Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: TechMan on February 06, 2013, 08:28:27 AM
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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/02/06/postal-service-to-cut-saturday-mail-to-trim-costs/ (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/02/06/postal-service-to-cut-saturday-mail-to-trim-costs/)
Guess they finally had to face the writing on the letter. I don't know how they are going to do it without Congressional approval. Also, what are the unions going to do about this?
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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/02/06/postal-service-to-cut-saturday-mail-to-trim-costs/ (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/02/06/postal-service-to-cut-saturday-mail-to-trim-costs/)
Guess they finally had to face the writing on the letter. I don't know how they are going to do it without Congressional approval. Also, what are the unions going to do about this?
Well... I'm thinking they'll make sure that all the letter carriers that did Saturday delivery remain gainfully employed doing something productive like counting the holes in ceiling tiles, sorting paperclips by size, etc....
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My Saturday mail carrier is almost always different than my mon-fri carrier (though I've been seeing different faces there throughout the week for a couple of years now). Don't know if they are part-time or overtime, or what. If part-time or overtime, it should save significant money, and I for one would not be very worked up about not getting a Saturday delivery. A lot of times I find myself just checking the mail every other day anyway. My snail mail is predominantly bills and advertising. Most other correspondence, as well as bills, come in electronically.
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If they'd just end junk mail delivery EVERY day, and charge $1 per meaningful piece of mail delivered, I'd be good with that. ;/
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If they'd just end junk mail delivery EVERY day, and charge $1 per meaningful piece of mail delivered, I'd be good with that. ;/
Junk mail is what is partly keeping them afloat.
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If they'd just end junk mail delivery EVERY day, and charge $1 per meaningful piece of mail delivered, I'd be good with that. ;/
Over here, all you need to do is put a tiny sticker/note on your mailbox/mail slot; "No junk mail". Voila, about 99% of all junk mail is now a memory. =) Only exception is the stuff that's adressed to you directly, and "vital social information", which is a clever way of printing up a free newspaper with a few pages, most of it advertising, but also a few minor news pieces. ;/. Oh, and political stuff around election time, but I can live with that =).
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If they'd just end junk mail delivery EVERY day, and charge $1 per meaningful piece of mail delivered, I'd be good with that. ;/
I'd be good with that too. Without junk mail I'd get about 5 pieces of mail per week.
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When I heard that priority and express mail are still going to be delivered on Saturday, I was completely underwhelmed. I can't imagine a piece of first-class mail that absolutely cannot wait until Monday, yet was not sent either Priority or Express.
However, it does kind of annoy me that they keep their monopoly on First Class yet are going to stop delivering on Saturday. Eventually, they will probably phase out first class mail altogether, keep Priority mail, and still refuse to allow anyone else to deliver first-class mail.
Personally I kind of wish they had stopped delivery on Thursday or something and kept Saturday delivery.
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Junk mail doesn't bother me too much, my apartment's recycling bin is ten feet from the mailboxes. =D
I will miss Saturday delivery, but only because I still have a small sense of excitement checking the mail left over from my youth. Other than that I don't think it will cause any problems.
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Junk mail is what is partly keeping them afloat.
I have a hard time believing that.
The steeply discounted rates for junk mail, combined with their high density/weight/mass, means they are carrying large amounts of paper around in stop-and-go driving fashion and sticking the paper in delivery boxes for their lowest profit margin product.
Conversely, UPS/FEDEX residential deliveries maybe visit 1% of homes in any given neighborhood on any given day, with meaningful packages that have a delivery fee schedule that make it worthwhile for UPS/FEDEX to operateas profitable enterprises.
USPS is essentially a government subsidized version of "those guys" walking around your neighborhood, paid to drop off 1000 fliers for the day. Those guys make bupkis for money because they are unskilled and generally undesirable workers. USPS pays their employees more than "those guys," but has a junk mail delivery fee schedule that is competitively on par with "those guys." They have marketing literature in the post office encouraging people to buy junk mail delivery routes, and how it is comparable in price to idgits walking around and stuffing fliers on door handles.
This means that tax payers are subsidizing junk mail.
Let the junk mail route consumers buy their own privatized delivery systems. They exist ("those guys" walking around your neighborhood with messenger bags full of fliers). It will build the free economy.
And let the USPS be a proper mail delivery system rather than a tax payer subsidized mechanism of artificially cheap advertising for businesses.
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I have a hard time believing that.
The steeply discounted rates for junk mail, combined with their high density/weight/mass, means they are carrying large amounts of paper around in stop-and-go driving fashion and sticking the paper in delivery boxes for their lowest profit margin product.
Conversely, UPS/FEDEX residential deliveries maybe visit 1% of homes in any given neighborhood on any given day, with meaningful packages that have a delivery fee schedule that make it worthwhile for UPS/FEDEX to operateas profitable enterprises.
USPS is essentially a government subsidized version of "those guys" walking around your neighborhood, paid to drop off 1000 fliers for the day. Those guys make bupkis for money because they are unskilled and generally undesirable workers. USPS pays their employees more than "those guys," but has a junk mail delivery fee schedule that is competitively on par with "those guys." They have marketing literature in the post office encouraging people to buy junk mail delivery routes, and how it is comparable in price to idgits walking around and stuffing fliers on door handles.
This means that tax payers are subsidizing junk mail.
Let the junk mail route consumers buy their own privatized delivery systems. They exist ("those guys" walking around your neighborhood with messenger bags full of fliers). It will build the free economy.
And let the USPS be a proper mail delivery system rather than a tax payer subsidized mechanism of artificially cheap advertising for businesses.
Believe it. Postal Service: We need more junk mail (http://money.cnn.com/2012/03/20/smallbusiness/postal-service-junk-mail/index.htm)
How are you as a taxpayer subsidizing junk mail?
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Believe it. Postal Service: We need more junk mail (http://money.cnn.com/2012/03/20/smallbusiness/postal-service-junk-mail/index.htm)
How are you as a taxpayer subsidizing junk mail?
From your linked article:
The cost to small businesses is 14.5 cents per mail piece.
Junk mail is delivered to the USPS by the customer, so 1/3 of the cost of the pickup/delivery equation is gone... the pickup. Now you have the sorting/routing, and the delivery.
However, a stamp is what... $0.45 now? So junk mail costs 1/3 of stamped mail, but consumes 2/3 of the resources. Now granted, the terms for complying with junk mail rates includes the fact that some of the pre-sorting is done by the customer when submitting the mail.
It still doesn't negate the fact that that piece of mail involves stop-n-go driving at every mail box in a route, every 40-50 feet, while hauling thousands of pounds of paper in a little white jeep-thingy. As well as the folks in the mail delivery system that have to fling around the boxes full of junk mail the same as boxes full of 1st class mail the same, but for 1/3 the rate.
The bottom line:
Because idgit walking around neighborhood gets paid $X amount to deliver 1000 fliers.
USPS charges $X amount to deliver 1000 fliers.
X= X in either case.
However, idgit (and infrastructure behind idgit) gets paid less and has lower operating cost than USPS. Idgit operating costs = $Y, and USPS operating costs (for portions pertaining to junk mail) = $Z.
$Z > $Y.
So, $X - $Y = profit.
But, $X - $Z = loss. As we keep hearing from the USPS. Woe is them, operating at a loss.
So, the operating model of USPS is flawed, if $X - $Z does not generate profit or break even.
Lose $X and $Z from the equation entirely. Focus on $A and $B and $C, where $A and $B are the respective gross sums from 1st class and priority/express mail programs, and $C is the operating cost of delivering those products.
Priority/Express are cost competitive with UPS/FEDEX, so if they operate at a loss then USPS is just flat-out doomed.
1st class could operate just fine at $0.50 per item, if USPS would commit to only delivering 1st class and Priority/Express. Residential deliveries would be more frequent than the 1% that UPS/FEDEX does daily, but probably no more than 10% on any given day... rather than 100% every day.
This ends up reducing the amount of mail sorted, the amount of mail trucked all over, the amount of mail picked up and the amount of mail delivered. Junk mail moves to privatized blanket-area delivery systems via low cost foot courier (i.e. "idgit").
USPS would have to lay off significant portions of its workforce, but the logistical systems behind low cost foot courier businesses would need that expertise. And it would then not be a component of government... it would be a business to stand on its own 2 feet. Or fail. As is proper.
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I can almost heat my house with junk mail. I don't want to be cold on Sunday.
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UPS could probably run the mail better. And charge junk mailers whatever it took for it to be profitable, thus ending a lot of junk mail. Thing I don't get is why UPS/Fed-ex and to a small bit DHL do not cooperate and deliver each others packages on the last leg at mutually equal rates. I'm 60 miles from distribution hubs and yet I see 2-3 different vehicles out here everyday. A lot of America is wide open space. I know that Fed-ex uses contractors, but they still pay them based on performance. UPS has a huge fleet cost that could be lowered. And they both whiz on by the mail carrier delivering junk mail on $3.50/gal gas.
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UPS could probably run the mail better. And charge junk mailers whatever it took for it to be profitable, thus ending a lot of junk mail. Thing I don't get is why UPS/Fed-ex and to a small bit DHL do not cooperate and deliver each others packages on the last leg at mutually equal rates. I'm 60 miles from distribution hubs and yet I see 2-3 different vehicles out here everyday. A lot of America is wide open space. I know that Fed-ex uses contractors, but they still pay them based on performance. UPS has a huge fleet cost that could be lowered. And they both whiz on by the mail carrier delivering junk mail on $3.50/gal gas.
Weird thing is, UPS and USPS do do that. You can send it out through UPS, but it is delivered by USPS.
Thing is, it works worse then just one or another. =|
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Weird thing is, UPS and USPS do do that. You can send it out through UPS, but it is delivered by USPS.
Thing is, it works worse then just one or another. =|
As does FedEx and USPS.
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I'm confused ...
How will will ending Saturday mail deliveries for one month a year save that much money ???
=|
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I'm not sure of the cost effectiveness of UPS and Fedex for regular mail delivery. Do I think they have a very efficient model? Heck yeah. It truly amazes me when I think about it, especially for overnight, that they can get stuff delivered on time (and to the correct address!), what, probably 95% of the time?
The cost though, I'm not sure about. UPS has the current fed.gov contract for parcel delivery. Whenever I go into my work account to ship something, it shows me the gov rate as well as the "consumer" rate. Two weeks ago I shipped a Dell R720 server overnight. With it's large size and weight, it cost me ~$65 at the government rate. The consumer rate was ~$360!!!!!
I'd be curious to see what a UPS consumer rate would be for first class envelopes. The UPS rate for their 8x10 envelope, at the gov rate varies, if I remember right, from ~$3-$6 depending on delivery type, from ground to next morning. So even if they had a corner on the letter market, I'm not sure they could get below a dollar per item. One thing I have to give the post office credit for is that for under 50 cents I can get a letter anywhere in the US in generally under a week. The rate for their "any weight you can get in the box" rate is pretty phenomenal too, especially for the delivery speed. I cringe imagining what the order of a couple thousand lead bullets I got last week would have cost at UPS / Fedex delivery prices.
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I'm confused ...
How will will ending Saturday mail deliveries for one month a year save that much money ???
=|
It is a permanent end not just a 1 month thing, it starts in August. Sorry for the confusion in the subject line.
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I'm not sure of the cost effectiveness of UPS and Fedex for regular mail delivery. Do I think they have a very efficient model? Heck yeah. It truly amazes me when I think about it, especially for overnight, that they can get stuff delivered on time (and to the correct address!), what, probably 95% of the time?
The cost though, I'm not sure about. UPS has the current fed.gov contract for parcel delivery. Whenever I go into my work account to ship something, it shows me the gov rate as well as the "consumer" rate. Two weeks ago I shipped a Dell R720 server overnight. With it's large size and weight, it cost me ~$65 at the government rate. The consumer rate was ~$360!!!!!
I'd be curious to see what a UPS consumer rate would be for first class envelopes. The UPS rate for their 8x10 envelope, at the gov rate varies, if I remember right, from ~$3-$6 depending on delivery type, from ground to next morning. So even if they had a corner on the letter market, I'm not sure they could get below a dollar per item. One thing I have to give the post office credit for is that for under 50 cents I can get a letter anywhere in the US in generally under a week. The rate for their "any weight you can get in the box" rate is pretty phenomenal too, especially for the delivery speed. I cringe imagining what the order of a couple thousand lead bullets I got last week would have cost at UPS / Fedex delivery prices.
I don't think it matters who's doing it. The old model will not get the volume of regular mail to be cost efficient, regardless of who's in charge.
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From your linked article:
Junk mail is delivered to the USPS by the customer, so 1/3 of the cost of the pickup/delivery equation is gone... the pickup. Now you have the sorting/routing, and the delivery.
However, a stamp is what... $0.45 now? So junk mail costs 1/3 of stamped mail, but consumes 2/3 of the resources. Now granted, the terms for complying with junk mail rates includes the fact that some of the pre-sorting is done by the customer when submitting the mail.
It still doesn't negate the fact that that piece of mail involves stop-n-go driving at every mail box in a route, every 40-50 feet, while hauling thousands of pounds of paper in a little white jeep-thingy. As well as the folks in the mail delivery system that have to fling around the boxes full of junk mail the same as boxes full of 1st class mail the same, but for 1/3 the rate.
The bottom line:
Because idgit walking around neighborhood gets paid $X amount to deliver 1000 fliers.
USPS charges $X amount to deliver 1000 fliers.
X= X in either case.
However, idgit (and infrastructure behind idgit) gets paid less and has lower operating cost than USPS. Idgit operating costs = $Y, and USPS operating costs (for portions pertaining to junk mail) = $Z.
$Z > $Y.
So, $X - $Y = profit.
But, $X - $Z = loss. As we keep hearing from the USPS. Woe is them, operating at a loss.
So, the operating model of USPS is flawed, if $X - $Z does not generate profit or break even.
Lose $X and $Z from the equation entirely. Focus on $A and $B and $C, where $A and $B are the respective gross sums from 1st class and priority/express mail programs, and $C is the operating cost of delivering those products.
Priority/Express are cost competitive with UPS/FEDEX, so if they operate at a loss then USPS is just flat-out doomed.
1st class could operate just fine at $0.50 per item, if USPS would commit to only delivering 1st class and Priority/Express. Residential deliveries would be more frequent than the 1% that UPS/FEDEX does daily, but probably no more than 10% on any given day... rather than 100% every day.
This ends up reducing the amount of mail sorted, the amount of mail trucked all over, the amount of mail picked up and the amount of mail delivered. Junk mail moves to privatized blanket-area delivery systems via low cost foot courier (i.e. "idgit").
USPS would have to lay off significant portions of its workforce, but the logistical systems behind low cost foot courier businesses would need that expertise. And it would then not be a component of government... it would be a business to stand on its own 2 feet. Or fail. As is proper.
Most of the direct mail is presorted by others and not the USPS. The bulk mail is delivered to "Network Distribution Centers" in trays that are presorted in to Zip+4 order.
I know in my experience that there is not much stop and go for the USPS delivery person in our neighborhood. As the park their vehicle and walk to every house up and down the street.
From the article it appears that part of the problem is that USPS is required, by law to prefund health care benefits for its workers.
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I know in my experience that there is not much stop and go for the USPS delivery person in our neighborhood. As the park their vehicle and walk to every house up and down the street.
How much of that suburban urban park and walk deliveries is offset by the rural stop and go deliveries (and much of it in SUV and 4WD vehicals) at a lower volume of mail over a larger territory?
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How much of that suburban urban park and walk deliveries is offset by the rural stop and go deliveries (and much of it in SUV and 4WD vehicals) at a lower volume of mail over a larger territory?
Good question....I cannot answer that, but I am sure that somewhere there is a database that has that information.
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I'm not sure of the cost effectiveness of UPS and Fedex for regular mail delivery. Do I think they have a very efficient model? Heck yeah. It truly amazes me when I think about it, especially for overnight, that they can get stuff delivered on time (and to the correct address!), what, probably 95% of the time?
The cost though, I'm not sure about. UPS has the current fed.gov contract for parcel delivery. Whenever I go into my work account to ship something, it shows me the gov rate as well as the "consumer" rate. Two weeks ago I shipped a Dell R720 server overnight. With it's large size and weight, it cost me ~$65 at the government rate. The consumer rate was ~$360!!!!!
I'd be curious to see what a UPS consumer rate would be for first class envelopes. The UPS rate for their 8x10 envelope, at the gov rate varies, if I remember right, from ~$3-$6 depending on delivery type, from ground to next morning. So even if they had a corner on the letter market, I'm not sure they could get below a dollar per item. One thing I have to give the post office credit for is that for under 50 cents I can get a letter anywhere in the US in generally under a week. The rate for their "any weight you can get in the box" rate is pretty phenomenal too, especially for the delivery speed. I cringe imagining what the order of a couple thousand lead bullets I got last week would have cost at UPS / Fedex delivery prices.
It's amazing how cheap you can work when you're losing money... :laugh: =|
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I wonder what the adjusted cost of First Class postage is over the history of the USPS.
IOW, if it was a nickel in 1955, would 50 cents nowadays be totally out of line? ???
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I wonder what the adjusted cost of First Class postage is over the history of the USPS.
IOW, if it was a nickel in 1955, would 50 cents nowadays be totally out of line? ???
But the amount of mail sent out (and postage perchased) is so much less. I'm supprised it hasn't gone up more.
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How much of that suburban urban park and walk deliveries is offset by the rural stop and go deliveries (and much of it in SUV and 4WD vehicals) at a lower volume of mail over a larger territory?
Around here most of the rural carriers drive personally owned vehicles and use the tax right off to pay for it.
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Around here most of the rural carriers drive personally owned vehicles and use the tax right off to pay for it.
are they post office employees or independent contract curiours?
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SO far as I know they are USPS employees. Not sure of the details but there are IRS rules about using your vehicle for the job. The rural mail carriers I've talked to say the tax breaks and mileage makes up for the use of the private car.
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are they post office employees or independent contract curiours?
I think some are contract but I have no first hand knowledge.
Also, many new neighborhoods are set up with mail boxes all in one place or just a few places. They don't go to every house.
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Almost all rural carriers are contract. The trend out here in BFE is to go to part time post office employees too in order to dodge the benefits. hat is the correct plan, but I personally know 15 year postal employees that may not make it to retirement due to job down-sizing.
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When a buddy and I were about 13, we were walking through the woods behind my house and came out at the dead end of a street that was being created. The final half mile wasn't even paved yet and there were only houses on the other end. In this secluded spot, we saw our mail carrier's car parked next to another vehicle. You couldn't really see anybody in either car, but the mail car was kinda rockin' in a don't come a-knockin' fashion.
:O
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It is a permanent end not just a 1 month thing, it starts in August. Sorry for the confusion in the subject line.
=D =D =D
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When a buddy and I were about 13, we were walking through the woods behind my house and came out at the dead end of a street that was being created. The final half mile wasn't even paved yet and there were only houses on the other end. In this secluded spot, we saw our mail carrier's car parked next to another vehicle. You couldn't really see anybody in either car, but the mail car was kinda rockin' in a don't come a-knockin' fashion.
:O
Special delivery
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SO far as I know they are USPS employees. Not sure of the details but there are IRS rules about using your vehicle for the job. The rural mail carriers I've talked to say the tax breaks and mileage makes up for the use of the private car.
You generally can either depreciate and expense all of your costs or claim a mileage rate for use. More record keeping for the depreciation and tracking expenses, but generally more favorable tax wise.
I am surprised it has taken this long to make this change. The big change if it is enacted is the next day first class mail delivery within a certain range going to two day. Essentially everything gets bumped one day longer. I don't believe this is included in the current proposal but it was previously.
The USPS is between a rock and hard place. They are a quasi governmental agency and subject to the whims of the legislature. If they are a government agency, then they should just be brought back to solvency just like all the other government agencies spending money. If they are a private business, they should be able to make their own business decisions.
I feel sure closing a bunch of small post offices in urban and rural areas will bug a lot of people, but the whole thing has gotten obese. The fat needs to be cut. The sooner it happens the better.
I for one have been using the USPS for my business stuff much more this year than the last few. I just can't justify spending $30 > $60 for a small package delivery any more when I only loose a single day in terms of delivery. I have already made changes to my project structure and if a customer wants next day delivery, they pay for it beyond the price I quote. My savings in January alone were over $300 and I am a very small business. FedEx misses my smiling face several times a week now.
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This might be good for business.... run on PO box rentals so the holder can continue to get saturday delivery of mail.