Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Fjolnirsson on November 08, 2012, 12:43:51 PM
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Anybody else sick and tired of Chicken Little since the election? Maybe it's just Facebook, but so far in the last two days I have read three claims of a new "assault weapons ban" in the works. Two by Obama, one by Feinstein. I couldn't find bills or substantiating evidence for either of them.
Granted, we KNOW one is coming. Obama said as much, and Feinstein is Feinstein, after all. Perhaps it would be better to wait until we have evidence of something coming at us, though. Foaming at the mouth and running in circles just makes us look foolish, and wastes energy and attention which could be better used down the road, against actual threats.
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Ayup.
But the NRA will be sending out tomes of written pleas for your money to fight Feinsteinian legislation and the UN Gun Ban Treaty, replete with bold sections, alternated with underline points for dramatic purpose.
Chris Cox and Wayne LaPierre need to get more money to take Washington lobbyists and congresscritters to strip clubs and cigar rooms, after all.
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Ugh. Don't get me started on the NRA. Thankfully, they are three address changes behind me now...
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So we stick our heads in the sand until a new AWB is being debated. If our heads are under the sand we can't see what's going on up there and our butts are up in the air playing TARGET.
Yea. Sounds real smart . . . [tinfoil]
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Panicing before you have anything to fight doesn't accomplish anything either. Have you actually read the Boy Who Cried Wolf? The point is not to pretend there aren't wolves, it's to wait til there are before you rally the troops.
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Panicing before you have anything to fight doesn't accomplish anything either. Have you actually read the Boy Who Cried Wolf? The point is not to pretend there aren't wolves, it's to wait til there are before you rally the troops.
Thank you teach. Have an apple.
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Well, in the interest of not crying wolf without any hard evidence...
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/07/us-arms-treaty-un-idUSBRE8A627J20121107
I'm not crying wolf here yet, but I am keeping the date for these talks in mind so I'll be able to scrutinize them when they occur. Will reassess this treaty thing when that date is met (or earlier, if it's moved up).
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Thank you teach. Have an apple.
Well, that's a substantiative argument.
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Well, that's a substantiative argument.
An appropriate response to a sanctimonious argument.
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So we stick our heads in the sand until a new AWB is being debated. If our heads are under the sand we can't see what's going on up there and our butts are up in the air playing TARGET.
Yea. Sounds real smart . . . [tinfoil]
Show me exactly which part of my post suggests sticking our heads in the sand? No, we need to pay attention, keep an eye on the bills being introduced, and regulatory changes proposed. Frothing at the mouth about things that might happen and attempting to stir people up with fear mongering will bite us in the posterior really quickly, though.
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Nothing wrong with having a game plan.
We are going to need more than just the NRA this time. A little more public visibility and coordinated pressure is in order.
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Show me exactly which part of my post suggests sticking our heads in the sand? No, we need to pay attention, keep an eye on the bills being introduced, and regulatory changes proposed. Frothing at the mouth about things that might happen and attempting to stir people up with fear mongering will bite us in the posterior really quickly, though.
I wasn't necessarily suggesting >>>>you<<<< were sticking your head in the sand, but I tend to see that there are people who are "alarmists" and those who think the "alarmists" are always "crying wolf."
If I had to choose between those two I'd choose the alarmist side just because I think it might be safer.
Keeping your eyes on things, as you suggest, is actually more appropriate, but most of the time I see threads like this the two other extremes seem more prevelant.
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I think we have ample proof of the agenda to disarm us. Locally, globally, every which way.
That's not crying wolf, it's intelligent vigilance and wise preparation. You need to get your troops ready beforehand. We know what's coming sure as hell.
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While it is a bad idea to ignore the current dynamic and where that can lead, let me also say that living life in Condition Yellow is going to be exhausting.
Terrorism isn't about creating actual terror -- that emotion can only be sustained so long before fatigue sets in -- it's about creating a chronic air of anxiety which leads to exhaustion and impaired alertness, as well as self-restriction.
Awareness is not panic.
Create or adopt whatever channels you need to track this dynamic. Have a plan. Have a cadre of some kind that can support your efforts when it comes time for the plan to become action.
There are wolves. They'll show up soon enough. No need for hysterics.
Hysteria will do the same thing "terrorism" does. Alertness, with a plan, with resources is necessary.
When the wolf does show up, make sure he gets a proper welcome.
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I wasn't talking about panic, and I'm not aware of any if there is some out there.
I have noticed that RGR and SWHC are sharply up today. :)
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While it is a bad idea to ignore the current dynamic and where that can lead, let me also say that living life in Condition Yellow is going to be exhausting.
Terrorism isn't about creating actual terror -- that emotion can only be sustained so long before fatigue sets in -- it's about creating a chronic air of anxiety which leads to exhaustion and impaired alertness, as well as self-restriction.
Awareness is not panic.
Create or adopt whatever channels you need to track this dynamic. Have a plan. Have a cadre of some kind that can support your efforts when it comes time for the plan to become action.
There are wolves. They'll show up soon enough. No need for hysterics.
Hysteria will do the same thing "terrorism" does. Alertness, with a plan, with resources is necessary.
When the wolf does show up, make sure he gets a proper welcome.
That's what I was getting at. Thank you, Arfin.. Tommygunn, I apologize for my misinterpretation of your comment. We all know what the grabbers want, what they are going to try to do. As Arfin said, alertness with a plan, not hysteria, is what we need.
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Is it really crying wolf when there really is a wolf present- all the time?
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Rule Number 4 applies as much to gun politics as it does to gun safety....
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Frankly, I'm sick and tired of seeing liberty go down the drain, in so many other ways than *expletive deleted*ing GUNS!!11!!!!!1111!!eleventy1!
And then, the GOP-types keep trotting out 2A hysteria as some sort of panacea to keep the flock in line, as if the 2A is actually to have any bearing when we already lose the 1A (free speech zones), 3A (drones flying freely and hovering over our houses), 4/5/6A (secret FISA courts, imprisonment without trial), 9A (all commerce is interstate commerce, individual rights are subsumed to the perceived needs of the FedGov), and 10A (Fed assault on States attempting to reclaim their own sovereignty).
And the GOP keeps up all these assaults, the same as the Dems.
Forget about the *expletive deleted*ing GUNS!
They should have been used 20 years ago, by every Texan and Idahoan, at Waco and Ruby Ridge, to put a corrupt government back in its place.
The time to use the guns is past.
The weapon now, is money and apathy.
"You don't matter and I can live in spite of you" is a million times more potent than a damned gun.
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And then, the GOP-types keep trotting out 2A hysteria as some sort of panacea to keep the flock in line, as if the 2A is actually to have any bearing when we already lose the 1A (free speech zones), 3A (drones flying freely and hovering over our houses), 4/5/6A (secret FISA courts, imprisonment without trial), 9A (all commerce is interstate commerce, individual rights are subsumed to the perceived needs of the FedGov), and 10A (Fed assault on States attempting to reclaim their own sovereignty).
And the GOP keeps up all these assaults, the same as the Dems.
Forget about the *expletive deleted* GUNS!
They should have been used 20 years ago, by every Texan and Idahoan, at Waco and Ruby Ridge, to put a corrupt government back in its place.
The time to use the guns is past.
When they come to your village/city/neighboprhood to round up people for the 're-education ride' I would argue that guns will become pretty damn important for the rest of your life.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/11/hours-after-obama-victory-us-backs-un-arms-treaty/
What's that sound? Sounds like wolves howling...
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AWB will happen after a high value target is shot.
The shooter will be unemployed male , who lost his house , wife and kids.
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Ayup.
But the NRA will be sending out tomes of written pleas for your money to fight Feinsteinian legislation and the UN Gun Ban Treaty, replete with bold sections, alternated with underline points for dramatic purpose.
Chris Cox and Wayne LaPierre need to get more money to take Washington lobbyists and congresscritters to strip clubs and cigar rooms, after all.
This is awesome formatting and so true, unfortunately.
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AWB will happen after a high value target is shot.
The shooter will be unemployed male , who lost his house , wife and kids.
Or another Colorado. Everyone's mind is on the economy right now. If the Dems put something as contentious as the AWB on the forefront now, it will not look good for them. On the other hand, if there's a mass shooting with an EBR, they WILL take advantage of that, and I'm not so sure the House majority will go much out of the way to block it, because they'll be afraid for their jobs (and keeping the House majority) in 2014.
Joe Public 2 minute attention span doesn't care about the AWB if there's no story to focus on. They do care about it, and want government to "do something now!" If a story about a shooting is all over the MSM.
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Or another Colorado.
Why not the first one? Or any of the others? It seems like they've had the opportunity if they were going to go for it. I doubt the economy will be any better by the time it happens again.
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... if there's a mass shooting with an EBR...
That can be arranged. [tinfoil]
Yeah, that was a blatant bit of tinfoil humor on my part, but, with adequate foreknowledge of a person's particular psychological profile and proclivities I don't think it'd be too hard to push them into a nothing-left-to-lose X-group-is-responsible-for-my-woe situation, and this regime has already demonstrated that it's willing to let people die or go to prison on the basis of political expediency.
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Why not the first one? Or any of the others? It seems like they've had the opportunity if they were going to go for it. I doubt the economy will be any better by the time it happens again.
That why i said, a "high value target". Think President Reagan 1981.
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Why not the first one? Or any of the others? It seems like they've had the opportunity if they were going to go for it. I doubt the economy will be any better by the time it happens again.
Because Obama wasn't in his final term during the first one. Had an AWB been passed prior to this election, Romney may still not have won, but the results would have looked significantly different I think, with perhaps even a Republican majority in the Senate.
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I believe education is the key. If we don't explain what the original AWB banned and how it was just based on cosmetics, it does get converts.
I have a friend on FB who supported it until I explained what it was about. After piquing her interest, she looked it up on her own and came back with "WTH?! It was just plastic parts!". She lives in Portland, OR if that matters...
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I believe education is the key. If we don't explain what the original AWB banned and how it was just based on cosmetics, it does get converts.
I have a friend on FB who supported it until I explained what it was about. After piquing her interest, she looked it up on her own and came back with "WTH?! It was just plastic parts!". She lives in Portland, OR if that matters...
Knowledge is power. Why do you think They(tm) have worked so hard to corrupt the education system and control and subvert the information delivery vehicles (ie. the press)? Disfranchisement, manipulation and control through mass ignorance and carefully delivered misinformation.
....little too tinfoiley? I can't really tell anymore.
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Specific guns may get banned and become pricey, but they will still be on the secondary market. Ammo and primers are not likely to be cheaper than now, I have money now, so i buy ammo and primers now.
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Nothing to see here, just move along ...
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/07/us-arms-treaty-un-idUSBRE8A627J20121107
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Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.
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Nothing to see here, just move along ...
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/07/us-arms-treaty-un-idUSBRE8A627J20121107
I posted that on the previous page. ;) But it bears repeating. Know thine enemy.
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I don't believe much of what Obama says, but I believe he meant what he said during the debate about bringing back the assault weapon ban. I mean, why would he say that if he didn't mean it?
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SWMBO has said that if a ban is put in place I can purchase an EBR. I now have very mixed feelings on an AWB!!
It doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility that an "incident" could be created by those who wish to have another, more permanent, AWB.
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SWMBO has said that if a ban is put in place I can purchase an EBR. I now have very mixed feelings on an AWB!!
It doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility that an "incident" could be created by those who wish to have another, more permanent, AWB.
If another ban is announced you're going to be paying extortionately jacked up prices for an EBR. I can't recommend strongly enough to pick up a stripped lower ($150) and a simple rifle kit ($500) now, instead of waiting till it's over $2000 for that same basic setup.
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What? You don't think that now that the enemy camp has nothing to lose that they aren't planning an attack on us? They were attacking us under the radar with the waffen BATFEces Fast & Furious scam.
I'm willing to bet a couple versions of AWB legislation has already been written. Not to mention the court appointments that will screw us over for the next 30-50 years.
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Specific guns may get banned and become pricey, but they will still be on the secondary market. Ammo and primers are not likely to be cheaper than now, I have money now, so i buy ammo and primers now.
Assuming that it's done like last time with a grandfather clause...you think they'd make THAT mistake again? Think AWB combined with BATFE retroactively "deciding" something that was legal...isn't. They've done it with other things (bump/rapid fire stuff, etc) and other countries who went down that road have thrown in possession stuff. Even if they allowed possession, but prevented private re-sale it would be huge from a legal perspective. For instance, expand the tax stamp to cover not just full auto, but EBR's...and make the stamp more expensive. Would there be a valid secondary market if legal resale required the kind of ATF wait currently (6-7 months, compared to 3-4 just 2–3 years ago) or longer, and $200 to let's say $2000 tax stamp, otherwise, FELONY. That would fit the kind of globalization UN treaty type stuff, and would be defended as merely "protecting" with a non-onerous tax to "pay for enforcement", but would really restrict things.
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That's why I no longer buy guns I don't want for my own use (ie, no guns to flip or as "investments").
Chris
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That's why I no longer buy guns I don't want for my own use (ie, no guns to flip or as "investments").
Chris
Not solely for this reason, but also to pay off my debts, I whittled down my collection of relics and antiques. Went from a nearly 40 piece collection that included a bolt action rifle and side-arm from every major participant in WW2 to just a handful of guns that either have special meaning to me, (My first rifle (a 1903), the Lebel I brought back from Afghanistan, the Weatherby Vanguard that I built, etc.) and a couple "social" items.
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Well, I did notice that my local gun shop had several EBRs on the rack a week ago. They were gone yesterday.