Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Ned Hamford on April 02, 2013, 12:27:26 PM
-
http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=18842383&ref=https%3A%2F%2Fm.facebook.com
A German family just had their asylum in the US overturned as their homeschooling had the German government fining them and threatening their custody. Apparently homeschooling has been illegal in Germany since 1918. While not absolute, the right to home school has been acknowledged in the US. The administration has simply commented on the State Dept.'s broad prosecutorial discretion; so arguably its a case decision rather than any established policy. What say you Bolthole; does a bar on homeschooling rise to asylum level?
The threat of taking away your children for the possibly benign does seem extreme; but I can see it bogging down the state dept. and worse making results individual agent dependent rather than any macro rhyme or reason. I'd like an official policy.
-
The only problem is that they're not Mexicans :facepalm:
I say why not let them stay, absent any contra-indications.
-
Anything the government forces you to do is persecution.
The idea of mandatory education disgusts me.
-
Anything the government forces you to do is persecution.
Anarchist. :P
-
Well, it is not a particularly good idea and in many districts I would equate it to abuse of the child. Mayhap taxation for mandatory education is abuse of the taxpayer, too?
For my own part, I'd think we would want more educated folks who are not a burden on the taxpayer. Like the folks in the story. Instead, we will send them home and take on uncounted illiterates from Mexico & points south.
Citizenism: The belief that government ought to put the well-being of the citizenry ahead of non-citizens. Included in that is an immigration policy that assumes as its basis, that immigration policy ought to put the interests of current citizens first.
-
The idea of mandatory education disgusts me.
To make it worse, its not even an education they are forcing upon people, its indoctrination.
It would be reasonable to expect a graduate from the system to be able to read, write, and even count change correctly, I won't even get into the complete lack of useful skills or trades taught in these youth internment camps- unless you consider parroting worthless gibberish about global warming or evil corporations as a life skill.
-
For my own part, I'd think we would want more educated folks who are not a burden on the taxpayer. Like the folks in the story. Instead, we will send them home and take on uncounted illiterates from Mexico & points south.
In high level sports, they say it takes 10,000 hours of training and practice to attain the highest level of skills.
That's roughly the amount of time that schools get to take children away from their families to make them obedient little minions of the state.
-
If you can't opt out it is coercion and yes IMHO, persecution.
-
what kinda visa are they here on? aren't they illegal aliens?
i mean they have an accent and all.
-
what kinda visa are they here on? aren't they illegal aliens?
i mean they have an accent and all.
Political refugees have several programs/means/visas open to them. It is abused quite often, so that a large proportion of them are actually economic "refugees."
Care to tell us the relative proportion of German vs Central & South American illegal aliens?
-
they have an anchor baby
-
they have an anchor baby
Care to tell us the relative proportion of German vs Central & South American anchor babies?
McKanders also says that public policy implications as far as the United States' relationship with Germany could also be in play in this case, and that immigration officials may be wary of setting a precedent that establishes homeschooling as a means for asylum.
"They don't want to open up the floodgates for similar asylum claims based on these grounds," she said.
Well-educated, well-behaved, and employable-in-a-21st-century-economy folks coming to this country would be a tragedy.
-
aren't they taking jobs away from americans? do we have a shortage of pianists? music teachers?
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1968099,00.html
-
They're just homeschooling kids that Americans are too lazy to homeschool =D
-
I have really mixed feelings about homeschooling. I've seen it done very well, and those who come from it be very well educated and capable of pursuing higher education at the college level, or capable of doing well in the work-force. On the other hand, I've seen those who use homeschooling as an excuse to keep out of the system, and the only education done is how to keep out of the system. The products of this type of home-schooling come through my courtroom all the time. The new homeschooling, with on-line components, seems to be middle of the road. Some do well, others do nothing. I've always believed that those who do very well in homeschooling would have done well in any school situation.
One key aspect that I have noticed is that the parents who homeschool and produce good results make sure that their children are involved in many peer activities, so that their social and interpersonal skills are as well developed as their knowledge base. Those who use homeschooling as a means of hiding out produce kids that cannot carry on a conversation.
As to kicking out this family, gotta agree. If we're letting all of these people in simply because the economy offers them a chance to make more money here than it did back home (i.e. Mexican migrant farm workers), then we should be letting this family in as well. I know it's not P.C. of me, but it smells a lot like discrimination based on country of origin...
-
One key aspect that I have noticed is that the parents who homeschool and produce good results make sure that their children are involved in many peer activities, so that their social and interpersonal skills are as well developed as their knowledge base.
Not just peers - that is actually one of the things that is WRONG with publik edjukashun.
From an early age, our daughters were comfortable with all age groups, from kids younger than them to senior adults.
Publik skool kidz seem to think that the whole world revolves around and is just like their own age group, which is a shock when you get out into the real world.
-
I have really mixed feelings about homeschooling. I've seen it done very well, and those who come from it be very well educated and capable of pursuing higher education at the college level, or capable of doing well in the work-force. On the other hand, I've seen those who use homeschooling as an excuse to keep out of the system, and the only education done is how to keep out of the system. The products of this type of home-schooling come through my courtroom all the time. The new homeschooling, with on-line components, seems to be middle of the road. Some do well, others do nothing. I've always believed that those who do very well in homeschooling would have done well in any school situation.
One key aspect that I have noticed is that the parents who homeschool and produce good results make sure that their children are involved in many peer activities, so that their social and interpersonal skills are as well developed as their knowledge base. Those who use homeschooling as a means of hiding out produce kids that cannot carry on a conversation.
I'd argue that kids/parents that fail at homeschooling would also fail in public education.
-
I know it's not P.C. of me, but it smells a lot like discrimination based on country of origin...
Eff PC and all of those who enforce it.
There are many reasons why the establishment doesn't want Anglo-Saxon self-determined immigrants.
-
We are all owned by the state, adults and children alike.
Now get busy consuming and working.
-
Not just peers - that is actually one of the things that is WRONG with publik edjukashun.
From an early age, our daughters were comfortable with all age groups, from kids younger than them to senior adults.
Publik skool kidz seem to think that the whole world revolves around and is just like their own age group, which is a shock when you get out into the real world.
Indeed. That is the major reason we send our kids to pay-out-of-my-post-tax-wages private school. So I can control who they hang out with for 7.5+ hours/day. Every day my personal influence over them and their actions diminishes, while that of their peers increases.
Then there is the public education doctrine of "teach to the middle." When half the students are illegals or anchor babies with crappy English and zero intellectual curiosity as a culture, they drag the "middle" down.
We have considered homeschooling, because it would mean only an extra hour or two with the kids per day above what we already spend with them on homework. (Even many private schools have quaffed the "homework is a must" kool-aid, sadly.) Even low class-size private schools are not as efficient as home schooling, time-wise.
-
One key aspect that I have noticed is that the parents who homeschool and produce good results make sure that their children are involved in many peer activities, so that their social and interpersonal skills are as well developed as their knowledge base. Those who use homeschooling as a means of hiding out produce kids that cannot carry on a conversation.
The company, for whom I do contract work, markets textbooks to the homeschool community. One thing I noticed is that a lot of those peer activities and social stuff tend to be "with their own kind". While it has plenty of benefits, it can create very insulated folks with a very stovepiped knowledge and experience base. A lot of them can have issues with interfacing with folks outside their narrow community.
-
The company, for whom I do contract work, markets textbooks to the homeschool community. One thing I noticed is that a lot of those peer activities and social stuff tend to be "with their own kind". While it has plenty of benefits, it can create very insulated folks with a very stovepiped knowledge and experience base. A lot of them can have issues with interfacing with folks outside their narrow community.
I've noted the same with a lot of public school kids, honestly.
-
The company, for whom I do contract work, markets textbooks to the homeschool community. One thing I noticed is that a lot of those peer activities and social stuff tend to be "with their own kind". While it has plenty of benefits, it can create very insulated folks with a very stovepiped knowledge and experience base. A lot of them can have issues with interfacing with folks outside their narrow community.
Yeah, the home school kids really need to get out and hang out with the drug dealers more often =D
-
The couple I can think of who are good examples of how homeschooling can work well are members of my son's Scout troop. Another plays soccer with my son. These kinds of activities are what I'm thinking of, getting the kids involved with other kids outside of the homeschool community. No, Tallpine, I don't mean the local dealers. They have to come spend time with me. =D
-
getting the kids involved with other kids outside of the homeschool community
You have to understand that many parents don't want their kids getting involved with those kids.
-
On the other hand, I've seen those who use homeschooling as an excuse to keep out of the system, and the only education done is how to keep out of the system. The products of this type of home-schooling come through my courtroom all the time.
How many people who come through your courtroom are products of the state education system? I'd guess probably the majority, so it's not exactly a panacea for unsocial behavior. The people who abuse homeschooling and end up coming through your courtroom would likely be coming through your courtroom anyway if they were in public schools.
No system is perfect, and demanding perfection from an alternate system while ignoring glaring, systematic structural flaws in the current one is illogical.
-
Detroit would be a wonderful metropolis if it wasn't for all those damn homeschooling single moms there...
-
The company, for whom I do contract work, markets textbooks to the homeschool community. One thing I noticed is that a lot of those peer activities and social stuff tend to be "with their own kind". While it has plenty of benefits, it can create very insulated folks with a very stovepiped knowledge and experience base. A lot of them can have issues with interfacing with folks outside their narrow community.
I don't doubt that's true. But I would also take a wild guess, and say that some kids probably do better with that kind of upbringing, than being "mainstreamed." Other kids would be better off experiencing different kinds of people.
It reminds me of the viewpoint I hear from a lot of Christians, that Christian kids need to be out fighting the good fight in the public schools, witnessing, evangelizing, apologizing,* etc. "We can't retreat from the battlefield!!" When I hear that, I want to remind such people that kids are kids, not warriors. Some kids thrive on mixing it up with different kinds of people, but I think some kids would be better served by getting a solid foundation from "their own kind." (None of which is to say that kids should be totally isolated in some kind of homogenous community, with no exposure to other types of people.)
Just my 2 pence.
*As in "apologetics," not saying they're sorry.
-
I guess I should specify that the examples I'm thinking of are kids I have contact with outside of work. Inside the courthouse is a whole other world, and I would no sooner attribute anti-social/criminal behavior to the education method chosen than I would blame violent crime on firearm ownership.
-
Don't confuse home-schooling with no-schooling.
-
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Parenting/unschooling-homeschooling-book-tests-classes/story?id=10410867
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/01/27/gutierrez.unschooing/
-
I have very serious doubts about the long term effects of the whole "un-schooling" method. It's hippie bs and it's going to royally screw over the kids it's inflicted on. That said, it's not abusive just stupid so parents should be free to do it as they want.
-
I wasn't familiar with un-schooling. I am at a loss for words after reading that.
-
>It reminds me of the viewpoint I hear from a lot of Christians, that Christian kids need to be out fighting the good fight in the public schools, witnessing, evangelizing, apologizing,* etc.<
It is, by NO means, just Christian parents that come up with that idiocy.
I've hammered on more than one pagan family for trying to "fight for social justice" via their children. Very similar to the story of the 6 year old "transgendered" kid...
-
>It reminds me of the viewpoint I hear from a lot of Christians, that Christian kids need to be out fighting the good fight in the public schools, witnessing, evangelizing, apologizing,* etc.<
It is, by NO means, just Christian parents that come up with that idiocy.
I've hammered on more than one pagan family for trying to "fight for social justice" via their children. Very similar to the story of the 6 year old "transgendered" kid...
You do the very damn best you can by your kids. You don't use them as a tool to fight your own political battles or as a means to fulfill dreams you could not make reality for your own self.
For my part, I am not sending the kids to private school to stick it to "the other side," but because I think that is where they will get the best education (broadly defined) with the least amount of trauma.
-
You do the very damn best you can by your kids. You don't use them as a tool to fight your own political battles or as a means to fulfill dreams you could not make reality for your own self.
Yeah, nothing gets me pissed off faster than seeing idiots take their kids to a political demonstration, give them a picket sign with some cute little saying, and have them march along with them.