Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Scout26 on August 31, 2012, 06:25:02 PM
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http://us-infantry.com/navy-to-sell-marine-corps-to-army/
The current deal is calling for all Marines to seemlessly transition from Marine to Soldier during fiscal year 2014.
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The comments hurt my brain. And ruin an otherwise funny article.
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Were it to really happen I think it would be an interesting study in organizational mechanics and sociology. The Marines would devour the Army from the inside out and pretty soon we'd have a really big USMC and a bunch of separated Army guys with lots of stored up outrage and a keyboard. =D
I really have no bad interactions with the USMC. I worked for them, they worked for me, the grunts hated everybody which is why you periodically need to let them storm a beach. You learn things, in absence of clear instructions a Marine falls back to his training. The results are sometimes spectacular, sometimes spectacularly messy. Adapt, overcome, improvise. Wish there was more of this in all military.
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Were it to really happen, I have this idea in my head that some Army general would decide that amphibious troops are obsolete and order them disbanded and transferred to other units.
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Best comment I saw (on FB) was from a solider:
"At least now we'll get someone to carry our bags." :rofl: :rofl:
And yes JJ, it's hard to see so many people just accept everything they read as gospel truth, without checking or applying any thinking skills. Makes it easy to spot the 'tards.
You ought to see the number of people that get all bent out of shape when someone posts something from the DuffleBlog on the Veterans groups pages I'm a member of.
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Best comment I saw (on FB) was from a solider:
"At least now we'll get someone to carry our bags." :rofl: :rofl:
And yes JJ, it's hard to see so many people just accept everything they read as gospel truth, without checking or applying any thinking skills. Makes it easy to spot the 'tards.
You ought to see the number of people that get all bent out of shape when someone posts something from the DuffleBlog on the Veterans groups pages I'm a member of.
Omg this
And it's usually dependapotamuses with the maximum outrage
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Dependapotmouses for the win....
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Except then the USMC would lose their aircraft to the USAF. "CAS? Na, we want more stealth aircraft that will minimally if ever be used in combat!"
:laugh:
;)
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Except then the USMC would lose their aircraft to the USAF. "CAS? Na, we want more stealth aircraft that will minimally if ever be used in combat!"
I always argued that if you put a tailhook and folding wings on the A10 chesty puller would get a hard on in the grave.
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I always argued that if you put a tailhook and folding wings on the A10 chesty puller would get a hard on in the grave.
Does a stock A10 have the range for Naval operations?
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I doubt the Army would want to buy them. Once you factor in the retraining (potty training, basic literacy, etc), it's just not cost-effective.
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I always argued that if you put a tailhook and folding wings on the A10 chesty puller would get a hard on in the grave.
I think it was in a novel, but it could work in real life. Get enough DECM to get inside a tin can's point defenses and light it up stem to stern with 30MM from a high angle. I think it would sink in short order. Problem is the A-10 would have to be-built to handle naval life, from robust undercarriage to corrosion protection. I think if we ever such it would be a Doolittle type thing. Deck launch from a CVN or L-class, wreck something gloriously, don't return to ship.
And yes, A-10s belong to the wrong service. I was a young squid when Bosnia was on, and I spent a lot of time topside just watching flight ops. The F-14s were at that time flying FAC and top cover while the F-18s worked. The two USN squadrons would recover with a bomb or two, maybe a HARM on the rails, whatever they didn't find a target for. VMFA-312 was with us and they invariably came back no bombs, no anti-radiation missiles, and among the more aggressive a trail of gun residue from nose to tail. They brought the 2 sidewinders back, probably couldn't figure out how to get them to engage a ground target.
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Except then the USMC would lose their aircraft to the USAF. "CAS? Na, we want more stealth aircraft that will minimally if ever be used in combat!"
Are you going to volunteer to take their aircraft from them?.....
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I still think the Navy would have to pay the Army to take the Marines...
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Have they SEALed the deal yet ???
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I still think the Navy would have to pay the Army to take the Marines...
Even if they offered the National Debt there is no way the Army would take them. When push comes to shove, the Army does not have the will to stand behind their boasts, and the Marines realize that they only have to live up to maybe 25% of theirs. And this from the only Former Marine alive - not Ex-, not Used To Be, but proudly thrown out and told not to even try to come back. =D
As for the comments - I look at them as indicative of just how tenuous the folks in the service see their situation both while serving and once released/retired. Just because they are out to screw you doesn't mean you shouldn't be paranoid.
stay safe.
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Actually, the kind of nonsensical *expletive deleted*it people in the .mil must have lived with since time immemorial, and still do to this day (Death by PowerPoint etc.) must be pretty bad that so many people believe this stuff, or other stuff in those Duffle Blog posts.
Gives people like me who never served some perspective. =D
The enemy and the physical hardships are obviously only part of the challenge. I guess in those Marine recruiting commercials from a few years ago, the CGI dragon was Communisim or somesuch, but the lava monster is now obviously the .mil bureauracracy in hindsight. :rofl:
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I think it was in a novel, but it could work in real life.
It was in a Tom Clancy novel. I'm trying to remember which one; I think it was Sum of All Fears.
They used low-flying A10s flown by a ANG unit to sneak up on a Russian carrier group.
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It was in a Tom Clancy novel. I'm trying to remember which one; I think it was Sum of All Fears.
They used low-flying A10s flown by a ANG unit to sneak up on a Russian carrier group.
Red October. Wasn't a CBG, it was the Kirov group.
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Does a stock A10 have the range for Naval operations?
According to wiki it has a 252 nm combat radius while the harrier II has a 300 nm radius. Harrier is usually the up close and nasty go to CAS for the 'corps.
Several parts of why the Marines are so good at CAS
Pilots often live right in amongst the units they are protecting. They don't get super upgraded barracks or anything fancy in the field.
Pilots are often put into FAC rotation and get an up close and personal of why they need munitions put in tight, hard, and fast.
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According to wiki it has a 252 nm combat radius while the harrier II has a 300 nm radius. Harrier is usually the up close and nasty go to CAS for the 'corps.
Several parts of why the Marines are so good at CAS
Pilots often live right in amongst the units they are protecting. They don't get super upgraded barracks or anything fancy in the field.
Pilots are often put into FAC rotation and get an up close and personal of why they need munitions put in tight, hard, and fast.
And probably most important, all USMC pilots go through TBS, and thus have a substantially greater understanding of ground maneuver and infantry combat than AF or Navy pilots. The reason for that requirement was due to the focus of MC air on CAS, not interdiction.
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OK, assuming the obvious fiction were true:
1. Segregated/specialty units already exist in the Army up to Corps level. XVIII Airborne Corps, anyone? Designating one a Marine Corps would be no big whoop. Folding it under XVIII Airborne Corps would actually make sense.
2. IIRC, LBJ wanted the USMC folded into the Army. Or was it Harry Truman?
3. I like the idea of inter-service rivalry and would oppose such a move.
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When we asked Lcpl. Timothy Johnson what he felt about this he simply said, “man, that is some bullshit right there.”
:laugh:
IIRC, LBJ wanted the USMC folded into the Army. Or was it Harry Truman?
That was Truman. Right up until the beginning of the Korean war and the Marines were pulling the Army's chestnuts out of the fire all over south Korea. He changed his mind after that.
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:laugh:
That was Truman. Right up until the beginning of the Korean war and the Marines were pulling the Army's chestnuts out of the fire all over south Korea. He changed his mind after that.
That pesky history of the Marines saving the army's ass....;)
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There's a sci-fi series where the only difference between a Marine and a Soldier is where they're stationed. Same training, same everything, it's just that when they're planet side they're "Army", and when they're on a space ship they're "Marines".
Something similar here would probably work, assuming you allow the Marines to either basically take over the Army or to carve out a good sized fiefdom so they don't get shuffled off into a corner or disbanded.
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That pesky history of the Marines saving the army's ass....;)
Like at Guadalcanal, Saipan, Okinawa.....
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Like at Guadalcanal, Saipan, Okinawa.....
Ayup.
My maternal grandfather was grievously wounded at Okinawa while serving in the US Army.
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There's a sci-fi series where the only difference between a Marine and a Soldier is where they're stationed. Same training, same everything, it's just that when they're planet side they're "Army", and when they're on a space ship they're "Marines".
Something similar here would probably work, assuming you allow the Marines to either basically take over the Army or to carve out a good sized fiefdom so they don't get shuffled off into a corner or disbanded.
The mission of the Marines is supposed to be to secure the beachead long enough for the Army to bring its train of troops and supplies to begin the sustained battle. They are not supposed to be involved in long-term prosecution of dipliomatic goals by other means - although they have been tasked with doing so since Nov. 11, 1775. "Never have so many done so much with so little" - hah!
The problem with the Marines is that they have grown too large and have been given too many toys. IMHO there ought to be three divisions (Atlantic, Pacific, and Indian Ocean) that fit entirely on three fleets of ships that may or may not be attached to the USN's other fleets. Cruise and stop off at liberty ports until the balloon goes up. (Not only does this plan have strategic sense, it offers a cure for the world's falling economy - the Marine on leave in a foreign port, =D)
stay safe.
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I would think the Navy would rather keep the Marines, just because sheep would be too damn messy on the ships.
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Just a little bit of humor for those of you who enjoy this stuff.
http://terminallance.com/2012/08/09/terminal-lance-217-the-underwater-level/
That link should go to one of my favorite strips. Oddly enough, the Coast Guard is evidently going to waste spend a lot of money on the exact same thing, to keep us safe!