Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Fitz on April 29, 2013, 05:42:22 PM
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Right at one month
I expected more ...
Anyways. Here it goes again!
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You got your FFL?
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I think he means he became a cruffler (C&R FFL)
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Yep, for the second time
I miss mosin prices circa 2003
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I'm on my 2nd renewal as well (good till 2015). I've only purchased a couple guns via my C&R (both S&W revolvers), but have used the heck out of it to get discounts at Midway and Brownells. That said, I'm not sure I'll renew. I haven't purchased much from either site in a while and the "discounts" are laughable at times. I'm not sure I'll offset the license fee next time around.
Chris
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I let mine lapse. Was totally worth it when Nagant revolvers were a dime a dozen and rifles were 50 bucks
We shall see
Soon, some very interesting stuff will be old enough to be c&r
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I let mine lapse. Was totally worth it when Nagant revolvers were a dime a dozen and rifles were 50 bucks
We shall see
Soon, some very interesting stuff will be old enough to be c&r
Just means our betters will soon be legislating changes to C&R rules.
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I let mine lapse. Was totally worth it when Nagant revolvers were a dime a dozen and rifles were 50 bucks
We shall see
Soon, some very interesting stuff will be old enough to be c&r
There's some good stuff on C&R now (S&W revolvers, some Ruger revolvers, 1911s, Browning HighPowers, etc).
Just means our betters will soon be legislating changes to C&R rules.
They haven't changed it yet. There are some pretty modern guns on the list already. Can't get a Glock or a Sig, but there are plenty other good guns.
50 years ago is 1963. There are a lot of guns made in the late 50s to early 60s that are almost identical to what is made today.
Chris
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I've bought a few guns with mine, but really not that many. Nagant revolver, CZ-82, stuff like that. Biggest benefit is the discount at grafs.com. I really wish they would relax the postal code just a little to allow licensed collectors to mail C&R eligible guns.
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I'm batting .000 on getting folks to send me stuff that's verifiably over 50 years old on my C&R, if it's in any way shape or form, "not C&R stuff" in their minds. And when mine expired, there was nothing left but the Mosin's, I didn't need five more, so I let it run out.
Seems to me that if it isn't WWI/WWII surplus, or something the big mail/internet order places are all selling as C&R, non-licensees and many/most 01's just... won't... do... it...
Might be useful to give folks the warm fuzzies if you come across something cool at a yard or estate sale, to have some sort of "official license", but that's a total shot in the dark.
I'm now more about trying to collect whatever neat stuff is the next "HS2000", i.e. the XD, before it was the XD, and SA put their stamp on it, and raised the price by $2-300. Or stuff like my measly $299 Draco AK pistol, which is now $800 unobtanium. Or things like the Wiselite semi-auto Sterling re-weld, that I knew would dry up once the Sterling parts kits were exhausted.
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Right at one month
Nice.
Now I'm thinking that I should apply again if the wait is that short. Let mine lapse in 2006 or so.
I still want a PU sniper or two.
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My last mosin Was a fantastic shooter, and I regret selling it
Any tips on finding really great shooter? Should I just plunk down the cash for a sniper?
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50 years ago is 1963. There are a lot of guns made in the late 50s to early 60s that are almost identical to what is made today.
Chris
Yup...like colt AR-15 (started sales in 1963 IIRC :)
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good luck finding one from pre1970. there just weren't that many made compared to today.
what is the cost for a c&r license, and how long is it good for?
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IIRC, it's about $35 and is good for 3 years.
Chris
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From what I gather , buying a crate of mosins, keeping the good ones, and selling the rest is legit
Thoughts?
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That might be a bit obvious, but buying 2-3 and only keeping one is legit as you're "enhancing your collection", the whole purpose of the Type 03 FFL.
Chris
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From what I gather , buying a crate of mosins, keeping the good ones, and selling the rest is legit
Technically, it's legit. Maintaining Cruffler appearances, however...
When it finally arrives, your C&R paperwork will warn you that your FFL is expressly not "to engage in the business".
IOW, you buy and sell for the sake of your collection based on the historical significance of the pieces.
To date they've never put a specific limit on the number of toys you can move into and out of your collection, nor on the dollar figures from the sales thereof.
They're warning you not to move guns for profit, or becoming a de-facto retail distributor on a collector's Type 03 FFL.
Likewise, I actually got into a bit of trouble trying to buy a stripped 98 Mauser receiver (Gewehr98) under a C&R FFL. If you read the rules very carefully, the receivers themselves are not considered the historical item. :O
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I ask because a few places are selling them by the crate. I figure if I'm selling the ones I don't want at precisely my cost, I should be good. Buying a crate seems to me to be the best possible method of getting a real nice one
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Understood, but they ALL go into your bound book, even if you don't plan on keeping them.
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I ask because a few places are selling them by the crate. I figure if I'm selling the ones I don't want at precisely my cost, I should be good. Buying a crate seems to me to be the best possible method of getting a real nice one
\
I always wanted to buy one of those crates and put a glass top on it for a coffee table in the man room.
I seriously considered it when they were selling Yugo SKSs by the crate, but I bought a M41B instead.
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Any tips on finding really great shooter? Should I just plunk down the cash for a sniper?
All of the 91/30s that I have shoot respectably well with surplus ammo- can't complain. My eyes aren't good enough anymore to bother with trying handloads to get more accuracy oput of them.
I have a M-38 that is a poor shooter, and a Romanian M44 that are just plain shot out.
Speaking of which, I looked at a Chinese Type-53 Mosin recently at a local shop. The outside looks horrible- rusted metal and a stock that looks darn near dry-rotted. The bore was shinier and brighter than I've ever seen on a used Mosin however.
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Where can you find crates of them for sale?
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http://www.classicfirearms.com/mosin-nagant-rfile-by-the-crate
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Understood, but they ALL go into your bound book, even if you don't plan on keeping them.
Yeah, i knew that much.
I might do it
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http://www.classicfirearms.com/mosin-nagant-rfile-by-the-crate
Sweet Jesus! [drool]
Why is there not a drool smiley? :'(
Looking around online it looks like less than a month ago they were about $1,000 less. :'(
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Well...
I'm going next week to pick up a crate.
:-)
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I think AIM has them too, but for pick up only.
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http://www.classicfirearms.com/mosin-nagant-rfile-by-the-crate
Well, perusing that site was a pleasant surprise. Those C&Rs that they list that I also already own have tripled, or more, in price. That's better than a lot of my fund investments over the same time period.
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Those C&Rs that they list that I also already own have tripled, or more, in price.
The ones that surprise me in the other direction are the Swiss 1911, K-11, and 96/11 rifles which really haven't changed in price over the last 10 years. A lot less common than the K-31s and a lot better made as well, and thats saying a lot.
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The ones that surprise me in the other direction are the Swiss 1911, K-11, and 96/11 rifles which really haven't changed in price over the last 10 years. A lot less common than the K-31s and a lot better made as well, and thats saying a lot.
Yeah, when I was on my K-31 kick, I remember hearing really good things about the 11s, but couldn't justify the price as a "C&R deal" when I was able to pick up the K-31s for I think $79.99.
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The ones that surprise me in the other direction are the Swiss 1911, K-11, and 96/11 rifles which really haven't changed in price over the last 10 years. A lot less common than the K-31s and a lot better made as well, and thats saying a lot.
I think a lot of it has to do with the ammo the milsurp uses. If it's a common caliber to America, they'll sell fast, then go up in price faster once the supply dries up.
.308, .30-06, 7.62x54R because it comes in cheap spam cans... etc.
7.5 French, 7.5 Swiss, the Carcano or Mannlicher calibers... when it's a bit more off the beaten path for America, prices stay flatter it seems.
Of course, that's a generalization, there's always exceptions. But with the Swiss ones you mention, if people are going to get into an odd caliber sometimes the cheapest example of that rifle satisfies the desire to have something of that general design from that country, since they don't know how much use it'll ever get. That at least was my thinking on my K31 and why I never bothered with a 1911 etc.
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I think a lot of it has to do with the ammo the milsurp uses. If it's a common caliber to America, they'll sell fast, then go up in price faster once the supply dries up.
.308, .30-06, 7.62x54R because it comes in cheap spam cans... etc.
7.5 French, 7.5 Swiss, the Carcano or Mannlicher calibers... when it's a bit more off the beaten path for America, prices stay flatter it seems.
Of course, that's a generalization, there's always exceptions. But with the Swiss ones you mention, if people are going to get into an odd caliber sometimes the cheapest example of that rifle satisfies the desire to have something of that general design from that country, since they don't know how much use it'll ever get. That at least was my thinking on my K31 and why I never bothered with a 1911 etc.
Quite good analysis.
I skipped the M95 mannlichers because there was no ammo available for them. Later, ammo became very cheap and very plentiful, but the rifles were gone. I caught the next cycle and bought a M95 carbine when they became available again, but the ammo never re-materialized.
I can see why the M95s don't have much value- pretty expensive to shoot with odd brass and odd bullet diameter (.329").
I'd love to see $5 70-rd bandoliers of 8mm mauser ammo again, but I know its very unlikely to happen.
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C&R prices will vary based on both ammo and commonality of a given firearm.
The Czech VZ-52 SHE rifles were dirt cheap when cases of steel-cased 7.62x45 were being imported alongside the guns.
Then both the ammo and guns thinned out as the importers sold everything they had.
Now, the ammo is rare as hen's teeth, and I've got a side business going making reloadable 7.62x45 brass on my mini-lathe.
It's basically cyclical in nature, as the import scouts find caches and then sell out.
In the early 2000s, genuine, non-Fibbs No5Mk1 Lee-Enfield Jungle Carbines were commanding a decent price, because it had appeared they were all in private hands, with no more coming in surplus.
Then the import scouts found a cache in Malaysa, left over from WWII British operations in Burma. All of a sudden, you could get a nice Jungle Carbine, albeit with some additional varnish on the wood, for less than $300!
That deflated the prices of all Jungle Carbines for a while, until the Malaysian cache also dried up.
Surplus 174gr Greek .303 ammo was also flooding in, and eventually sold out.
And so it goes.
After the fall of the Iron Curtain, a bunch of Soviet-held Mausers, Walthers, and Lugers started coming in.
These were guns that were captured in the disastrous German winter offensive of Stalingrad, when Hitler left Paulus' 6th Army to wither on the vine.
The Soviets collected the K98k Mausers, P-38 Walthers, and P-08 Lugers and sent them back for refurbishment in the event they needed them for another German offensive.
The Lugers even saw VOPO usage in East Germany for years afterwards. (Mine is so marked)
These imports brought prices down again, but not so much on collected firearms because of the obvious Soviet refurb/refinish.
You could get a shootable 1918 DWM Luger for cheap, but it would be re-blued, have Cyrillic numbers stamped in the frontstrap, and wear black ribbed plastic grips.
The K98k Mausers were similarly refinished, with really nice laminated stocks, matte bluing, but missing the guard screws for the actions. (Easily lost or dropped by cold Soviet hands?)
That cache sold out fairly quickly, too.
The K-31 Schmidt-Rubins were actually quite surprising, because they came in over a longer period of time.
I never bought one, because I have a gorgeous full-length 1911 rifle stocked in what looks like French Walnut. The later K-31s just never appealed to me aesthetically.
The surplus ammo and those cardboard/metal chargers flowed freely for quite some time. Again, I didn't partake because I had a stash of Norma 7.5x55 ammo and brass, plenty for my own rifle.
Then there was the Swedish Mauser invasion. Again, prices low as they were coming in, then they dry up and prices climb.
Blue Sky Garands?
Russian and Bulgarian Makarovs?
Czech CZ-52s?
Nepalese Martinis?
Austrian Straight-Pull Mannlichers?
Argentinian Ballester-Molinas?
They all show up in waves, then dry up. Prices vary accordingly.
I don't really expect Mosin Nagants to dry up for a while, though.
They made so damned many Noisy Magnets that they're probably being used for tomato stakes over there still. (Another gun I never took a liking to, but we all have our tastes...)
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The K98k Mausers were similarly refinished, with really nice laminated stocks, matte bluing, but missing the guard screws for the actions. (Easily lost or dropped by cold Soviet hands?)
My understanding is that the guard screws and front sight hoods were seen as unnecessary and were melted down as scrap.
Seems it would take a lot of K98s to fill even a 5 gallon bucket of guard screws though.
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Conscript labor is cheap.