Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Monkeyleg on May 28, 2012, 11:37:17 AM
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I know this is a subject that's been beaten to death, but in the last several nights I've seen some movies in which characters handle guns in some unusual ways.
In one movie ("The Brave One"), the character holds the gun with the weak hand index finger on the front of the trigger guard, with the weak hand above and covering the strong hand. That's all well and good, except that the gun is a revolver, and the weak hand is over the cylinder gap.
In another movie, a police officer is moving through a darkened building, holding a flashlight in one hand and Glock in the other. The usual method is for the gun hand to rest on the flashlight hand or wrist, but in this case the cop is holding the flashlight on top of the gun, over the ejection port. (Maybe it's a trick way to catch brass before it goes flying).
In Kevin Kostner's "The Untouchables", Elliott Ness holds his toddler daughter in his arms, with his 1911 pointed at the back of her head and his finger on the trigger.
In the movie "Street Kings", Keaneu Reeves wakes up with his clothes on, hung over. He feels around under the blanket, and finds his 1911. He does a chamber check, sees the chambered round, then moves the slide back forward. He then inserts the full magazine that was lying beside the pistol. Why remove the magazine when there's a round in the chamber?
In another movie, the actor points the barrel of his revolver up, swings open the cylinder, then lowers the barrel and snaps the cylinder closed. No rounds fall out of the cylinder, but in the last shot the cylinder is loaded.
In "The Shooter", Kate Mara picks up Ned Beatty's polished Beretta after he's been disarmed. She then fires four shots into her assailant before the pistol goes to slide lock. Who carries a gun with just four rounds in it?
Just a few examples, and I could go on forever. I wonder if movie producers would use volunteers as weapons advisors?
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In the movie "Street Kings", Keaneu Reeves wakes up with his clothes on, hung over. He feels around under the blanket, and finds his 1911. He does a chamber check, sees the chambered round, then moves the slide back forward. He then inserts the full magazine that was lying beside the pistol. Why remove the magazine when there's a round in the chamber?
Just saw something similar while rewatching "Road to Perdition" last night. Hanks picks up his 1911, racks the slide, then inserts a magazine in it and engages the thumb safety.
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On the other side of the coin, movies like Way of the Gun show what happens when hollyweird lets the gun advisors have a lot of leeway.
The one thing that makes me insane in TV and movies is when the entry team or tac team all has on head gear, helmets, optics on their weapons but the main character doesn't have on a helmet nor optics. Gotta be able to see that million dollar mug, huh?
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I was flipping the channels yesterday and saw a silly made for TV movie on SYFY about mutant alligators or something. The female Conservation Officer was in the back of a jeep shooting a rather large revolver at the giant lizard that was chasing them. She fired at least 14 shots without reloading.
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I always ;/ when they can tell just by looking at a bullet hole whether it was made by a .38 or a 9mm or a .357.
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I always when they can tell just by looking at a bullet hole whether it was made by a .38 or a 9mm or a .357.
That's because they use special vernier calipers that are only sold to LEO.
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That's because they use special vernier calipers that are only sold to LEO.
Implanted in their eyeballs ???
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One that immediately comes to mind is "Stitch Hessian" in the Firefly episode "Jaynestown". His operation of the shotgun throughout the episode is just silly, i.e. points it at Mal and you hear the slide rack sound though he never touches the slide. Dramatic effect, I suppose. Zoe also on occasion throughout the series cycles the action on her mare's leg for no reason. Same silly dramatic effect.
Lots of others.
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In "The Shooter", Kate Mara picks up Ned Beatty's polished Beretta after he's been disarmed. She then fires four shots into her assailant before the pistol goes to slide lock. Who carries a gun with just four rounds in it?
The answer to that is "Actors in a movie with a liability-conscious prop master". They load only the number of rounds needed for the scene because the name "Jon-Erik Hexum" keeps them up at night.
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Gawd, I've given up "cataloging" movie gun gaffes. They barely elicit a slight grin from me. But I did notice the micrometer-click eyeballs on that .38/.357/9mm bullet hole item recently.
I guess the propmaster keeps an assortment of these around, sorted by caliber:
http://www.pimall.com/nais/bulletholes.html
I use them on my computer.
Terry, 230RN
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Some of the odd gun flaws are actually continuity flaws, which is pretty commen across the board with any props, sets and coustumes. I'm guessing the magically loaded revolver is one, someone shot the scene and forgot to load it. Later, it's loaded because someone remembered to load it.
One CSI:NY episode had me cheering for a whole minute before they screwed it up. The bad guy has knocked the detective out and when she comes too he's sitting across from her, but he's left her Glock on the floor within her reach. When she grabs it, he pulls her magizine out from behind his back and starts taunting her with it.
"You know, everyone forgets, there's one round in the chamber." and shoots him. But its a nonfatal hit, and they commence fighting on the floor. She manages to whip around and grab her magizine and loads it into her Glock, slamming the slide shut just in time to unload into him before he can bash her head in.
I was cheering right up until she hit the slide release... *sigh* yep, this Glock of hers will slide lock without an empty mag.
It's a minor flaw, as far as hollywood goes, but it started off so promising. I don't know how many times I've seen the "without magazine gun can have no bang!" flaw.
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A lot of it is ignorance on the part of actors and directors but...movies and TV are up-close visual mediums so a lot of the things like sliding mags in and out or opening and spinning revolver cylinders are done to keep the audiences' eyeballs involved with what is going on an otherwise static shot.
That though, is a poor excuse as audiences should be able to go a few moments without needing something happening.
There is that saying that if, in a play, you show a gun in the first act it better damn well go off in the third act. This excessive gun handling is part of that philosophy. It's the directors way of saying "See this gun? This is important! Pay attention!"
They do the same thing with swords. How many times in a movie where swords are main arms do we see the characters slide them in and out of their sheaths or hold them up to the light as the camera angle catches the wielder's reflection in the metal?
Or when a small time criminal takes a knife out and the light just hits it so there's a perfect glint off the metal? Or he rubs it along a thumb, or twirls about in his hand? Its all in the same category of "increasing the drama".
Its the same with the Foley artists and sound effects people addding the clickclickclick sound to spinning revolver cylinders or the sound of a GLOCK's magic, invisible hammer being pulled back.
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What befuddles me is why don't writers use actual gun operation and limitations as part of the drama ?
And why - if you're writing a crime and police drama - a writer doesn't bother to educate him/herself about the basics of the weapons they are writing about ?
I suppose anyone who knows even a bit about medical forensics is equally ;/
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One that immediately comes to mind is "Stitch Hessian" in the Firefly episode "Jaynestown". His operation of the shotgun throughout the episode is just silly, i.e. points it at Mal and you hear the slide rack sound though he never touches the slide. Dramatic effect, I suppose. Zoe also on occasion throughout the series cycles the action on her mare's leg for no reason. Same silly dramatic effect.
Lots of others.
How do these firearms work, exactly? I don't think it's ever explained, so how can you tell what they're doing, or what the sound effects indicate?
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Those electronic sounds that the Firefly 'verse guns make is puzzling.
I always rationalized it as recoil dampers or perhaps a system in the chamber that makes it so that any ammo of the (proper caliber or even slightly smaller) will go off or be safely ejected. This being due to the likelihood of ammo quality being at different levels in different places so gun makers adapted so that their guns could be used even with poor quality ammo.
However what person, knowing that they get into many gunfights due to the nature of their business, wants a gun that makes sounds that can easily compromise their position?
Though from the POV of Whedon and the others its all just a way to yell "This is the future!"
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Tallpine, the producers of "Shooter" went to great lengths to have weapons advisors so that gun issues were as accurate as possible. (The book was very well researched, or so a maker of custom 1000-yard rifles tells me). The scene with Kate Mara makes me wonder if the advisors were at lunch.
In the movie "Goodfellas", Karen Hill sits on top of a sleeping Henry Hill, and points a S&W snubbie at him. As the camera alternates from closeup to side view to front view to side again (and so on), the gun changes from blued to stainless several times. It's not the lighting, it's two different revolvers. Ooops. So much for the continuity assistant.
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Those edits could have been filmed days or weeks after the main shots and the same gun might not have been available. Still, though...
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How do these firearms work, exactly? I don't think it's ever explained, so how can you tell what they're doing, or what the sound effects indicate?
Considered that, and I'll go along with it up to a point. Mal's handgun, Jayne's "Vera", the Allied "stun rifle", all seem to have unconventional manners of operation.
Zoe's weapon and Stitch's shotgun...bit too much of a stretch for me.
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Open Range, in other respects a great movie, has Costner fanning his SAA at least 9 times into a baddie. Damnit.
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In one of the scenes of the obscure Woodie Allen over dubbed Japanese movie "What's Up Tiger Lilly" he makes fun of gun errors when during a shoot out on an old boat one character says something like '...watch me shoot 10 times and get 11 guys.'
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What befuddles me is why don't writers use actual gun operation and limitations as part of the drama ?
And why - if you're writing a crime and police drama - a writer doesn't bother to educate him/herself about the basics of the weapons they are writing about ?
I suppose anyone who knows even a bit about medical forensics is equally ;/
Well, you know they do it with horses. Remember, according to Seabiscuit, the movie, War Adimeral was 16 hands high.
I can let most gun/horse stuff go, based on the same principles that Warren said, and anything with futeristic or fantasy elements can do whatever, but sometimes it just gets annoyingly stupid.
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Open Range, in other respects a great movie, has Costner fanning his SAA at least 9 times into a baddie. Damnit.
Watched it last night. Starting with Costner's opening shot I count 16 on-camera rounds out of his pistol before he switches over to the rifle.
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Well, you can continuously-fire an SAA if you leave the loading gate open, half-cock it between shots, eject the empty and stick in a fresh cartridge, and keep firing thataway, but it's a royal pain in the tuchas. And it works better if you're left-handed. I don't think this would work with a modern SA, but I suppose it would be practical if you're well-practiced and in dire straits and stuck with only an SAA.
Now watch, some movie/TV writer will pick up on this and soon you'll see someone doing this on the screen.
PM me for where to send the money for this idea.
Terry, 230RN
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I still don't think anyone has answered the question in the OP: which movie had the giraffes with guns?
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I still don't think anyone has answered the question in the OP: which movie had the giraffes with guns?
http://www.hulu.com/watch/42614/saturday-night-live-snl-digital-short-giraffes
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Open Range, in other respects a great movie, has Costner fanning his SAA at least 9 times into a baddie. Damnit.
Watched it last night. Starting with Costner's opening shot I count 16 on-camera rounds out of his pistol before he switches over to the rifle.
I take it neither one of you ever saw an old cowboy movie starring folks with names like Gene Autry or Roy Rogers, who seem to have routinely carried 50- and 100- shooters? ;)
Actually, my #1 movie gun peeve is how quiet guns are; even after a prolonged INDOOR firefight with everything from magnum pistols to high powered rifles and large caliber machine guns, the characters - none of whom wear ear protection - can still communicate in whispers. (Blackhawk Down was one of the few movies where the effect of muzzle blast on hearing was mentioned.)
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Actually, my #1 movie gun peeve is how quiet guns are; even after a prolonged INDOOR firefight with everything from magnum pistols to high powered rifles and large caliber machine guns, the characters - none of whom wear ear protection - can still communicate in whispers.
That bugs me too. Last week I saw an assassin with a .308 rifle and the good guy with a high-powered handgun (I don't remember what, I think it was something like a .357 magnum 2" or 3" revolver) shooting it out in the metal hold of a boat. Multiple shots fired. No ear plugs.
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http://www.hulu.com/watch/42614/saturday-night-live-snl-digital-short-giraffes
That may not be entirely accurate.
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Actually, my #1 movie gun peeve is how quiet guns are; even after a prolonged INDOOR firefight with everything from magnum pistols to high powered rifles and large caliber machine guns, the characters - none of whom wear ear protection - can still communicate in whispers. (Blackhawk Down was one of the few movies where the effect of muzzle blast on hearing was mentioned.)
I don't think we can really complain about most of the chatting that goes on during Hollywood firefights. Even when a film is recreating actual events (like Blackhawk Down), a good narrative has to keep moving, keep advancing the plot, keep our interest. Dialogue is one of the main ways of doing that.
But you're right about the whispering. That, at least, they could avoid.
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I don't know how many times I've seen the "without magazine gun can have no bang!" flaw.
Didn't they do the same thing in the Tommy Lee Jones flik U.S. Marshals?
Yep. Tommy swapped magazines on the bad guy, but he didn't rack the slide, so later on when the bad guy shot at him, he would have had that one live round that was already in the chamber.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mppR87YayQk&feature=relmfu
Right at the start of the clip ...
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Not sure what's worse; the gun gaffes or the law gaffes. I just watched an episode of Criminal Minds where one of the suspects had bought a pistol from an FFL in Chicago. Seven years ago. :facepalm:
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(Blackhawk Down was one of the few movies where the effect of muzzle blast on hearing was mentioned.)
Also Archer.
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I take it neither one of you ever saw an old cowboy movie starring folks with names like Gene Autry or Roy Rogers, who seem to have routinely carried 50- and 100- shooters? ;)
Actually, my #1 movie gun peeve is how quiet guns are; even after a prolonged INDOOR firefight with everything from magnum pistols to high powered rifles and large caliber machine guns, the characters - none of whom wear ear protection - can still communicate in whispers. (Blackhawk Down was one of the few movies where the effect of muzzle blast on hearing was mentioned.)
While it was emphasized as part of a plot device, the climax of CopLand addressed it pretty well.
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Oh, the gun blast thing reminds me of the loooooong ricochet noises. Indoors. Pwaaaaaaaaaaaaang. Yeah, possibly in a large warehouse or an airplane hangar or even an underground parking lot, but still.
And sometimes it's the identical pwaaaaaaaaaaaaang repeated several times.
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Actually, my #1 movie gun peeve is how quiet guns are; even after a prolonged INDOOR firefight with everything from magnum pistols to high powered rifles and large caliber machine guns, the characters - none of whom wear ear protection - can still communicate in whispers. (Blackhawk Down was one of the few movies where the effect of muzzle blast on hearing was mentioned.)
as well as the small phht of a silencer.
also, there is a western where clint puts one round in his empty single action, spins the cylinder and shoots the bad guy. yes, he is that good.
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Most recently I watched Rango which had a colt SAA-type gun with a swing-out cylinder. But there's more...the cylinder swung out the RIGHT side of the revolver.
I find this especially interesting because obviously some concept artist had to create the model for that gun, and then several different people no doubt had to work on rendering the 3D model for that thing. Before doing all that work, you think someone would, you know, look at a real gun, or know something about what a gun actually is. It would be like rendering a horse but with the knees bending the wrong way or something. It could be deliberate, but I can't imagine why.
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Most recently I watched Rango which had a colt SAA-type gun with a swing-out cylinder. But there's more...the cylinder swung out the RIGHT side of the revolver.
I find this especially interesting because obviously some concept artist had to create the model for that gun, and then several different people no doubt had to work on rendering the 3D model for that thing. Before doing all that work, you think someone would, you know, look at a real gun, or know something about what a gun actually is. It would be like rendering a horse but with the knees bending the wrong way or something. It could be deliberate, but I can't imagine why.
Are you sure the footaged didn't get flipped in post production?
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Oh, the gun blast thing reminds me of the loooooong ricochet noises. Indoors. Pwaaaaaaaaaaaaang. Yeah, possibly in a large warehouse or an airplane hangar or even an underground parking lot, but still.
And sometimes it's the identical pwaaaaaaaaaaaaang repeated several times.
How about how every monster or wild creature in every movie sounds like the same mountain lion sample?
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Most recently I watched Rango which had a colt SAA-type gun with a swing-out cylinder. But there's more...the cylinder swung out the RIGHT side of the revolver.
I find this especially interesting because obviously some concept artist had to create the model for that gun, and then several different people no doubt had to work on rendering the 3D model for that thing. Before doing all that work, you think someone would, you know, look at a real gun, or know something about what a gun actually is. It would be like rendering a horse but with the knees bending the wrong way or something. It could be deliberate, but I can't imagine why.
That was a real gun: Savage 101
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLQSY-bRBZM
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revolver not pistol myth make head hurt :facepalm:
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revolver not pistol myth make head hurt :facepalm:
Yeah. New riddle:
When is a revolver not a revolver?
When it's a ___
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when it's ajar?