Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Battle Monkey of Zardoz on February 15, 2013, 08:37:25 PM
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http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/02/15/group-of-second-amendment-supporting-gun-makers-now-refusing-to-sell-arms-to-law-enforcement-in-new-york-and-other-gun-restricting-states/
Lets hope more companies start this.
Based on the recent legislation in New York, we are prohibited from selling rifles and receivers to residents of New York. We have chosen to extend that prohibition to all governmental agencies associated with or located within New York. As a result we have halted sales of rifles, short barreled rifles, short barreled shotguns, machine guns, and silencers to New York governmental agencies.
For “civilian” customers residing in New York:
At your choice, we will:
complete your order and ship to a dealer of your choice outside of NY
refund your payment in full
hold your items here for up to 6 months, at no charge – if you are in the process of leaving NY and taking residence in another state.
For LE/Govt customers in New York:
Your orders have been cancelled.
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Where's the "like" button?
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Calls and email inquires about any changes to their law enforcement sales policies have not been returned by Glock, Sig Sauer, and Smith & Wesson. If there is any additional information available, we will update this story.
Interesting. Very interesting.
They sense... pressure.
The absense of a blanket "we support our valuable men and women in law enforcement blahblahyacketiyak" soundbite suggests something... interesting... is possible.
Frankly, I'm waiting for Springfield Armory to get on this bandwagon. Their 1911's aren't likely to be banned by anywhere since they have a nasty MSH lock integrated into their product and only run 8 rounds (7 with original design mags). But the M1A product line and the XD product line don't have much LEO presence, while having HUGE non-governmental presence. It's practically the gun of the revolution, according to Appleseed and Boston's Gun Bible and Fred's various SGN columns.
And XDm's strike me as the striker-fired race gun. Huge capacity, ninjatudiness, porting, OEM fiber optic sights, chromed magazines to make 'em slippery falling out of the mag well (as opposed to flat black for better concealment and no glare). The race gun industry has already been through one AWB, and resurfaced. They will not want to go through it again... especially the shooters.
Dollars to donuts that Colt/FN/Beretta never get on "our side" though.
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The absense of a blanket "we support our valuable men and women in law enforcement blahblahyacketiyak" soundbite suggests something... interesting... is possible.
Yep. The absence of that was first in my mind. Thought it was interesting. Just didnt want to get my hopes up. But I don't blame them, hell I'm going to order from them. All the national police associations Et al are begging for gun control. If anything, they should target departments specifically. F em and feed them fish heads
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Where's the "like" button?
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi6.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy233%2Fbtgoober%2Fposted%2520pix%2Flike_zps268df4e1.png&hash=32fc0b366fe86645b9df7428bb068e571768fa85)
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Didn't Barrett go through this with CA some years back?
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Did you notice CTD is on there trying to rebuild their reputation?
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Did you notice CTD is on there trying to rebuild their reputation?
Oh, yes.
I've never bought from them, anyway.
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I've always thought their name should have been "Cheaper Then [High Yield Gold Bearing] Dirt" but it does beg the question: If a company does something stupid and gets Zumboed, then sees the light should we forgive them? After an appropriate penance?
As a community the gun folks need to use carrots as well as sticks. I dunno. Like I said I don't really use them, but prior to the AR thing I would have if they'd ever had a good price. After their sellout not only would I not buy regardless of price I told my less politically involved friends to stay away. Luckily for me in this case it's a moot point as the odds of CTD having a good price on a good product are pretty low.
Although, if Glock were to see the light I might add a G20 back to the list of 10's I'm shopping for.
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I've always thought their name should have been "Cheaper Then [High Yield Gold Bearing] Dirt" but it does beg the question: If a company does something stupid and gets Zumboed, then sees the light should we forgive them? After an appropriate penance?
As a community the gun folks need to use carrots as well as sticks. I dunno. Like I said I don't really use them, but prior to the AR thing I would have if they'd ever had a good price. After their sellout not only would I not buy regardless of price I told my less politically involved friends to stay away. Luckily for me in this case it's a moot point as the odds of CTD having a good price on a good product are pretty low.
Although, if Glock were to see the light I might add a G20 back to the list of 10's I'm shopping for.
I would say that for CTD to see the light, they would probably have to live up to their name and actually sell stuff cheaper then (regular) dirt.
Trying to make up for stupid and hanging,with the cool kids doesn't work unless you actually where cool at some point.
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Considering that CTD has *expletive deleted*ed us over many a time my suggestion is they need to be put out of business by consumers not buying from them.
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I had to go take a virtual crap on CTDs Fb page. They've been lowlife for years, not seeing it change. Better question, what about Kimber, Remington, and others that give NY state lots of tax revenue and build moslty lower capacity "good" guns? Whay support them?
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I If a company does something stupid and gets Zumboed, then sees the light should we forgive them? After an appropriate penance?
It's happened. S&W seems to have redeemed itself in the minds of the hardcore.
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After reading about all those companies willing to pull out of that gun show a while back, this doesn't suprise me to much. Makes me happy.
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After reading about all those companies willing to pull out of that gun show a while back, this doesn't suprise me to much. Makes me happy.
I think that shows more than anything, we in the transition where among the shooting and outdoor crowds where EBRs and modern weapons have become the mainstream things for shooters to get into. Wheras the previous generations started out with sporterized rifles or hunting type rifles and hunting and some plinking as the main things to do in shooting, this generation has EBRs, modern pistols, shooting sports like IDPA, 3 gun and so forth, and even stuff like suppressors and SBRs are becoming very popular. Instead of wood stocked hunting rifles and long barreled shotguns the "old geezers hanging around the gun counter" are talking about ARs and Saiga shotguns.
It's a good time to be a shooter for sure. Lots of interesting guns, lots of interesting stuff to do with guns. Also seeing a major demographic shift in people coming into shooting...lots of women and high school and college age people, for example.
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I had to go take a virtual crap on CTDs Fb page. They've been lowlife for years, not seeing it change. Better question, what about Kimber, Remington, and others that give NY state lots of tax revenue and build moslty lower capacity "good" guns? Whay support them?
Some companies are doing the right thing and NOT supporting states that trample on folks' rights . . . maybe there should be a "sportsman's boycott" of companies that continue to sell guns, ammo, etc., to NY government entities.
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I was really surprised to see last night on one of the local news channels a story about exactly this... They were talking about the fact that a *lot* of gun companies were being actively courted by "free" states. The centerpiece was Remington in NY.... And while Remington wouldn't say anything on camera, they released a statement that they were "considering all their options"....
While I feel for the people that would lose their jobs due to something like this, I hope that manufacturers start taking these laws and shoving them up politician's fourth point of contact.... Sideways... And make *VERY* public statements that the *ONLY* reason they are leaving the state is because, "these lawmakers (and name the mofos specifically!) decided that they would make our products illegal in this state, so we had no choice but to move our manufacturing facilities and (x number of) jobs to a state that respects our Second Amendment rights."
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And I'm *very* glad to have bought my AR's lower from York Arms... Once they start making them again (they're churning out just AR-15 lowers right now) I want to get an AR-10 lower from them....
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I don't feel sad at all for anyone in a less free state losing their jobs when the politicians run their state in the ground. Move somewhere more free, leave those politics behind.
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Perhaps these Weapon Makers have read A.E. van Vogt.
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Perhaps these Weapon Makers have read A.E. van Vogt.
Should be required reading for all APS-ers. ;)
(Also recommend The Probability Broach.)
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I was really surprised to see last night on one of the local news channels a story about exactly this... They were talking about the fact that a *lot* of gun companies were being actively courted by "free" states. The centerpiece was Remington in NY.... And while Remington wouldn't say anything on camera, they released a statement that they were "considering all their options"....
While I feel for the people that would lose their jobs due to something like this, I hope that manufacturers start taking these laws and shoving them up politician's fourth point of contact.... Sideways... And make *VERY* public statements that the *ONLY* reason they are leaving the state is because, "these lawmakers (and name the mofos specifically!) decided that they would make our products illegal in this state, so we had no choice but to move our manufacturing facilities and (x number of) jobs to a state that respects our Second Amendment rights."
I most sincerely hope we manage to beat the crap back in this state.
As I keep repeating in my dunning "respect our rights" emails to freshman Devilcrat rep. Cheri Bustos, in this district alone we have Springfield Armory, Armalite, Rock River Arms, Lewis Machine and Tool, and Forster Products. As well as companies unknown to most, that feed these industries. Pretty busy little corner of the state. Hate to see them go.
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Should be required reading for all APS-ers. ;)
(Also recommend The Probability Broach.)
Broach is available for free (http://www.bigheadpress.com/tpbtgn) online. (The author's own adaptation to the "graphic novel" format, very close to the book's story.)
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Should be required reading for all APS-ers. ;)
I agree. :)
After I posted, I actually went to dig the book out because I thought it would be fun to reread it. Damned if it looks like it was one of the paperbacks in a giveaway sack I gave away a few years ago. Not available on Kindle, and I'm kicking myself because it looks like the copy I had is in the $20 range used on Amazon.
Lee - thanks for that link!
/thread drift (by me anyways) :)
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Lee - thanks for that link!
/thread drift (by me anyways) :)
While you're there, look at Roswell, Texas (http://www.bigheadpress.com/roswell).
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I don't feel sad at all for anyone in a less free state losing their jobs when the politicians run their state in the ground. Move somewhere more free, leave those politics behind.
While I support companies moving, we simply cannot write off every state. We need to do what we've done with CCW/LTC. Win back each state one at a time. If we keeping running/moving from one state to another, they simply follow us and overwhelm us with numbers. We need to stand and fight everywhere.
Recall Captain John Parker's words at Lexington Green
"Stand your ground; don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here."
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Where's the "like" button?
Here it is:
http://www.firearmspolicy.org/take-action/industry/
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While I support companies moving, we simply cannot write off every state. We need to do what we've done with CCW/LTC. Win back each state one at a time. If we keeping running/moving from one state to another, they simply follow us and overwhelm us with numbers. We need to stand and fight everywhere.
Recall Captain John Parker's words at Lexington Green
Not proud of myself for this sentiment, no, not at all. But I was somehow able to contain my compassionate instincts when Sandy and then Nemo visited our friends in the Northeast. How's that Blue model workin' for ya there, buckaroo?
If we fight everywhere, we may not win anywhere. Pick the battles you can win, and win them big. Consider what the map looks like.
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Another bump for York Arms.
Wally is good people. I've got a couple of ARs based on his lowers. Love that you can customize pretty much everything on them.
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Daniel Defense is now on the Good Guy's list.
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Daniel Defense is now on the Good Guy's list.
Did they release a statement or something? The googles didn't reveal anything when I searched.
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I prefer not to buy from companies based in NY or IL. Don't like my revenue supporting those .gov's even indirectly.
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Not proud of myself for this sentiment, no, not at all. But I was somehow able to contain my compassionate instincts when Sandy and then Nemo visited our friends in the Northeast. How's that Blue model workin' for ya there, buckaroo?
If we fight everywhere, we may not win anywhere. Pick the battles you can win, and win them big. Consider what the map looks like.
Uh huh.
I don't know which state you live in. You realize statistically speaking, your state probably does not trump Pennsylvania when it comes to firearms freedom. We have 1 firearm law that forbids all others. It specifically makes infringing on firearm rights by law enforcement a crime, with listed offenses. We have a $25 LTCF (which grants more than just concealed carry rights) good for 5 years, with must-issue for anyone that can legally own a firearm. It's specifically a crime (see above) if they charge an extra penny. I guarantee we have more hunters, gun owners and firearms. Self-defense is in our state constitution, and is more strict wording than the Second Amendment. We have Castle doctrine and civil immunity.
Short of codifying "Screw you feds, we'll blast ya if ya enforce your shine or gun laws!" into law (I have heard state politicians essentially say this, at public rallies), what else could you ask for?
Vermont was the first Constitutional carry state. New Hampshire's motto is "Live Free or Die", which is reflected in their firearm laws. Maine is nearly as good as PA.
If you can't trump all of the above, you are correct that you shouldn't feel proud. You should feel ashamed.
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Apparently more companies are signing on.
Bullwater Enterprises
Westfork Armory
Smith Enterprise
Alex Arms
Spike’s Tactical
Quality Arms
Liberty Suppressors
Doublestar Corp
American Spirit Arms
Trident Armory
Head Down Products
J&G Sales
Good stuff. I already liked JG sales and Spike's. A couple of them are calling Armalite out as well.
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Uh huh.
I don't know which state you live in. You realize statistically speaking, your state probably does not trump Pennsylvania when it comes to firearms freedom. We have 1 firearm law that forbids all others. It specifically makes infringing on firearm rights by law enforcement a crime, with listed offenses. We have a $25 LTCF (which grants more than just concealed carry rights) good for 5 years, with must-issue for anyone that can legally own a firearm. It's specifically a crime (see above) if they charge an extra penny. I guarantee we have more hunters, gun owners and firearms. Self-defense is in our state constitution, and is more strict wording than the Second Amendment. We have Castle doctrine and civil immunity.
Short of codifying "Screw you feds, we'll blast ya if ya enforce your shine or gun laws!" into law (I have heard state politicians essentially say this, at public rallies), what else could you ask for?
Vermont was the first Constitutional carry state. New Hampshire's motto is "Live Free or Die", which is reflected in their firearm laws. Maine is nearly as good as PA.
If you can't trump all of the above, you are correct that you shouldn't feel proud. You should feel ashamed.
So, then, PA is good to go? Okay, I will feel real bad about any bad things that happen to them. Except for Ed Rendell voters. And Phillies fans.
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http://www.thepoliceloophole.com/ (http://www.thepoliceloophole.com/)
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Rock River Arms, Bravo Company USA, Smith Enterprises.
They're not huge volume manufacturers... RRA and BCM are mid-size. Smith is small... but probably the only precision M14 maker left out there. Definitely the only one left that does EBR-style rigs as a primary product line rather than traditional M14's.
I still see no Colt, FN, Glock, Springfield. Silence implies consent.
I'm rather surprised to not see Kel-Tec on here. They seem to be the type of company that SHOULD be on our side... but make firearms that would greatly appeal to LEO's as backup guns. Their P32/P3AT/PF9 line. If I were a motorcycle cop I'd have a folding SU-16 somewhere in my bike, or a SUB-2000 mated to my service pistol magazine type. But they sell MUCH more to the lay market than the LEO market. It's in their interest to be on our side.
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Smith is small... but probably the only precision M14 maker left out there.
I take it you don't like Fulton Armory.
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I take it you don't like Fulton Armory.
Nope, I like them a lot. Walt has always been kind enough to answer questions I email him in regards to maintenance on my M14, and I've bought both of his books on the M14 and AR-15. I have a lot of respect for them.
But they changed their logo/name in the last few years to "Fulton ARmory" (emphasis on capital AR) to signify a refocusing on the AR platform rather than the M14. And they don't specialize in the enhanced battle rifle (EBR) platform. They're mostly a High Power catering business.
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M14/M1A rifles don't have to be configured with tacticool stocks just to make them "precision".
Clint and Walt were the ones who explained to me why the ARMS #18 scope mount was the way to go.
I bought one from Clint, and it's been a delight.
It would be interesting to hear their take on selling to LE in ban states...
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Rock River Arms, Bravo Company USA, Smith Enterprises.
They're not huge volume manufacturers... RRA and BCM are mid-size. Smith is small... but probably the only precision M14 maker left out there. Definitely the only one left that does EBR-style rigs as a primary product line rather than traditional M14's.
I still see no Colt, FN, Glock, Springfield. Silence implies consent.
I'm rather surprised to not see Kel-Tec on here. They seem to be the type of company that SHOULD be on our side... but make firearms that would greatly appeal to LEO's as backup guns. Their P32/P3AT/PF9 line. If I were a motorcycle cop I'd have a folding SU-16 somewhere in my bike, or a SUB-2000 mated to my service pistol magazine type. But they sell MUCH more to the lay market than the LEO market. It's in their interest to be on our side.
Keltec had this on FB:
Be expecting a Kel-Tec formal letter as it pertains to sale of Kel-Tec products to states that have unconstitutional arms control laws against its citizens.
Sounds like they're going to.
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Keltec had this on FB:
Sounds like they're going to.
And there's a "LIKE" for them as well. Wish I could afford to make a purchase from one or more of these companies, but I am absolutely tapped out.