Post by: Harold Tuttle on May 30, 2006, 07:25:49 AM
after a fun weekend camping at a local state park with the family,
we returned to a warm house
i turned on the AC and the thermostat switched on the fans and main blower but 15 minutes later
no cool air
the condensor unit is getting power
and i noticed that if i press in this contact:
i get the external units fan to switch on
do i have a bad starter relay?
it looks like there is a coil on the back side that must pull the contact shut...
the company that installed the unit can get someone out here tomorrow
but that will eat into my ammo fund
befuddled Tuttle
Post by: 280plus on May 30, 2006, 09:45:03 AM
Post by: 280plus on May 30, 2006, 09:51:37 AM
A. Yes, it could be the contactor
or
B. The contactor coil is not receiving a signal to pull in.
If you have a meter you could check for 24V across the contactor coil terminals while the thermostat is calling for cool. If you get a signal then the contactor is bad. If there's no 24 V then you have something else going on. Are there any red buttons to push? If pushing a red button gets it to work then the finned coil is dirty and needs a good but gentle hosing down.
Ah well, again, sorry I can't help you directly.
Post by: Harold Tuttle on May 30, 2006, 11:17:32 AM
while i wish the unit had a red button
no joy
i am about to head for home and attempt to multimeter out a solution
when i tested it this morning holding in the contactor did not seem to make the compressor run
but i did not engage it for longer than a minute...
Post by: Harold Tuttle on May 30, 2006, 12:41:36 PM
i held the contactor in for over a minute
the compressor kicked on and started pumping
bad news
my install company can't get here till monday
time to go freelance
wheres my 27b/6 form?
Post by: Leatherneck on May 30, 2006, 01:13:03 PM
TC
Post by: Harold Tuttle on May 30, 2006, 01:18:09 PM
when it receives 24 volts it clamps the contact shut and starts the cycle
when the thermostat sees the proper temp it drops the voltage and the contacts open
i'm gonna jumper the contacts and bring the system online while i figure out
why the 24 volts is not being sent
Post by: Harold Tuttle on May 30, 2006, 01:39:26 PM
Post by: 280plus on May 30, 2006, 01:42:33 PM
I like how you called it a switch. Thats the hardest concept for people to get. A contactor or relay is nothing more than a remotely operated switch. Harold gets an "A"!
Post by: 280plus on May 30, 2006, 01:43:48 PM
Post by: 280plus on May 30, 2006, 01:48:28 PM
Post by: Harold Tuttle on May 30, 2006, 02:01:29 PM
Post by: Harold Tuttle on May 30, 2006, 02:16:53 PM
me thinks something in the basement is not sending, or getting 24 volts to send
Post by: 280plus on May 30, 2006, 02:20:34 PM
It looks to me like the contactor is pulled in. Are you only able to push it in a little way when you do? See the black and yellow wiores on either side of the contactor? Those are the coil wires. With the T'stat calling take a reading acroos those and if you have 24V there the contactor is bad. I'm beginning to think the contacts are fried and partially welded together from what I see and what you are telling me. Still just a guess though.
You know you'll have to kill the main switch to the outdoor unit to shut off the cool the way you have it wired?
Post by: cfabe on May 30, 2006, 02:26:19 PM
Post by: 280plus on May 30, 2006, 02:27:54 PM
You ARE getting indoor fan right? Did you try jumping R to Y at the t'stat?
Do you have a condensate pump in the basement? Sometimes they'll be wired to cut the signal to the outdoor unit if they start to overflow. Just a shot in the dark. Maybe it came unplugged or something?
Post by: 280plus on May 30, 2006, 02:33:30 PM
Post by: Harold Tuttle on May 30, 2006, 02:33:52 PM
i will let it run till the house cools down
the connector pushes in ~ a half an inch
heres the side view:
no volts are showing across the coil
Post by: 280plus on May 30, 2006, 02:56:07 PM
The logic board is marked so you can tell which terminal on the plug is which.
Also, you might try turning power to the indoor unit off for 5 minutes. It MIGHT be in some kind of lockout and that's how you would reset it.
Post by: 280plus on May 30, 2006, 03:03:52 PM
(same for putting it back on, don't press too hard, the board could break.)
Post by: Harold Tuttle on May 30, 2006, 05:01:04 PM
these lead up to the defrost board
i also cleaned and inspected the condensing pump
it does have an overflow shutdown send wire but that seems to be working properly
i also opened the amana furnace and looked at the wiring & boards
when running, a red LED labeled manual slow speed fan is flashing
everything has been rebooted and the thermostat has been reset via the majic button
nada
i'm back to bypassing the connector
its dark out and i really dislike 240 AC in the dark
at least the humidity is dropping indoors
Post by: Ron on May 30, 2006, 05:20:13 PM
Actually your camera is pretty good. Take a pic of the schematic and we can talk you through troubleshooting it like a pro would.
Post by: K Frame on May 30, 2006, 05:20:26 PM
Don't make a wrong move or it will get bright REALLY fast....
Post by: Ron on May 30, 2006, 05:27:48 PM
Quote
when running, a red LED labeled manual slow speed fan is flashing
Is the indoor fan coming on automatically or do you have it set on "fan on"?
Post by: Harold Tuttle on May 30, 2006, 05:50:36 PM
Post by: Harold Tuttle on May 30, 2006, 06:00:26 PM
i left it on fan only today to keep air moving while i was at work
the current status is if i don't bypass the connector,
the outside unit never starts
with it bypassed it comes on and starts to cool
if i turn the thermostat off but the condensor is bypassed to run
it continues running but reverses to heat cycle
as its about 85 degrees tonight this is a bad thing
so i pulled the fuse switch
and reset the thermostat to cool
and reengaged the condensor
Post by: Ron on May 30, 2006, 06:06:25 PM
We need to determine whether the thermostat is doing it's job and sending the 24 volts out to Y1. It will also send 24 volts to G which brings on the indoor fan. If the indoor fan is turning on automatically then the T Stat is probably OK.
If you can see where the LPS, HPS and DT wires plug into the board you can pull the wires off and Ohm out the wires.
LPS= low pressure switch, compressor will not run do to low pressure in refrigerant system.
HPS=high pressure switch, compressor will not run do to high pressure in refrigerant system.
DT =defrost t-stat, I a not am heat pump guy but this probably shuts the compressor of if the coil starts to freeze up.
Any of them could go bad and keep the system from running. Do this with the power off to the unit
Post by: Ron on May 30, 2006, 06:16:39 PM
If your meter has a setting where it beeps when you touch the probes that is what you use.
They are switches that should be closed or made. When touching one probe of your meter to one wire and the other probe to the second wire you should be able to read whether it is made or not.
My apologies if you understand this already, i am not sure how deep your electrical trouble shooting skills are.
Post by: Harold Tuttle on May 30, 2006, 06:26:41 PM
the indoor circulation fan is being triggered by the thermostat
i dig ohms
Post by: Ron on May 30, 2006, 06:40:07 PM
Quote
i dig ohms
It's an amazing universe we live in.
Post by: 280plus on May 30, 2006, 10:13:44 PM
Quote
it continues running but reverses to heat cycle
yup, when you turn the t'stat off it kills the signal to the reversing valve which goes into heat mode when deenergized so if the compressor runs with the valve denergized the unit produces heat.Have you figured whether you have a signal to the board across Y to C at the plug?
The best/quickest way to check the pump safety switch is to jump the two control wires to the pump together and see if the contactor pulls in.
Quote
its dark out and i really dislike 240 AC in the dark
Where's your sense of adventure? I don't know about Goron's area but around here we call a good shock a "cheap buzz" 
Post by: Harold Tuttle on May 31, 2006, 04:41:10 AM
i have tested the 24v status of the Y & C/B line
at the plug i am seeing 24 volts
at the coil and at the output of the defrost board
i am seeing nothing
it appears we have diagnosed it to a faulty component in the external condensor
now where to get a replacement defrost board for an
Amana Temp Assure II Heat Pump Model RHE30A2D, MFG NO P1232217C?
i may give this guy a call:
http://www.toad.net/~jsmeenen/
Post by: Harold Tuttle on May 31, 2006, 04:45:40 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/Amana-HVAC-Part-20214301-DEFROST-BOARD-KIT-New_W0QQitemZ7618700840QQihZ017QQcategoryZ53299QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
ding!:
http://cgi.ebay.com/CIRCUIT-BOARD-AMANA-HEATPUMP_W0QQitemZ7624221153QQihZ017QQcategoryZ42911QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Post by: Harold Tuttle on May 31, 2006, 04:56:23 AM
http://www.expertappliance.com
Part Type Control Board
Description
MAIN CONTROL BOARD
Our Part Number
Use this number to order online. Receive additional discount and free shipping
Z6-20214302-32AW
Price $298.01
Available Yes-In Stock
http://www.bestbuyheatingandairconditioning.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?
Amana Defrost Circuit Board Replacement Part
Code:CIB20214303
Price: $136.76
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
CIRCUIT BOARD FOR AMANA
DTL-620002-AMA P/N 20214302
Post by: cfabe on May 31, 2006, 07:51:48 AM
Post by: mfree on May 31, 2006, 08:57:59 AM
Post by: Harold Tuttle on May 31, 2006, 09:21:08 AM
looks like petrified spider farts
i guess i could jumper my own 24 volts to the coil from the furnace Y & C/B input
my Amana unit should have 10 year warrenty on the parts
And i heard from the install guy
he approved of my manual override solution
Post by: Ron on May 31, 2006, 05:14:10 PM
Are we cooling yet?
Post by: Harold Tuttle on May 31, 2006, 05:36:53 PM
and cooling nicely
i forgot to bring some alligator clip leads home to play with jumpering the 24 volts directly to the coil
Post by: 280plus on June 02, 2006, 06:02:46 AM
Yes you can eliminate the board for now and put 24V directly to the coil on the contactor but you'll need to replace it before next heating season or the unit will not defrost. As long as your getting cool you won't have to mess with the reversing valve circuit. Good luck!
Post by: Harold Tuttle on June 02, 2006, 10:30:11 AM
keep that internal pump circulating at peak efficiency
i'm about to run a 24 volt bypass here
this afternoon i stopped in my kids class room and the room was really stuffy
i cycled the fan in the AC unit off & on and the compressor kicked in and started cooling
these hands are blessed!
Post by: 280plus on June 02, 2006, 10:51:09 AM
Post by: 280plus on June 02, 2006, 10:54:11 AM
Post by: 280plus on June 02, 2006, 10:56:30 AM
Post by: 280plus on June 02, 2006, 10:58:36 AM
Post by: Harold Tuttle on June 02, 2006, 11:05:29 AM
when the autofan kicks on, the connector pulls in an the unit boots up and runs
should i disconnect the leads into the defrost board or is the reversing circuit routed through there?
Post by: 280plus on June 02, 2006, 11:14:31 AM
Post by: 280plus on June 02, 2006, 11:18:11 AM
Post by: Ron on June 02, 2006, 01:57:56 PM
Glad you are cooling HT, thought I would try to pick up the slack for our wounded tech.
Be cool guys.
Post by: Harold Tuttle on June 05, 2006, 08:59:47 AM
its running me $195 to replace it
he is going to have to vacuum down the system, replace the part and refill the refrigerant
Post by: 280plus on June 05, 2006, 09:37:26 AM
Post by: Harold Tuttle on June 14, 2006, 06:32:29 PM
they did not need to spend hours vacuuming the refrigerant to swap the part
funny thing
my pre paid 195 bucks was not rebated at all
Post by: Ron on June 14, 2006, 06:57:03 PM
Often there is a flat rate charged for recovery. if he didn't recover any refrigerent they should wave the charge.
Don't know what the hourly rate is but you didn't get ripped off. Just to have a guy show up and change a part will cost close to two bills around here. Is that including the original diagnostic call?
Post by: 280plus on June 15, 2006, 12:12:48 AM
I'm getting ready. they're calling for 93 Sunday and Monday... First time this year.
Post by: Harold Tuttle on June 15, 2006, 04:10:16 AM
instead of a squat silver switch
i have a green barrel on a 3/8ths threaded brass connector
as i first stated:
there goes the ammo fund ( -$200 )