Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: roo_ster on June 18, 2012, 05:06:26 PM
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You'd think that would be obvious, but I suppose one can not assume morality on the part of our rulers' tools.
Ninth Circuit to DEA: Putting a Gun to an 11-Year-Old's Head Is Not OK
http://reason.com/blog/2012/06/18/ninth-circuit-to-dea-putting-a-gun-to-an#commentcontainer
Viewing the evidence in the light most favorable to the Avinas, a rational trier of fact could find that agents engaged in “extreme or outrageous” conduct when the agents: (1) pointed their guns at the head of eleven-year-old B.S.A. “like they were going to shoot [her]” while B.S.A. was lying on the floor in handcuffs; (2) forced eleven-year-old B.S.A. and fourteen-year-old B.F.A. to lie face down on the floor with their hands cuffed behind their backs; (3) left B.S.A. and B.F.A. in handcuffs for half an hour; and (4) yelled at eleven-year-old B.S.A. and fourteen-year-old B.F.A. to “[g]et down on the f[uck]ing ground.” See Tekle, 511 F.3d at 856 (holding that officers were not entitled to summary judgment on claim for intentional infliction of emotional distress where officers pointed guns at eleven-year old’s head during the arrest of the eleven-year-old’s father); see also id. at 859 (Fisher, J., concurring). Accordingly, we reverse the district court’s grant of summary judgment in favor of the United States on B.F.A.’s and B.S.A.’s claims for intentional infliction of emotional distress.
Here is instapundit's take on it:
ANOTHER WRONG-HOUSE RAID: Ninth Circuit to DEA: Putting a Gun to an 11-Year-Old’s Head Is Not OK. No, but it’s standard operating procedure, apparently.
There should be no official immunity for no-knock raids.
Plus: “While this raid was conducted under President George W. Bush, the deputy administrator of the DEA at that time was Michele Leonhart. She is now the administrator of the DEA, thanks to an appointment by President Barack Obama. Furthermore, the Obama Administration could have declined to defend the DEA in this case. Instead, Obama’s Justice Department has decided to make the case that federal agents should be allowed to hold guns to the heads of children.” (Emphasis added.)
And why aren’t the names of all the agents published? They should be publicly shamed for their error, and their behavior. From the opinion: “At the time the warrant was issued, DEA Agents believed that a vehicle belonging to suspected drug trafficker Luis Alvarez was registered at the Avina residence. After executing the search warrant on January 20, 2007, the agents discovered they had inadvertently written down a license number of a vehicle belonging to Thomas Avina instead of a vehicle belonging to Luis Alvarez.”
No ordinary citizen who made such an error, and then threatened children with guns, would enjoy anonymity.
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all that court did was reverse the summary judgement
i think someone was doing some very selective reading
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What if the 11 year old is wearing a hoodie? :police:
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What if the eleven-year-old is following the officer?
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We have to do this, or else the drug dealers will have won. :police:
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If it transpires then it's a reasonable way to fight drug use, then let the drug use win.
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After working in juvenile court for well over 12 years, I say that there are some 11 year olds that shoud be held at gunpoint during an arrest. (Where is the "no joke intended" emotincon?)
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After working in juvenile court for well over 12 years, I say that there are some 11 year olds that shoud be held at gunpoint during an arrest. (Where is the "no joke intended" emotincon?)
Even just based on the 3 months of part time work at a juvinile prison/treatment facility, I would concur.
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If the DEA were doing something constitutional, it wouldn't have any guns at all. About the only proper role I see for an agency like this is quality and purity inspection, like the FDA. Morally driven criminal bans aren't commerce regulation.
In a sane legal world, the DEA would be an entity that helps users get better drugs or it would be nothing at all.
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In a sane legal world, the DEA would be an entity that helps users get better drugs or it would be nothing at all.
I think the Libertarian Party has a new presidential candidate. ;)
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If the DEA were doing something constitutional, it wouldn't have any guns at all. About the only proper role I see for an agency like this is quality and purity inspection, like the FDA. Morally driven criminal bans aren't commerce regulation.
In a sane legal world, the DEA would be an entity that helps users get better drugs or it would be nothing at all.
I will interrupt the flow of this thread with roaring applause for De Selby.
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I will interrupt the flow of this thread with roaring applause for De Selby.
+1
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I will interrupt the flow of this thread with roaring applause for De Selby.
Satan's looking for some wool socks.
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Hey DeSelby, I'll see your dismantling of the DEA enforcement, and go all in by throwing in the investigation and enforcement division of every federal agency, department, or bureau except the FBI, Secret Service, US Marshal's Service, Park Rangers, NCIS.
Then, restructure it like this:
1. Secret Service is tasked exclusively with executive protection, and investigation of threats on executives in the government.
2. Marshal's Service would be tasked to court work and figitive apprehension.
3. Park Rangers would work in the parks. I'll give them this one, as they do more than just investigate crimes and arrest people. A lot of search and rescue, historical information, tour guides, etc.
4. NCIS is, in my opinion, a good idea. You have investigators working outside the military chain of command, so their investigations hsould not be impeded by rank, etc. Someone used their brains on that one, and the Army and Air Force should have paid attention.
5. FBI. Here's where my idea gets interesting. Expand the FBI, and put them in charge of all investigation and enforcement under the U.S.C. You would actually save money by having a single agency, so things like automobile contracts, firearms and ammo contracts, etc., would be a single agency and a single provider. No more would the feds have dozens of agencies buying different equipment from different providers, so expenses would be reduced. Management would be easier. You would reduce the number of supervisors, simplify the system, and save money in the overextended federal budget.
Just a thought...
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Federal B.I. gets counterfeiting, then?
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Hey DeSelby, I'll see your dismantling of the DEA enforcement, and go all in by throwing in the investigation and enforcement division of every federal agency, department, or bureau except the FBI, Secret Service, US Marshal's Service, Park Rangers, NCIS.
Then, restructure it like this:
1. Secret Service is tasked exclusively with executive protection, and investigation of threats on executives in the government.
2. Marshal's Service would be tasked to court work and figitive apprehension.
3. Park Rangers would work in the parks. I'll give them this one, as they do more than just investigate crimes and arrest people. A lot of search and rescue, historical information, tour guides, etc.
4. NCIS is, in my opinion, a good idea. You have investigators working outside the military chain of command, so their investigations hsould not be impeded by rank, etc. Someone used their brains on that one, and the Army and Air Force should have paid attention.
5. FBI. Here's where my idea gets interesting. Expand the FBI, and put them in charge of all investigation and enforcement under the U.S.C. You would actually save money by having a single agency, so things like automobile contracts, firearms and ammo contracts, etc., would be a single agency and a single provider. No more would the feds have dozens of agencies buying different equipment from different providers, so expenses would be reduced. Management would be easier. You would reduce the number of supervisors, simplify the system, and save money in the overextended federal budget.
Just a thought...
Also, remove counter-intel duties from FBI, create new CI agency to perform such duties. The internal analog to the CIA.
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create new CI agency to perform such duties
ironically that mindset lead us to the temporary dea in the first place
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Federal B.I. gets counterfeiting, then?
Yep. Why not? Just another federal crime. Any specialist in identifying counterfeit currency can get a job in the new FBI.
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Also, remove counter-intel duties from FBI, create new CI agency to perform such duties. The internal analog to the CIA.
I agree. Dump it on the CIA/NSA. Supposed to be their areas of expertise anyway.
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For the record, I support individual rights and strict adherence to the constutuion. Always have, so I'd be on board with Chris's program too.
The extent to which the constitution is ignored today probably means we need a constutuional convention to fix it, and who knows how that would turn out. The longer I sit in a parliamentary system, the more I appreciate how it works. It might be something to consider adopting back home.
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I have been 'sitting' in a parliamentary system for 21 years. Don't listen to a word he says. =D
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I have been 'sitting' in a parliamentary system for 21 years. Don't listen to a word he says. =D
Personally I'd prefer living in a Constitutional Republic with a government of limited, enumerated powers.
I hear that's a VERY successful way of setting up a government. I can't speak from personal experience with it, though.
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Personally I'd prefer living in a Constitutional Republic with a government of limited, enumerated powers.
I hear that's a VERY successful way of setting up a government. I can't speak from personal experience with it, though.
My dead and gone grandparents spoke of familiarity with such a critter.
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My dead and gone grandparents spoke of familiarity with such a critter.
Before 1860 ???
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Federal B.I. gets counterfeiting, then?
No, Bernanke gets that.
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No, Bernanke gets that.
I have a vision of Beranake running an old-school mimeograph machine, turning out worthless purple-ink dollars with one hand, while pointing a gun at himself with the other, "Stop the presses and nobody gets hurt!"
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thewaythefutureblogs.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F10%2Fsmith_dick-mimeo.jpg&hash=511ad7c12cc461277bbd0223cb40caf44b554f7e)
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The extent to which the constitution is ignored today probably means we need a constutuional convention to fix it, and who knows how that would turn out. The longer I sit in a parliamentary system, the more I appreciate how it works. It might be something to consider adopting back home.
I disagree. It isn't the Constitution that's broken. The 4th Amendment still says that the People shall be secure in their homes against unreasonable searches. The problem is that the courts have allowed things to devolve to a state that busting down the door of the wrong home and pointing guns at everyone inside while screaming naughty words at children is considered normal and acceptable practice. In other words, that which is prima facie not reasonable to a sane individual has been determined by idiot courts to be legally reasonable.
Who said above that no-knock warrants should not be allowed? I agree. Further, the current time criteria for knock-and-enter warrants are also ridiculous. The courts have ruled that (IIRC) 20 to 30 seconds is sufficient time between knocking on the door and busting it in. Time for a reality check. I'm a heavy sleeper, and I sleep on the second floor. My route from the bedroom to the front door is through a dimly lit hallway with a sloped ceiling, which restricts rapid movement. Even IF I awakened at the very first knock, it would take a LOT more than 30 seconds for my awakening brain to figure out that there are people claiming to be police knocking on my door and to get myself out of bed and down the stairs to open said door.
And whatever happened to the quaint notion that the person on whom a warrant is "served" is supposed to be afforded an opportunity to READ the warrant? Think how much anguish and angst could be afforded if Jim Jones at 147 North Main Street were allowed to see the warrant so he could inform the friendly SWAT boys that the warrant they just showed him is for Alfred E. Newman, not Jim Jones, and the address on the warrant is 174 South Main Street?
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Hey DeSelby, I'll see your dismantling of the DEA enforcement, and go all in by throwing in the investigation and enforcement division of every federal agency, department, or bureau except the FBI, Secret Service, US Marshal's Service, Park Rangers, NCIS.
Then, restructure it like this:
1. Secret Service is tasked exclusively with executive protection, and investigation of threats on executives in the government.
2. Marshal's Service would be tasked to court work and figitive apprehension.
3. Park Rangers would work in the parks. I'll give them this one, as they do more than just investigate crimes and arrest people. A lot of search and rescue, historical information, tour guides, etc.
4. NCIS is, in my opinion, a good idea. You have investigators working outside the military chain of command, so their investigations hsould not be impeded by rank, etc. Someone used their brains on that one, and the Army and Air Force should have paid attention.
5. FBI. Here's where my idea gets interesting. Expand the FBI, and put them in charge of all investigation and enforcement under the U.S.C. You would actually save money by having a single agency, so things like automobile contracts, firearms and ammo contracts, etc., would be a single agency and a single provider. No more would the feds have dozens of agencies buying different equipment from different providers, so expenses would be reduced. Management would be easier. You would reduce the number of supervisors, simplify the system, and save money in the overextended federal budget.
Just a thought...
What does the FBI have to do with firearms and ammo contracts? How is purchasing an enforcement issue? Considering the Constitution bans all infringements on the right to keep and bear arms, there's no need for a firearms role for the FBI. And park rangers should be animal experts with no law enforcement role. Otherwise, a great post. Consolidation and mergers to optimize overhead is all the rage. The feds need to get on board.
Also, remove counter-intel duties from FBI, create new CI agency to perform such duties. The internal analog to the CIA.
Abuses of power by the CIA is why counter-intelligence is in the FBI. We don't want the CIA released back on the American people. In fact, using the NSA as a technical work around on the law needs to be banned as well. There should be no intelligence gathering on Americans or residents of America except for counter-terrorism, counter-espionage, and counter-intelligence. These are roles for the FBI.
For the record, I support individual rights and strict adherence to the constutuion. Always have, so I'd be on board with Chris's program too.
The extent to which the constitution is ignored today probably means we need a constutuional convention to fix it, and who knows how that would turn out. The longer I sit in a parliamentary system, the more I appreciate how it works. It might be something to consider adopting back home.
Constitutional convention are the two scariest words a libertarian ever heard. Having any other constitutional convention would only mean a new, different, or changed constitution that would be ignored just like the current one is ignored. The problem is, though, that the new constitution would almost certainly restrict the right to keep and bear arms, limit free speech to approved fenced off free speech zones, and require permits for protests - among whatever other reasonable restrictions leaders of such a convention could come up with. A bunch of state legislators in a room creating changes to our Constitution scares the heck out of me.
What we need is to vote out those who will not follow the Constitution as it exists yet we continue to return the same Congress that over 85% of Americans profess to hate.