Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: MrsSmith on July 18, 2012, 11:27:47 PM
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Have watched a couple episodes of this lately and I have to say, I'm not impressed. The things that irritate me the most:
- He spends an awful lot of time tramping around when he should be using his energy to catch food - which he sucks at. In each of the episodes I've seen, he's waited until day three or four without food to begin actively trying to feed himself. I suspect it's because he doesn't know much about feeding himself in the wild. Camps by a lake but doesn't try to gig frogs. Is in the woods with a gun but doesn't try to hunt for anything. Or tramps around in the woods in stead of finding a high perch and sitting still. Expends a lot of energy on a handful of leaves or roots when he could be catching meat if he knew how. Only one episode I've seen so far in which he has a gun, but then he doesn't use if for four days. What kind of *expletive deleted*it for brains goes into the woods without a gun? I know, I know, folks do it every day. Really ought to start letting Darwin sort that out.
- He's a lousy cook. Everything I've seen him cook so far, he puts a stick through the critter's head and hangs it vertically over a fire. That isn't how you cook over a fire. A bull frog will go on a spit or a forked stick easily enough and cooking the meat horizontally allows for even heating throughout so you don't burn off half of your meal and leave the other half raw. And don't even get me started on his methods for cleaning his prey or on eating bones instead of boiling them for broth. Geesh.
- He made a raft of three logs that wasn't even as wide as his shoulders were broad and thought he was going to stand up on it. Really? I'm not a physics genius, but even I can look at that and know it ain't gonna work. And it didn't.
- He made a weir to catch catfish or snapping turtles. For one thing, it wasn't in deep enough water. For another, you can catch one of those, but not both in the same trap. And a turtle can always climb the bank and get away if you don't close off that end too. He got lucky finding a turtle in it. If he wanted to teach folks something, teach them about what the hell you do with a turtle when you find one.
- He killed a snake by crushing it's head. Good. But he did it by swinging it from half way down the body. Bad. Should have kept hold of it behind the head and used a rock to crush it.
There's more but I wasn't taking notes. This is just what I recall. What really gets me though is that there's never any kind of message about what sort of things a person SHOULD have with them in these terrains. If he had my 3 day bag, there'd never be another show.
And that's my bitch for the day. Thank you for listening.
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It's TV. I wouldn't watch Gilligan's Island for survival tips either..... [tinfoil] [popcorn] ;)
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I don't know about that, I avoid caves because I learned from Gilligan and Co that all caves contain either a man-sized spider or a cursed idol. So who knows how many times I have not been placed in peril due to this lesson. Thanks, Little Buddy!
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Eh...
At least he's mostly the real deal unlike Bear. All alone for the week. And every shot he does, he's walking twice as much, to set up the cameras, get the shot, then go back and collect them.
And survival techniques of catching fish or small game for food. It's hard, even under ideal circumstances. IMO, you pretty much need to spend every day out in the wild doing it to be proficient enough to get your daily calories. And he is trying it in multiple climates and regions. Only a fraction of his shows are in his native Canada where presumably he's the most experienced.
And he's honest about his failures, or how you can even do everything right, but the deck is stacked against you.
He does do different themed shows, some where he has useful things like firearms like a "lost hunter", or does have different mixes of gear. The point being more when you didn't plan to be lost and don't have a full kit with you.
Compared to Bear Grylls who does something every five minutes in his show that will leave you stranded with broken legs if you trip and fall, Les Stroud is about as real-deal as it gets for TV.
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I agree with AJ. I've had a very limited amount of survival training courtesy of .gov. It ain't that easy. Les puts himself in "unprepared" situations as a demonstration. Not having a fire or not eating for a few days is much more realistic than cooking the wild boar you just speared and enjoying a roaring fire.
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I actually like the show. It's TV, not survival 101 so everything needs to be taken with a grain of salt of course.
But at least, unlike the other *expletive deleted*che, he doesn't routinely come across a dangerous situation and ask himself "what's most likely to kill me or break my leg or something equally traumatic?" and run with it. Les, usually, at least makes rational decisions.
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As for the killing of creatures for food - it was explained in season 1 that he will not do that to fluffy ones. Those that slither or swim seem to be OK. Strange, aint it?
And the rifle? He was forced by the Gooberment to take it in case some bear decided he looked especially tasty and slow - otherwise he would not have one near him.
If for nothing else, I give the guy points for his teaching on firewood - you can never have enough and need to have a metric sh!t-ton of it before you try to light your fire.
Some of his shelters are decent, but he would be better off carrying a barrel liner in his pocket. I know the basic premise of the show is to survive in unexpected situations, but also being unprepared is just downright headbanging-worthy. Fly across the Great White North without the mandated survival kit and the Mounties find out about it? You will be paying a big fine and possibly facing gaol (as they insist on spelling it). Go out on a boat without day/night signaling devices and the Coast Guard finds out? A stern talking to at the very least and possibly being brought aboard and the vessle towed home (and you paying for that).
I'm willing to bet I'm not the only APSer who, if their survival kit was in the trunk and the lid caved in, would be able to get into the trunk anyhow. (Cut through the lid or go in from the back seat.)
stay safe.
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As for the killing of creatures for food - it was explained in season 1 that he will not do that to fluffy ones. Those that slither or swim seem to be OK. Strange, aint it?
I remember in season 1 he talked about not liking to kill things. The one we watched last night was the "lost hunter" episode, which I think is season 2, and he and his buddy (first time I'd seen one where he had someone with him) shot a squirrel and what looked like a grouse, so his attitude might have changed.
I was right there with MrsSmith making fun of the raft he built, but he may do that kind of stuff to do a visual demo of what doesn't work. He's been doing this gig a long time, so when he does stuff like construct a quick, makeshift shelter, then the next morning talks about how cold he got and that the shelter was inadequate, and then enhances the shelter, that looks to me more like demonstrating to the viewer how to fix a mistake rather than him making the same mistake over and over.
I will say there's no excuse for the way he cooks some of his game. If you have a fire going, at least put the thing on a proper spit and cook it instead of burning it. :)
The hunter episode showed his buddy fishing in a lake with a hook, line and bait. They didn't catch anything all day. Been there, done that. Having fishing supplies doesn't mean you're going to catch something.
The hunter episode also showed Canadian SAR trying to find him (looked like they used the episode as a training opportunity for the SAR team). They talked about how the SAR team was right on their trail in the thick forest they were in, and if they would have hunkered down and waited, the SAR team would have caught up with them. Instead, they went looking for open ground so they could signal SAR. I might have done the latter myself depending on the situation. Can't signal a helo if you have a thick canopy above you. One might have argued that they should have stayed at the first lake where they were fishing, but they also talked about how many hunters that are picked up by SAR won't admit that they were lost, so the continued walking might again have been a "realistic" scenario for the SAR team.
As others have said, he may not be Mr. Survivor, but I like his show for realism much more than Grylls or stuff like "Man, Woman, Wild". That said, as far as survival shows go, I probably like "Dual Survival" the best. Though they sometimes put themselves in risky situations as well (though nowhere near what old Bear does / did), they do some pretty innovative stuff (like their space blanket and visquine shelter in their very first episode).
Les still gets major kudos for "going it alone" and leaving the support team far away.
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Another recommendation for Dual Survival. Of all the ones I have seen, this one is the most realistic, to me.
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I like "Man Woman Wild" for all the fellatio innuendo they work into the show, getting the wife to drink from improvised water sources. :rofl:
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I like the show myself.
He had one episode where he tried surviving in Canada in winter after a 'plane crash' and tried to get around faking like he had a broken leg.
He gave up on the broken leg charade very quickly, saying something to the effeect that he wouldn't/couldn't survive in such a situation with a broken leg. After a few days he gave up entirely and signalled for his team to pick him up because he couldn't take it anymore.
In another episode in a South American rainforest, he ran screaming like a little girl to the nearest native village because he spotted a jaguar near his camp.
He knows his limitations, which I can respect.
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I like the show myself.
He had one episode where he tried surviving in Canada in winter after a 'plane crash' and tried to get around faking like he had a broken leg.
He gave up on the broken leg charade very quickly, saying something to the effeect that he wouldn't/couldn't survive in such a situation with a broken leg. After a few days he gave up entirely and signalled for his team to pick him up because he couldn't take it anymore.
In another episode in a South American rainforest, he ran screaming like a little girl to the nearest native village because he spotted a jaguar near his camp.
He knows his limitations, which I can respect.
That is probably his A#1 best quality.
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Cleaning & skinning is something I wish I knew. Mr Ranch owner insist on shooting rattlesnakes for instance ( I would rather relocate them but its his property ) and I've tried skinning them, found it difficult. Same thing with the rabbit I shot a few yrs ago.
I can imagine an APS survival show .... "Now we take this explosive & throw it in the water and cook everything that floats to the top"
"To save money on ammo, use this Atlatl to get that Antelope, have Mrs Smith clean it/cook it because ( wink wink ) we don't know how"
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"To save money on ammo, use this Atlatl to get that Antelope, have Mrs Smith clean it/cook it because ( wink wink ) we don't know how"
Antelope sammiches >:D
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Cleaning & skinning is something I wish I knew. Mr Ranch owner insist on shooting rattlesnakes for instance ( I would rather relocate them but its his property ) and I've tried skinning them, found it difficult. Same thing with the rabbit I shot a few yrs ago.
I can imagine an APS survival show .... "Now we take this explosive & throw it in the water and cook everything that floats to the top"
"To save money on ammo, use this Atlatl to get that Antelope, have Mrs Smith clean it/cook it because ( wink wink ) we don't know how"
Skinning snakes & fluffy bunnies is fairly straight-forward and not too hard - especially if you have a pair of pliers. Start the snake by removing its hwead and relocating that - possibly to the fire if vengance floats your boat. Pick at the shin to get a piece loose, then grab with the pliers. Pull like a stubborn sock. It's the dealing with the innards that can be more problematic. Bunnies are basically the same, but you ought to either de-feet them or cut around the feetses to make it easier. YouTube is full of how-to videos.
stay safe.
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If I'm bored and watching survival TV, it will only be Les Stroud or Cody and Dave on Dual Survival. And I treat it very much like other survival information. Pick through the crap for the information that's worth while.
IIRC, Les Stroud said something early on about not pursuing big game on his shows because he's not in a true survival situation, so he sticks with small game, fish, and foraging for food. I can respect that.
Speaking of Les, anyone else seen the Camillus line of knives endorsed by him? I saw a couple at Gander Mountain the other day, next to the Bear/Gerber crap. Any word on the quality?
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If I'm bored and watching survival TV, it will only be Les Stroud or Cody and Dave on Dual Survival. And I treat it very much like other survival information. Pick through the crap for the information that's worth while.
IIRC, Les Stroud said something early on about not pursuing big game on his shows because he's not in a true survival situation, so he sticks with small game, fish, and foraging for food. I can respect that.
Speaking of Les, anyone else seen the Camillus line of knives endorsed by him? I saw a couple at Gander Mountain the other day, next to the Bear/Gerber crap. Any word on the quality?
Decent, usual Camillus quality. More than adequate for 99% of people/situations.
He also is endorsing/marketing some hatchets/axes, made by Wetterlings from Sweeden.
Gives me the impression he's largely trying to go the exact opposite direction of Bear, and his Chinostan Gerber stuff...
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Unfortunately, I think "Camillus" is gone these days and is just a brand name owned by a Chinese conglomerate. IIRC, they went under a few years ago. Shame really because they were making some neat designs.
Chris
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Unfortunately, I think "Camillus" is gone these days and is just a brand name owned by a Chinese conglomerate. IIRC, they went under a few years ago. Shame really because they were making some neat designs.
Chris
Acme United owns the Camillus name now, and they had a line of USA-made knives at the 2012 SHOT show this past January. Don't know if the Les Stroud line is part of that or not.
I get the sense Acme United is playing the game with the Camillus brand like Bokker is, the low end of the line is from Asia, and the high end America/Canada/Europe etc.
And of course, Asia/China hardly means "crap" automatically. All the rather sophisticated PC's and phones we're reading this message board came from there.
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Cleaning & skinning is something I wish I knew.
What kind of critters do you have where you live?
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What kind of critters do you have where you live?
Everyone should know how to skin a tree rat and stick it on a skewer. Even though the odds may be against actually hooking one they should know how to gut and cook the local species of fish.
For the bigger critters, either find someone who hunts and is willing to take on a slave or make nice talk with your local haalal market - they will insist on doing the killing but might be willing to laugh at your antics as you learn skinning and separating into major components - even if you are an infidel.
stay safe.
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I'm glad y'all find him entertaining. He's certainly better than a couple of the others out there. But I don't see the point of demonstrating how to do it wrong.
I think a more interesting show would be how folks like us would get by for a week with our BoBs or EDC kits. THAT would be interesting and educational! :)
Antelope sammiches >:D
I'm game. >:D
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Hooking a fish, or trapping one in a net or weir, isn't very hard.
Almost every body of water in the world that holds fish, the fish will eat local terrestrials: bugs, crickets, worms, grubs. Many of which are an easy catch by flipping over some rocks or what not.
Obviously, fishing in arid environments is a whole different ball of wax.
Almost any fish can be gutted with your fingers, cooked over an open fire without being filleted.
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fishing in arid environments is a whole different ball of wax
Rock Bass and Sand Trout ;)
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Hooking a fish, or trapping one in a net or weir, isn't very hard.
Almost every body of water in the world that holds fish, the fish will eat local terrestrials: bugs, crickets, worms, grubs. Many of which are an easy catch by flipping over some rocks or what not.
Obviously, fishing in arid environments is a whole different ball of wax.
Almost any fish can be gutted with your fingers, cooked over an open fire without being filleted.
I've never found it particularly hard to catch SOMETHING. It may be a ray or shark or something else I wouldn't eat in most circumstances, but I've hardly ever spent time with a line in the water and not caught something.
Didn't want to sound like I was bragging. It really isn't that difficult though. I can see how fly fishing, where there's apparently some skill involved, might be different, but just fishing the water column with local bait, you're going to catch something.
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Ray actually makes a decent meal...as do many sharks.
the key to sharks is to disembowel them immediately.
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Ray actually makes a decent meal...as do many sharks.
the key to sharks is to disembowel them immediately.
I've wondered about both. But when I've brought it up I've gotten those looks. You know. The "are you stupid?" looks. Good to know.
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Shark I'm not big on. Ray has a good bit of usable meat in the wings.
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Well, at least he's not Bear, walking away from his parachute and then two hours later trying to improvise shade in 120 deg heat or make a rope out of vines and such. Yeah I get that the helo lands and picks up his chute while dropping off camera dude, but still WTF? I can always learn something from either of them, I like Les Stroud better because he does not take insane risks with touchy stuff like gravity such as Bear does. I think all these shows over-emphasize food. Not even something to think about unless you think you will be stranded for longer than 4 days. 35 ways to get water? Hell yeah!
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Mako shark is really good. Right up there with Swordfish, or a really high quality tuna steak. Sharks are comprised of something north of 500 distinct species. I imagine some taste better than others.
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I've caught a lot of black tip sharks. They're pretty small. Can't imagine the meat being all that tender given how muscular they are. But they'll take any bait and in a survival situation, that's a good thing.
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What kind of critters do you have where you live?
All kinds, some are supposedly tasty.
If tshtf we would have lots of wild horse.
We have Deer/antelope/wild sheep.
Smaller game is Chuckar ( a local game bird, I've had some a friend deep fried) and some other game birds.
tons of rabbits/snakes/lizards - they would be easy to catch in survival situations.
Several fur species like lion/bobcats/lynxx
Even though its the desert we also have fish/frogs too!
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I also like all of these shows. Les Stroud's show is probably more realistic, but it is certainly not very exciting as entertainment. I refer to him as the "starving man". Gryllls takes too many risks which I think he does for the entertainment value. But I still think he is the real deal. He caught a lot of flack when it was discovered publically that he was motelling it verus sleeping out in the wild as presented in the show. But the show is still pretty instructional overall. Mykel Hawke is pretty good overall and I look forward to his new show on the Outdoor Channel. He does know this stuff and takes a very realistic approach to survival. Dual Survival (Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury) was an okay show. I got tired of the macho stuff Canterbury chose to do for entertainment value. He of course is gone from the show when it was discovered that he totally mis-represented himself. Lundin is the real deal and especially good in desert environments. I like the instructional scenes the most from Dual Survival.
Food gathering in the wild can be very difficult. I suspect I would starve. A 22 rifle would really come in handy.
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Food gathering in the wild can be very difficult.
Unless it is deep winter or you are injured (in which food gathering is going to be mostly impossible anyway), I can't imagine too many places outside of Alaska or the Amazon where you can't just walk out in a few hours or at least a day or two.
Even in Montana it is hard to find someplace where you could walk in one general direction for a couple days without running into a road or a ranch.
Okay, so you're lost - ever heard of following watercourses (even a dry one will do) downstream until you hit some sort of civilization ???
I suppose that it might be interesting to walk into the bush nekked for a weekend survival exercise :lol:
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Unless it is deep winter or you are injured (in which food gathering is going to be mostly impossible anyway), I can't imagine too many places outside of Alaska or the Amazon where you can't just walk out in a few hours or at least a day or two.
Even in Montana it is hard to find someplace where you could walk in one general direction for a couple days without running into a road or a ranch.
Okay, so you're lost - ever heard of following watercourses (even a dry one will do) downstream until you hit some sort of civilization ???
I suppose that it might be interesting to walk into the bush nekked for a weekend survival exercise :lol:
True, but the problem isn't b line distance.
THe problem is getting turned around or of course.
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I also like all of these shows. Les Stroud's show is probably more realistic, but it is certainly not very exciting as entertainment. I refer to him as the "starving man". Gryllls takes too many risks which I think he does for the entertainment value. But I still think he is the real deal. He caught a lot of flack when it was discovered publically that he was motelling it verus sleeping out in the wild as presented in the show. But the show is still pretty instructional overall. Mykel Hawke is pretty good overall and I look forward to his new show on the Outdoor Channel. He does know this stuff and takes a very realistic approach to survival. Dual Survival (Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury) was an okay show. I got tired of the macho stuff Canterbury chose to do for entertainment value. He of course is gone from the show when it was discovered that he totally mis-represented himself. Lundin is the real deal and especially good in desert environments. I like the instructional scenes the most from Dual Survival.
Food gathering in the wild can be very difficult. I suspect I would starve. A 22 rifle would really come in handy.
Never heard of Mykel Hawke but will definitely look him up now. My first thought was that because he's on the Outdoor Channel and not one of the "mainstream" channels, it might be worth watching.
I hadn't heard about Dave Canterbury's misrepresenting himself. Let me guess, not quite as much military background as he let on? That was my thought when I first watched the show. Having spent an awful lot of time with the real deal, he came across more as a wannabe. The whining, the inability to be more of a team player, and just his tactics. I chalked it up to the fact that he had to work with Lundin, an obvious hippy, who probably smells. Though as distasteful as I find Lundin, he does know his *expletive deleted*it and I did learn a few things.
I still don't think food gathering in the wild would be difficult. But I ate as much wild game as domestic meat when I was a kid, had skinned my first squirrel at the age of four, caught my first fish at six, and grew up in a rather hardscrabble environment. Starving in the wilderness honestly doesn't concern me - if I have at least some gear, preferably a .22 rifle and a rod with spinning reel. And a knife.
As to getting lost. I agree with Tallpine. If you have half a brain, you can walk out of most places. I'll concede to getting confused at times with regard to having the wrong mindset. I have to stop and think here because the ocean is in the wrong place, and had trouble in Ohio because the river flowed west, not east like the Savannah. But once I stop and clear my head, it's easy. I've never been lost - there've been times when I had to figure out where I was, but did so quickly. That's also why my first priority when I'm in a new location is to study a map and commit the lay of the land to memory. Everyone laughs at me for it. "Why do you want a map? You have GPS on your phone, or just look at Google maps on your computer." Nope. I want to see the big picture then turn it on it's side and see it from ground level, if that makes sense. The only places I could see myself having trouble are in a vast desert with an unbroken landscape (but I'd still have the sun and stars/moon), or in a place like the Grand Canyon or some of the rocky landscapes in West Texas where there are fewer waterways. And the biggest danger there would be morale because I've never found those landscapes inviting and I'm fully aware of how vast it is. It could begin to seem hopeless after a time if I didn't keep a firm grip on my attitude.
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Unless it is deep winter or you are injured (in which food gathering is going to be mostly impossible anyway), I can't imagine too many places outside of Alaska or the Amazon where you can't just walk out in a few hours or at least a day or two.
Even in Montana it is hard to find someplace where you could walk in one general direction for a couple days without running into a road or a ranch.
Okay, so you're lost - ever heard of following watercourses (even a dry one will do) downstream until you hit some sort of civilization ???
I suppose that it might be interesting to walk into the bush nekked for a weekend survival exercise :lol:
Northern Nevada is one of the few places where walking out will get you killed unless you're really really good and well prepared. Just a month or two ago two men out for a sunday drive got stranded in an isolated area - one stayed with the car and lived the other walked and died., last year in March I believe I posted a story of a canadian couple who tried to use a dirt road and got stuck, she nearly died from starvation he walked and was never seen again. Where I live you can see lights off in the distance, its a gold mine 60 or so miles away, if one was lost out here and attempted to walk there without carrying lots of water - you'd never make it - but out here the smart thing to do would be climb a hill and see if there are any close lights, the couple were 14 miles away from a ranch - but didn't know. They didn't know about survival at all, instead of a fire for warmth/signal she ran the car until it ran out of gas and never figured out how to start a fire. She was near a creek with fish/frogs and nearly starved to death - heck after a couple of days without food I would be eating roasted grasshopper and every bug.
Being that Mrs Smith wasn't there I would be roasting the mice les stroud style
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Rock Bass and Sand Trout
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnorthernfishing.net%2Fimg%2Frockbass01.gif&hash=e7330c5fb2525ee6a4bb088ccc911bc8c438e32c)
^rock bass^
good eating.
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Well, at least he's not Bear, walking away from his parachute and then two hours later trying to improvise shade in 120 deg heat or make a rope out of vines and such. Yeah I get that the helo lands and picks up his chute while dropping off camera dude, but still WTF? I can always learn something from either of them, I like Les Stroud better because he does not take insane risks with touchy stuff like gravity such as Bear does. I think all these shows over-emphasize food. Not even something to think about unless you think you will be stranded for longer than 4 days. 35 ways to get water? Hell yeah!
Bear is a joke, and dangerous. Free running through Moab? Jumping in a frigid fast running river? Swimming under a logjam in a slot canyon? Priceless stupidity.
Oh and when he jumped in that river in the sierras you can clearly see he is wearing a life jacket under his clothes.
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Bear is a joke, and dangerous. Free running through Moab? Jumping in a frigid fast running river? Swimming under a logjam in a slot canyon? Priceless stupidity.
Oh and when he jumped in that river in the sierras you can clearly see he is wearing a life jacket under his clothes.
Yep. I honestly think he takes a look at something and comes up with several possible options.
He then picks the one that is most likely to kill, main, or seriously injure. All, or course, are bad juju when trying to survive while making it to town or to be found and rescued. But then, that option is usually the most entertaining...
I literally lost count of the number of times I was yelling at the TV that he was a jackass. I particularly like the several times he's jumped off a cliff or waterfall into water below that is (presumably, assuming a survival situation) of unknown depth and hazards. Sure, walking around and down might eat up time and suck a bit but it's better then breaking a leg when you jump 30 feet down into two feet of water and land on a freaking boulder. I also particularly liked the "lets slide down the snow on this big ass mountain and use just this ice ax to make sure we don't go to fast while trying to dodge these boulders poking through the snow! WHHEEEEEEEE!" Alaska episode.