Post by: Perd Hapley on August 10, 2006, 01:03:42 PM
Should I tell the boss man I'm looking around, or just let him know when I have a job lined up?
I might look for employment with other businesses we've been working with at my current job. Any ethical issues to look out for?
Thanks.
Post by: AJ Dual on August 10, 2006, 01:05:34 PM
The standard business obligation is to give your employer a two week notice AFTER you've lined up another job.
Unless you've got a very special relationship with your employer, doing otherwise is foolish.
Post by: roo_ster on August 10, 2006, 01:21:27 PM
DO NOT, however much your employer likes you, hint that you are looking for work.
For instance, my wife gave the usual two weeks notice. The employer begged her to stay on 4 weeks. She said, "OK," since she didn't want to leave them in a bind. *One* week later, they had lined up her replacement & gave her the boot saying, "We don't want disloyal people working for us."
Post by: Perd Hapley on August 10, 2006, 01:56:42 PM
Post by: Monkeyleg on August 10, 2006, 02:01:06 PM
However, other than me, I've never heard of an employer giving more than a few days or weeks notice.
Post by: Mannlicher on August 10, 2006, 02:22:57 PM
Post by: BozemanMT on August 10, 2006, 03:49:37 PM
Quote from: AJ Dual
Only if you or they, have signed a no-compete clause regarding employment.
The standard business obligation is to give your employer a two week notice AFTER you've lined up another job.
Unless you've got a very special relationship with your employer, doing otherwise is foolish.
+1The standard business obligation is to give your employer a two week notice AFTER you've lined up another job.
Unless you've got a very special relationship with your employer, doing otherwise is foolish.
exactly like this
and don't stay for any extra of the two weeks
and if you have vacation days left, use them for part of the two weeks.
Go out on a good note, but go.
and don't tell ANYONE at work you are looking
do not do interviews at work (unless you truly don't care, and I've been there), do not use your employers time for any of that.
Post by: Standing Wolf on August 10, 2006, 04:55:48 PM
Another good way to get a raise is to let it be known you're looking for work elsewhere, depending...
Post by: Perd Hapley on August 10, 2006, 05:02:22 PM
Quote from: Monkeyleg
If your employer has a policy of giving employees very, very extended notices that they're going to lose their jobs, then I would say that you have an ethical problem.
Maybe you misunderstood something. I don't think we're talking about that.
Post by: Perd Hapley on August 10, 2006, 05:07:27 PM
Mannlicher,
When leaving previous jobs, it was always, "Boss, I'm going to school/Army so I've got to go," or "I'm quitting school for a while, so I need full-time." That's a little bit different from "I'm leaving because I hate this job, and it causes me to literally hate everyone connected with it and edited to avoid embarrasment, so I'm gonna leave before I get fired for edited further to remove incriminating statements." I really hate this job.
Post by: Monkeyleg on August 10, 2006, 06:15:36 PM
Good luck to you.
Post by: Sylvilagus Aquaticus on August 10, 2006, 06:44:41 PM
Last week I asked my team lead if they were going to bring any of the contractors on board as perm (meaning myself). He answered in the negative. As of the 18th I will have been there a year. They'd been talking about making several of us 'official' since December.
We'll see tomorrow if they walk me to the door or if they 'permit' me to honor my obligation to my coworkers and work to cover their vacations, as I have willingly agreed to do. I'm pulling weekend duty until the end of the month.
Exchanging time and knowledge for money, baby. If they'd play ball, I'd stay. If they'd listen to a reauest for a raise, I'd stay. Wouldn't have to match my other offer, even. Lat time I was a contractor there my group saw an 18% pay cut over 3 years.
Two weeks is honorable.
Regards,
Rabbit.
Post by: wingnutx on August 10, 2006, 10:16:04 PM
Post by: BozemanMT on August 11, 2006, 01:17:36 AM
Quote from: fistful
That's a little bit different from "I'm leaving because I hate this job, and it causes me to literally hate everyone connected with it and edited to avoid embarrasment, so I'm gonna leave before I get fired for edited further to remove incriminating statements." I really hate this job.
We must work for the same placeI've been up since 2am I'm so mad
I'm going to go in, call a couple people way high up and say "pay attention to what the freaking data is telling you" and then we'll see what happens.
I'm so sick of it I can't stand it.
We do the same thing over and over again and wonder why it doesn't work.
and they only people they listen to are the people who are fouling it up and the data is completely ignored.
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Post by: TarpleyG on August 11, 2006, 04:11:15 AM
Quote
Should I tell the boss man I'm looking around, or just let him know when I have a job lined up?
I had sold my house in FL and bought another one in NC all while I was looking for a job and still working in FL. My wife was at the end of her school year (she's a teacher) and she was coming up without me. I told my boss what I was doing and left that Friday. He agreed to give me a few weeks more and I could "work remotely" until I found this gig.I wouldn't tell them anything until I had a new job lined up.
Greg
Post by: Dannyboy on August 11, 2006, 05:30:47 AM
Quote from: fistful
When leaving previous jobs, it was always, "Boss, I'm going to school/Army so I've got to go," or "I'm quitting school for a while, so I need full-time." That's a little bit different from "I'm leaving because I hate this job, and it causes me to literally hate everyone connected with it and edited to avoid embarrasment, so I'm gonna leave before I get fired for edited further to remove incriminating statements." I really hate this job.
Man, I am so glad to hear that I am not the only one that is utterly miserable at his current job. I graduated in May and I'm still looking for a real job. It's getting to the disheartening stage now. I hate my job so much that I'm considering going to work for my buddy in Iraq doing radio work.
Post by: Newt on August 11, 2006, 05:54:07 AM
Another good way to get a raise is to let it be known you're looking for work elsewhere, depending..." --Standing Wolf
+1 on that, but beware. I've heard of people being "dismissed" (for one reason or another) because the wrong person found out they were looking. I had another job offer and had carefully weighed it out. I really liked my current job, and did not want to leave, but I felt that the opportunity was a good one. I turned in my notice and within the day, I had a counter offer of more than my new job offer was. It worked out great for me, BUT I turned in my notice full well expecting the hardy handshake and a "Good luck." from current employer. I never expected a counter.
Also, I'm going to have to go with everyone else here and say that you should never tell anyone you're looking until you've got an offer on the tabe you're willing to accept. Good luck!
Post by: 41 Redhawk on August 11, 2006, 06:19:53 AM
Post by: lupinus on August 11, 2006, 06:23:51 AM
Then once a job is lined up tell your old employer you are going to be leaving and when they ask when say two weeks if you need me that long but a week would be better. If it is borderline offer to stay on full time for a week and then a few days on the second week. Then the ball is in their court you are out of there faster if they can do without you but you are leaving the option open for the full two weeks if need be. Once you have something agreed with the current employer let the new job know ASAP.
I haven't switched jobs often but the times that I have (and conversations with friends in management positions) this seems to be a pretty good option that works well.
Post by: Perd Hapley on August 11, 2006, 06:45:07 AM
I came into this job with no maintenance experience, and wasn't told I'd be working by myself. It's a wonder I didn't flood a whole floor or electrocute myself. What did happen is that half-hour jobs took me two hours to figure out and what should have been easy fixes sometimes took a month to resolve.
Post by: Hawkmoon on August 11, 2006, 01:10:46 PM
Quote from: fistful
When leaving previous jobs, it was always, "Boss, I'm going to school/Army so I've got to go," or "I'm quitting school for a while, so I need full-time." That's a little bit different from "I'm leaving because I hate this job, and it causes me to literally hate everyone connected with it and edited to avoid embarrasment, so I'm gonna leave before I get fired for edited further to remove incriminating statements." I really hate this job.
Do not burn any bridges.You have no moral or ethical mandate to notify your current employer that you are looking, and it would be foolish to do so. If they know you're looking ... they'll be looking. If they find your replacement before you find the "right" new situation, you will suddenly find that you have a lot more time in which to seek alternate employment.
On the other hand, once you find and accept an offer of alternate employment, simply turn in a bland letter of resignation giving the standard two week's notice. Do not get into specificity about why you are leaving or (especially!) how much you hate the job or the company. Remember that the current job will be on your resume for many years, and if in the future a prospective employer decides to call this company, you want them to speak positively or at least neutrally about you. You do NOT want them to think so badly of you that they'll torpedo any future jobs you may seek by trashing you when contacted.
Post by: Perd Hapley on August 11, 2006, 02:01:36 PM
Quote from: Hawkmoon
Do not burn any bridges.
Do not get into specificity about why you are leaving or (especially!) how much you hate the job or the company.
Well, yeah. You didn't think I was going to say that to my employer, did you?
Do not get into specificity about why you are leaving or (especially!) how much you hate the job or the company.
Post by: Declaration Day on August 11, 2006, 04:00:18 PM
Don't feel bad about leaving your current job, no matter what your reason for leaving is. You owe your company nothing, as you have already earned them much more money than they've paid you.
Post by: Perd Hapley on August 11, 2006, 04:08:44 PM
Post by: Declaration Day on August 11, 2006, 04:24:01 PM
You must have misunderstood me, as people don't normally snap at me when I take their side.
Post by: Perd Hapley on August 11, 2006, 04:45:45 PM
I do not think of employers as being on the "other side." And I don't know what "side" of what controversy you think I'm on. You must have misunderstood if you think I am feeling guilty about leaving my employer. I am not the one who has made this job unbearable or almost undoable. Sorry to invent a word there.
Thanks for trying to sympathize though.
Post by: Felonious Monk/Fignozzle on August 11, 2006, 04:51:06 PM
Post by: Robert Sears on August 11, 2006, 07:23:04 PM
Bob
Post by: Guest on August 11, 2006, 07:45:24 PM
Post by: brimic on August 11, 2006, 11:23:29 PM
Post by: 280plus on August 12, 2006, 12:16:07 AM
TCI had been sold to and run into the ground by some corporation in Gulfport, Miss. They took over just prior to my being employed there. The original owner "Baran's" still owned the bldgs. Well, 14 months later,when the lease was up, the Miss. corp, having been blowing smoke and flower petals up our asses for months, ABANDONED the friggin' operation, lock stock and barrel. One Friday morning we get a message to send all our students home and meet in the cafeteria at 11:00. All 300 of us got pink slips, security guards manned the doors and we had so many minutes to clean up our stuff and get out. Those of us who were on "The List" were "allowed" to reapply for our jobs but starting all over as new employees. No benefits, no sick days, no medical insurance, etc. I was on "The List" so I foolishly applied for my job back, giving these people the benefit of the doubt. There was an article in the business section of the Hartford Courant talking all about it featuring the new boss Linda Perkins making the statement that they had made the transition and kept over 50% of the original employees. Within 6 weeks over 80% were gone. I was let go, even though I had the second highest student rating of my dept, when 6 weeks into the thing, I complained about not being paid for the day I took off to go to my stepmother's funeral. No effin' lie. I also made the mistake of asking about the medical benefits they had promised us within 30 days. She told me she had more important things to worry about than my mother's funeral. I know, I shoulda punched her right then but I guess I'm smarter than that. Anyhoo, I wasn't a "team player" immediately after that, I had a "negative attitude". Gee, ya think? Can't imagine why...
The entire student body walked out in a rage the day after they let me go. They had to call the cops to regain order.
They friggin' called me on the phone at home and asked me what I wanted them to do. I told them to just go back to class, it wasn't worth it. I would definitely have something lined up before I ever indicated to my current employer that I was even THINKING of leaving. Offer them two weeks but be prepared to be unemployed shortly after making the offer. Each situation is different of course. They could offer you more money to stay. That's been known to happen. If they DO keep you the 2 weeks, be a model employee and leave on gracious terms.
Post by: wingnutx on August 12, 2006, 03:47:30 AM
Post by: 280plus on August 12, 2006, 04:35:57 AM
Post by: Tallpine on August 12, 2006, 12:59:08 PM
Next day (my day off) the new company called and asked me to fly down there at their expense the following week. I walked in at 8am the next morning and quit as of that instant (2 seconds notice).
Never went back in there again, even as a customer. The store went bankrupt a couple years later. It is still sitting there locked up with all the merchandise.
Post by: Perd Hapley on August 12, 2006, 04:59:32 PM
Let me apologize for being snippy. I was wrong to answer you like I did. I guess we had a misunderstanding about what I was saying, or maybe you were not even responding to me. I can get cranky about very little things, sometimes, especially where this job is concerned. Again, I apologize.
Post by: Declaration Day on August 12, 2006, 05:20:34 PM
It is quite possible that I misunderstood you. I interpreted your initial post as "I feel bad for leaving this job because my reason seems petty." I thought that being an employer, and still siding with those who say you owe your employer nothing, might help to alleviate your concern. In no way was it intended as a lecture.
It takes a true gentleman to recognize his wrongdoings and retract them, no matter how small.
Best of luck in your search for a new job.
Bryan
Post by: Big_R on August 13, 2006, 04:08:30 PM
The question of informing your boss that you're looking is a matter of the relationship shared between you. It should only be done if you are certain that informing him would be a benefit to both of you (him for being able to start a search for your replacement as early as possible, and you for gaining a good reference).
If you're not absolutely certain of that relationship, tell him nothing and simply provide written notice once you have something else lined up.
Ryan
Post by: ilbob on August 13, 2006, 05:25:44 PM
You gain very little by telling your current employer anything about your job search, while there is substantial downside risk to doing so. Some managers are really big on loyalty (often one way) and will not appreciate the disloyal SOB who wants to leave.
I had a former boss refer to me that way after I transfered to another department because I was burning out on 80 and 90 hour weeks. He was not real thrilled that all but one of his engineers applied for 3 jobs in another department. The one who did not apply had only been in the department a few months and really did not have the skills for the jobs in the other department anyway. Tells you something.
I am a bit of a cynic anyway, but I think your primary duty is to yourself and your family. Your job is high on the list of importance, but if it is killing you, it is best to move on, but it is usually best to do so at a time of your chosing.
Be careful of the exit interview if there is one. Avoid telling them anything even remotely like the real reason you are leaving. They will never understand why you would want to leave their little slice of hell, so why try to explain it.
Before you announce you are leaving, try to get a copy of your personnel file, especially if there are written evaluations there. They may be useful down the road.
Ask what their policy is on references in case the new gig doesn't work out and you need to move on in a few years.
If it is a smallish company that may be in danger of disappearing, try to get a written reference if you can, as they may not be around to verify you worked there. It is not proof, because obviously something like that is easily faked, but it is better than nothing.
Keep your old business cards for the same reason. Get home phone numbers and addresses of co-workers and supervisors so you have someone that can verify your employment down the road if they are no longer around or just refuse to do so.
Try to burn as few bridges as you can when you leave. You may get a brief moment of joy out of giving you boss a rude gesture as you leave, but it is unprofessional, and you never know if it will come back at you some day. Instead of him remembering you as a valued employee who moved on, he might well remember you as a jerk that he was glad left before having to be fired.