Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: AZRedhawk44 on October 31, 2012, 03:01:33 PM
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... refusing to volunteer to clean the officer's patrol car on "career day" at the elementary school.
http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/10/30/51809.htm
No violence from the boy, just said "I don't want to clean your car."
Redacted by Mods.
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Oh. My. Word
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No defending this moron.
As I've said many times, there are bad people in every job...and a couple of decent ones who still became lawyers. =D
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Criminal charges. Assault on a minor and any other charge you can think up. Fire the idiot cop and lock him up
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Criminal charges. Assault on a minor and any other charge you can think up. Fire the idiot cop and lock him up
Agreed.
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I'd say he's almost ready for Chicago PD.
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I do not dare to publically say what I think should happen to this Pig >:D
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Assuming things happended as described . . .
The officer is just one bad apple in a department full of good, dedicated police officers.
The fact that no mention has been made of the department's "good" officers and supervisors taking action to arrest the perp and file criminal charges should not be taken to mean they tolerate the bad cops among them, oh no . . . it should be interpreted as . . . uh . . . let's see . . .
I'll have to get back to you on that.
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I'm with Tallpine: I can't post here what I'm thinking.
The local PD should have been racing to grab the bad apple before the child's father caught hold of him...
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Taser my kid like that....and Officer Friendly will know what it is like to be tasered in the colon....
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He did WHAT?
And then instead of calling EMS he pulled the barbs out himself?
It also appears, mainly because it was not noted otherwise, that he remains unincarcerated.
Along with the rest of you, I find various FCC rules forbidding me from esxpressing in interstate commerce my thoughts regarding a final outcome of this matter.
stay safe.
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Well, with any luck, the child will have his college education paid for.
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I can't say what I really want to say.
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I did a bing search for "taser 10 year old boy" and was surprised this wasn't the only story linked.
Where is the original news story and why can't I find that?
Do the police departments track use and replacement of those taser cartridges?
What the hell did the principle do when the kid was brought in after being tapered? What were they told?
I tried searching a local newspaper site and also got nothing. You would think this would be news.
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I did a bing search for "taser 10 year old boy" and was surprised this wasn't the only story linked.
Where is the original news story and why can't I find that?
Do the police departments track use and replacement of those taser cartridges?
What the hell did the principle do when the kid was brought in after being tapered? What were they told?
I tried searching a local newspaper site and also got nothing. You would think this would be news.
It is news over here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2225633/Boy-10-tasered-police-officer-refusing-clean-patrol-car.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
I agree with Strings also, you would think that - assuming this is true - his employers would have hung this bloke out to dry as soon as humanly possible, if for no other reason that it would protect their own arses later on.
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Considering it was supposed to have happened in May why is it just now making news?
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Redacted by Mods.
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*slightly perturbed look*
So, guys, when was the last time we a good ole fashioned burning-at-the-stake?
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Two attacks against another member already. Shutting this one down since folks can't be civil.
Chris
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Re-opening this because some interesting info has come out about the case. If the the member bashing continues, I'll close it permanently and give the offenders a time-out.
Chris
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Did a quick google search for updated info, couldn't find anything, care to share Chris? :)
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I will state for the record I am firmly against tasering 10YO kids who refuse to clean my car. Also, pets, except for small yappy dogs.
[I jest because, well, not sure I want to write down my honest reaction.]
Article from yesterday with more detail, though maybe not mtnbkr's new info:
http://www.abqjournal.com/main/2012/10/31/news/officer-tases-boy-at-school.html
Even in the best light, taking Officer Amperage's word, he is a nitwit to have pulled a ranged weapon and then to have swept the kiddos.
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Did a quick google search for updated info, couldn't find anything, care to share Chris? :)
It was relayed to me by word of mouth, but what I was told jives with what Roo_ster posted.
Chris
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He's too *expletive deleted*ing stupid to be allowed to be a cop...
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So this new info is "well it went off by accident?"
Who thought the guy would actually own up to being a sphincter?
1* strikes again. ;/
*expletive deleted*ing cops and their *expletive deleted*ing three day unpaid suspensions for things that should land the rest of us in prison for years. :mad:
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I try to avoid cop bashing, because I figure police populations are pretty similar to general populations wherever they are - around 80% decent people and 20% jackasses. Where I have a problem is with responses to incidents like this one - and not just by the police dept involved, but the DA's office and all others in that local government.
A police officer doing something negligent or stupid should be no different than any other citizen doing something negligent or stupid. For a case like this, what would the police and District Attorney response be if, say a guy was showing the neighborhood kids his new taser, being negligent and acting like it was a toy, and then accidentally shooting his neighbor's son and instead of calling EMS, just pulling the probes out himself and trying to minimize the incident? Would they look at giving him the equivalent of a three day suspension, or would they prosecute him for a misdemeanor or felony crime ? If the latter, the officer in this case should face the same potential criminal consequences (I'm sure the civil consequences cannot be avoided here).
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^^^^^^^^^
What Ben said.
A cop should face at least the same consequences for his misconduct that a private citizen would face for the same misconduct; I'm quite certain that if I were to taze a neighboring 10 year old for not cleaning my car, I'd be facing more - a LOT more - than a 3 day suspension from work.
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^^^^^^^^^
What Ben said.
A cop should face at least the same consequences for his misconduct that a private citizen would face for the same misconduct; I'm quite certain that if I were to taze a neighboring 10 year old for not cleaning my car, I'd be facing more - a LOT more - than a 3 day suspension from work.
As probably the only member who has presented cases against police officers to a grand jury, I can say that it does happen. A lot more than anyone knows, because of the secrecy of grand jury proceedings. Or, at least it did in my office. And like Ben said, 80% good, 20% bad (unless the group is lawyers...)
All this said, I'd also look at the civil complaint's allegations as being exaggerated. Civil complaints always exaggerate the facts to justify the high damages amount. My wife does civil law, and it often amazes me how often plaintiff lawyers just outright lie in a complaint to justify jacking up demands for damages, especially punitive damages.
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Taser my kid like that....and Officer Friendly will know what it is like to be tasered in the colon....
Why colon, when there's a pair of (miniature) testicles to zap?
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So, was that cop the only one on that schoolground professional enough to handle a taser ???
:P
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and it came out of the holster, why?
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I take the police officer at his word as I find it extremely hard to believe he planned on tasering the child.
That means he has admitted to horsing around with a weapon with children.
That is gross negligence by itself and were that all that happened, should have merited at least EXTENSIVE (unpaid) retraining, if not dismissal.
Actually firing the taser??? (I'm sure it "just went off" for the same reason guns "just go off") Immediate dismissal.
Let's compare: what would happen to a GI if he were horsing around with some Iraqi children and had a less-than-lethal weapon "just go off" while pointing it at one of said children?
Leaving the military, how about a security gaurd, if he were horsing around and a child was shot by his taser, what would be the outcome?
Why are the police held to such a low standard?
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and it came out of the holster, why?
I've seen some cops demonstrate a taser to kids. Without fail, each one popped the cartridge off before doing anything...except that one Vegas cop that let the kid pop fat Jesus in the face. =D
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Why are the police held to such a low standard?
1* ! 1* ! 1* ! 1* ! 1* ! 1* ! 1* ! 1* ! 1* ! 1* ! 1* ! 1* !
9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11!
Why do you hate 'Muhrica?
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1* ! 1* ! 1* ! 1* ! 1* ! 1* ! 1* ! 1* ! 1* ! 1* ! 1* ! 1* !
9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11!
Why do you hate 'Muhrica?
You forgot 'officer safety'.
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So, was that cop the only one on that schoolground professional enough to handle a taser ???
:P
Of course - after all, he didn't accidentally shoot himself in the foot now, did he?
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It was relayed to me by word of mouth, but what I was told jives with what Roo_ster posted.
Chris
Sorry mtnbkr. I had a couple meetings and didn't come back to the thread until now.
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The article roo_ster posted is what I heard. Walton & Johnson mentioned in their morning taser report today. They said the officer took off the cartridge earlier in a class demonstration and for some reason thought he had left it off. Then (like a gun he knew was unloaded) he got in trouble when he pulled the trigger on the boy later.
The article at least states that he did take the boy to the nurse's office and stayed for the parents. The complaint implies he dumped the kid at the principle's office and took off.
Anyway, it sounds like he screwed up with a negligent discharge of the taser on a child, but that is about as far as it goes. Is a 3 day suspension enough? I don't know. Unless they can show the kid has some real medical issues, I am not sure I see a big money award justified here.
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Anyway, it sounds like he screwed up with a negligent discharge of the taser on a child, but that is about as far as it goes. Is a 3 day suspension enough? I don't know. Unless they can show the kid has some real medical issues, I am not sure I see a big money award justified here.
Let's compare: what would happen to a GI if he were horsing around with some Iraqi children and had a less-than-lethal weapon "just go off" while pointing it at one of said children?
Leaving the military, how about a security gaurd, if he were horsing around and a child was shot by his taser, what would be the outcome?
Is a 3-day suspension enough? Would a soldier be placed on 3 day restricted duty? Would a security guard get three days off works without pay?
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A police officer doing something negligent or stupid should be no different than any other citizen doing something negligent or stupid. For a case like this, what would the police and District Attorney response be if, say a guy was showing the neighborhood kids his new taser, being negligent and acting like it was a toy, and then accidentally shooting his neighbor's son and instead of calling EMS, just pulling the probes out himself and trying to minimize the incident? Would they look at giving him the equivalent of a three day suspension, or would they prosecute him for a misdemeanor or felony crime ? If the latter, the officer in this case should face the same potential criminal consequences (I'm sure the civil consequences cannot be avoided here).
If I were present while a cop pulled out a taser and hit my son with it, cop or not, I would have shot him.
Tasers are 'less lethal' devices, not 'non-lethal'- I view it no differently than if the cop grabbed a nightstick or Asp and started beating my kid.
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Is a 3-day suspension enough? Would a soldier be placed on 3 day restricted duty? Would a security guard get three days off works without pay?
With a taser I assume? Is it? You tell me. Would a security guard be demonstrating how a taser works at a school? I doubt it.
3 days sounds pretty light to me also. Long term, it appears no one is hurt, but causing the kid to pass out is pretty bad. I guess we'll find out what the jury thinks about it before too long.
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>I take the police officer at his word as I find it extremely hard to believe he planned on tasering the child.
That means he has admitted to horsing around with a weapon with children<
I would actually prefer he meant to do it, to he just "made a mistake".
One would show that he is vindictive: that can be dealt with.
The other shows that he's an idiot. And we have been FAR to forgiving of idiots with badges
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With a taser I assume? Is it? You tell me. Would a security guard be demonstrating how a taser works at a school? I doubt it.
If you will note the article, the Officer does not claim to have been "demonstrating how a taser works". You just assumed that. Read the article, it says "The officer contends his stun gun went off by accident while he was showing it to a group of students, according to Department of Public Safety documents."
That's not a school demonstration. In fact, it is completely consistent with the claim of the victim that he pulled it out while horsing around with the boys. (And sounds suspiciously like an attempt to put the best face on his actions while still being technically true.)
So, if a security guard were horsing around with his taser and accidentally shot someone, what would happen to him? (I note you didn't answer that question.)
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It depends on how good the guards union is. =D. I've never seen security guards treated too well so I don't think it is an apples to apples comparison.
The radio report I heard this morning is where I got the info that he was demonstrating the taser prior to this. I don't know where they got it from. It was still a foolish thing to do.
From what I have seen on these "bad cop" articles over the years, cops rarely get fired unless they are doing something illegal. That may not apply to all departments, but he wasn't fired. With that in mind, I don't know if 3 days is nothing or a lot. In my company, 3 days off and a letter in your file is about as bad as it gets short of firing.
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It depends on how good the guards union is. =D. I've never seen security guards treated too well so I don't think it is an apples to apples comparison.
The radio report I heard this morning is where I got the info that he was demonstrating the taser prior to this. I don't know where they got it from. It was still a foolish thing to do.
From what I have seen on these "bad cop" articles over the years, cops rarely get fired unless they are doing something illegal. That may not apply to all departments, but he wasn't fired. With that in mind, I don't know if 3 days is nothing or a lot. In my company, 3 days off and a letter in your file is about as bad as it gets short of firing.
The fact that "bad cops" (or in this case, negligent cops) don't ever get fired without a conviction is exactly the problem.
Any other organization with such gross negligence, ESPECIALLY with a 10 year old child getting injured, would be fired summarily (or as summarily as possible.) A police officer gets three days off.
This clear double standard (coupled with the fact that the police would likely be looking to charge any other person for such negligence) is what raises the hackles of even people like me who really want to support the police. I know most police are good. It REALLY bothers me that the police officers who are obviously not so are generally protected by the blue wall.
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. . . I know most police are good. It REALLY bothers me that the police officers who are obviously not so are generally protected by the blue wall.
Can you really call the cops who protect the bad ones good?
The fact that this cop hasn't been fired, charged, or placed on longer suspension says the department itself is rotten.
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Can you really call the cops who protect the bad ones good?
The fact that this cop hasn't been fired, charged, or placed on longer suspension says the department itself is rotten.
This. A million times over. And that's the #1 reason my default position with LE total distrust.
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The fact that "bad cops" (or in this case, negligent cops) don't ever get fired without a conviction is exactly the problem.
Any other organization with such gross negligence, ESPECIALLY with a 10 year old child getting injured, would be fired summarily (or as summarily as possible.) A police officer gets three days off.
This clear double standard (coupled with the fact that the police would likely be looking to charge any other person for such negligence) is what raises the hackles of even people like me who really want to support the police. I know most police are good. It REALLY bothers me that the police officers who are obviously not so are generally protected by the blue wall.
Not always. I have seen companies tolerate quite a bit of incompetence and/or negligence without firing anyone. Of course, no one gets hurt in most of those cases. It is in the nature of big organizations to worry about CYA more than justice.
I don't know why that department decided he shouldn't be fired. I can only assume that unlike you, they were more objective and weren't approaching it from the perspective of an angry parent. I am a bit surprised they didn't punish him more, but they may have done so just not publicized it, or maybe it wasn't reported. They only thing we know they didn't do was fire him.
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From what I have seen on these "bad cop" articles over the years, cops rarely get fired unless they are doing something illegal. That may not apply to all departments, but he wasn't fired. With that in mind, I don't know if 3 days is nothing or a lot. In my company, 3 days off and a letter in your file is about as bad as it gets short of firing.
Like maliciously (or "negligently" ;/) assaulting a kid with 50,000 volts of electricity?
If it's out of the holster and pointed at a kid for anything other than true law enforcement purposes... it ain't "negligent." No matter what. The intent was snarky intimidation compliance "I am above the law" authoritah bullscat.
If I were present while a cop pulled out a taser and hit my son with it, cop or not, I would have shot him.
Tasers are 'less lethal' devices, not 'non-lethal'- I view it no differently than if the cop grabbed a nightstick or Asp and started beating my kid.
Unless my non-existent son were on some sort of Ritalin-rage or other situation calling for his tasing, I'm right there with you.
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Can you really call the cops who protect the bad ones good?
The fact that this cop hasn't been fired, charged, or placed on longer suspension says the department itself is rotten.
This. A million times over. And that's the #1 reason my default position with LE total distrust.
Yep. Cops treat non-cops far far worse than I ever treated the Iraqis I worked with in country. Masters with electric whips instead of servants.
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Ben and Chris, a serious question.
If it's really 80% - 20% good - bad as you say, why do the majority "good" officers get all thin blue line and protect the bad ones? Can they still be called "good" officers when they turn a blind eye to the abuses and law breaking of the 20%?
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http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20121101/NEWS01/121109963#Edmonds-police-officer-charged-with-sex-crime
And in the theme of this thread, an interesting story about a local police officer who essentially raped a woman that he had detained. I am not sure why this is not being charged as rape. From the inferences in the article, it sounds like the woman is a streetwalker, but I have certainly heard of cases in which people are charged with raping a streetwalker. The officer served in the Navy for 20 years as a police officer, and is now being investigated for allegations of some sort of molestation of a relative while he was in the service.
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Ben and Chris, a serious question.
If it's really 80% - 20% good - bad as you say, why do the majority "good" officers get all thin blue line and protect the bad ones? Can they still be called "good" officers when they turn a blind eye to the abuses and law breaking of the 20%?
Do they all? Or is it the police dept itself (as in administrators) and the local government that have gone into lawsuit protection mode? I'm sure there are plenty of depts where the individual officers cover stuff up - we read about it happening in places like NYC all the time.
Does it happen in that same frequency in Smalltown as well? I don't know. My theory is simple and subjective in that the characteristics of a sample group will somewhat follow the characteristics of that population as a whole. Tobler's Law of Geography and all - things that are closer together are more similar than things that are farther apart. Maybe you have more bad apple NYC cops because NYC has more crime and bad apples.
My own subjective claim is that America seems to be composed of around 80% generally decent people and 20% jackasses. If i had to make a claim based on my own very limited interactions with local police, it would be 100% decent people because I've never had a run in with a bad cop. I know they exist though, just like bad people exist in the general population.
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Like maliciously (or "negligently" ;/) assaulting a kid with 50,000 volts of electricity?
If it's out of the holster and pointed at a kid for anything other than true law enforcement purposes... it ain't "negligent." No matter what. The intent was snarky intimidation compliance "I am above the law" authoritah bullscat.
Unless my non-existent son were on some sort of Ritalin-rage or other situation calling for his tasing, I'm right there with you.
That is the problem. You are assuming milcious intent on the part of the officer and allowing for no other option. That colors every opinion on this. When the good cops see people like you ready to hang them for small mistakes, it is no wonder they tend to be protective of their fellow officers and fall into CYA mode. As far as they are concerned, they won't get a fair hearing from you.
I agree this guy should catch hell for tasering a kid for no legitamite reason, but some of you seem to be acting like the kid is dead and in the grave and you want to string the officer up and hang him. I guess that makes me want to take the officer's side.
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http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20121101/NEWS01/121109963#Edmonds-police-officer-charged-with-sex-crime
And in the theme of this thread, an interesting story about a local police officer who essentially raped a woman that he had detained. I am not sure why this is not being charged as rape. From the inferences in the article, it sounds like the woman is a streetwalker, but I have certainly heard of cases in which people are charged with raping a streetwalker. The officer served in the Navy for 20 years as a police officer, and is now being investigated for allegations of some sort of molestation of a relative while he was in the service.
There was a cop down this way that just got convicted for something similar. Cop claimed it was consenual. I guess the jury didn't buy it.
Another recent incident had 4 cops being prosecuted for supposedly beating on a 12 or 13 year old. The kid was a burglar who had many, many, many priors. They caught him red handed, had to chase him down. The kid was struggling the whole time and they had to wreste him down to get him hand cuffed. 4 cops brought up on charges based on what I thought was a biased view of the video. The kid was arrested for burglary a week later. The first cop was acquitted. I don't think the rest have gone to trial yet.
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>When the good cops see people like you ready to hang them for small mistakes<
I would contend that this is NOT a "small mistake". It is, at best, a demonstration of such a severe lack of intelligence on the part of the officer as to be criminal.
Describing this as a "small mistake", when a similar mistake by you or I would result in criminal charges and loss of rights, does nothing but increase the divide between "Us" and "Them".
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That is the problem. You are assuming milcious intent on the part of the officer and allowing for no other option. That colors every opinion on this. When the good cops see people like you ready to hang them for small mistakes, it is no wonder they tend to be protective of their fellow officers and fall into CYA mode. As far as they are concerned, they won't get a fair hearing from you.
I agree this guy should catch hell for tasering a kid for no legitamite reason, but some of you seem to be acting like the kid is dead and in the grave and you want to string the officer up and hang him. I guess that makes me want to take the officer's side.
May I point my gun at you, and enjoy no repercussions?
(No I don't want to shoot you obviously. But pointing a weapon at another person without a legitimate threat-defined reason is unacceptable)
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(No I don't want to shoot you obviously. But pointing a weapon at another person without a legitimate threat-defined reason is unacceptable)
This. Want to show kids about the taser? Pull up youtube and show them somebody getting tased or arrange for one of your fellow officers to undergo a demonstration (this is best handled by voluntelling them). Don't pull it out and joke with it or point it at anyone. It's a duh-huh kind of thing.
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The 80/20 debate is laughable in my opinion. I think it is the 98% of cops that give the 2% a bad name. These are not representative cross-sections of the population any more than other occupations that have a self-selection process and a vetting process in the culture to ensure the compliance of the new members to the "thin black and blue line".
Not only are thugs attracted to the job code but the police unions and unlimited immunity perpetuate and incentivize bad behavior, in this case, barbaric behavior.
The majority of all police will do what they are told. No thug on earth in ancient or recent history could maintain an oppressive government of any stripe (name your political bogeyman) without a willing constabulary to do the dirty work.
As America continues to descend into an economic calamity and increasingly oppressive federal and state laws, the cops will be the loyal praetorians to fine, kidnap, cage, maim and kill the "lawbreakers".
Incredibly, Congress has been creating on average 55 new “crimes” per year, bringing the total number of federal crimes on the books to more than 5,000, with as many as 300,000 regulatory crimes. As journalist Radley Balko reports, “that doesn't include federal regulations, which are increasingly being enforced with criminal, not administrative, penalties. It also doesn't include the increasing leeway with which prosecutors can enforce broadly written federal conspiracy, racketeering, and money laundering laws. And this is before we even get to the states’ criminal codes.”
In such a society, we are all petty criminals, guilty of violating some minor law. In fact, Boston lawyer Harvey Silvergate, author of Three Felonies a Day: How the Feds Target the Innocent, estimates that the average American now unknowingly commits three felonies a day, thanks to an overabundance of vague laws that render otherwise innocent activity illegal and an inclination on the part of prosecutors to reject the idea that there can’t be a crime without criminal intent. Consequently, we now find ourselves operating in a strange new world where small farmers who dare to make unpasteurized goat cheese and share it with members of their community are finding their farms raided, while home gardeners face jail time for daring to cultivate their own varieties of orchids without having completed sufficient paperwork.
See: https://www.rutherford.org/publications_resources/john_whiteheads_commentary/the_overcriminalization_of_america_are_we_all_criminals_now (https://www.rutherford.org/publications_resources/john_whiteheads_commentary/the_overcriminalization_of_america_are_we_all_criminals_now)
I would eventually like to see all police activity privatized and the criminal code abolished but until then the immediate remedies are abolition of all police government union activity and membership and the immediate gutting of all unlimited immunity for sworn officers and force them to be bonded and insured through a private broker they pay for instead of the taxpayers they savage daily.
David Friedman's interesting take on the criminal code: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqpdIcGEQsY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqpdIcGEQsY)
Per the uniform tasering the child: fire him and send him to the parents house for a determination of weregild.
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That is the problem. You are assuming milcious intent on the part of the officer and allowing for no other option. That colors every opinion on this. When the good cops see people like you ready to hang them for small mistakes, it is no wonder they tend to be protective of their fellow officers and fall into CYA mode. As far as they are concerned, they won't get a fair hearing from you.
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IF, in the beginning, bad cops were not protected by the rest, and good cops were taking the line that weeding out the bad ones sa soon as possible was good for everybody, then I doubt we would be seeing the battle lines we in fact have today.
I do not care a fig about unions, union contracts, and making sure that a dues-paying member never loses out in order to convince the others to keep paying dues. That's not the point.
Society has ceded, and cops have accepted, the role of law-enforcer. But the laws are not being enforced equally* Folks are not happy about that.
stay safe.
* I said "equally", not "equitably" - because if equity were brought into play the penalties given law-enforcers for breaking the law would be arsher than for the rest of us.
I know there are times that the cops need/want to arrive quickly without announcing their arrival to the whole neighborhood and thus travel above the speed limit without using lights and/or siren. But when I see s cop blow past me at 70+ in a 40MPH zone, only to catch up to him two minutes later at the 7-11 where he is buying a Lotto ticket, how am I supposed to feel?
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The 80/20 debate is laughable in my opinion.
The 80/20 is of course not a debate at all. It is one man's personal observation that in his 52 years on the planet around 80% of the people he's come across have been pretty decent. Maybe I'm hanging out with the wrong crowd.
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Ben,
To paraphrase our esteemed president, let me be clear, 80/20 rule as applies to the assumption that the greater number of cops are better behaved than the smaller is laughable. if good cops were truly such, they would work daily to root out the bad seed instead of allowing it to flourish. Their inaction to bring bad cops to heal makes them accountable in that wretched behavior.
I do believe the 80/20 rule holds true for lots of instances of human activity but not this particular one.
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May I point my gun at you, and enjoy no repercussions?
(No I don't want to shoot you obviously. But pointing a weapon at another person without a legitimate threat-defined reason is unacceptable)
Okay, equating tasers and guns explains your viewpoint quite a bit.
I guess I feel lucky that I haven't had all these bad experiences with police officers and don't hate them.
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See, *I* don't hate cops. I hate the institutionalized attitude of "Us v Them" that seems to pervade the profession.
Compare cops to gun owners: when was the last time you saw a story of a gun owner acting in a certifiably idiotic fashion (and pointing a taser at a kid is just that, assuming lack of malice) without the entire community condemning them?
>Okay, equating tasers and guns explains your viewpoint quite a bit. <
OK... so you think that pointing a taser at someone without just cause wouldn't result in criminal charges for the likes of you and I? Want me to check that with the local DA's office for you?
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Compare cops to gun owners: when was the last time you saw a story of a gun owner acting in a certifiably idiotic fashion (and pointing a taser at a kid is just that, assuming lack of malice) without the entire community condemning them?
I see it all the time on gun forums. It doesn't seem to make it into the MSM so much, leaving the general non-gun culture to think we're all a bunch of barbarian gun and bible huggers.
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Okay, equating tasers and guns explains your viewpoint quite a bit.
OrLy?
Lets go back to the idea that the tasers were more or less supposed to be a replacement or supplement to the baton/nightstick on the force continuum- less than lethal, but not by any stretch 'non-lethal.'
Cop pulls out bataon/nightstick and whacks kid over the head rendering him unconscious- still feel the same about your guilt/negligence/accident angle and still feel that its 'hanging him for small mistakes' if the cop is successfully prosecuted to the full extent of the law?
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Okay, equating tasers and guns explains your viewpoint quite a bit.
I guess I feel lucky that I haven't had all these bad experiences with police officers and don't hate them.
;/ Opposing police not being held accountable for their actions equals hating them in the same way opposing gay marriage means you hate gays or opposing abortion means you hate women. Weak rhetoric.
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I'll just say this... I worked with cops for 12 years. I prosecuted some along the way. Some I call friend. Most of these friends would fit on this board with no problem, except for their job. One has a ranch set-up with his prep materials and everything in a way I bet would cause jealousy among most of you as it did me. The ones I call friend are Life Members of the NRA, are strong supporters of individual rights, and would join us in condemning the idiot at issue in this thread. They are good people. They don't have the us v. them attitude.
Look, this one shouldn't be a cop, or put in any position where he has to have good judgment, as he just showed his complete lack of that is this situation. Can't say if criminal charges are warranted, as I don't know enough to make that call.
As for the actions of good cops covering for bad, I have never had that experience. I'm sure it happens, but also damn sure it doesn't always happen.
I'm done. Going to be with my family while they watch the Sandy fundraiser on TV.
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but also damn sure it doesn't always happen
you don't get enough of your reality from youtube obviously >:D
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I'm just trying to figure out how I could "accidently" shoot a ten year old on a school ground with a taser and not be sitting in jail right now ???
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I'm just trying to figure out how I could "accidently" shoot a ten year old on a school ground with a taser and not be sitting in jail right now ???
really? you can kill a kid and not be sitting in jail
http://waycrossga.blogspot.com/2011/04/accused-child-killer-in-waycross-ga-out.html
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really? you can kill a kid and not be sitting in jail
http://waycrossga.blogspot.com/2011/04/accused-child-killer-in-waycross-ga-out.html
tasers don't always kill :facepalm:
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As for the actions of good cops covering for bad, I have never had that experience. I'm sure it happens, but also damn sure it doesn't always happen.
Every cop that knows of another cop that has over-stepped the bounds has an obligation to report that activity. That's how things work in the "perfect world".
When cops who know of other cops who have committed felonies do not report them you get an "imperfect world".
Think of it in the same way the service academies treat their honor code and those that know of a violation by another cadet. The expulsion of the cadet who violated the honor code is in many ways a shame. The expulsion of the cadet who knew of the violation but did not report it is much less of a loss. Even when folks try their hardest they can find themselves breaking the law. Sometimes it was not out of malice or for personal gain but due to any of a number of other reasons. Folks who intentionally lie should not be allowed to remain in positions of trust.
And yes, the standard for cops should be higher than for "ordinary" folks.
stay safe.
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tasers don't always kill :facepalm:
I'd like to hear what their reasoning is for the punishment also. They haven't made a statement that I have seen. Tasering a kid by "accident" is hard to forgive. If they really believe it was an accident and the kid was thought to be okay, I can see the lack of charges maybe.
Q: are people generally charged with assault/battery for doing something accidental? Or is it left to the civil side?
I was trying to decide if a car accident involving a 10 year old was analogous, but I am not sure. If there were no significant injuries, I wouldn't think there would be an arrest unless gross negligence or something worse was involved. I guess that is the argument is. =). Maybe someone can define how that is applied legally.
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Every cop that knows of another cop that has over-stepped the bounds has an obligation to report that activity. That's how things work in the "perfect world".
When cops who know of other cops who have committed felonies do not report them you get an "imperfect world".
Think of it in the same way the service academies treat their honor code and those that know of a violation by another cadet. The expulsion of the cadet who violated the honor code is in many ways a shame. The expulsion of the cadet who knew of the violation but did not report it is much less of a loss. Even when folks try their hardest they can find themselves breaking the law. Sometimes it was not out of malice or for personal gain but due to any of a number of other reasons. Folks who intentionally lie should not be allowed to remain in positions of trust.
And yes, the standard for cops should be higher than for "ordinary" folks.
stay safe.
i think if people applied those expectations to politicians, applying it to cops would not be much of an issue. =D
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but also damn sure it doesn't always happen
you don't get enough of your reality from youtube obviously >:D
Yeah, I need to start watching Youtube for more than gun stuff and funny clips, huh? ;)
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Hey Skid, I'm USMA Class of 91. Not all of those booted for Honor violations were a shame, and at least a few of those tossed for toleration were.
It's kind of funny... people come on a thread about an idiot who shoud be punished for at least negligence if not recklessness or even criminal behavior, and suddenly anyone who wears a badge is just a state-sponsored criminal. So I guess as a prosecutor, I was probably worse than a cop, because I filed charges, got indictments (everyone knows a good prosecutor could get an indictment on anyone since the prosecutor decides what evidence gets presented), and used the tricks in the law and the system to rack up convictions for my political future. ;
I guess I'm not quite jaded enough...yet. I know there are bad cops, and bad lawyers, and bad judges, etc... But I also know it's not all of them
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Well, the first step is to admit the problem =D
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Well, the first step is to admit the problem =D
and often the next is to get the right meds for it
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...
Q: are people generally charged with assault/battery for doing something accidental? Or is it left to the civil side?
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If the actions that led to the "accident" were criminal (assault), then Yes (or they should be).
How about I just go on schoolyard and start pointing a taser at kids for fun ? =|
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If the actions that led to the "accident" were criminal (assault), then Yes (or they should be).
How about I just go on schoolyard and start pointing a taser at kids for fun ? =|
let's see, this accident involved unholstering, removing the safety, pointing at a student, applying finger, and squeezing the trigger. on the positive side, his aim seems excellent, as he hit the one and only smart alec squarely in the chest. even as an "accident" (as in, "i thought i removed the cartridge".) the negligence piles up.
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Chris: As a prosecuter, you're paid to win cases, not seek out justice. If you came upon evidence that would hurt your prosecution or help clear the defendant, would/did you turn that evidence over to the defense?....or just keep your mouth shut?
Considering how many cases in Texas have been overturned for that reason recently, you can see the flaw in the system....
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I'm down with the cop being an idiot, and it's a certainty that he won't be fired -- which IMHO is the only appropriate response to such blatant stupidity.
But there's something else bothering me. The article says the suit was brought by a guardian ad litem for the kid. I thought courts appointed guardians ad litem to protect the hypothetical rights of unborn children. (And I am not arguing about whether or not an actual fetus is or is not a "person" in the eyes of the law, I am thinking specifically about an estate that has been dragging through a probate court for 60+ years, in which a guardian ad litem was appointed to represent the potential interests of an entire unborn and unconceived generation of heirs.) Chris, how does a 10-year old kid get to have a guardian ad litem?
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On my phone...I'll ansewr when I get home later on my PC...
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At a meeting...boring. Tried to research this case, with no luck. Don't know why this boy has a GAL. In Ohio, a court can appoint a GAL in any case where there is a concern about a parent acting in a child's best interest. Mainly happens in child custody cases, but in other situations as well, like criminal/delinquency cases where the parents is the victim. Quick research shows New Mexico is similar. It could be that the boy is in foster care, or his parents could be involved in a custody battle. These kinds of cases are generally confidential, so it would be difficult for us to find out.
As to seekers question, I was fortunate to work for a prosecutor who believed the job was to seek justice, and not win. Many times I did turn over evidence that helped the defense. I like to think I would have anyways...
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As to seekers question, I was fortunate to work for a prosecutor who believed the job was to seek justice, and not win. Many times I did turn over evidence that helped the defense. I like to think I would have anyways...
Glad to hear.....lately, that hasn't been the case with many prosecuters in Texas....