and in housing/student loans/personal credit) that is literally unprecedented in history. We want all the toys and we don't want to wait. We've devalued the family by encouraging extended adolescence, vilifying responsibility, attacking men for being masculine and women for being feminine, and trying to divorce sex from relationship.
America has slaughtered 50,000,000 innocent children on the alter of avoiding the consequences of our actions. Our genocide is more bloody by far than the Nazis, and we did it not on the grounds of saving the species or necessity but out of convenience. How can a society like that survive?
It can't. If there is to be any hope of avoiding the on coming Dark Ages, it lies in a revolution of culture not of government. DC is a vile, rotten swamp not because it stands in opposition to our character, but because it reflects it. God help us all.
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OK. I take it you like Ron Paul. Lets say he was elected president. Just what could he do? What change could get start?
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If there is to be any hope of avoiding the on coming Dark Ages, it lies in a revolution of culture not of government. DC is a vile, rotten swamp not because it stands in opposition to our character, but because it reflects it. God help us all.
QFT.
If the culture changes, the government will follow.
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OK. I take it you like Ron Paul. Lets say he was elected president. Just what could he do? What change could get start?
We've dealt with it, and dealt with it, and dealt with it over and over again. Is the answer Ron Paul supporters in this forum provided the last three times somehow wrong? Then address why.
[I will respectfully agree to disagree with Balog about most everything he wrote except for my view that RP is the best candidate.]
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[Rant]
I think I agree with all of that.
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OK. I take it you like Ron Paul. Lets say he was elected president. Just what could he do? What change could get start?
His overall point seems to be that the culture is too far gone to be saved by any one man. We must change ourselves in order to change Washington.
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OK. I take it you like Ron Paul. Lets say he was elected president. Just what could he do? What change could get start?
Did you READ the original post?
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I think I agree with all of that.
I think I agree with most of that. I don't think Gingrich is as bad as Balog makes him out and I don't think Paul is as pure as the wind-driven snow.
However, I quite agree the culture is the problem and the government isn't the solution. America, quite literally, needs a "come to Jesus" moment.
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I think I agree with most of that. I don't think Gingrich is as bad as Balog makes him out and I don't think Paul is as pure as the wind-driven snow.
However, I quite agree the culture is the problem and the government isn't the solution. America, quite literally, needs a "come to Jesus" moment.
Gingrich is worse than Balog describes and I'd say Paul is, too.
Balog is right in that the culture has degenerated. How can we be surprised when the gov't follows society into the gutter?
The central conundrum of liberty is that it can only exist when people impose discipline on their own selves...and these last few decades have shown a marked degeneration in self-discipline.
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Rick Santorum.
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massive authoritarian streak (even if it is wildly exaggerated by the media),
I don't believe that it is exaggerated at all.
He has publicly stated something to the effect of "America is all about imposing your values on the people" :mad:
Ron Paul ... would most likely be assassinated if he actually won the presidency
You are optimistic. He won't live till the convention unless he gets trounced in the remaining primaries. =(
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Edited by author due to not having enough coffee (and other reasons) :facepalm: :'(
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He's talking about abortion, not war.
You missing that connection, and your subsequent post, makes for a HILARIOUS read. LOL
MURRICA!
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He's talking about abortion, not war.
You missing that connection, and your subsequent post, makes for a HILARIOUS read. LOL
OK, :facepalm:
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OK, :facepalm:
Awwww, why'd you delete it? It was so very entertaining! >:D
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Awwww, why'd you delete it? It was so very entertaining! >:D
Because it is not my purpose on this forum to provide comic relief to the jackwagons of the world. :mad:
Friggin' coffee turned out to be caffiene-free........................ :facepalm:
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Because it is not my purpose on this forum to provide comic relief to the jackwagons of the world. :mad:
Friggin' coffee turned out to be caffiene-free........................ :facepalm:
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reactionface.info%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fimages%2F1310566609761.jpg&hash=31b5d6dc5fb3dc21705a97a1e8b8581cc8f803c0)
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I'm happy the jackwagons remain amused..............
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Calm down.
Also, what reason have I given you for the name calling?
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I think I agree with most of that. I don't think Gingrich is as bad as Balog makes him out and I don't think Paul is as pure as the wind-driven snow.
However, I quite agree the culture is the problem and the government isn't the solution. America, quite literally, needs a "come to Jesus" moment.
I don't think Paul is pure and perfect. I just think his basic motivation is not a desire to accumulate personal wealth and power. And that makes him unique in this field imho.
Balog is right in that the culture has degenerated. How can we be surprised when the gov't follows society into the gutter?
The central conundrum of liberty is that it can only exist when people impose discipline on their own selves...and these last few decades have shown a marked degeneration in self-discipline.
Pretty much, yeah.
[I will respectfully agree to disagree with Balog about most everything he wrote except for my view that RP is the best candidate.]
I appreciate that. We've had those discussions enough to know it's unlikely we're going to change the other persons mind, and I honestly do like and respect you in spite of ideological differences. So easy to set up the circular firing squad these days...
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[I don't think Paul is pure and perfect. I just think his basic motivation is not a desire to accumulate personal wealth and power. And that makes him unique in this field imho.
/quote]
He already has wealth, and his refusal to say what most people want to hear proves that he doesn't desire power.
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He already has wealth, and his refusal to say what most people want to hear proves that he doesn't desire power.
Quite the contrary. As you point out he already has wealth. I'm quite sure he wants power. He wants the power to implement HIS agenda, just as the other candidates do.
You don't get to implement your agenda by saying only what people want to hear. You have to lay out your own agenda and convince the people to accept it.
You are attributing negative motives to the other candidates and positive motives to Ron Paul because you agree with his agenda. Unless you think ALL the other candidates are being disingenuous about their positions (and I'll grant you I believe Romney is), then his motivations are no more pure nor more base than the rest. You just agree with his objectives.
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Glad to see you've come over to the dark side. Yes, "it's the culture, stupid!" We have good people, the question is do we have enough?
You don't change a culture that has reached this point of toxic no-return; you excise it--if you want to survive.
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You don't change a culture that has reached this point of toxic no-return; you excise it--if you want to survive.
I highly suspect I would be one of those you'd like to excise. If so, I wish you good fortune.
I think America will last longer than folks think. But every country is mortal. They are born, they live, and eventually they grow old. I believe we can turn the country around, but will not do so. Too much short sighted perspective, which I believe is the true problem. The inability to plan for the future.
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No Rev, you're white so he'd probably be fine with you.
And I agree, the problem is a short sighted focus on now. People seem unable to think logically about the consequences of their actions and beliefs.
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Too much short sighted perspective, which I believe is the true problem. The inability to plan for the future.
Agreed. I personally believe an element of strong character to be the ability to defer gratification.
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No Rev, you're white so he'd probably be fine with you.
And I agree, the problem is a short sighted focus on now. People seem unable to think logically about the consequences of their actions and beliefs.
A cheap shot like that suits you, Balog. Too bad it took you 1400 words to say what an astute man would say in a hundred.
The trouble with you and some others on this forum is that they refuse to go the next step; you just keep bouncing off the wall of your own conceptual limitations. You call our nation escapist and irresponsible, but you don't tell us what we might do about it. My advice is to gather up the people who still believe in the Founders' principles and create another polity around them. When I say "excise" I mean separate, though even RevDisk is smart enough to know that; he's just being a snarky little fellow.
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What could Paul actually do, if elected, to change things. The president isn't the alpha / omega. He must work through and with Congress. Congress is where the power is and is where the most corruption is.
My vote is simple, ABO. Don't care if the Republican Nominee is a 3 peckered goat from Uranus.
My question still remains: what could Ron Paul do to change the direction of this country. Be realistic.
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....Don't care if the Republican Nominee is a 3 peckered goat from Uranus.........
That might actually be an improvement on the choices we have if it can express a coherent thought. >:D
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What could Paul actually do, if elected, to change things. The president isn't the alpha / omega. He must work through and with Congress. Congress is where the power is and is where the most corruption is.
My vote is simple, ABO. Don't care if the Republican Nominee is a 3 peckered goat from Uranus.
My question still remains: what could Ron Paul do to change the direction of this country. Be realistic.
It's not JUST ron paul. It's Ron paul in conjunction with the CONTINUED struggle to get constitution-respecting folks in congress.
Which HAS been happening.
Pieces in the puzzle. Rome wasn't built in a day.
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The difference is that when we created this country and built it on a Constitution we had a very different culture than the one we have now and quite a different demographic. Balog himself noted where we've arrived as a people.
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You're being intellectually dishonest longeyes. Also making cheap personal attacks, but that's beside the point.
You constantly preach about the upcoming civil war. You just as consistently talk about the endemic threat of illegal immigration, as a primary issue. In general, you cloak yourself in swirling generalities and refuse to be pinned down on exactly what you think except in the most vague way.
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What could Paul actually do, if elected, to change things. The president isn't the alpha / omega. He must work through and with Congress. Congress is where the power is and is where the most corruption is.
My vote is simple, ABO. Don't care if the Republican Nominee is a 3 peckered goat from Uranus.
My question still remains: what could Ron Paul do to change the direction of this country. Be realistic.
Its called a veto pen. And then, there is all those pesky executive orders that need to be rescinded.
And as the elected leader of the GOP, they'd have more incentive to play ball with him.
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Its called a veto pen. And then, there is all those pesky executive orders that need to be rescinded.
And as the elected leader of the GOP, they'd have more incentive to play ball with him.
Yes he can veto and rescind EO,s. But I doubt the Republicans would have any incentive to work with him. Republicans are as corrupt as Democrats, only difference is the speed that the hand basket to hell is traveling at.
The solution IMO, is get rid of the career politicians. Once you hold elected office, once your term is up, you leave and are never able to run for any elected office for the rest of your life nor be eligible to serve in any appointed position within a government. This applies to elected offices of Local, State, and Federal
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The solution IMO, is get rid of the career politicians. Once you hold elected office, once your term is up, you leave and are never able to run for any elected office for the rest of your life nor be eligible to serve in any appointed position within a government. This applies to elected offices of Local, State, and Federal
Uh, yeah, cause that's something that stands a good chance of being implemented.
Oh, wait; no. President Paul will sign his entire agenda into law before that happens.
Personally, I'd prefer to allow people to re-elect politicians they feel are doing a good job. I'd just like to see any pensions or health care eliminated, so there's less incentive for politicians to make a career out of it. I don't see Congress supporting that idea, either, of course.
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Paul's agenda stands the same chance of happening as getting rid of career politicians. IOW, not going to happen.
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You're being intellectually dishonest longeyes. Also making cheap personal attacks, but that's beside the point.
You constantly preach about the upcoming civil war. You just as consistently talk about the endemic threat of illegal immigration, as a primary issue. In general, you cloak yourself in swirling generalities and refuse to be pinned down on exactly what you think except in the most vague way.
Okay, pal, I'll stoop to conquer. You implied I was a racist. That was a personal attack, initiated by you. I merely responded to it and called you out on it.
I don't cloak myself in swirling generalities. You want me to lay out the exact scenario of civil war and/or secession for you? My point, as before, is that there is no viable way to unite a nation that is, even by your conclusions (with which I largely agree), given the current culture and demographics. Unity at this juncture would mean a de facto surrender to the current trend, which conduces to socialism (or worse). To me all that leads us inescapably to some initiative that includes secession, quasi-autonomous regions, and/or much greater states' rights. If there's another way to preserve political liberty, please tell me, in specifics, what that would entail. Yes, I consider unchecked illegal immigration to be a profound existential threat to our values and culture. Nothing vague about that either. What else do you want me to say?
The irony here is that you and I actually agree on most things, though it seems to pain you to acknowledge this. I can't speak to why. Go in peace.
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Personally, I'd prefer to allow people to re-elect politicians they feel are doing a good job.
I... agree with fistful.
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And I agree, the problem is a short sighted focus on now. People seem unable to think logically about the consequences of their actions and beliefs.
Basically. Don't get me wrong, I'm not an idiot to believe you can boil something so complex down to a thousand variables, let alone one.
I just have noticed a common trend of looking at short term solutions or practices often at great long term harm. Pretty much everywhere. Some of it is just "I want what I can get NOW and I don't care what happens after I am gone." Some of it is instant gratification. But mostly it is just a mindframe. People don't seem inclined to incorporate long term strategy into short term action. Yes, do whatever is required in the short term, but keep in mind how the short term eventually becomes the long term.
Yes, folks don't think about consequences. But this is more about planning and strategy as much as it is ignoring consequences.
Folks that gripe about "kids today are all about instant gratification" are ignoring the fact that everyone of all ages do the same thing. Just in different ways. AARP is one of the driving forces of government deficit spending, because their membership is geared towards the mentality of "I'll likely be dead in 20 years, so what do I care?" It isn't to knock old people specifically, just pointing out that this seems to be an age independent issue.
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I... agree with fistful.
I know... It's a weird feeling when it happens, but it does happen every so often.
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Of course kids are all about instant gratification and always have been, but in the past reality intruded quite a bit more than today, fantasy had not replaced reality so entirely, and kids weren't 45 years old. To deny what has happened to our culture in the last half-century is naive and self-deluding.
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I will respectfully agree to disagree with Balog about most everything he wrote except for my view that RP is the best candidate.
??? You don't think it's culture?
OK. I take it you like Ron Paul. Lets say he was elected president. Just what could he do? What change could get start?
I think the big thing is if he got elected it would be more of a sign of things possibly going for the better. It's not like he could just snap his fingers and we would be in Libertarian Land. It's also not like he wouldn't be able to do anything. I believe there would be great strides made towards a smaller government if he was elected president.
My advice is to gather up the people who still believe in the Founders' principles and create another polity around them.
You mean like The Free State Project? Frankly I think it is a good idea, but believe that like what others believe in that they should of chose some place like Montana
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The Free State Project is one of many things we should try. You have to build a quorum of like-minded people.
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Actually, never mind. I really need to stop arguing with people on the internet...
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Where's the fun in that? Quitter. [popcorn]
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Of course kids are all about instant gratification and always have been, but in the past reality intruded quite a bit more than today, fantasy had not replaced reality so entirely, and kids weren't 45 years old. To deny what has happened to our culture in the last half-century is naive and self-deluding.
People are all about instant (or near-instant) gratification and always have been. Reality intrudes now just about as much as ever.
Actually, never mind. I really need to stop arguing with people on the internet...
Basically, yea. People rarely change their opinion based on information, let alone opinion. It's one thing to have an interesting philosophical discussion, it's another to roll in the mud. Sadly, there is a lot more mud rolling than interesting philosophical discussions. Sadder part, APS is actually better than most of the rest of internet.
Folks always need to keep in mind the whole "polite" thing. I forget my own self time to time.
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No, sir, things are not exactly the same as they were. You might try reading, for example, Amusing Ourselves to Death by Neil Postman. Might enlighten you on a few matters. Our electorate is pretty woeful, in terms of literacy, compared to the mid-19th century. I know in a time of high-speed broadband we don't want to believe this, but it's true. Most middle-class 25-year-olds today have grown up in a perfumed bubble; they are part of the Orthodontic Generation, the ones who mug incessantly for the camera on Facebook, infinitely satisfied with themselves. Call me a cynic, but don't tell me I'm deaf, dumb, and blind; what I say is based on contact, not fantasy. The whole culture conduces to creating young people like this, it's not even their fault, they're just doing what they've been raised to do: Have fun and buy stuff. The irony here is that Balog, who doesn't much care for Longeyes, is echoing what Longeyes has been saying for years now on this very forum. So be it.
I don't want to prolong the awkwardness, but you, RevDisk, went off on a little macho snit with me. I suppose on gun forums this is always lurking in the background. :)
To him I said go in peace, to you I say the same. Let's keep it smart, peaceful, and interesting.
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Longeyes...
I do kind of wonder how many of those middle class kids you actually know.
In some ways, they are ignorent in the realities of life they'e never dealt with, but most do recognize that they've had it good and life in the good 'ol USA is not going to be the same.
They are not stupid. They can see the need for a diffrent way of doing things, they just don't know what it is thanks too their mentors up until now.
Give them a few more years to figure out the lies they were trained to beleive, and the idiocy of OWS, and you may end up suprised.
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Well, since our electorate is largely NOT middle class 25-year-olds, I guess we don't need to be blaming them for the state of our nation.
We are right smack in the middle of a huge mess caused by the older generations that needs addressing right now instead of whining about the upcoming doom of our society due to young slackers. These kids aren't going to be allowed near the wheels of power for another 20+ years anyway.
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Well, since our electorate is largely NOT middle class 25-year-olds, I guess we don't need to be blaming them for the state of our nation.
We are right smack in the middle of a huge mess caused by the older generations that needs addressing right now instead of whining about the upcoming doom of our society due to young slackers. These kids aren't going to be allowed near the wheels of power for another 20+ years anyway.
This is the funniest part of the whole situation to me. I hear things like "All these young folk, blah blah blah, ruining everything, blah blah blah."
Problems come from long before my generation was old enough to walk, let alone vote
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Longeyes...
I do kind of wonder how many of those middle class kids you actually know.
In some ways, they are ignorent in the realities of life they'e never dealt with, but most do recognize that they've had it good and life in the good 'ol USA is not going to be the same.
They are not stupid. They can see the need for a diffrent way of doing things, they just don't know what it is thanks too their mentors up until now.
Give them a few more years to figure out the lies they were trained to beleive, and the idiocy of OWS, and you may end up suprised.
I know enough to feel confident in my view. I didn't say they were a lost cause. But we'll see how they vote come November. I never said they were stupid, just comfortably self-involved...because, so far, they can be. Many of them have parents who have made this detachment from reality possible, even easy. If there's hope it will have to come from them, but they will have to spend a lot of time unlearning what they've learned.
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Well, since our electorate is largely NOT middle class 25-year-olds, I guess we don't need to be blaming them for the state of our nation.
We are right smack in the middle of a huge mess caused by the older generations that needs addressing right now instead of whining about the upcoming doom of our society due to young slackers. These kids aren't going to be allowed near the wheels of power for another 20+ years anyway.
Of course our electorate is not comprised "largely" of 25-yo middle class voters, but they were an important part--along with women, minorities, and the techno-juridical-nobility--of why Obama has pitched his tent in the White House. I'll be happy to be disabused of any notion I have that they still don't really see what's wrong with the guy, even now.
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Of course our electorate is not comprised "largely" of 25-yo middle class voters, but they were an important part--along with women, minorities, and the techno-juridical-nobility--of why Obama has pitched his tent in the White House. I'll be happy to be disabused of any notion I have that they still don't really see what's wrong with the guy, even now.
I think there's a lot of dissatisfaction in that age group. I guess we'll find out soon enough. I hear a lot of the "i can't believe I voted for this guy" in my peer group
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Longeyes...
I do kind of wonder how many of those middle class kids you actually know.
In some ways, they are ignorent in the realities of life they'e never dealt with, but most do recognize that they've had it good and life in the good 'ol USA is not going to be the same.
They are not stupid. They can see the need for a diffrent way of doing things, they just don't know what it is thanks too their mentors up until now.
Give them a few more years to figure out the lies they were trained to beleive, and the idiocy of OWS, and you may end up suprised.
And I do kind of wonder how many of those middle class kids you actually have in your homestead. It's not always pleasant to see uncomfortable truths.
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I think there's a lot of dissatisfaction in that age group. I guess we'll find out soon enough. I hear a lot of the "i can't believe I voted for this guy" in my peer group
That's encouraging. Prove me a curmudgeon. I can live with it.
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That's encouraging. Prove me a curmudgeon. I can live with it.
It's just what I have noticed in my age group. It may not apply nationwide, though i desperately hope it does.
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And I do kind of wonder how many of those middle class kids you actually have in your homestead. It's not always pleasant to see uncomfortable truths.
I think OWS did prove to be evidence of that age group relizing something is very wrong. And they did do something.
Was it the right thing to do? Was it well planned and exacuted? Did it make a whole lot of sense? No. but it still is an idication that they have figured out something is wrong, and they want to DO something about it.
They got the wrong message.
It's like a little kid who wants to say something, but can't quite figure out what they need to say.
And as others have said, it's not my generation that screwed the pooch on this. We were just kids while it all was going down the toliet.
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That's a good summary Balog....although you were pretty kind with the Cons. I'm a little confused as to how the financial situation will improve with Romney, Gingrich, and Santorum once again promising to fix the world's issues. Somehow we can afford $trillions to keep third world crap-holes afloat and "safe", but can't afford to temporarily subsidize American industry, or those who have lost their houses and jobs, till they get on their feet.