Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Balog on January 24, 2012, 12:26:42 PM
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Interesting article. I'd be interested in hearing from our atheist/libertarian/secular humanist type members on this point, as I agree that within a moral framework that holds 1. humans as nothing but matter in motion and 2. violation of contracts and initiation of force as the only moral wrongs there is no cogent argument against it.
http://www.bigthink.com/ideas/41643?page=all
Edit: fixed link, stupid phone cuts off the initial http://www. part
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More importantly; is it disgusting? ;/ [tinfoil] [barf] :facepalm:
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I will admit that in my past, there have been times that I looked afterwards to see if there was a chalk outline around my partner. Not a lot of sound and fury sometimes.
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[popcorn]
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I will admit that in my past, there have been times that I looked afterwards to see if there was a chalk outline around my partner. Not a lot of sound and fury sometimes.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ft2.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AANd9GcR09vDzXxrNc2HdNDmMMqDnyMa43zVSBDZyLiuwnGCIKyx4PnSNXUf75ulQ&hash=9a2e3b0d309b550a4b28e19f2edd7e0f5b673b28)
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To whom does the body belong? If you are the next of kin, then knock yourself out. If you are a part-time mortuary worker getting your freak on with my Grandma, then I say anything you give to Grandma, Grandma gets to keep.
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As an atheist/libertarian, I see the body as property of the deceased, and of the executor of the deceased wishes. If the deceased willed it or the executor lets you.....go for it. But *expletive deleted*ck, that's nasty.
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the question of legality is beyond my ken.
I don't understand why it would be, but, uhhh... To each their own? [barf]
I will say then anyone who wants to get it on with a corpse needs some serious mental help, stat.
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I don't know what is to be gained by it. I mean if you want to have sex with something that just lays there buy a doll.
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(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ft2.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AANd9GcR09vDzXxrNc2HdNDmMMqDnyMa43zVSBDZyLiuwnGCIKyx4PnSNXUf75ulQ&hash=9a2e3b0d309b550a4b28e19f2edd7e0f5b673b28)
In Millcreek's defense, I hear his partner was English.
Otto: I thought Englishmen didn't like women, the way they talk.
Wanda: No. He's straight. He's kinda cute, too, in a pompous sort of way.
Otto: You got the hots for him?
Wanda: I'm not into necrophilia.
Otto: What is this, Hump a Limey Week suddenly?
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the question of legality is beyond my ken.
I'm not sure why you're asking your Ken doll about this. =|
Note to self: don't invite Balog over for dinner. Not sure I like his choice of conversation topics. :P
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I see the body as property of the deceased, and of the executor of the deceased wishes. If the deceased willed it or the executor lets you.....go for it. But *expletive deleted*, that's nasty.
This.
That said, I think that it would be hard for a necrophiliac to have an ample supply of willing "partners."
I suppose there are some marketplace solutions to the supply issue, but it kinda gives me the creepy crawlies.
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Legal/moral or not I'm more interested in the motivations of the perpetrator. I don't think someone that deviant belongs in polite society. We shoot dogs and bears that show a propensity to attack humans.
I mean is there any other human cure for a guy like this? Oh, I highly recommend finding the book on this, weird doesn't begin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Tanzler#Maria_Elena_Milagro_de_Hoyos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Tanzler#Maria_Elena_Milagro_de_Hoyos)
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(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FPL7n1.jpg&hash=72d299d3ffdb4c9be46e7805ab640d68469af695)
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Legal/moral or not I'm more interested in the motivations of the perpetrator. I don't think someone that deviant belongs in polite society. We shoot dogs and bears that show a propensity to attack humans.
I mean is there any other human cure for a guy like this? Oh, I highly recommend finding the book on this, weird doesn't begin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Tanzler#Maria_Elena_Milagro_de_Hoyos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Tanzler#Maria_Elena_Milagro_de_Hoyos)
But who was harmed in the consensual act of porking a corpse? If the sicko gets someone to will them their body post-mortem, and its all consensual....? Consenting LIVING adults do some *expletive deleted*ed up things to each other and we don't shoot them on sight. Maybe someone thinkgs you and your wife enjoy too many positions. Deviant!
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I don't know what is to be gained by it. I mean if you want to have sex with something that just lays there buy a doll.
Or a wife
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Or a wife
You have sex with your wife?
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You have sex with your wife?
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.homepagedaily.com%2Fuploads%2F20090520%2F7ff75d05-ac8c-4e07-89be-6052864b562a%2Fwin-one-internet.jpg&hash=597fc12f8341f96ac01832da479b1ca33cfeae41)
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Note to self: do not party with Balog.
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I admire the willingn ess of the board members to follow their ideas through to their logical conclusion. I really do. It takes far more honesty than many people have these days. I think the leap made in the "If you support anti-necrophilia laws it's only a matter of time before the .gov throws you in jail for trying anal with your wife!!!!" type statements is a bit silly, but overall I'd say the libertarians on the board are very consistent with their beliefs.
That being said, I (just me personally now) think that if you find your line of argumentation leading to the ideal state being one where it is acceptable to bone your grandma's corpse (or sell it to someone down the street to do that to) then I perhaps think it might be time for a re-examination of your political views. But that's just me.
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I admire the willingn ess of the board members to follow their ideas through to their logical conclusion. I really do. It takes far more honesty than many people have these days. I think the leap made in the "If you support anti-necrophilia laws it's only a matter of time before the .gov throws you in jail for trying anal with your wife!!!!" type statements is a bit silly, but overall I'd say the libertarians on the board are very consistent with their beliefs.
That being said, I (just me personally now) think that if you find your line of argumentation leading to the ideal state being one where it is acceptable to bone your grandma's corpse (or sell it to someone down the street to do that to) then I perhaps think it might be time for a re-examination of your political views. But that's just me.
Look, if we take out the moral judgement and look at it logically, then, well, it's not hurting anyone but (we presume, or at least I presume) the person doing the humping.
Which leads to the usually libertarian/wicca stance of "do what you will as long as you don't hurt someone else".
By that logic, with the previously gain consent of the deseased or the consent of those who had a relasionship with the deseased, I guess it shouldn't be illeagle.
On the other hand, since the few folks on this planet who like banging dead people are so few and far between AND have some serious mental issues, I am more then cool with leaving this particular taboo illeagal, along with consesual insest and probably a few other things that I am too innocent to think people would actually do.
Cause its ewwy.
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Note to self: do not party with Balog.
At least, don't pass out. ;)
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At least, don't pass out. ;)
Watch out for roofies.
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I admire the willingn ess of the board members to follow their ideas through to their logical conclusion. I really do. It takes far more honesty than many people have these days. I think the leap made in the "If you support anti-necrophilia laws it's only a matter of time before the .gov throws you in jail for trying anal with your wife!!!!" type statements is a bit silly, but overall I'd say the libertarians on the board are very consistent with their beliefs.
That being said, I (just me personally now) think that if you find your line of argumentation leading to the ideal state being one where it is acceptable to bone your grandma's corpse (or sell it to someone down the street to do that to) then I perhaps think it might be time for a re-examination of your political views. But that's just me.
I'm glad you claim the moral high ground over those around you. I submit to your all-moralness. Please tell me how to think for myself.
People like you are why the human race will never actually be free from each other.
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This is starting to smell like polyticks.
Chris
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This is starting to smell like polyticks.
Chris
It could just be decomposing fleash.
Suprisingly similar, those two...
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That being said, I (just me personally now) think that if you find your line of argumentation leading to the ideal state being one where it is acceptable to bone your grandma's corpse (or sell it to someone down the street to do that to) then I perhaps think it might be time for a re-examination of your political views. But that's just me.
If figured we'd end up here in this thread. Just not so quickly. You should have given us time to get really really anarcho-craaazy. :D
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People like you are why the human race will never actually be free from each other.
Please explain.
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Please explain.
He did. It's in the other part of his quote.
;/
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Please explain.
It is inexplicable.
Or, yes, it is explicable in the way Wesley in Forrest Gump explains why he beats his woman because of "the damn war," and "That goddamned Johnson." It helps the explanation if one wears a milsurp Wehrmacht overshirt.
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I'm glad you claim the moral high ground over those around you. I submit to your all-moralness. Please tell me how to think for myself.
People like you are why the human race will never actually be free from each other.
/sigh
At some point, claiming that anyone who adheres to a different moral standard than you must therefore be looking down on you is both silly and hypocritical. Since, you know, you're claiming the moral high ground and looking down on me...
If you feel defensive every time someone disagrees with you, that is your problem not mine. I literally cannot think of a more polite and non-judgemental way of expressing my opinion than I did above. I apologize for my role as one of "those people" who oppress the poor necrophiliacs, and by extension everyone else on the planet apparently.
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I'm glad you claim the moral high ground over those around you. I submit to your all-moralness. Please tell me how to think for myself.
People like you are why the human race will never actually be free from each other.
I would also like to add: When it comes to people who like to hump dead bodies, I will gladly claim the moral high ground over them without reservation or doubt. That is just sick.
On a related topic, I feel compelled to mention that I prefer to be cremated after death. =D
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On a related topic, I feel compelled to mention that I prefer to be cremated after death. =D
That won't save you. Remember rule 34. =)
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A couple other thoughts similar to what others have said in the unlikely event this were to be legal:
1. IMO, the deceased must give explicit and unambiguous permission via very public statements and will, otherwise, not allowed.
2. The Executor and relatives cannot give permission without that. I cannot fathom a situation where the deceased made no mention of this yet we should allow an executor or relatives to give that permission. Talk about the ultimate revenge.
3. If permission is legal, it must be made part of the public record for both the deceased and the person allowed. No secrets for something like this.
4. Can we just talk about legalizing drugs or something? If we are going to go down the Extreme Freedom, then there are about 2,346,572,690 other things to be settled before this comes up on the docket.
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A couple other thoughts similar to what others have said in the unlikely event this were to be legal:
1. IMO, the deceased must give explicit and unambiguous permission via very public statements and will, otherwise, not allowed.
2. The Executor and relatives cannot give permission without that. I cannot fathom a situation where the deceased made no mention of this yet we should allow an executor or relatives to give that permission. Talk about the ultimate revenge.
3. If permission is legal, it must be made part of the public record for both the deceased and the person allowed. No secrets for something like this.
4. Can we just talk about legalizing drugs or something? If we are going to go down the Extreme Freedom, then there are about 2,346,572,690 other things to be settled before this comes up on the docket.
I think the most importent bullet is number four.
Although, I have this really strong urg to understand the train of thought that lead to the OP.
I have the same morbid fascination for trainwreaks.
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I saw a "wtf is this?!?!" Sort of link to the article in the OP, started to read it, and thought 1. This is wrong 2. But it's internally consistent with the worldview the author expresses. Then I wondered if the other folks I know who hold that same worldview would agree that the article represents them. So I asked.
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As an atheist/libertarian, I see the body as property of the deceased, and of the executor of the deceased wishes. If the deceased willed it or the executor lets you.....go for it. But *expletive deleted*, that's nasty.
It seems that speaking of the body as property would be where we go off the rails. We'd be better off speaking of having custody of the body, or something similar. Like scientific experimentation or organ donation, the deceased had bloody well better have supplied written instructions to have this done to their body. Even then, the executor, or whoever has custody of the corpse, would have to be willing to be involved in it. IOW, anyone who wants that to happen to them after death should find an executor willing to get it on with their corpse, or willing to supply it to someone who is willing.
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It seems that speaking of the body as property would be where we go off the rails. We'd be better off speaking of having custody of the body, or something similar. Like scientific experimentation or organ donation, the deceased had bloody well better have supplied written instructions to have this done to their body. Even then, the executor, or whoever has custody of the corpse, would have to be willing to be involved in it. IOW, anyone who wants that to happen to them after death should find an executor willing to get it on with their corpse, or willing to supply it to someone who is willing.
Actually, I think that makes the most sense.
/sigh
At some point, claiming that anyone who adheres to a different moral standard than you must therefore be looking down on you is both silly and hypocritical. Since, you know, you're claiming the moral high ground and looking down on me...
If you feel defensive every time someone disagrees with you, that is your problem not mine. I literally cannot think of a more polite and non-judgemental way of expressing my opinion than I did above. I apologize for my role as one of "those people" who oppress the poor necrophiliacs, and by extension everyone else on the planet apparently.
See my previous posts. In a free society you have no right to prevent me from agreeing to let someone bugger my corpse when I go.
With true freedom comes ugly things you won't like, whether its necrophiliacs or people who consume each other's blood or maybe you don't like their clothes or their religion. Am I a fan of the concept of porking the dead? Nope. But if someone wants to let people pork their corpse when they pass, who am I to stop them.
Oh, and you win 3 troll stars. Clap. Clap.
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This is what libertarianism looks like. =D
And people wonder why it hasn't caught on...?
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Is necrophilia wrong?
Only if the victim files a complaint.....
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This is what libertarianism looks like. =D
And people wonder why it hasn't caught on...?
I think the word you're looking for is Freedom. You're welcome.
If you can't wrap your head around the concept, I'm not sure how else to explain it.
You see, free people should always be able to make consensual deals with other free people. Whether it be about sex, money, property, or even the exchange of ideas. Anything short of that is not freedom.
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I think this whole thing runs along the same lines as cannibalism.
EDIT: edited to avoid copious amounts of butthurt.
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Well, the Founding Fathers were not, so far as I know, kissing cousins to the Marquis de Sade, though it might have been amusing to hear them debate.
Trivializing the struggle to preserve our political liberties with sophomoric debates about necrophilia--should we or shouldn't we?--doesn't advance any legitimate cause for "freedom."
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Well, the Founding Fathers were not, so far as I know, kissing cousins to the Marquis de Sade, though it might have been amusing to hear them debate.
Trivializing the struggle to preserve our political liberties with sophomoric debates about necrophilia--should we or shouldn't we?--doesn't advance any legitimate cause for "freedom."
Call it an intellectual exercise.
Replace necrophilia with the exchange of goods for services, religious ceremonies unregulated by the control of government (polygamy, anyone?), or any other act of exchange between consenting adults in a free society.
The outcome is still the same.
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For those who live the lifestyle
http://zombiepinups.com/ (http://zombiepinups.com/)
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For those who live the lifestyle
http://zombiepinups.com/ (http://zombiepinups.com/)
Posh. Real necros don't pork anything that moves.
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I'm trolling? That'd be funny if you weren't wearing a mod hat.
And just to be clear, holding the moral high ground and looking down on others is wrong! Unless you're a libertarian or anarchist and accusing anyone who dares to disagree with you as an enemy of freedom. Perfectly fine then.
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I'm trolling? That'd be funny if you weren't wearing a mod hat.
And just to be clear, holding the moral high ground and looking down on others is wrong! Unless you're a libertarian or anarchist and accusing anyone who dares to disagree with you as an enemy of freedom. Perfectly fine then.
Disagreement and control of the actions of others are two seperate issues.
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I think this whole thing runs along the same lines as cannibalism.
Cannibals are just necrophiliacs with a penchant for oral sex. >:D
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I'm somehow having a hard time making a connection that inability to legally pork the, even presumably consenting, dead somehow effects personal freedoms.
Kinda stretches the meaning of from my cold dead hands.
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I've laid my case that if consent is made, you take the good with the bad, or it isn't real freedom. Not sure what else to say.
This thread is like beating a dead horse, gutting it, and then letting a hot chick crawl around in its entrails. G'night.
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And with that folks, we are done here.