Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Fly320s on September 10, 2012, 11:03:44 AM
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The US budget for 2013 is $4 Trillion (rounded up). The US population is 300 million (rounded down).
That averages out to $13,333 per person for next year, if it was divided equally among the population.
Is that a fair price to you?
Would you willingly pay that for your family?
Would you voluntarily pay more? Or would you only pay less?
For me, I think that is an excellent price. That is like shopping at Wal Mart with a coupon. I would gladly pay $40k per year for me, my wife, and our daughter.
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Of course if you average it out.
But it's not averaged. Many people pay far less. Or nothing. Or are paid to be here by the rest of us.
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I pay about twice that right now just in various Fed taxes, let alone State and other taxes.
I want a refund.
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Yes, I would write a check for that amount x every member of my family right now, provided that we can opt out of SS and Medicare or any other future entitlement programs and their associated taxes.
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I think I'll wait until we solve the 16 trillion dollar national debt.... don't wanna be sendin' good $$$$ after bad $$$$$. [tinfoil] :angel:
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I pay about twice that right now just in various Fed taxes, let alone State and other taxes.
I want a refund.
Must really suck dragging that bag of gold around.
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Of course if you average it out.
But it's not averaged. Many people pay far less. Or nothing. Or are paid to be here by the rest of us.
Yeah, probably about $10K of that amount is being paid out annually to about 50% of the population =(
(not meaning each one gets $10K)
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Must really suck dragging that bag of gold around.
I take it back... I'm not paying $26k in fed taxes annually.
But I am paying well above the $13k mentioned, in income tax. Before getting to FICA/SS/Medicare stuff, excise taxes, and state/city/sales/etc taxes.
People need to pay for the government they consume.
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I take it back... I'm not paying $26k in fed taxes annually.
But I am paying well above the $13k mentioned, in income tax. Before getting to FICA/SS/Medicare stuff, excise taxes, and state/city/sales/etc taxes.
People need to pay for the government they consume.
I'm not really sure what I'm paying since I work off and on rather than steady.
But I do know that we could have lived very nicely on the amount that was withheld each week for taxes earlier this year, if I was getting that every week all year long.
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Of course if you average it out.
But it's not averaged. Many people pay far less. Or nothing. Or are paid to be here by the rest of us.
This. In spades.
Were about at hte point where a majority receive some sort of welfare. Where a growing number pay zero taxes, or receive more from the government then they pay. There is no way to make that sustainable.
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Assuming you are single, you would need to make $68,800 a year to pay $13,333 in fed taxes. If you're married, that jumps to $84,300.
Personally, the people managing my tax money have done so completely irresponsibly. I refuse to pay in one dime more then I have to to avoid imprisonment.
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Assuming you are single, you would need to make $68,800 a year to pay $13,333 in fed taxes. If you're married, that jumps to $84,300.
Personally, the people managing my tax money have done so completely irresponsibly. I refuse to pay in one dime more then I have to to avoid imprisonment.
Doesn't the US budget include SS/Medicare payments ???
So you would have to include the withholding for those also.
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What would we be getting in exchange for that payment?
I paid about $40,000 in income tax, but for that I got:
-Medical care (everything except dental)
-a safety net for unemployment, disability, lost retirement, etc including housing and food assistance
-public services of as good or better a standard than I got at home.
My problem with American tax is that it's money for no tangible benefit.
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I'd like to see it itemized and be able to choose among competing providers of the various services. This would include the choice not to pay for a service I do not want.
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I'd like to see it itemized and be able to choose among competing providers of the various services. This would include the choice not to pay for a service I do not want.
In order to itemize, they would need to figure where it actually is going.....I don't think that they really know.
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13.3K? Yes, I would pay it to put things right. Settle everything, and be as we once were.
But I have no faith in any elected official, anymore. We could pay the 13.3 but what would actually change?
My Grandad lived by an adage, no doubt born of the depression.
"Them that works, eats".
I am acquainted with a Ph.D. who is a quadreplegic and needs 'round the clock care. Yet, he shows up for work every day. Every.Fricking. Day. Without fail.
As a consequence, folks claiming "I was traumatized by xyz and cannot work" hold 0 value to me. Bullshit. If he can do it, anyone can do it.
Don't like your position in life? Change it! If a guy without use of his arms, fingers, legs, and toes can do it, don't cry to me you "cannot".
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Surely there are only a limited number of jobs available for people who can't use any limbs? I'm not sure how hard I'd want to be on an unemployed quadriplegic
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As a consequence, folks claiming "I was traumatized by xyz and cannot work" hold 0 value to me. Bullshit. If he can do it, anyone can do it.
Couple of years ago, paper ran a series of articles on people who had various sob stories about why they were so bad off. This was around Christmas time.
One guy was bitching about he wasn't getting "enough" money from the .gov, that he had to live in a plain, small apartment on Section 8 housing, and that he had no car. He said he "couldn't work", not even a part time job at McDonalds. Why? Because 15 years prior, he was at work and had jammed his finger and therafter was "disabled" and "traumatized".
Another "sob story" was a woman who was complaining she couldn't find work...that is, work that paid what she wanted ($20+ an hour). Numerous places had offered to hire her for around the $12/hr mark...but she felt that "wasn't enough" so she sat on her ass.
My problem with American tax is that it's money for no tangible benefit.
My problem with American tax is that certain groups have gotten to use the government to hold a gun to mine and other's heads and take our rightfully earned money for themselves. *expletive deleted* THEM. Oh, there's tangible benefit from my tax money. Only I don't get it, but the welfare ho down the street sure as *expletive deleted*ck does.
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Ah yes, the welfare queens who get a percent of your taxes are the problem, not the bailout welfare queens who literally have spent your taxes on manhattan penthouses and bentleys.
I cannot comprehend why there's so much visceral hatred for people who get a few hundred bucks of taxpayer relief, and nothing but awe and respect for bankers and corporations who get billions. That will one day be evaluated as one of the 20th century's greatest propaganda feats.
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Surely there are only a limited number of jobs available for people who can't use any limbs? I'm not sure how hard I'd want to be on an unemployed quadriplegic
There is a greeter at my local Home Depot who is a quadriplegic. He can't even speak without assistance. He can tell you where anything in the store happens to be, though. Spina-bifida, I believe is his affliction. Doesn't stop him. Just because he doesn't have use of his limbs, doesn't mean he's not useful/employable. And if anyone were to tease/taunt him? Retribution would be swift and merciless. It won't come to that, though. He's just too appreciated.
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Couple of years ago, paper ran a series of articles on people who had various sob stories about why they were so bad off. This was around Christmas time.
One guy was bitching about he wasn't getting "enough" money from the .gov, that he had to live in a plain, small apartment on Section 8 housing, and that he had no car. He said he "couldn't work", not even a part time job at McDonalds. Why? Because 15 years prior, he was at work and had jammed his finger and therafter was "disabled" and "traumatized".
Another "sob story" was a woman who was complaining she couldn't find work...that is, work that paid what she wanted ($20+ an hour). Numerous places had offered to hire her for around the $12/hr mark...but she felt that "wasn't enough" so she sat on her ass.
My problem with American tax is that certain groups have gotten to use the government to hold a gun to mine and other's heads and take our rightfully earned money for themselves. *expletive deleted* THEM. Oh, there's tangible benefit from my tax money. Only I don't get it, but the welfare ho down the street sure as *expletive deleted* does.
Agreed 100%
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What would we be getting in exchange for that payment?
I paid about $40,000 in income tax, but for that I got:
-Medical care (everything except dental)
-a safety net for unemployment, disability, lost retirement, etc including housing and food assistance
-public services of as good or better a standard than I got at home.
My problem with American tax is that it's money for no tangible benefit.
Except that's not all you paid.
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Except that's not all you paid.
I pay a 10 percent VAT on consumer purchases as well, but I can minimize that by spending less on crap if I want to.
All told, a fairly good deal - I'd pay nearly the same in the US and still have to buy my own health insurance, retirement, and wage protection.
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Ah yes, the welfare queens who get a percent of your taxes are the problem, not the bailout welfare queens who literally have spent your taxes on manhattan penthouses and bentleys.
I cannot comprehend why there's so much visceral hatred for people who get a few hundred bucks of taxpayer relief, and nothing but awe and respect for bankers and corporations who get billions. That will one day be evaluated as one of the 20th century's greatest propaganda feats.
Yeah, I see those bailout welfare queens buying Bentley's with their government-issued Bentley assistance cards, and coming and going from their government-subsidized penthouse apartment buildings all the time. ;/
You know damn well that half the population pays no taxes but receives nearly all of the entitlement money. The corporate bailouts are political payoffs. Put members of congress--and the president--in prison and that will stop.
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Yeah, I see those bailout welfare queens buying Bentley's with their government-issued Bentley assistance cards, and coming and going from their government-subsidized penthouse apartment buildings all the time. ;/
You know damn well that half the population pays no taxes but receives nearly all of the entitlement money. The corporate bailouts are political payoffs. Put members of congress--and the president--in prison and that will stop.
And that's my question: why are we less offended by billion dollar political payoffs than by hundred dollar welfare checks?
The bentleys and penthouses are no less government purchased than the welfare card snacks.
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And that's my question: why are we less offended by billion dollar political payoffs than by hundred dollar welfare checks?
The bentleys and penthouses are no less government purchased than the welfare card snacks.
If APS members were generally overjoyed at the government bailouts of AIG, GM, etc., I must have been off-line that day. Somehow, unless I missed it, hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars going to companies "too big to fail" didn't really touch off celebrations by forum members.
Hundreds of billions . . . that's a lot of money.
On the other hand, unearned entitlements, since LBJ kicked off his Great Society, total many trillions of dollars. And the total keeps going up . . . and up . . . and up. Money completely pissed away, with NO benefit whatsoever to taxpayers - you know, the ones burdened with paying for this crap. Under Obama,the food stamp program alone has nearly doubled. And there's no cap in sight . . .
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The tax rates distort the actual amounts paid and the disparity. I paid over $80k in federal taxes last year. It's likely due to my age I'll never see the "safety net", and likely won't need it due to prudent financial planning, and I'd much rather pay $20k directly to defense, and $30k to an impoverished family as scholarships or other economically viable private assistance and $30k to support my parents than have it be mismanaged by the government. I think most folks would rather directly help others and take care of their own families than have that role be subsumed by the govt. government has taken over the role of personal responsibility. My parents invested in me, it's my job to pay them back, as it was for hundreds of years before social security.
My dad went on SS this year, we had a talk, in his life he contributed roughly $150k (net present value) to SS including employer contributions, and if he lives to be the same age as all of my grandparents, will extract roughly $300k (net present value). By the time I am his age, I will have contributed nearly $600k, and am likely to never see any of that. So economically, it woud be better for me to simply pay him and my mom directly.
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Nice. I finally make more than you paid in taxes.
Of course half my raise isn't showing up in my bank account due to taxes :(
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Ah yes, the welfare queens who get a percent of your taxes are the problem, not the bailout welfare queens who literally have spent your taxes on manhattan penthouses and bentleys.
I cannot comprehend why there's so much visceral hatred for people who get a few hundred bucks of taxpayer relief, and nothing but awe and respect for bankers and corporations who get billions. That will one day be evaluated as one of the 20th century's greatest propaganda feats.
Hatred of either is not mutually exclusive, as you seem to be indicating.
Anyone who can, sight unseen and by a system that to me seems all too arbitrary, take money from my pocket, is not someone I am looking to be friendly with. Particularly when I have seen folks who are as profoundly handicapped as the folks I have mentioned putting in a day's work/being productive.
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Hatred of either is not mutually exclusive, as you seem to be indicating.
It is if you're a liberal.