Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Ben on July 04, 2012, 01:14:28 PM
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I'm generally an open market kinda guy, and if someone wants to buy from China vs the US, their money, their business. Having the US government buy only US made American flags sure does seem like the right thing to do though, from a philosophical perspective (as long as flag makers don't start with the equivalent of the $1000 hammer).
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/07/04/lawmakers-push-for-american-flags-to-be-made-in-usa/
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I'd be willing to bet that the majority of taxpayers would favor their tax dollars buying US-made flags rather than foreign-made.
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Seems a no brainer. As I recall, all of my Navy uniforms are Made in the U.S.A.
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Sounds OK by me....I prefer gov't act more as a consumer than as a regulator.....
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IMO, the US Govt should always seek to source its purchases on US made products when possible. That is just common sense.
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IMO, the US Govt should always seek to source its purchases on US made products when possible. That is just common sense.
Need I point out why that makes less sense than you'd think?
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Need I point out why that makes less sense than you'd think?
Please do....
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Please do....
I don't wanna speak for MB, and I may be wrong, but I'm guessing he's referring to the whole, "if you want to export your goods and services, you need to play ball and import goods and services". Obviously we have problems with it, but we need to engage in international trade.
While I still believe that it's important we buy a symbol like the American flag from Americans, when buying goods for the US govt, I don't always buy American. We're supposed to give priority to American companies, with extra priority given to minority, woman, veteran, [insert description here] owned companies. However those of us authorized to purchase goods are also supposed to buy for, "best value to the government".
That's what I give priority to. I look for the best price of a good quality item to try and spend taxpayer dollars wisely. I won't buy a cheap Chinese knockoff to save 20% if it's something that's going to break in a month or not perform properly. On the other hand, every time I make an attempt to buy from one of the "diverse" businesses with a govt contract, or half the businesses listed in the GSA schedule, whatever item I'm looking at is more often than not more expensive than the open market.
At some point I'll probably get in trouble for it, and many may not like that I don't always "buy American" with taxpayer dollars, but if I can give the taxpayers the best bang for their buck by buying made in China "widget A" from Amazon instead of its overvalued counterpart on GSA, that's what I do.
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I'm not so sure about China, but I really like the idea of foreigners making our flags for us. Same way I love the fact that the nation of Japan that once attacked us, and that we humbled, now makes cars and electronics for us to enjoy.
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It's not lawmakers jobs to create favorable market conditions on US flags.
They have more important *expletive deleted*it to worry about.
Like the fact that we won't be buying *expletive deleted*ing flags from ANYONE if they don't clean up their act.
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Need I point out why that makes less sense than you'd think?
Only makes less sense if you had relatively free markets that applied equally in both directions.
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1. I am not talking about an exclusive US only rule, just favorable treatment to domestic manufacturing if the bids are in line with competitors. I don't think we should pay 10 times as much for something domestic unless there are other factors involved. However, the idea of a Made in China tag on a US flag just seems weird to me.
2. I am ONLY talking about Govt Spending, not general market protection. I think most taxpayers would rather the Govt spend their money domestically (when reasonable) rather than send it to overseas.
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It's not lawmakers jobs to create favorable market conditions on US flags.
They have more important *expletive deleted* to worry about.
Like the fact that we won't be buying *expletive deleted* flags from ANYONE if they don't clean up their act.
IMO, it is part of their job to avoid loading US companies down with BS regulations that make it difficult to compete on the open market. They generally fail at that.
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I don't wanna speak for MB, and I may be wrong, but I'm guessing he's referring to the whole, "if you want to export your goods and services, you need to play ball and import goods and services". Obviously we have problems with it, but we need to engage in international trade.
While I still believe that it's important we buy a symbol like the American flag from Americans, when buying goods for the US govt, I don't always buy American. We're supposed to give priority to American companies, with extra priority given to minority, woman, veteran, [insert description here] owned companies. However those of us authorized to purchase goods are also supposed to buy for, "best value to the government".
That's what I give priority to. I look for the best price of a good quality item to try and spend taxpayer dollars wisely. I won't buy a cheap Chinese knockoff to save 20% if it's something that's going to break in a month or not perform properly. On the other hand, every time I make an attempt to buy from one of the "diverse" businesses with a govt contract, or half the businesses listed in the GSA schedule, whatever item I'm looking at is more often than not more expensive than the open market.
At some point I'll probably get in trouble for it, and many may not like that I don't always "buy American" with taxpayer dollars, but if I can give the taxpayers the best bang for their buck by buying made in China "widget A" from Amazon instead of its overvalued counterpart on GSA, that's what I do.
This. In Spades.
I expect the public servants to spend MY money as if it were their own. The market does not demand that you you pay the least for whatever item you need or want. The market demands that you get the best value in the item that you need or want. Least Price =/= Best Value.
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I don't wanna speak for MB, and I may be wrong, but I'm guessing......
Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of the military equipment developed by foreign entities (Beretta M9, FN SAW, etc.) that we were able to get domestically manufactured......
....I'm OK with this practice, but more mundane consumer items should be domestically bought....or at least bought from friendly nations....
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As far as what lawmakers are busy with, there are so many screwed up things in our Federal Govt, this is a pretty minor issue. However, I am not sure I want our lawmakers working on important issues as they would likely just screw them up more.
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Please do....
I think there are agreements (I'm not sure they apply specifically to flags) that mandate that member states have an equal and open bidding process for government contracts - for example, if Italy's government needs office equipment, a U.S. manufacturer could under such an agreement bid equally with an Italian manufacturer. (I do not know if specifically Italy has this, but I know that some governments do).
If you closed off your government's bidding process, wouldn't you lose this benefit abroad, as well as probably get penalized for violating trade treaties?
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The question of existing treaties is a good one. Our hands might be tied in some cases.
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This. In Spades.
I expect the public servants to spend MY money as if it were their own. The market does not demand that you you pay the least for whatever item you need or want. The market demands that you get the best value in the item that you need or want. Least Price =/= Best Value.
Yes.
Just because its Chinese made and cheaper, doesn't mean its a better value.
Side story- I bought a wash tub for $6 from Walmart a few weeks back. Being that I got such a handy item at such a low price made me pretty happy at first. I needed it for a project in my basement, so I was a just a little peeved to find that it leaked when I filled it with water.
This, like flags, is a piece of 5000+ year old technology- it took the bastard combination of American MBA and a chinese peasant to screw it up.
I can think of few more indecent things .gov could do than to present a flag to someone's nexct of kin that has the stars sewn on crooked or the stripes are falling off.
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This. In Spades.
I expect the public servants to spend MY money as if it were their own. The market does not demand that you you pay the least for whatever item you need or want. The market demands that you get the best value in the item that you need or want. Least Price =/= Best Value.
And this is why the United States has an official unemployment rate of 8.2 percent, and a real unemplyment rate that's probably two or three times higher. In this country we have a minimum wage and all kinds of work rules and such, whereas in China a lot of stuff is still made by what is effectively slave labor. There's no mystery about why they can make it cheaper -- body here is willing to work for $0.05 an hour.
The private market is what it is, but I think anything that is bought using tax dollars should be made in the U.S. -- I'd rather use my tax dollars to pay a bit more for a real product than have my tax dollars spent on "stimulus" programs that do nothing other than put more blood suckers on the Federal payroll.
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They say China is actually not the cheapest place to manufacture, anymore. If I correctly recall, super-cheap manufacturing can be had in Africa, now.
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They say China is actually not the cheapest place to manufacture, anymore. If I correctly recall, super-cheap manufacturing can be had in Africa, now.
India is supposed to be nice for that, too.
Unsurprisingly, both places are experiencing high economic growth.
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I'd prefer my tax dollars get the most value for my money. Just like my personal life, this usually means that the item in question will be made overseas.
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. . . There's no mystery about why they can make it cheaper -- nobody here is willing to work for $0.05 an hour. less than they get without working, from welfare, foodstamps, SSI and a myriad of other unearned entitlement programs.
FIFY.
I willingly pay a modest premium to get a good quality "Made in USA" product, but I'm not going to pay multiples of the price of an import.
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I'd prefer my tax dollars get the most value for my money. Just like my personal life, this usually means that the item in question will be made overseas.
Your personal life is made overseas? =D
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Your personal life is made overseas? =D
You've never heard of mail-order brides?
(On the other hand, it could be something . . . inflatable. :O )
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Your personal life is made overseas? =D
Err, put "in" in that sentence. ;)
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Your personal life is made overseas? =D
Micro's has to be.....he's got no green card & he can't speak Spanish....