Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: wacki on January 14, 2013, 09:19:31 PM
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Any Guesses on the 19 Executive Actions? What we should be most worried about?
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/01/biden-guns-executive-actions-86187_Page2.html
My guess?
Making the CDC part of a lobby
Banning the imports of Siagas
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I can't say that an import ban is all that worrisome, as ou just slap on a few complaint parts and you are good to do.
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I can't say that an import ban is all that worrisome, as ou just slap on a few complaint parts and you are good to do.
I'm still in the "lots of sound, little substance" camp on the upcoming EO's, however, acknowledging I could be wrong, and playing Devil's Advocate here...
The entire concept of the semi-automatic firearm is on the chopping block here. What happened before under Bush I and Clinton was the "features ban" etc. The way one gets "compliant parts" around an outright import ban on everything is... well, just make it here. So at best, we'd have to wait years while factories and tooling are set up here, assuming the related U.S. agencies aren't directed to be as hostile and foot-dragging on them getting set up.
If he goes that far, we may have to wonder (or hope) over what Russia might do in retaliation if ammo and AK-pattern rifles and Wolf/Barnual/Tula ammo supplies are cut off from import entirely.
Another thing, Mec Gar of Italy is the #1 OEM supplier of magazines for the majority of semi-auto pistols. Not to mention Glock, XD etc. are not made here. Springfield Armory uses lots of offshore Brazilian castings...
If they go for imports, it won't simply be an issue of milling out AK magwells and putting in a Tapco G2 trigger group anymore.
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I wonder what hk & fn might do
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I wonder what hk & fn might do
Aren't most of their sales police/military anyway? I'd bet that any civilian ban wold not extend to police/military purchase.
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It might be a good time to buy that H&K. :D
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It wouldn't surprise me to see him do something affecting imports, and he could probably order prosecution of those who fail NICS checks - from what I understand, only a very small percentage of prohibited persons who attempt to buy guns and are properly rejected by the NICS check are actually prosecuted; an EO could change that.
He could also have the Feds step in with Federal prosecution of prohibited persons who commit state crimes involving firearms, but that would clog Federal courts.
He could try to define a broad class of semis as destructive devices, but given current law, that would be difficult for firearms with a bore less than 0.5" . . . EOs that apply domestically outside the Executive Branch have to have enabling legislation, and I just don't think it's there for anything wide reaching; we'll see.
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It wouldn't surprise me to see him do something affecting imports, and he could probably order prosecution of those who fail NICS checks - from what I understand, only a very small percentage of prohibited persons who attempt to buy guns and are properly rejected by the NICS check are actually prosecuted; an EO could change that.
He could also have the Feds step in with Federal prosecution of prohibited persons who commit state crimes involving firearms, but that would clog Federal courts.
He could try to define a broad class of semis as destructive devices, but given current law, that would be difficult for firearms with a bore less than 0.5" . . . EOs that apply domestically outside the Executive Branch have to have enabling legislation, and I just don't think it's there for anything wide reaching; we'll see.
EO outside of legislation, or even directly contrary to, has been implemented by Obama (long gun reporting), so, I disagree, I wouldn't put anything past el presidente
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EO outside of legislation, or even directly contrary to, has been implemented by Obama (long gun reporting), so, I disagree, I wouldn't put anything past el presidente
IIRC that EO was upheld by the courts.
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IIRC that EO was upheld by the courts.
Still ongoing.
http://www.azcentral.com/news/politics/free/20130109arizona-gun-dealers-challenge-rifle-reporting-requirement.html
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An import ban seems within his power, and as AJ points out would hurt a lot more than just my beloved Ak's.
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Right now, I'm worried that he may look at New York, see that as a big win, and do the same basic thing as an EO. Why? What's he got to lose. If he does impoase a ban, and says "turn them in by 1/31 or face prosecution" the people would have only two options to challenge the EO.
Option #1...get arrested and convicted for violating the EO. Appeal. Lose the appeal, Appeal to SCOTUS. The process could take years, and you may sit in prison while the wheels of justice inch along.
Option #2...a gun owner files suit in Federal Court seeking a declaritory judgement that the EO is unconstitutional. Process takes months. Say Owner wins, Feds will appeal. More months go by. Say Owner wins the appeal, Feds will appeal to SCOTUS. All the Feds would need to do is get one justice to either find that (1) a mag that holds more than 7 rounds is not in the common use, or (2) Heller was wrong. Even if SCOTUS says EO is out because of Heller, we're two + years down the road, and Obama is getting ready to hit the public speaking circuit.
Meanwhile, we all have to choose...obey and give up our mags, or become criminals/rebels.
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Meanwhile, we all have to choose...obey and give up our mags, or become criminals/rebels.
Sheriff Bourne: ...a man learns all the details of a situation like ours... well... then he has a choice.
Mal: I don't believe he does.
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After that (long string of expletives) Roberts hosed us on Obamacare for purely political reasons I don't trust SCOTUS to not reverse Heller.
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After that (long string of expletives) Roberts hosed us on Obamacare for purely political reasons I don't trust SCOTUS to not reverse Heller.
They don't need to reverse Heller. Scalia sold us down the river with his statement that the RKBA is subject tio "reasonable" regulation. That's NOT what the 2nd Amendment says.
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They don't need to reverse Heller. Scalia sold us down the river with his statement that the RKBA is subject tio "reasonable" regulation. That's NOT what the 2nd Amendment says.
If you look at the last 200+ years, every one of the BOR is subject to some level of "reasonable" regulation. That being said, I would have been more happy if they applied strict scrutiny to gun laws. IMO, that would have opened the door to getting rid of most of them.
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I'd forgotten about Scalia's statements...so add anither fear, that a capacity limit is found to be a reasonable restriction. If that happens, we may be lucky to walk away with 10 round limits...
Anyone want to sell me a revolver?
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Sheriff Bourne: ...a man learns all the details of a situation like ours... well... then he has a choice.
Mal: I don't believe he does.
I aim to misbehave >:D
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I aim to misbehave >:D
Shiny. Let's be bad guys.
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NBC news previewed tomorrow's pronouncement from on high...sounds like what we've epected. Push for AWB,10 round limit on mags, universal background checks through congress, mentioned increased penalties for NICS fraud. We'll have to see what tomorrow holds.
Don't mean to sound relieved, but I reall feared a push to follow New York with7 rounds.
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Pray tell, how could any of these things be done via EO?
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The story specifically stated that he was going to push Congress to do the first three.
For now... [tinfoil]
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What about an EO import restriction on materials destined for the firearms industry?
Tooling, metal stock, machinery, etc.
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That may be too obvious a move on all guns, and at least publicly he's not out for all guns. He's just out to stop the cray people from geting high capacity magazines or buying a gun without a background check. Right?
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What about an EO import restriction on materials destined for the firearms industry?
Tooling, metal stock, machinery, etc.
I don't know how exactly that could be controlled. There is far, far too much industry that relies on that tooling domestically to shut down imports on all of it. And enough of that is produced domestically that while increasing the costs, wouldn't be the death knell.
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I don't know how exactly that could be controlled. There is far, far too much industry that relies on that tooling domestically to shut down imports on all of it. And enough of that is produced domestically that while increasing the costs, wouldn't be the death knell.
Like say, adding a tax on certain firearms that at the time was nearly 10 times the cost of the firearm itself (1934, Ithaca Auto & Burglar), or perhaps artificially constraining an entire market thus making a $250 item cost $20,000 (stripped M16 lower)?
When I was in gunsmithing school I made my lathe bits on HSS that was imported from china. Other local manufacturers are still using rifling machines that were built in World War 2 and half century old mills and lathes, machines that will not last forever.
With our domestic material manufacturing bases gutted, from steel mills to tool makers, just how well do you think the smaller and less established businesses will be able to cope with the affordable international suppliers suddenly getting cut off? Without such a diverse market of firearms manufacturers what will happen to the price of the products of the few remaining players? If you think Colt had an excessive mark up now just due to having that prancing pony stamped on the side of their receivers, imagine what that price would be without RRA, DPMS, et alii there to compete with them.
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What about an EO import restriction on materials destined for the firearms industry?
Tooling, metal stock, machinery, etc.
Assuming for a moment he even tries to work within actual legal scope of EO's-
Does he even have that authority under any current law? To restrict materials and not just the firearms themselves?
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I'll be interested in seeing how he'll try to enforce a >10rd mag ban via EO. Mags don't require BATFE approval to make.
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I'll be interested in seeing how he'll try to enforce a >10rd mag ban via EO. Mags don't require BATFE approval to make.
Yet.
Meh we'll know today at noon EST-ish just how deep down the rabbit hole they want to try to go.
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I'm guessing that, regarding FFL dealings, REGISTRATION and BUYER LICENSING will be rearing their ugly heads. Outright confiscation, not a chance. You first need a long period of registration for that. Once the list is lengthy, then it's GO time.
Also, import bans, and future manufacturing restrictions will tried to be implemented.
It's all about killing new blood from joining the ranks, while current owners sit complacent, fooled by the fact that their guns aren't touched.
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I'm guessing that, regarding FFL dealings, REGISTRATION and BUYER LICENSING will be rearing their ugly heads. Outright confiscation, not a chance. You first need a long period of registration for that. Once the list is lengthy, then it's GO time.
California is the shining example of registration = confiscation. I would expect that if the next crazy person mass shooting causes the same political circus this one did, that NY will happily apply their new registration list to the confiscation of whatever "evil" weapon was used in the shooting. The link below has PDFs from the State Attorney Generals at the times to law enforcement and individual targeted owners regarding confiscation. Without inciting illegal activities and simply stating a historical fact, the list of registered weapons owners was MUCH smaller than the number of targeted weapons in the state at the time.
http://www.nrawinningteam.com/confiscation/calockyer.html#letters
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Just watched the press conference and happy to report we and our children are now safe from gun violence. It is over twenty actions, although he didn't say much except background checks, no assault weapons, and magazine limits. I'm sure he has all the details worked out.
Edited to add that apparently what he talked about is what he wants to do. The details of the 23 EAs are different, and less ambitious.
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here is the 23
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jan/16/obama-using-gun-issue-advance-health-law/
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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/01/16/list-executive-actions-obama-plans-to-take-as-part-anti-gun-violence-plan/ (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/01/16/list-executive-actions-obama-plans-to-take-as-part-anti-gun-violence-plan/)
Mostly a bunch of nothing much.
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Some of them, i'm ok with. I'm also glad that the most heinous of the proposals REQUIRE congress.
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here is the 23
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jan/16/obama-using-gun-issue-advance-health-law/
Not bad.
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The List:
1. "Issue a presidential memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system."
2. "Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system."
3. "Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system."
4. "Direct the attorney general to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks."
5. "Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun."
6. "Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers."
7. "Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign."
8. "Review safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission)."
9. "Issue a presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations."
10. "Release a DOJ report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and make it widely available to law enforcement."
11. "Nominate an ATF director."
12. "Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations."
13. "Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime."
14. "Issue a presidential memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence."
15. "Direct the attorney general to issue a report on the availability and most effective use of new gun safety technologies and challenge the private sector to develop innovative technologies."
16. "Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes."
17. "Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities."
18. "Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers."
19. "Develop model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education."
20. "Release a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover."
21. "Finalize regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within ACA exchanges."
22. "Commit to finalizing mental health parity regulations."
23. "Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental health."
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Despite what Biden was crowing about in the way of executive orders, from the look of what he's done, I'd say that someone informed His High and Mightiness that he's not actually Emperor, even though he likes to think of himself that way.
He is positioning himself for another push down the road - note that he wants the CDC to produce data showing that gun control is good, so he can proclaim his agenda has "science" behind it.
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Am i a bad person if I say there are at least a few things on the EO list that I'm OK with?
EDIT: woops, i already said that in this thread. sorry.
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Am i a bad person if I say there are at least a few things on the EO list that I'm OK with?
EDIT: woops, i already said that in this thread. sorry.
Maybe not a bad person, but misguided into believing into Statism.
Either a person is a criminal, or a person is not. I do not label mental health deficiencies of the casual psychiatric sort as crimes or impairments. If you can drive a car, you can have a gun in my opinion.
The more benign issues on these EO's cater to the link that Statists want to build between mental health and gun background checks. The inherent problem is the Statists get to define what good and bad mental health is. You already know that inches given become miles very quickly. Look at this government in the last 12 years.
Give no more.
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Maybe not a bad person, but misguided into believing into Statism.
Either a person is a criminal, or a person is not. I do not label mental health deficiencies of the casual psychiatric sort as crimes or impairments. If you can drive a car, you can have a gun in my opinion.
The more benign issues on these EO's cater to the link that Statists want to build between mental health and gun background checks. The inherent problem is the Statists get to define what good and bad mental health is. You already know that inches given become miles very quickly. Look at this government in the last 12 years.
Give no more.
I fail to see how things like first responder/active shooter training fall into statism...
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1. "Issue a presidential memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system."
Maybe legal EO. Depends if there is existing law and/or SCOTUS decisions. Thankfully, my state runs their own background check system, with info copied from feds. States can set up their own, and not share info back to feds, if desired.
2. "Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system."
Probably not legal EO. Needs Congressional approval to modify HIPPA.
3. "Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system."
Probably legal EO. May need Congressional approval if it deals with taxes.
4. "Direct the attorney general to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks."
Definitely legal EO, as stated. Reviewing doesn't mean anything.
5. "Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun."
Probably legal EO, as stated. Might be interesting if NICS fee is attached.
6. "Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers."
Definitely legal, as stated. Writing a newsletter, or handout.
7. "Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign."
Definitely legal, as stated. Highly suspicious, as I doubt they'll be using Eddy Eagle. Could be a good thing, though. Probably not, but has the possibility.
8. "Review safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission)."
Definitely legal, as stated. CPSC can review standards. Because there are none, sorta.
There is none for gun locks. http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=22222.0
There are standards for safes. But they are UL or DoD.
http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/solutions/standards/accessstandards/catalogofstandards/standard/?id=687_15
9. "Issue a presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations."
Probably legal.
10. "Release a DOJ report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and make it widely available to law enforcement."
Probably legal, already done.
11. "Nominate an ATF director."
Legal, period.
12. "Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations."
Legal, period. Not a bad idea.
13. "Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime."
Probably legal, vague.
14. "Issue a presidential memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence."
Legal, but stupid.
15. "Direct the attorney general to issue a report on the availability and most effective use of new gun safety technologies and challenge the private sector to develop innovative technologies."
Legal, but stupid.
16. "Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes."
Legal, if that is the case.
17. "Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities."
Legal, health care professionals are supposed to report serious threats of violence or harm to law enforcement already.
18. "Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers."
Legal. May need Congressional approval for funding
19. "Develop model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education."
Legal. May need Congressional approval for funding. Probably a good idea anyways.
20. "Release a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover."
Legal.
21. "Finalize regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within ACA exchanges."
Maybe, maybe not legal, vague. May need Congressional approval.
22. "Commit to finalizing mental health parity regulations."
Vague? Obviously legal, because it means nothing.
23. "Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental health."
Legal.
Legal - 15
Probably legal - 6
Maybe - 1
Probably not - 1
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So basically, a lot of fluff with a couple things that can be fought in the normal political way of things?
Phew.
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So would there be a penalty for a patient refusing to answer a doctor's gun question? =(
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Gotta say, a few of the points, I wonder why he needs to order them now, and why they haven't already been done...
9. "Issue a presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations." When I was a prosecutor, we did a trace on any gun that was involved in a crime to (a) look for other crimes it may help resolve and, mor importantly (b) to see if there is a rightful owner we could return the firearm to.
13. "Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime." Again, wasn't DOHJ already doing this?
And, kind of surprised that we didn't see action on imports of firearms, parts, or ammunition.
Wonder when the other shoe is going to drop...or if the "third rail of politics" is still coming into play here...
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So would there be a penalty for a patient refusing to answer a doctor's gun question? =(
Is there a penility for refusing (or lying) when they ask about wanting to harm yourself or others?
Because I'm pretty sure you don't have to tell a doctor anything you don't want to.
Now, if there is a penilty in the making... Oh, HELL NO.
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Looks like the other shoe requires Congress. And the President's press conference today about the EO's that Biden had been bragging about has been held up as the climax of dramatic tension over the whole Sandy Hook incident, so now we're "past it" in a sense, and the angst and attention will be waning, while the next debt ceiling crisis looms in February.
I'm glad my predictions of a lot of fluff in the EO's were right. Heads were exploding all over the Internet, and here too thinking that he could actually "do more".
Is there a penility for refusing (or lying) when they ask about wanting to harm yourself or others?
Because I'm pretty sure you don't have to tell a doctor anything you don't want to.
Now, if there is a penilty in the making... Oh, HELL NO.
Even if there was, it would be impossible to prove in court. A purely paper tiger. Unless you snap the same day as a doctor visit, how could it be proven you didn't make up your mind, or get the idea to go off the deep end the next day?
I swear, some of these EO's are so weak, it's like watching a kid trying to pad a school assignment with extra wide margins, and double line spacing. :P
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Wonder when the other shoe is going to drop...or if the "third rail of politics" is still coming into play here...
Same. And I (softly) agree with some items on the list. Gun locks are garbage. It wouldn't be bad to label them as such.
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I fail to see how things like first responder/active shooter training fall into statism...
With that particular one, I would be most worried that the plans would be full of PC and/or just plain ineffective strategies. And since implemeting "guidelines" from the government is often tied to funding, everyone could be using substandard plans. Moreover, I would have OPSEC cocerns, as a prescribed standardized plan/training for all public schools and first reponders could potentially make it easier for the really bad guys to stage an attack.
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Valid concerns, but statism?
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With that particular one, I would be most worried that the plans would be full of PC and/or just plain ineffective strategies. And since implemeting "guidelines" from the government is often tied to funding, everyone could be using substandard plans. Moreover, I would have OPSEC cocerns, as a prescribed standardized plan/training for all public schools and first reponders could potentially make it easier for the really bad guys to stage an attack.
From a Belslan style super massacre, yes, I agree.
However, from the disgruntled/crazy spree shooter POV, just the deterrent effect that all the kids will be locked up, and more "resource officers" etc. might actually work to a degree.
However, simply eliminating GFSZ's and allowing anyone with a valid CCW, (and making it impossible for the schools to prohibit it for employees or parents by policy) would probably work better, witness how many theaters the Aurora shooter passed up to find the posted one.
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6. "Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers."
Definitely legal, as stated. Writing a newsletter, or handout.
I'd be interested to see where this is going. Are they going to try to "encourage" 4473 forms for private sales, or is this just a piece of the "close the gunshow loophole" puzzle.
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With that particular one, I would be most worried that the plans would be full of PC and/or just plain ineffective strategies. And since implemeting "guidelines" from the government is often tied to funding, everyone could be using substandard plans. Moreover, I would have OPSEC cocerns, as a prescribed standardized plan/training for all public schools and first reponders could potentially make it easier for the really bad guys to stage an attack.
Really good point on OPSEC. Don't want the bad guys to know the response and plan for it...
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So basically, a lot of fluff with a couple things that can be fought in the normal political way of things?
Phew.
or arguably doesn't need to be.
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I know we see it as fluff piece with no real substance...anyone seeing a similar response from the media?
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Valid concerns, but statism?
I believe it is probably a relatively benign statism. However, if the guidelines end up being something that is specifically really bad, it would be less benign.
From a Belslan style super massacre, yes, I agree.
However, from the disgruntled/crazy spree shooter POV, just the deterrent effect that all the kids will be locked up, and more "resource officers" etc. might actually work to a degree.
However, simply eliminating GFSZ's and allowing anyone with a valid CCW, (and making it impossible for the schools to prohibit it for employees or parents by policy) would probably work better, witness how many theaters the Aurora shooter passed up to find the posted one.
Agreed. I think we will be seing some movement at the state level to deal with the GFSZ issue. Since states have some leeway in how they deal with the the GFSZ, I won't be surprised if we see a couple states loosen their restrictions.
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or arguably doesn't need to be.
I would say that the numorous reference to health care and phsyc evaluation, and any legeslation stemming from them, need to be watched closely.
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I would say that the numorous reference to health care and phsyc evaluation, and any legeslation stemming from them, need to be watched closely.
Absolutely.
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I would be very careful about what information I volunteered in a health care setting from now on. There is a lot of nonspecific wording relating to healthcare services in there that I cannot quite make out the meaning of... it can't be good for privacy or freedom.
I am surprised that there was no mention of "assault weapons" or magazines in the text, because in the speech he made quite a show of those topics. Maybe I should re-read the list...
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You know, I was going to try to change the quotes from Pulp Fiction about "You sending the wolf?" to "You sending Plugs?"... but there is absolutely no way to clean up the rest of that quote.
Soooo.... yeah, "You sending Plugs!?"
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Gotta say, a few of the points, I wonder why he needs to order them now, and why they haven't already been done...
I'm not saying that I agree with his approach, but isn't Obama admitting that, given his long term stated view on guns, he has basically not been doing his job for the past four years ???
Forget the guns. Let's blame His Highness for the Massacre of the Children >:D :P
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I think this proves him a Paper Tiger at least with EOs. Battle aint over yet but he didnt do nearly as much damage as we expected
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. . . 14. "Issue a presidential memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence." Legal, but stupid.
Issuing a memorandum is probably legal, but the CDC acting on it may not be. IIRC, the CDC's anti-gun "study" was forbidden and explicitly defunded by Congress some years ago; if that's the case (my memory may be incomplete as to details) then they'd be in violation of the law if they put any taxpayer-funded resources to work on this.
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9. "Issue a presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations."
Especially when they're traced back to Fast & Furious.
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I think this proves him a Paper Tiger at least with EOs. Battle aint over yet but he didnt do nearly as much damage as we expected
I think a few of the EOs (especially guns as health issues) could cause trouble down the road depending how they are used or abused, but mostly I think these are either innocuous or not much different than what gun owners have been saying for years - uphold the laws already on the books.
I'm not sure if the average antis see these as "paper tigers" or, not knowing much about gun laws, think this is a huge win for them. I am hoping for the latter and plan on, when getting schooled by my liberal coworkers and acquaintances, saying, "Yup, dammit - you guys really stuck it to us with these. Damn severe, hope you're happy".
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I'm not sure if the average antis see these as "paper tigers" or, not knowing much about gun laws, think this is a huge win for them. I am hoping for the latter and plan on, when getting schooled by my liberal coworkers and acquaintances, saying, "Yup, dammit - you guys really stuck it to us with these. Damn severe, hope you're happy".
I was thinking similarly. Out there on the internet (which I know should be taken with more than a grain of salt) lots of of the antis are whooping it up and saying things like "ha ha! we've got the NRA on the ropes. Look at thier new ad! It's obvious that they are scared and desperate!" ;/
A lot of the Obama faithful think this was a huge win. I'm glad to let them think that. I will keep pressure on my reps in any way that I can, and hope that the NRA and similar organizations are working quietly behind the scenes to stymie any further legislation. At this juncture, I don't really care about a PR win, a legislative one will suffice for now.
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I was thinking similarly. Out there on the internet (which I know should be taken with more than a grain of salt) lots of of the antis are whooping it up and saying things like "ha ha! we've got the NRA on the ropes. Look at thier new ad! It's obvious that they are scared and desperate!" rolleyes
How abouts we let them think that. Oh the noes! EOs that are laws we already comply with! Teh horror!
Now mind you I'm not a favor of restrictions on guns at all, but hey, at least many of these these are laws we already have vs. what we thought was coming from him.
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Not what I was expecting. I'm definitely in the "gun control as misdirection" camp now. Obama could've followed in the footsteps of Bush the First and really screwed us by Eo'ing import restrictions. The fact he didn't makes me think he's all hat no cattle on this and just putting on a show.
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The fact he didn't makes me think he's all hat no cattle on this and just putting on a show.
I can appreciate that.
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What an idiot. :facepalm:
Well, if it makes the antis think they won something, screw it.
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I expected much worse. Glad he failed to meet my expectations.
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not much different than what gun owners have been saying for years - uphold the laws already on the books.
Speak for yourself, Kemo Sabe ;)
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Not what I was expecting. I'm definitely in the "gun control as misdirection" camp now. Obama could've followed in the footsteps of Bush the First and really screwed us by Eo'ing import restrictions. The fact he didn't makes me think he's all hat no cattle on this and just putting on a show.
I wonder if he backed off on import restrictions because doing so might have started a trade war. ???
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I wonder if he backed off on import restrictions because doing so might have started a trade war. ???
Aside from Russia, we're not importing THAT much. But, it might cause an WIPO law suit. Unlikely, but never know.
Imports aren't that much.
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The other shoe (other, other shoe?) will be the new AWB bill that will soon be introduced. I wouldn't be surprised to see them try to pull of a fast action passage like what just happened in NY.
This fight is just beginning.
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Aside from Russia, we're not importing THAT much. But, it might cause an WIPO law suit. Unlikely, but never know.
Imports aren't that much.
Aren't Glocks imported?
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Aren't Glocks imported?
I heard a rumor of this as well, unless Austria is one of the 57 states.
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The political blog Ulstermann reports from one of his Insiders Obama was headed for full on executive order implementation with confiscation in play. The speech was written but someone on the democrat side of the isle got to him explaining the absence of congressional support and the real threat of the NRA "going to war". Anyhow, Obama was handed another speech and what he delivered today was that speech.
I'm not sure I believe all of it. I do believe Our President was ready to over-reach. Was there a palace coup that shut down a potentially bad gun defeat for him? Don't know. What I do know is he will be back in some form or fashion in a more virulent form.
http://theulstermanreport.com/2013/01/16/republican-insider-obama-livid-over-gun-rights-backlash/
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Aside from Russia, we're not importing THAT much. But, it might cause an WIPO law suit. Unlikely, but never know.
Imports aren't that much.
It was Russia that I was specifically thinking about. Particularly because of the various pissing matches we have been having with them lately over various issues.
Aren't Glocks imported?
They have moved a lot of production and assembly to Georgia.
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Aren't Glocks imported?
Unfortunately.
I kid, I kid. Imports are nice, and I like the extra selection. Just saying it is not huge cash. Couple billion, tis probably it.
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Glocks may be made in Austria, Smyrna Georgia, or a combination of both places. (Frame in Georgia, slide in Austria)
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The political blog Ulstermann reports from one of his Insiders Obama was headed for full on executive order implementation with confiscation in play. The speech was written but someone on the democrat side of the isle got to him explaining the absence of congressional support and the real threat of the NRA "going to war". Anyhow, Obama was handed another speech and what he delivered today was that speech.
I'm not sure I believe all of it. I do believe Our President was ready to over-reach. Was there a palace coup that shut down a potentially bad gun defeat for him? Don't know. What I do know is he will be back in some form or fashion in a more virulent form.
http://theulstermanreport.com/2013/01/16/republican-insider-obama-livid-over-gun-rights-backlash/
If it's even 5% true, I'm happy. It means to me "Yes, they really are that out of touch/stupid."
Being that tone-deaf goes way beyond the normal Beltway/Northeast/Left-coast "bubble".
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So were these EOs the thing Biden was supposedly in charge of, or is he supposed to be working on legislation?
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13. "Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime."
TSA VIPR team stop and rob on the interstate. Find a gun, subject you to a TS SCI level "background check" AKA prove yourself innocent at great expense. Prosecute for any trifling violation of how the gun was transported. Look, right now I have a bag of loaded AK mags in the car but no AK, leftovers from the range. I have a Glock with 3 very large mags and an AR-15 with mags and a live in the cold bag. Why? Because I can. Now if stopped I would obviously be on my way to a mass shooting right?
Semi-unrelated, I once drove through a roadblock on a night that the DC sniper shot someone. In a large white truck. With a loaded AR under the seat. I have no doubt they would probably still be trying to pin that on me had they searched the truck. They were still in the lone, crazy white male phase of the investigation then.
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Look at what Jocasse just endured. If he hasn't been able to hire decent tile crawler they would have been all to happy to bend him over knowing full well he wasn't guilty of anything. Add in federal oversight and he'd probably be at Gitmo by now.
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TSA VIPR team stop and rob on the interstate. Find a gun, subject you to a TS SCI level "background check" AKA prove yourself innocent at great expense. Prosecute for any trifling violation of how the gun was transported. Look, right now I have a bag of loaded AK mags in the car but no AK, leftovers from the range. I have a Glock with 3 very large mags and an AR-15 with mags and a live in the cold bag. Why? Because I can. Now if stopped I would obviously be on my way to a mass shooting right?
Semi-unrelated, I once drove through a roadblock on a night that the DC sniper shot someone. In a large white truck. With a loaded AR under the seat. I have no doubt they would probably still be trying to pin that on me had they searched the truck. They were still in the lone, crazy white male phase of the investigation then.
That was the only EO that bothered me. By "gun crime", do they mean someone using a gun in a "real" crime or do they mean things like Jocasse's incident? I'm ok with the former. If you commit a violent crime with a gun, tack a few years on top of the sentence. If it's the latter, well, I live near DC. There is a real threat of making a wrong turn in the border areas and ending up in DC. so the idea of being a "gun criminal" for doing something like entering DC with a box of ammo in your truck is worrisome.
Chris
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Are you all suggesting full DUI type chechpoints to search vehicles fr firearms at random? That would be a blessing for our side. First time the feds caused a traffic jam that big, everyone would be screaming at them, not just the RKBA crowd. And please let them do it somewhere near a big tourist xestination so every car is packed with luggage. [popcorn]
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Are you all suggesting full DUI type chechpoints to search vehicles fr firearms at random? That would be a blessing for our side. First time the feds caused a traffic jam that big, everyone would be screaming at them, not just the RKBA crowd. And please let them do it somewhere near a big tourist xestination so every car is packed with luggage. [popcorn]
I don't think the Feds would care, anyway. We already put up with DUI checkpoints and the BS TSA security theater. What makes you think the people won't put up with this?
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Don't forget what happened to everyone's favorite old codger, Vaskidmark.
IMHO, all we're seeing is a flanking maneuver.
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That was the only EO that bothered me. By "gun crime", do they mean someone using a gun in a "real" crime or do they mean things like Jocasse's incident? I'm ok with the former.
I would prefer to have seen that EO read "crime (or violent crime) committed with a firearm". I agree that the term "gun crime" is ripe for abuse in the wrong hands. Words have meaning(s). See: http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=37842.0
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I don't think the Feds would care, anyway. We already put up with DUI checkpoints and the BS TSA security theater. What makes you think the people won't put up with this?
I think that if the Feds put up a blockade on an interstate highway and cause hours of delays for hundreds of people, they will start to care. Nothing like causing a traffic jam to get people riled up.
And, let's say they did put up a roadblock. Come up to the window and ask "Got any guns in the car?" Driver says "no." Are they going to do random searches of the vehicles? A good vehicle search takes a good bit of time. Jocass's situation was a little differnt...his rifle was (properly) in plain view in the back seat. Put a pistol in my trunk in a suitcase when I'm traveling for vacation, and it may take you half an hour to find it. Multiply this by the number of vehicles on the interstate, and the delays it would cause...people would scream. Look how they scream when the airports get backed up.
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I think that if the Feds put up a blockade on an interstate highway and cause hours of delays for hundreds of people, they will start to care. Nothing like causing a traffic jam to get people riled up.
And, let's say they did put up a roadblock. Come up to the window and ask "Got any guns in the car?" Driver says "no." Are they going to do random searches of the vehicles? A good vehicle search takes a good bit of time. Jocass's situation was a little differnt...his rifle was (properly) in plain view in the back seat. Put a pistol in my trunk in a suitcase when I'm traveling for vacation, and it may take you half an hour to find it. Multiply this by the number of vehicles on the interstate, and the delays it would cause...people would scream. Look how they scream when the airports get backed up.
And yet all that screaming still hasn't stopped TSA agents from molesting children on a daily basis, has it?
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IMHO, all we're seeing is a flanking maneuver.
Please explain.
I'm a little worried that gun folks will think this fight is over, and be asleep when some worse EO or worse legislation comes about, maybe weeks from now.
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I'm a little worried that gun folks will think this fight is over, and be asleep when some worse EO or worse legislation comes about, maybe weeks from now.
I agree. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a set of particularly egregious EOs waiting in the wings that will be enacted in response to congress being "unwilling to act to reduce gun violence." That is when he could trot out a stricter import ban and will be using the tired old "no one needs and AK to deer humt anyway" justification.
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Vaskidmark pointed his finger at someone and got popped for brandishing or terroristic threatening or something idiotic like that.
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The political blog Ulstermann reports from one of his Insiders Obama was headed for full on executive order implementation with confiscation in play. The speech was written but someone on the democrat side of the isle got to him explaining the absence of congressional support and the real threat of the NRA "going to war". Anyhow, Obama was handed another speech and what he delivered today was that speech.
I'm not sure I believe all of it. I do believe Our President was ready to over-reach. Was there a palace coup that shut down a potentially bad gun defeat for him? Don't know. What I do know is he will be back in some form or fashion in a more virulent form.
http://theulstermanreport.com/2013/01/16/republican-insider-obama-livid-over-gun-rights-backlash/
Without doubt. We cannot have "progress" without the neutralization--as the Soviets used to say--of the reactionaries. Now all we need to wait for is the amnesty and the removal of annoying conservatives on the airwaves.
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IMHO, all we're seeing is a flanking maneuver.
Please explain.
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Vaskidmark pointed his finger at someone and got popped for brandishing or terroristic threatening or something idiotic like that.
What? When? At whom?
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What? When? At whom?
I disremember the details, may wanna ask him direct.
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What? When? At whom?
A couple years ago. Open carrying, was headed for the ferry. Saw some tsa "no guns" type signs and decided to turn around. Stopped by security personnel. Got into an argument and pointed his finger in the argument. Po-po arrested him. Bullshit trumped up charges.