Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Perd Hapley on January 24, 2013, 08:17:31 PM
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http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/suburbs/naperville/chi-naperville-smart-meter-arrest-20130123,0,6519967.story
This is only the second time I've heard of this. Does anyone know more about this issue?
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I'm not sure what version of the so called smart these are.
Some are readable from a distance by the device. So a guy still needs to ride down the street and read them, they just don't have to get out and look at each one.
The other version they have been trying to perfect for years sends a signal back down the power line. Last time I saw anything about those there was the problem of the signal not making it very far down the line. Transformers also did not allow the signal to pass very easily.
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The city wants everybody to have a smartmeter. They cook up a scheme with the electic utility to charge an exhorbitant fee to install (??) (thought the non-smartmeter meters were already in place) a non-smartmeter meter, and neatly $25/month to have someone go read it.
These two do not want a smartmeter - for a variety of whackdoodle reasons. The city has in place a mechanism for dealing with non-smartmeter customers that involves billing them as opposed to arresting them and throwing them in jail.
The city decides to disregard that mechanism and arrests them and throws them in jail. :facepalm:
Naperville is going to have to enact a parade ordinance if they do not already have one, in order to deal with the lawyers that will be coming to offer their services for the standard cut of the proceeds.
[popcorn]
stay safe.
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People are afraid of multiple things with smart meters. One is hackers getting in and turning off their power. Another is the electromagnetic fields that are being used, but they will put a cell phone up to their head.
Here in OH, you either allowed them to install smart meters (gas and electric) or the utility company would disconnect you from the grid. We have had semi-smart water meters for years. By semi-smart, I mean they drive a van down the road and read your meter via radio waves. If they want to turn your water off they still have to come and manually do it at the street.
ETA: Actually N_R a lot of the utility companies have put in mesh wireless networks, so they don't even have to drive down you street to read the meter. Our electric/gas company states that I can see my actual usage within 24 hours after use.
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The real fear most people have with smart meters is that the goobermint will start using the technology to monitor and ration power usage.
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Yup. It has been a big issue around here because people claim that we don't need to be exposed to all those radio waves and the meters are not accurate.
“It was forced on my house today,” she said. “It was really a violation. I violated something, but I’ve been violated too so I guess we’re now in a society of violating one another.”
The city, which has repeatedly declared the wireless meters to be safe, offers a non-wireless alternative meter to residents with concerns. There is a $68.35 initial fee for a non-wireless meter plus a $24.75 monthly fee for manually reading it. Stahl said residents who want a non-wireless meter should not have to pay for it, and said she represents other homeowners who were not able to continue to refuse the wireless meter installation.
“I have not done the work of attempting to educate the community and advocating for the right of anybody in Naperville to refuse the smart meter just to stand off to the side,” she said.
I thought the only place having issues with smart meter installations was here in good ol' NORCAL. Some of the same people I saw complaining about the smart meters had a cell phone glued to their ear and spent a lot of their off time in front of a computer screen.
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Oh, so this really is a thing. I didn't know that it was a thing. I thought it was a non-thing, but apparently not.
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The real fear most people have with smart meters is that the goobermint will start using the technology to monitor and ration power usage.
Yep, forgot that one. That is the biggest one.
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I like the smart meters. Ever since I was a kid, we dreaded the day the meter reader would come. They drove like maniacs, tore up the driveway, cussed at the dogs (who were doing their job by barking at asshats who tore up the driveway), and much of the time read the dang meter wrong anyway.
Now the idiot just drives down the street and never has to enter the driveway. Dog is happy, I'm happy.
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Smart meters work hand in hand with energy star appliances. Supposedly, smart meter equipped homes with appropriate appliances can alter the frequency of the power so that your laundry dryer or plasma tv will not work during power rationing, but your fridge and heater will.
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Smart meters work hand in hand with energy star appliances. Supposedly, smart meter equipped homes with appropriate appliances can alter the frequency of the power so that your laundry dryer or plasma tv will not work during power rationing, but your fridge and heater will.
Frequency is one thing they can't really mess with. By can't I don't mean oughtn't, I mean it's really not possible.
They do have smart disconnects for electric water heaters and central A/C compressors so they can be shut off remotely during peak demand. I think the homeowner gets a discount for letting them install one.
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Smart meters work hand in hand with energy star appliances. Supposedly, smart meter equipped homes with appropriate appliances can alter the frequency of the power so that your laundry dryer or plasma tv will not work during power rationing, but your fridge and heater will.
I hadn't heard this one yet. Conspiracy central (aka rural NORCAL) is obviously behind the 8 ball on this one or my ear is not as glued to the ground as I thought it was. Maybe they figured out that I am a government plant!!!!!!
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Frequency is one thing they can't really mess with. By can't I don't mean oughtn't, I mean it's really not possible.
They do have smart disconnects for electric water heaters and central A/C compressors so they can be shut off remotely during peak demand. I think the homeowner gets a discount for letting them install one.
Ah they are going it, messing with the frequency. http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/06/25/it-hertz-when-you-do-that-power-grid-to-stop-regulating-60-hz-frequency/ (http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/06/25/it-hertz-when-you-do-that-power-grid-to-stop-regulating-60-hz-frequency/)
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I have a little bit of experience in this field, having cataloged over 14,000 distribution transformers for Connecticut Light & Power last year.
First of all, what the hell is anyone doing cutting locks to gain access to anyone's property? If I did that I would have been fired so fast I'd warp back in time. Second, no distribution transformer currently on the market is capable of processing the kind of information they're talking about, and power companies will not replace a transformer unless it stops working or blows up. The oldest one I saw was a 1947 Westinghouse and it was still on the line, transforming away.
Lastly, while I'll always come down on the side of the property owners, any health concerns here are complete bunk. That being said, it is clearly wrong for the municipality to twist their arm as goons for the power company.
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George Noory's COAST-TO-COASTAM is running a show tonight on the topic of smart meters. Perhaps he'll discover whose behind the plot, the MEN IN BLACK, the Bilderbergers, or Space Aliens.
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I thought the Bilderbergers were Space Aliens.
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I thought the Bilderbergers were Space Aliens.
No. They just eat babies wrapped in gold foil.
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No. They just eat babies wrapped in gold foil.
Doesn't everyone?
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Doesn't everyone?
Nope, just the reptilians.
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According to the Progressive Electric Company spokesman here in central Florida, a smart meter is so fast and accurate the power company can tell what types of appliances are in use and what show is playing on the TV ... Cable or NetFlix or DVD ... I believe in the not too distant future we'll see discussions of smart meter evidence just like we now see evidence provided by cell tower pings ... Wow !! I guess I'd sound paranoid if I had anything to hide ... ;/
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Wouldn't a frequency change affect a lot of large and expensive synchronous motors operating off grid power? The systems monitoring the larger motors do track frequency. Our company has one in the area that is 35,000 HP. I know there are larger models.
As far as smart meters, I just don't really want someone shutting off my power. I don't care much about the remote read.
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The real fear most people have with smart meters is that the goobermint will start using the technology to monitor and ration power usage.
This is exactly why I am paying to keep my old analog meter.
That, and there are more than a few reports of exhorbitant high bills after a smart meter install.
Sawdust
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This is exactly why I am paying to keep my old analog meter.
That, and there are more than a few reports of exhorbitant high bills after a smart meter install.
Second is true. There have been more than a few reports of "hey, my bill has jumped up quite a bit..." from folks that don't sound like they wear tin foil.
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"First of all, what the hell is anyone doing cutting locks to gain access to anyone's property?"
To access THEIR property, i.e., the meter.
From the sounds of it, and while the article doesn't specifically say, my guess is that it was done with a court order permitting access.
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seemingly normal folk can be real crazy.
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So, folks have a gut feeling, without necessarily knowing any details of the technology, that these will be used for nefarious purposes.
Gee, where do you think they could have gotten that idea?
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A meter that enables them to read it wirelessly from a distance? Fine. A meter that does anything other than read how much electricity I use? No way in hell. It is not the power company or .gov's business what I use my 'lectricity for, so long as I pay for it.
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"Gee, where do you think they could have gotten that idea?"
Holding a cell phone up to their ear for far too long.
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A meter that enables them to read it wirelessly from a distance? Fine. A meter that does anything other than read how much electricity I use? No way in hell. It is not the power company or .gov's business what I use my 'lectricity for, so long as I pay for it.
Hmmm. I know that up here in the Seattle area, I have read the occasional media story about electricity use tipping off LEO as to the presence of indoor marijuana grow operations.
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Hmmm. I know that up here in the Seattle area, I have read the occasional media story about electricity use tipping off LEO as to the presence of indoor marijuana grow operations.
Cause they do it don't make it right
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So, folks have a gut feeling, without necessarily knowing any details of the technology, that these will be used for nefarious purposes.
Gee, where do you think they could have gotten that idea?
Knowing a bit more about the tech, there are better and worse models. The lower end ones have more issues. I've heard of everything ranging from smart meter using non-trivial amount of power (billed to customer), to using same SSH key for every smart meter, to remote disable vulnerabilities, etc. Better models do mesh, use trivial amounts of power, good authentication schema, etc. But they cost more.
The "smart meter knows all you do!", yea... no. Possible in a lab. Real world? Not practical. Van eck phreaking is significantly more practical.
"Smart meter can mess with my major appliances". Practical, but so stupid it's not funny. Leave frequency alone, please.
Electrical company folks can legally access your meter, nothing more or less. If you put a fence around your entire property, and leave the the meter outside or accessibly outside (know someone that cut a hole in the fence for the reader), they can't force entry onto your property.
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Hmmm. I know that up here in the Seattle area, I have read the occasional media story about electricity use tipping off LEO as to the presence of indoor marijuana grow operations.
I'm also familiar with them using FLIR cameras to view folks' homes as well. Avenger is correct, can doesn't mean right.
Just FYI, last I heard, it's basically not legal to jam any radio traffic. Passive material jamming is usually legal, but building codes usually forbid the most effective techniques.
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Hmmm. I know that up here in the Seattle area, I have read the occasional media story about electricity use tipping off LEO as to the presence of indoor marijuana grow operations.
And, of course, there have been cases where they raided the wrong house simply because they went above a certain kWh amount too many days in a row.
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Hmmm. I know that up here in the Seattle area, I have read the occasional media story about electricity use tipping off LEO as to the presence of indoor marijuana grow operations.
Reminds me of a funny story. I grew up in the snow belt of Ohio (NE OH) and we would average 120" a year of snow (obviously not all at once.) My parents still live up there and related the following:
Some Asian guys rent a house and turn it into an indoor marijuana grow operation. The sheriff's department discovered the operation due to the fact that this was the only house in the neighborhood that didn't have any snow on the roof the entire winter, from the heat of the grow lamps. :rofl:
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there have been cases where they raided the wrong house simply because they went above a certain kWh amount too many days in a row.
my google fu is weak i ran a search looking for those "cases" could you point to one for me?
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Ah they are going it, messing with the frequency. http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/06/25/it-hertz-when-you-do-that-power-grid-to-stop-regulating-60-hz-frequency/ (http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/06/25/it-hertz-when-you-do-that-power-grid-to-stop-regulating-60-hz-frequency/)
Not keeping it at exactly precisely on the dot can use it to tell time with 60hz is not the same as altering the frequency as a control mechanism.
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there have been cases where they raided the wrong house simply because they went above a certain kWh amount too many days in a row.
my google fu is weak i ran a search looking for those "cases" could you point to one for me?
Here are a couple I found right away:
http://blogs.computerworld.com/18335/bitcoin_miners_busted_police_confuse_bitcoin_power_usage_for_pot_farm
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/crime/elevated-electric-bill-prompts-pot-raid
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The remote read meters ???
We got those a couple years back. We used to read our own meter, and write it down on the part of the bill that you send back with the payment.
I'm sorry, I just ain't too worked up about our member owned co-op in Montana.
There have been more than a few reports of "hey, my bill has jumped up quite a bit..." from folks that don't sound like they wear tin foil.
Oh, yeah - our bill jumped too. [tinfoil]
The billing cycle changed and we had about 1.5 months on one bill ;/
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Here are a couple I found right away:
http://blogs.computerworld.com/18335/bitcoin_miners_busted_police_confuse_bitcoin_power_usage_for_pot_farm
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/crime/elevated-electric-bill-prompts-pot-raid
keep looking
the first one refers to an internet chat about a rumour and see line 18 of page 3 of the warrant on your second link. it debunks the "simply because they went too high on electric bill
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Possible reason why electric bills have give up...
The old analog meters were defective and were not reading correctly.
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Ah they are going it, messing with the frequency. http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/06/25/it-hertz-when-you-do-that-power-grid-to-stop-regulating-60-hz-frequency/ (http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/06/25/it-hertz-when-you-do-that-power-grid-to-stop-regulating-60-hz-frequency/)
I have a recollection that they bagged that experiment. Could be wrong, though.
In any event, it's not the meters doing the frequency changing, that's being done at the generation point. While meters could be built that could alter line frequency, they would be much larger and complex than the smart units what with the added power circuitry and necessary heat sinking.
More low quality tin foil head wear craftmanship.
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So, folks have a gut feeling, without necessarily knowing any details of the technology, that these will be used for nefarious purposes.
Gee, where do you think they could have gotten that idea?
[tinfoil] Oh...I dunno.......
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Hmmm. I know that up here in the Seattle area, I have read the occasional media story about electricity use tipping off LEO as to the presence of indoor marijuana grow operations.
I wonder if I get on any "lists" with my green house and using grow lights that can be seen through the windows when I'm starting tomato and pepper plants.
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I wonder if I get on any "lists" with my green house and using grow lights that can be seen through the windows when I'm starting tomato and pepper plants.
It's been nice knowing you =)
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keep looking
the first one refers to an internet chat about a rumour and see line 18 of page 3 of the warrant on your second link. it debunks the "simply because they went too high on electric bill
There are numerous reports that back up the bitcoins story, and the Carlsbad case the electricity was the biggest piece of PC presented.
But, I know how much you love a big raid, so carry on with your confirmation bias.
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I guess that we're probably next on the list to get our door busted down, because it is like, you know, winter - and after almost ten years here and getting a bit older we decided to turn the baseboard electric heaters to Low and not go downstairs and feed the woodstove in the middle of every night.
=|
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There are numerous reports that back up the bitcoins story, and the Carlsbad case the electricity was the biggest piece of PC presented.
But, I know how much you love a big raid, so carry on with your confirmation bias.
your irony about confirmation bias was great
how many is numerous? and you think the electric bill trumped the snitch? and the dog alerting? no bias at all.... =D
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If a high electric bill is enough to trigger a raid I'll be waiting to see Algores mansion on the news. :P
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A couple of things.
1. Like a couple of other Chicago suburbs, the city of Naperville owns and runs the electric, water, and wastewater utilities. So it's the city going after the residents, not a utility company and not the city on behalf of a utility. (One reason I live where I live, I get my electricity from Constellation Energy and deliverd by ComEd's wires.)
2. I have a smart water and electric meter. I get Lake Michigan water and the city of Chicago is sticking it to the DuPage water board, so rates went up this year. It's really good water and beats the hell out of the iron and sulfur rich well water we used to get. so I'll pay it. On well city well water, you never felt clean after a shower, the toilet bowl was always stained red, and you could tell by the smell when someone opened a tap. [barf] [barf]
3. A few years ago I agreed to let Comed install a gizmo on the outside breaker box for the A/C. They give $10 a month off on my electric in the summer months and they can "cycle" my A/C when demand is really high. Like I care, since I very, very rarely run the A/C. I ran it two days last year, because it's 68* in the basement all year. So they end up not cycling anything and my electric bill drops to $30-$35 per month in summer when everyone else's is going through the roof. =D ;)
4. Which is why I laugh when I get telemarketers that call who try to tell me I can save $75-$200 a month on electricity if I install their solar panels or somesuch. "You'll pay me ?" I ask. Once I explain how little I use and what my average monthly bill is (roughly $45 per month). They give up.
5. I don't like the idea of Comed (or the city of Naperville) being able to arbitrarily adjust my power (usage) without my consent, if Whack-A-Doodle #1 and Whack-A-Doodle #2 don't like what Naperville is doing, move.
6. I lived in Germany which is 220V, 50Hertz AC. Unless you have 50 cycle electronics it plays bloody hell with 60cycle stuff. Yeah, you could get transformers to step down to 110V, but it fried electronics on epic scales and royally screwed up anything with a clock or timer. (Clocks lost ~10 seconds every minute.) I have no doubt that at some point they may on orders from the .gov play with how much electricity us proles get. (Carbon tax, Cap & Trade and on and on.)
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I wonder if I get on any "lists" with my green house and using grow lights that can be seen through the windows when I'm starting tomato and pepper plants.
Friend of mine had a visit from the police a few years ago. Apparently, someone had spotted marijuana plants on her window sill. Except these marijuana plants turned out to be tomato plants she was trying to grow. Police still confiscated them, then some time later, she got a letter saying "yes, they turned out to be tomato plants, not marijuana". She also got 2000 krona in compensation for them. She had bought them for 50 krona or something, so she didn't complain about that :laugh:.