Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Jamie B on August 20, 2012, 08:56:23 AM
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http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/gop-senate-candidate-says-misspoke-legitimate-rape-005818070.html
"First of all, from what I understand from doctors [pregnancy after rape] is really rare," Akin told KTVI-TV in defense of his stand that rape victims should not be allowed to access abortions. "If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down."
Akin said that even if a rape victim does somehow become pregnant, "I think there should be some punishment, but the punishment ought to be on the rapist and not attacking the child."
I saw this interview this morning on the news.
Akin can kiss this race goodbye.
What an idiot!
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FWIW, I voted for someone else in the primary.
This should always be an easy answer. Something like, "I hope you're not suggesting that a small child should be lynched for his father's crime." Done. :cool:
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Is what you quoted what he is being criticized for?
Is it that 1) he has a hard abortion stance, or 2) that he said "legitamite" and thereby suggested that some women actually lie about rape?
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Is what you quoted what he is being criticized for?
Is it that 1) he has a hard abortion stance, or 2) that he said "legitamite" and thereby suggested that some women actually lie about rape?
Or 3.) that a woman can somehow, miracuously, "shut down" her body in a way that somehow, miracuously, prevents pregnancy due to being raped. [tinfoil]
Even Goerge Noory on Coast-to-CoastAM wouldn't touch this..... >:D
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Is what you quoted what he is being criticized for?
Is it that 1) he has a hard abortion stance, or 2) that he said "legitamite" and thereby suggested that some women actually lie about rape?
I think what he meant is that in forcible rape (that is, the kind where a woman is violently raped, rather than for example drugged and taken advantage of, which is also awful), the woman is less likely to become pregnant.
Whether or not this is true (There is some research to suggest it might be), the way he said it sounded downright awful.
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And, naturally, his opponent is a woman.
Also, I think "gaffe" is the preferred spelling.
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And, naturally, his opponent is a woman.
Also, I think "gaffe" is the preferred spelling.
Yeah ... was wondering what this had to do with sailboats ???
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If he wanted to give Claire a gift, he should have went with a fruit basket or a gift card instead.
jim
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OK, how many weeks will MSNBC run frothing at the mouth with this. If George Allen's racist remark a few years back is any indication that'd be a lot. Meanwhile ain't nobody here but us crickets on Uncle Joe "Put y'all back in chains" Biden.
This guy, he's an idiot and just lost. Good for him. Love to see everyone now try to tie it around Romney's neck.
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And, naturally, his opponent is a woman.
Also, I think "gaffe" is the preferred spelling.
Cough, cough - Oh, look over there.
Sometimes the brain and fingers are separated by stupid........
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but did he go swimming in the nip?
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Ah... Wow. That's really insulting on so many levels I'm not sure where to start.
Best part?
Republican perspective: This guy is insane.
Democrat perspective: Republicans are insane.
Pretty much how most posters on here react to gun control sponsored by a Democrat. It's not "Senator So and So is evil.", it's "Democrats are evil". When it's your side, the individual screwed up. When it's the other side, the entire other side is screwed up.
Right or wrong, comments like that do spread the perception that Republicans in general are not overly supportive of women. The MSM does its best to further that. But the Republicans do their best to help out the MSM in these kinds of occurrences.
Disclaimer: I'm not saying I support Dems or Republicans. Both are equally bad in different ways. I just always find the huge blind spot to be hysterical, in that humans very rarely are any good at noticing deficiencies in their own side but quite adapt at finding them in opposition.
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N
B
C
had a bit this AM on the congresscritter who went skinny dippin' in the ME. The lead in to the story was breathless and frantic as if radar had begun tracking Russian nukes on the way. :facepalm:
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Republicans in general are not overly supportive of women.
Republicans do support women.
Sure don't want them out wearing pants and working for a living =D
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Even that comment, I am just not seeing the outrage or the insult. I have heard much worse things about rape. And instead of everyone jumping on the "I'm Insulted!" bandwagon, some frank discussion of the facts would be better. He was trying to use that idea as an argument against abortion exceptions for victims of rape. He was wrong and didn't have his facts right on that part apparently. I am still not seeing the big insult.
To me it is just an indicator of the state of politics today. You can't even begin to discuss any sensitive or emotionally charged subject without someone getting outraged or insulted whether you actually said anything or not. And then we wonder why politicians never actually say anything substantive in their speeches and interviews.
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Todd Akin's been in Congress since 2001. It's not like he's new at this. You'd think he would be better in an interview by this time. :facepalm:
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Republicans do support women.
Sure don't want them out wearing pants and working for a living =D
Actually, Republicans like their women to wear white, like the rest of their appliances. =D
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The sad thing is that the "Stupid Party" nickname appear to apply today to a lot of Republicans around the country who are calling for this guy to drop out of the race. They don't even know yet what the voters there think about it, yet they are jumping on the stupid bandwagon. This is a senate seat they really need and they want to give it up without a fight.
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The sad thing is that the "Stupid Party" nickname appear to apply today to a lot of Republicans around the country who are calling for this guy to drop out of the race. They don't even know yet what the voters there think about it, yet they are jumping on the stupid bandwagon. This is a senate seat they really need and they want to give it up without a fight.
Hypersensitivity + paranoia + lack of common sense = lack of conviction.
Politicians all need to be on a spine donor list these days.....
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The sad thing is that the "Stupid Party" nickname appear to apply today to a lot of Republicans around the country who are calling for this guy to drop out of the race. They don't even know yet what the voters there think about it, yet they are jumping on the stupid bandwagon.
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Really? If more than a handful of folks don't think the guy is an incompetent tool, our country is seriously in trouble.
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our country is seriously in trouble.
FTFY.
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Really? If more than a handful of folks don't think the guy is an incompetent tool, our country is seriously in trouble.
But compared to his opponent, he's Gandhi.
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Even that comment, I am just not seeing the outrage or the insult.
Well, let me try to break it on down for ya...
"Legitimate (not ok) rape" leads one to believe that there's a mysterious form of "illigitimate (it's ok) rape" going on out there.
And from what he said, even in the event of the not-ok kind of rape, a woman's body has the miraculous ability to override that little bit of rape-horror and make everything ok by not letting itself get pregnant.
No harm, no foul, right?
Ergo, if the woman gets raped and winds up pregnant, she must have wanted it/been asking for it because her body didn't take control and issue an "abort! abort!"
Therein lies the insult...to a substantial part of the population.
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some balance:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19323783
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Well, let me try to break it on down for ya...
"Legitimate (not ok) rape" leads one to believe that there's a mysterious form of "illigitimate (it's ok) rape" going on out there.
And from what he said, even in the event of the not-ok kind of rape, a woman's body has the miraculous ability to override that little bit of rape-horror and make everything ok by not letting itself get pregnant.
No harm, no foul, right?
Ergo, if the woman gets raped and winds up pregnant, she must have wanted it/been asking for it because her body didn't take control and issue an "abort! abort!"
Therein lies the insult...to a substantial part of the population.
Ayup! Legitimate rape (whatever that is), forcible rape and rape are the same thing, unless you are just stoopid.
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The sad thing is that the "Stupid Party" nickname appear to apply today to a lot of Republicans around the country who are calling for this guy to drop out of the race. They don't even know yet what the voters there think about it, yet they are jumping on the stupid bandwagon. This is a senate seat they really need and they want to give it up without a fight.
He is toasted crispies. The only chance of having an R in that seat is to grab someone now, get him out there and punch Akin in the face if he tries to endorse the new guy. No way he will recover.
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I don't see how "legitimate rape" can be interpreted in any other way than "an actual rape, not the kind where the woman is lying." ???
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Fistful, go to your local sexual assault support group, and ask them some questions. You would not BELIEVE some of the notions some folks have about the word "rape"
Seriously... I would rather you and I get drunk and argue abortion, than deal with what some folks believe about rape
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Fistful, go to your local sexual assault support group, and ask them some questions. You would not BELIEVE some of the notions some folks have about the word "rape"
Seriously... I would rather you and I get drunk and argue abortion, than deal with what some folks believe about rape
OK. Now I am curious.
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He is toasted crispies. The only chance of having an R in that seat is to grab someone now, get him out there and punch Akin in the face if he tries to endorse the new guy. No way he will recover.
He was 11 points up before this from what I heard. We'll see. If the GOP doesn't actively try to torpedo him, he may recover. The question to me is can he weather the media onslaught and manage to remind voters why they didn't want to vote for a liberal Democrat a week ago.
The local radio guy down here recounted several different times where Democrat candidates did or said something completely stupid yet the Dems didn't abandon them and they got elected. He was railing on the GOP was having zero courage to fight at all. I think I agree with him.
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The local radio guy down here recounted several different times where Democrat candidates did or said something completely stupid yet the Dems didn't abandon them and they got elected. He was railing on the GOP was having zero courage to fight at all. I think I agree with him.
I'm not saying Akin should go (yet), but aren't both of you forgetting that the media is a huge factor in how important a gaffe is?
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The local radio guy down here recounted several different times where Democrat candidates did or said something completely stupid yet the Dems didn't abandon them and they got elected. He was railing on the GOP was having zero courage to fight at all. I think I agree with him.
Dems can get away with it, Rs cannot.
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Yea. A lot of folks don't believe that he made a blunder or mistake in his comments. That he actually believes what he said, just that his phrasing was perhaps not ideal. His apology appears to reflect this. Actually, he didn't release an apology, he released a statement that he misspoke during the interview. So, considering he did not apparently retract his comment... Uhm. Wow.
Hard to blame the media on this one. You could easily blame the media if he acknowledged that he said something stupid, offensive and apparently not scientifically valid. He didn't retract anything. Or acknowledge that his comments were "insulting, inexcusable, and, frankly, wrong." (According to Romney) Even the "My comments were taken out of context" trick wouldn't fly here.
I'm frankly surprised by how many folks here are not understanding the depths of how badly this guy screwed up. The correct answer when "your side" screws up to this extent is not to whine that the "other side" does horrible things to. The correct answer to this particular incident is to direct hellfire on target. Evil is evil. "But he is one of us, so he should get leniency!" I personally reject this view. I always hold any affiliation or associate to a higher morality. Or I cast them out.
"I am just not seeing the outrage or the insult."
I have no words to even begin to articulate the depths of how wrong this entire thought process is. LadySmith gave it a valid and worthy try. My hats off to you, LS. Same goes for the jokes about women as appliances in this context. I believe everything should be subject to humor, because the horrors of reality are best faced with humor. But decorum says a lot as well. A joke about a dead friend at the bar is one thing, often of sad but affectionate remember. Said at the person's funeral, it could easily be seen as a direct and cutting insult depending on the delivery. Even the same words, inflected in two different ways, could be answered (correctly, from my morality) with a friendly pat on the back or excellent shot placement to the nasal cavity.
Timing, decorum and perception (or intentional lack thereof) say much about a person's morality.
Respectfully, that's why I carry and encourage others to carry. Because not everyone on the planet has a fully developed sense of morality, in that equal baseline treatment should be extended to every human until that human personally does something to alter the balance. APS members, in my opinion, are generally more honorable than most random collections of folks that I've ever met. But even here, there are gaps of perception. I would say honor or morality, but that's merely my perception. While likely or hopefully not dangerous, always something to keep in mind.
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One thing that a local commentator mentioned is that Republican's are really bad at picking up their wounded from the battlefield.
Joe Biden talks about "putting y'all back in chains". At it just gets passed off as "Crazy ol' Uncle Joe".
Campaigns are long and grueling. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
And as to "legitimate rape". I took it that he meant actual rape. Not "Regret Sex" or the like.
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Well, let me try to break it on down for ya...
"Legitimate (not ok) rape" leads one to believe that there's a mysterious form of "illigitimate (it's ok) rape" going on out there.
And from what he said, even in the event of the not-ok kind of rape, a woman's body has the miraculous ability to override that little bit of rape-horror and make everything ok by not letting itself get pregnant.
No harm, no foul, right?
Ergo, if the woman gets raped and winds up pregnant, she must have wanted it/been asking for it because her body didn't take control and issue an "abort! abort!"
Therein lies the insult...to a substantial part of the population.
And yet, Akin's comments (as awful as they were) never came close to suggesting that rape is OK, so long as no one gets pregnant. But that is what you seem to be ascribing to him.
Akin's comments (as awful as they were) specifically took into account that the mysterious rape anti-pregnancy mechanism did not always work. So how could anyone take from that, that he is blaming pregnant rape victims for "wanting it"?
Not to mention his whole point was that rape pregnancies are rare (by which he acknowledges that they do happen). So what are these scary beliefs that RevDisk says he hasn't retracted? Is it now a sin for a politician to have been misled on matters gynecological, even if they can't realistically affect his politics? Is it now wrong for politicians to insist that rapists be held accountable?
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Well, here's my take on it:
1) It seems to me, from what I understand from doctors, that’s really rare
Reaching for BS when he has no idea.
Just because he believes that it is rare does not eliminate the impact of a child from rape being a very difficult issue for a woman.
Some might believe that it is sufficient grounds for an abortion.
2) If it is a legitimate rape
There is no delineation when it comes to rape - it is a vile and evil act.
The fact that he might try and legitimate rape in some way seemed quite ignorant.
Rape is rape.
3) A woman's body has ways to shut that down
This is so unbelievably ignorant I cannot believe that anyone would actually say it.
It shows a complete lack of knowledge about how conception really happens.
It also infers that if the woman does not stop the pregnancy, that it is her fault.
This ignorance alone makes me doubt his ability to actually make any intelligent decisions.
Bottom line is that any adult like this, especially one whose decisions affect others, has no business making any decisions for anyone other than himself.
He is truly a complete tool.
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matters gynelogical
You have now misspelled that word so badly that I have no clue what it's supposed to be =D
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The only way I can read this as a mis-statement is if he meant actual, you know, *rape* as opposed to, "omg I just slept with you and now I regret it and clearly YOU RAPED ME!" or "OMG we had sex and now I'm pregnant and I must have been raped!" or just a complete fabrication, ala the Duke Lacrosse team. If *that* is what he meant as a "legitimate rape" then I'll forgive him the misstatement. Because yeah, it was a stupid way to phrase things, but I understand his meaning. I don't agree with his logic/biology regarding "shutting that whole thing down".
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Sometimes you get a glimpse into the real soul of a person.
In this case, we did, and he is not reasonably intelligent by any means.
If he can't understand basic conception, then more complex matters will be over his head completely.
This is my basic gripe about him - he is quite stoopid.
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The only way I can read this as a mis-statement is if he meant actual, you know, *rape* as opposed to, "omg I just slept with you and now I regret it and clearly YOU RAPED ME!" or "OMG we had sex and now I'm pregnant and I must have been raped!" or just a complete fabrication, ala the Duke Lacrosse team. If *that* is what he meant as a "legitimate rape" then I'll forgive him the misstatement. Because yeah, it was a stupid way to phrase things, but I understand his meaning.
Why did he open his mouth at all?
Maybe we should just encourage politicians to talk more so we can get to this sooner:
Sometimes you get a glimpse into the real soul of a person.
In this case, we did, and he is not reasonably intelligent by any means.
The guy apparantly has been a congressman for quite some time, and while being a complete halfwit, he's not the dumbest congresscrittter by far. No wonder our country is so screwed up. =(
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Why did he open his mouth at all?
Maybe we should just encourage politicians to talk more so we can get to this sooner:
The guy apparantly has been a congressman for quite some time, and while being a complete halfwit, he's not the dumbest congresscrittter by far. No wonder our country is so screwed up. =(
Yea - remember the idiot asking the general in a televised briefing why the island did not tip over?
http://washingtonscene.thehill.com/in-the-know/36-news/3169-rep-hank-johnson-guam-could-tip-over-and-capsize
=D =D =D
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To me, the primary was a toss-up between this guy, Brunner, and Steelman. I went with Brunner, but Steelman seems like a good replacement candidate. Her being a girl, and everything.
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Yea - remember the idiot asking the general in a televised briefing why the island did not tip over?
http://washingtonscene.thehill.com/in-the-know/36-news/3169-rep-hank-johnson-guam-could-tip-over-and-capsize
Oh my, I had no idea... :O :O I was using Gwen Moore as my gold standard for stump stupid- until right now.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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I would actually give this guy a pass, if he hadn't opened his mouth about how the woman's body can "shut that down".
For the sake of discussion, let's say that abortion is again illegal save instances of rape, incest, or severe risk to the mother.
Jane takes Dave back to her place. Things happen. She gets knocked up, and has to claim rape to get an abortion. Hence "illegitimate rape"
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I don't see how "legitimate rape" can be interpreted in any other way than "an actual rape, not the kind where the woman is lying." ???
Because if the woman is lying, it is not rape. It is an accusation of rape.
C'mon now Fistful, don't be obtuse.
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Well, yeah, if he'd spoken more clearly we wouldn't be talking about this, would we?
Of course, I suspect most such rapes are still in the accusation stage, when abortion is being considered.
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Well, our politician making stupid comments about rape did it in a much more unintentionally hilarious way than yours did.
Go Team GB!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/video/2012/aug/21/george-galloway-julian-assange-sexual-rape-video
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(There is some research to suggest it might be)
No there is not one scintilla of evidence that this is true. There are some people with absolutely no scientific credibility who make the claim, but they are either deliberately lying or complete fools.
22,000 women become pregnant every year from rape. Akin would rather their lives be ruined than that they have an abortion. He justifies this abysmal be claiming that these women (and children) really asked for it.
The best description for people who hold these views is evil.
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Oh, boy
*looks for solid object to hide behind*
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(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi328.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl342%2F1k_wayne%2Fjunk%2Fstanding_by.gif&hash=45377f81fc2922c467bf740a352b68e57d87ce40)
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Does it seem to anyone else that Akin's back-pedaling on his statements is being ignored, so that ax-grinders can treat them as a policy position he's staked out and still stands by?
Then there are the people who don't seem to know what he actually said, so they are free to embellish.
22,000 women become pregnant every year from rape. Akin would rather their lives be ruined than that they have an abortion. He justifies this abysmal be claiming that these women (and children) really asked for it.
Not true, actually. Here is a transcript of the offensive comments, as reported in a New York Times article.
It seems to me, from what I understand from doctors, that’s really rare,” Mr. Akin said of pregnancies from rape. “If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down. But let’s assume that maybe that didn’t work or something: I think there should be some punishment, but the punishment ought to be of the rapist, and not attacking the child.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/20/us/politics/todd-akin-provokes-ire-with-legitimate-rape-comment.html
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The only way I can read this as a mis-statement is if he meant actual, you know, *rape* as opposed to, "omg I just slept with you and now I regret it and clearly YOU RAPED ME!" or "OMG we had sex and now I'm pregnant and I must have been raped!" or just a complete fabrication, ala the Duke Lacrosse team. If *that* is what he meant as a "legitimate rape" then I'll forgive him the misstatement. Because yeah, it was a stupid way to phrase things, but I understand his meaning. I don't agree with his logic/biology regarding "shutting that whole thing down".
I don't know why anyone should assume he meant anything else unless they are thinking solely with emotions or assuming the absolute worst.
As for the "shutting down the pregnancy" thing, if he can't figure out how to back away from that or admit he was mistaken, he is too stupid to win anyway.
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fistfull, since you are closer to this than I am, does it look like he is or will lose ground to the Democrat or do the voters there not care about it? I am sure there will be polling out soon.
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No there is not one scintilla of evidence that this is true. There are some people with absolutely no scientific credibility who make the claim, but they are either deliberately lying or complete fools.
22,000 women become pregnant every year from rape. Akin would rather their lives be ruined than that they have an abortion. He justifies this abysmal be claiming that these women (and children) really asked for it.
The best description for people who hold these views is evil.
The last year I can find stats for tells me that there were 84000 in the US in 2010.
I'm amazed that one out of four rapes results in a pregnancy. Can you tell me the source of that statistic?
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The last year I can find stats for tells me that there were 84000 in the US in 2010.
I'm amazed that one out of four rapes results in a pregnancy. Can you tell me the source of that statistic?
???
I've heard 5% of rapes result in pregnancy. Seems a more "believable" number, to me.......atleast.
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No there is not one scintilla of evidence that this is true. There are some people with absolutely no scientific credibility who make the claim, but they are either deliberately lying or complete fools.
Indeed. I'd be very interested to see a (actually, several) studies preformed under reasonably controlled conditions that shows his statement to be true in a statistically significant quantity. Near as I can find, it's touted by the same kind of nuts who think homeopathy works, vaccinations are bad, aspartame causes cancer, GMO foods are evil or that astrology actually means anything. In general, people who hold positions based on anecdotes and aren't supported by any scientific evidence. I do not want that kind of person anywhere near a position where they can influence public policy. They are dangerous and should be treated as such.
Edited for spelling.
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Interesting thoughts.
http://www.xojane.com/it-happened-to-me/dear-representative-todd-akin-i-got-pregnant-from-rape#.UDPq9qsgJCU.twitter
http://georgetownlawjournal.org/files/pdf/98-3/Prewitt.PDF
Couple interesting points I did not know previously. Apparently, "in the vast majority of states, a rapist has the same custody and visitation rights to a child born through his crime as other fathers enjoy." If the Republicans wanted to do something humanitarian to partially regain their stature, they could press for laws to challenge this. I don't think I've ever sworn so much reading a law journal article.
Also, he finally did apologize in an ad on Tuesday.
"Rape is an evil act; I used the wrong words in the wrong way. And for that, I apologize. As the father of two daughters, I want tough justice for predators, have a compassionate heart for the victims of sexual assault, and I pray for them. Fact is, rape could lead to pregnancy; the truth is rape has many victims. The mistake I made was in the words I said, not in the heart I hold. I ask for your forgiveness."
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According to the FBI Uniform Crime Report there were 84,767 forcible rapes reported in 2010.
US population was 308,745,538, giving an effective rate of 0.03%.
I have heard that 10% of rapes are actually reported, but no supporting data for this.
No idea about pregnancy or abortions resulting from rape.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10tbl01.xls
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At least he wasn't advocating putting rape victims in chains.
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At least he wasn't advocating putting rape victims in chains.
The proper response to Akin is not to legitimize his position by pointing out that things Biden (of any of the "opposition") have said. The proper response is to condemn both of them for their flawed viewpoints. "At least he's not as bad as the other guy!" implies that regardless of his transgressions, as long as it's slightly less evil and immoral then someone else in some other position that happens to be affiliated with the other party, he deserves my vote. That's a false dichotomy. Akin isn't running against Biden, he's running against McCaskill – who as far as I know hasn't said anything about black people and chains. Compare politicians, not party affiliation. A split ticket does not imply cognitive dissonance.
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I have not made any judgement along party lines.
Ignorance stands on it's own for me.
I have not been hypersensitive about his comments affecting a particular group, either.
I am concerned that someone this stupid is incapable of making intelligent decisions about complex issues due to a severe lack of basic common sense.
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The proper response to Akin is not to legitimize his position by pointing out that things Biden (of any of the "opposition") have said. The proper response is to condemn both of them for their flawed viewpoints. "At least he's not as bad as the other guy!" implies that regardless of his transgressions, as long as it's slightly less evil and immoral then someone else in some other position that happens to be affiliated with the other party, he deserves my vote. That's a false dichotomy. Akin isn't running against Biden, he's running against McCaskill – who as far as I know hasn't said anything about black people and chains.
But she does have a 100% rating from NARAL (http://www.prochoiceamerica.org/elections/2012/voter-guide/mccaskill-claire.html), and an F from the NRA (http://www.nrapvf.org/media-center/2006/mo-claire-mccaskill-rated-f.aspx?y=2006), in addition to being an Obamacare stalwart. So the choice is between someone who said something dumb, and then took it back, versus someone with a clear record of opposing human rights. Akin, mind you, has a record of several years of generally voting on the enlightened, pro-human-rights side of politics. (Yes, generally - he ain't perfect.)
Akin may be a flawed candidate now, but let's not pretend McCaskill is anywhere near as good on the issues as Akin has proven himself to be in the past.
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But she does have a 100% rating from NARAL (http://www.prochoiceamerica.org/elections/2012/voter-guide/mccaskill-claire.html), and an F from the NRA (http://www.nrapvf.org/media-center/2006/mo-claire-mccaskill-rated-f.aspx?y=2006), in addition to being an Obamacare stalwart. So the choice is between someone who said something dumb, and then took it back, versus someone with a clear record of opposing human rights. Akin, mind you, has a record of several years of generally voting on the enlightened, pro-human-rights side of politics. (Yes, generally - he ain't perfect.)
Akin may be a flawed candidate now, but let's not pretend McCaskill is anywhere near as good on the issues as Akin has proven himself to be in the past.
My argument was really against the non-sequitur scout26 proposed; "Because biden sucks more, vote for akin."
Your point may or may not be true. I don't know, I don't follow MO politics since I left the state. At least personally, a 100% NARAL rating is a non-issue to me; and on the latter, the only relevent votes I found were:
Voted NO on allowing firearms in checked baggage on Amtrak trains. (Apr 2009)
Voted YES on prohibiting foreign & UN aid that restricts US gun ownership. (Sep 2007)
Of course it's a moot point, because I left the state; and with it my ability of vote for it's leaders. Vote as you see fit. =) At least personally, I avoid voting for people that hold viewpoints that are demonstrably proven incorrect.
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My argument was really against the non-sequitur scout26 proposed; "Because biden sucks more, vote for akin."
I know, but you were saying to compare Akin to the Democrat in the race. So I did.
I think Scout 26 was just comparing the attention this gaffe has gotten, versus Biden's, so I wouldn't call it a non sequitur.
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Ya know, I'm reading All Quiet on the Western Front right now, and I found this passage in the first chapter about how fingernails and hair keep growing after one dies.
I guess Erich was a real evil moron, to believe something like that.
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Y'all may not be aware of it, not being ancient and stuff, but back in the sixties and seventies part of nurses' training included a little blurb about the effects of shock -- as a result of rape -- and how that tended to impede conception.
Yes, I got to hear that from a nurse.
She was miffed that anyone would be so out of touch regarding medical theory, but allowed as how there are some people who might be altogether opposed to abortion who would grab hold of such an obsolete trinket of "wisdom" and parrot it around the "echo chamber" of like-minded people with whom they almost exclusively associate.
And, if our politician tends to hang out with people of similar orientation, it's possible that a certain amount of echo-chamber contamination would lead to such a pronouncement.
Oddly, politicians who hang out in other echo chambers and who pontificate on even more scientifically questionable theories commonly get a pass.
If it were my ballot, and I had to choose between this gent and his moonbat opponent, I wouldn't even have to give it a second thought. At stake, among other things, is the senate majority. If I can vote in a guy with a flawed understanding of biology and displace a megalomaniac with a totally distorted sense of economics, finance, and the role of government, I'll do it in a heartbeat.
But that's just me. I could be wrong.
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What I meant was don't let "perfect" be the enemy of "good".
Is Akin the perfect candidate. No. The only person that I know of that shares my exact same beliefs, values, and ideals is...me.
Since I'm not running for any office, I have to find the person that most closely fits with what I hold dear. And most times, that person has some ideas or beliefs (or voting record) that aren't exactly like mine.
And occasionally, like me, have said some pretty stupid things. In Public. In front of a large group. :facepalm:
For those that have never been on a campaign, it sucks the life out of you.
A few years back I was a Precinct Committeeman. As such my job was to help educate my neighbors about the candidates, get out the vote, and help with the campaigns. I helped for one "weekend". Wednesday night was three events*. Thursday night was another three. Friday was five. On Saturday there were eight events we went to and we were out until past midnight. Sunday was get up at ungodly O'clock in the morning (4am if IIRC), to go hit the Sunday morning talk shows. The first being at 5am on the local college radio station for all two of their insomniac listeners. And our guy was as bright and cheerful as if he gotten 8 hours of sleep after napping most of the previous day. I was very impressed as I fought to stay awake. (We did one other Radio show, and a TV show that morning, then more events.)
So Akin said something stupid. Given that he's been running awhile, and he's apologized, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. None of us are perfect, and the demands of a campaign, where everything is scrutinized, (we had "an operative" from the other candidate follow our guy around with a video camera,taping every word, so that if and when he said something dumb, they would leap on it and make a TV ad out of it), make it even harder.
The point being what I said earlier, that we on the right don't pick up or wounded from the battlefield. A leftist says something stupid and they go out, circle the wagons around their guys and redouble their efforts to get him/her elected. We, on the other hand, go out and shoot our wounded. Why should he withdrawal? Do we not forgive? Or are we far to ready to pick up rocks and start throwing them at our own glass house?
Is it better to have an Obama acolyte in the Senate where it could be enough to keep "Do Nothing" Harry Reid as Majority Leader and that body in the hands of the D's? Will this country be better having Claire McCaskill as Missouri's Senator? Yes Akin is flawed. We all are. But come on, we can do better with Akin there than her.
Is that what your saying? Even though he's probably at around 75% or greater in shared beliefs, values and ideals, just because he said one dumb thing, I should vote for the other person with whom I share 10% or less of the same beliefs, values, and ideals ?
That's even dumber then what Akin said.
*Event- any meeting or get together by any group that would let our candidate talk and/or give him money. He'd give his canned 3, 5 or 10 minute stump speech, then shake hands, listen to their complaints (my job being to listen, empathize and take notes of what they wanted), and then off to next event.
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If I can vote in a guy with a flawed understanding of biology and displace a megalomaniac with a totally distorted sense of economics, finance, and the role of government, I'll do it in a heartbeat.
This. Especially since Akin tends to be of the sort that oppose government overreach into the medical profession, anyway. Especially since his views on abortion aren't going to change (and shouldn't change) regardless of how many rape victims conceive.
I am concerned that someone this stupid is incapable of making intelligent decisions about complex issues due to a severe lack of basic common sense.
And yet, his record indicates that he tends to choose wisely, at least on most issues.
Does anybody else remember there being a guy on this board that believed that women intentionally miscarry their children, when they don't feel good about the circumstances of the pregnancy? That was a part of his pro-abortion spiel; the idea that if abortion were outlawed, women would have to be prevented from intentional miscarriage. And since any post-pubescent female could be pregnant at any time, all women must be treated as prisoners and subject to the most invasive scrutiny and supervision at all times. The guy may have been a kook, but he also (ostensibly) held one or more degrees in a scientific discipline, and worked in that field. He said that his ideas about miscarriage were all backed up by some very convincing research, in some book he had read. Some smart people have funny ideas.
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Somebody help me on this.
Are feeding him to the wolves for the "legitimate rape" comment wherein he makes the unforgivable sin and implies that sometimes women might lie about rape. Or, the part where he ignorantly parrots a low level urban myth?
Ignorance can be corrected but you can't fix stupid.
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I don't think that his statement upsets me. And I respect that he made a legitimate apology.
What upsets me the most about this is that, after the intense PR damage was done, he chose to stay in the race instead of stepping aside for a candidate without the baggage who would have a better chance of winning. That was a slap in the face to his constituency and his party....and may well guarantee an Obama sycophant gets that seat. I hope the GOP sues to have him removed from the ballot or to prohibit him from campaigning as a Republican....maybe even sue to recover the campaign money they spent on him. And I hope the GOP pushes a write-in candidate as an alternative. I also hope that, if on the outside chance he wins, the GOP Senate relegates him to a "shut up & vote how we tell you or else" position with no leadership position.
Make stupid hurt....
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I don't think that his statement upsets me. And I respect that he made a legitimate apology.
What upsets me the most about this is that, after the intense PR damage was done, he chose to stay in the race instead of stepping aside for a candidate without the baggage who would have a better chance of winning. That was a slap in the face to his constituency and his party....and may well guarantee an Obama sycophant gets that seat. I hope the GOP sues to have him removed from the ballot or to prohibit him from campaigning as a Republican....maybe even sue to recover the campaign money they spent on him. And I hope the GOP pushes a write-in candidate as an alternative. I also hope that, if on the outside chance he wins, the GOP Senate relegates him to a "shut up & vote how we tell you or else" position with no leadership position.
Make stupid hurt....
Really?!?! Seriously ?!?! One misstatement and let's chop off his head? A write-in/alternate candidate has about a 0% chance of winning. (See Peter Fitzgerald- Incumbent Senator who got NO support from the Illinos GOP, Jack Ryan - who had his sealed Divorce Records unsealed, Alan Keyes who took Ryan's place on the ballot and the next thing you know we have Senator Obama become president.)
He's apologized. Let's pick-up our wounded and redouble our efforts to take the senate.
Someone tell my why having Claire McCaskill would be a better choice then Akin?
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According to the FBI Uniform Crime Report there were 84,767 forcible rapes reported in 2010.
US population was 308,745,538, giving an effective rate of 0.03%.
I have heard that 10% of rapes are actually reported, but no supporting data for this.
No idea about pregnancy or abortions resulting from rape.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10tbl01.xls
Cop buddy of mine desperately wanted to get out of sex crimes because of the high rate of bogus cases...that ran to nearly 50% of reported cases. Then there were those sex crimes against minors...and the false accusation rate there. A steady diet of evil adult rapists, evil false accusing adults, evil people raping kids, and evil kids falsely accusing others was sorta getting him down.
As for Rep. Stumbletongue, meh. I am not going to toss a candidate overboard for one faux pas. Wake me up if he claims Guam is going to tip over from too many American troops.
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Want to know the worse prat of that, Roo?
A huge majority of rapes DOES go unreported, in large part because the victims don't want to be lumped in with the false accusers...
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Really?!?! Seriously ?!?! One misstatement and let's chop off his head? A write-in/alternate candidate has about a 0% chance of winning. (See Peter Fitzgerald- Incumbent Senator who got NO support from the Illinos GOP, Jack Ryan - who had his sealed Divorce Records unsealed, Alan Keyes who took Ryan's place on the ballot and the next thing you know we have Senator Obama become president.)
He's apologized. Let's pick-up our wounded and redouble our efforts to take the senate.
Someone tell my why having Claire McCaskill would be a better choice then Akin?
Because he said "legitimate rape!" ZOMG!!!!!!
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Really?!?! Seriously ?!?! One misstatement and let's chop off his head? A write-in/alternate candidate has about a 0% chance of winning. (See Peter Fitzgerald- Incumbent Senator who got NO support from the Illinos GOP, Jack Ryan - who had his sealed Divorce Records unsealed, Alan Keyes who took Ryan's place on the ballot and the next thing you know we have Senator Obama become president.)
He's apologized. Let's pick-up our wounded and redouble our efforts to take the senate.
Someone tell my why having Claire McCaskill would be a better choice then Akin?
You may be right, but I don't think Sarah Steelman is an Alan Keyes. She could pull it off. Brunner? Maybe. I'm pretty sure this was his first go, so he hasn't really proven himself.
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Really?!?! Seriously ?!?! One misstatement and let's chop off his head? A write-in/alternate candidate has about a 0% chance of winning. (See Peter Fitzgerald- Incumbent Senator who got NO support from the Illinos GOP, Jack Ryan - who had his sealed Divorce Records unsealed, Alan Keyes who took Ryan's place on the ballot and the next thing you know we have Senator Obama become president.)
He's apologized. Let's pick-up our wounded and redouble our efforts to take the senate.
Someone tell my why having Claire McCaskill would be a better choice then Akin?
McCaskill is absolutely terrible. However, I'd prefer we convince Akin to drop out because he is also a terrible person.
The reason I say this is not because of his ignorance and not even because he tried to take the easy way out of the question of murdering babies that are the product of rape. I say this because he is an arrogant, prideful person.
He is convinced that he is the only one that can do his job and is absolutely clinging to his position (as Senatorial candidate) when it would have been far better for his "mission" to have stepped aside and allowed someone else to take over.
He was in the driver seat. I'm sure the leaders of the party would have given him anything he asked for, for example, the rights to pick or at least veto their choice for his successor. That way he could have ensured that someone else acceptable was in his place.
Instead, he cut off all his phones, would not check his email, and refused to listen to any voices other than those telling him to stick it out. That is arrogance. That is hubris.
He says that it is God's will for him to be in the race. Given what I've seen, it is quite possible God wants him in this Senate race, but if so, it is because He is determined to punish this country for our own hubris. ("Hope and change!")
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Soooo, has anyone seen any updated polling that shows what voters are thinking overall?
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Soooo, has anyone seen any updated polling that shows what voters are thinking overall?
Rasmussen showed McCaskill up 48 to 38 at the end of this week.
First that shows how bad this gaffe was as HE was up ten last week. It also shows how bad McCaskill is that even after his ignorance she STILL can't get a majority.
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This is a senate seat they really need and they want to give it up without a fight.
No, they want him to step aside in time for them to name a candidate who has a chance of winning. He just ensureed that he doesn't have any chance. The problem is, he's so dumb he doesn't understand that he just committed political Hara Kiri.
Of course, the deadline for him to drop out has passed (I think), and the only way he can resign now is with a court order.