Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: RoadKingLarry on August 05, 2012, 10:36:46 PM
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Landing scheduled for Monday. I have my fingers crossed and really hope this goes well but dang it is one complicated operation.
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/08/04/nasa-spacecraft-speeding-toward-mars-landing/?intcmp=features (http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/08/04/nasa-spacecraft-speeding-toward-mars-landing/?intcmp=features)
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A successful landing!!!
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(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimgs.xkcd.com%2Fcomics%2Fcuriosity.png&hash=38c7ee5c2b27178d4e23c9638740165b8f00a2ac)
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One of the few times when AWESOME is appropriate.
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Nuclear powered rover. I am impressed
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Size of a small car. That is a big launch package.
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Size of a small car. That is a big launch package.
That's what she said.
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Size of a small car. That is a big launch package.
One can tell the size, and aggressive mass-fraction of the mission when you looked at the cruise phase support bus, and the entire thing was mainly just the aeroshell.
I was also impressed with Nasa's Java mission tracker app. It was amazingly complete. The roations/maneuvers of the spacecraft, ejection of the cruise stage, atmospheric entry, heat shield separation, parachute, the skycrane lowering etc. That was pretty amazing.
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As much as I gripe about greater NASA getting overly involved with social issues like AGW, their core technology groups still impress the hell out of me. This is a stellar example.
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Awesome stuff!
Nasa's Java mission tracker app
I'll have to check that out.
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All 3 of the Mars rovers. Original photo: http://www.dvorak.org/blog/images/mars_rovers.jpg (http://www.dvorak.org/blog/images/mars_rovers.jpg)
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dvorak.org%2Fblog%2Fimages%2Fmars_rovers.jpg&hash=72744f581ba566aa08d710b9e2c48ff9a0c35b3c)
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^^^ Now that is a great picture. It gives you a sense of the size difference between the models. That Curiosity is a good-sized unit.
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Ummm... if anyone has any questions, I can forward them. One of my BACA brothers was on the team...
Actually, I'll just see if he'd be willing to register here. He's our kind of crazy...
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I'm still pretty geeked out about this.
Being able to pull of what on the surface looks like a Rube Goldberg skit and sticking the landing gives me a sense of pride in human ability in general and American ingenuity in particular.
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This is a stellar example.
This is a planetary example. SOHO is a stellar example.
:P
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As much as I gripe about greater NASA getting overly involved with social issues like AGW, their core technology groups still impress the hell out of me. This is a stellar example.
More correctly, this is a "Martian" example. We haven't landed a rover on a star yet.
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^^^ Now that is a great picture. It gives you a sense of the size difference between the models. That Curiosity is a good-sized unit.
The US has finally managed to land an SUV on Mars :lol:
I wonder if this thing meets fed.gov mandated mileage and safety standards? :P
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The US has finally managed to land an SUV on Mars :lol:
I wonder if this thing meets fed.gov mandated mileage and safety standards? :P
Why yes it has, since it has the nuclear generator powering it.
http://www.technologyreview.com/view/428751/nuclear-generator-powers-curiosity-mars-mission/ (http://www.technologyreview.com/view/428751/nuclear-generator-powers-curiosity-mars-mission/)
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Love RTGs. Simple and reliable.
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Ummm... if anyone has any questions, I can forward them. One of my BACA brothers was on the team...
Actually, I'll just see if he'd be willing to register here. He's our kind of crazy...
I can answer some as well, a close friend is on the chemcam team from LANL, and I've worked closely with JPL on planetary exploration in the past. (as a consultant for NASA-HQ)
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That the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter actually got pictures of Curiosity and it's parachute in mid-air is also really, really, cool...
http://news.discovery.com/space/big-pic-curiosity-msl-parachute-spotted-hirise-120806.html
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It’s designed to run at least one Martian year, which is almost two Earth years.
It should be able to run much longer than that. Look at what the Voyager probes have pulled off.
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It should be able to run much longer than that. Look at what the Voyager probes have pulled off.
Mechanical wear and tear, plus dust is a bit different for a rover than a probe just coasting in space. However, I suspect you're right. NASA's estimates are usually conservative in these matters.
The previous rovers weren't nearly as robust, nor nuclear, and they far exceeded the initial mission times allotted.
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(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgooglepixel.com%2Fimages%2FironyUFO.jpg&hash=f351961d70d491506f2a6c094aa8f8792b4b5696)
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(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgooglepixel.com%2Fimages%2FironyUFO.jpg&hash=f351961d70d491506f2a6c094aa8f8792b4b5696)
Ha Ha! Looks like the "Jupiter 2" from that old "Lost in Space" program!! :rofl: :facepalm: :facepalm: [tinfoil] [popcorn]
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nice pic with the three rovers. i knew curiosity is bigger, but i didn't realize the size difference between the other two. i am curious as to why they went with a reactor rather than solar? was it strictly a weight/size issue?
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nice pic with the three rovers. i knew curiosity is bigger, but i didn't realize the size difference between the other two. i am curious as to why they went with a reactor rather than solar? was it strictly a weight/size issue?
Mars is marginal for Solar Power even under ideal circumstances, like... in space in Mars orbit where you can get sunlight 24/7. On the surface where it's night half the time, and there's also Martian dust which gets on the panels too. Plus, you can't drive or explore and guarantee the panels are even close to their ideal angle for the sun. And like Earth, Mars has seasons too, so there's a winter (about twice as long) where that hemisphere is getting sunlight at an even lower angle. The earlier solar rovers even got "saved" once or twice by a lucky wind storm (such as it is, about the half a percent the pressure as Earth sea-level..) cleaning the dust off the panels allowing them to get more work out of the rover.
The inverse square law by which light and electromagnetic radiation is a bitch. Mars is half again as far out from the sun as Earth is.
The other problem is the extreme cold. It affects science instruments and electronics, motors etc. and trying to warm things up with solar and batteries (which also take a hit from the cold) is a huge power drain. Or you just don't do it at all. The nuclear RTG allows for a lot more power, and a reliable source of heat to keep things running better. Probes operating around Mars and further often have Plutonium pellets that are not part of the main RTG secreted about their structure so waste heat can transmit through it's mass and keep things just warm enough so they don't seize up.
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I am not certain that I would call a radioisotope thermoelectric generator a nuclear reactor, per se.
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I am not certain that I would call a radioisotope thermoelectric generator a nuclear reactor, per se.
Regardless, when can I get one to run my pickup ???
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There are still some 'forgotten' ones along the Siberian coast, where they were used by the Soviets to power automated lighthouses and navigation beacons. I wonder if they are now guarded by giant mutated polar bears from the radiation leakage......
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IIRC Chesapeake Light off Virgina Beach is "nuke powered".
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I am not certain that I would call a radioisotope thermoelectric generator a nuclear reactor, per se.
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Is that a compressed plutonium isotope encased in a thermocouple? Or is this something new?
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Is that a compressed plutonium isotope encased in a thermocouple? Or is this something new?
Not compressed. The standard NASA RTGs use a plutonium-238 dioxide ceramic fuel pellet encased in iridium, with two of those embedded in a carbon-carbon block. A bunch of those are surrounded by thermocouples and radiator fins. the heat source is the GPHS-RTG (general purpose heat source--RTG)
The same pellets and cases are used singly for heating in the previous rovers.
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Not compressed. The standard NASA RTGs use a plutonium-238 dioxide ceramic fuel pellet encased in iridium, with two of those embedded in a carbon-carbon block. A bunch of those are surrounded by thermocouples and radiator fins. the heat source is the GPHS-RTG (general purpose heat source--RTG)
The same pellets and cases are used singly for heating in the previous rovers.
;) Thanks Birdman!
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Probes operating around Mars and further often have Plutonium pellets that are not part of the main RTG secreted about their structure so waste heat can transmit through it's mass and keep things just warm enough so they don't seize up.
The Lunar rovers took radioisotope heating of thermally critical elements to the Nth degree by using Po-210 for those elements. A single kilogram of Po-210 puts out enough thermal energy to melt and then vaporize itself, something on the order of 140 kilowatts. Pretty short duration though with a 138 day half-life.