Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Scout26 on August 23, 2013, 02:13:11 PM
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A not surprising decision. Now comes the Sentencing phase. Life or Death? What do you think and why.
http://www.armytimes.com/article/20130823/NEWS06/308230019/Hasan-found-guilty-Ft-Hood-rampage-eligible-death-penalty
I voted for Life w/o parole. No need to create a martyr. He'll go to the USDB and be forgotten. A fate worse than death.
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I don't believe in special sentences to differentiate one criminal from another.
If UCMJ allows for a death sentence for willful mass murder on a base by a treasonous turncoat, then Hassan fits that sentence. Normally not a big proponent of a death sentence, but if the sentence exists then it should be delivered.
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Life without parole. :-*
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If it was up to me, then both Major Hassan and Staff Sargeant Bales would stand side by side on a double gallows as the trap is dropped. I consider the Major to be a mass murderer and Sgt. Bales to be a war criminal.
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I feel like death would be his mission accomplished. That'd make us an accessory. [tinfoil]
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Life without parole. :-*
In general population
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Lifw without parole- in the rapiest prison they can find.
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His death would make his mission accomplished in his mind. But it is my belief that he will not find what he thinks in that instant between life and death. I think he finds nothing or he finds an angry God. I'm pretty sure there won't be virgins. So I don't mind at all giving him what he thinks he wants and letting him discover he made a big mistake - or not discover anything at all in eternal nothingness.
I'm not a big death penalty proponent either but this is a special circumstance as is any mass murder. The problem, I think and I'm no psychiatrist, with mass murderers, child pornographers, and religious or political terrorists is that their desire to do their evil is so deep in them that they just don't care; there's no conscious or empathy with their victims. Therefore, there's very little punishment in prison other than physical constraints.
What I like about life sentences is so convicts can live in their guilt and, at a bare minimum, the regret of having ruined their own life. With some types, like those listed above, that guilt never exists. They would spend their life in prison either daydreaming about what was or planning what will be again should they ever get released - sort of my obsessive daydreaming about winning millions in the lottery except that they actually commit their evil and I never remember to stop for a lottery ticket.
I'm not willing to pay for a life of pleasant day dreams of evil. Put evil to death. Save prison for those to whom it would be real self torture.
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Death.
No question he did it.
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http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/08/23/nidal-hasan-guilty-fort-hood-shooting-unanimous/2690899/
The U.S. military carried out its last execution on 1961, with the hanging of Army Pvt. John A. Bennett. He was convicted in 1955 of the rape and attempted murder of an 11-year-old Austrian girl.
That is what justice was and should be. And hanging is much better deterrent than drug induced sleep.
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It's not like anyone thought he wasn't guilty.
Take him out in the desert, dig a big hole, push him in and fill in the hole, no intermediate steps needed.
Biggest after the fact problem I have is the whole "workplace violence" bull *expletive deleted*it.
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Death.
There should be no bedwetting or hand wringing, no fanfare, no celebration. Just put him down in a businesslike manner the way you would put down a mad dog. Bury in an unmarked grave or dump the remains in the ocean.
That he seemingly was seeking death is irrelevant - our actions should not be guided by the wants of a murderous Moslem terrorist.
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I voted life w/o, but if we are going to kill him, lets do it the Black Jack Pershing method and send a message, "bad terrorist, no virgins for you!"
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Death. Now. Wall, rifle, bang, thump. I ain't payin' for any more of this.
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I voted other
If he goes on military death row, it'll be 20 years before he dies.
Give him life w/o parole (or with, won't matter... you'll see why in a min)
Then, deny him the protective custody that he will undoubtably seek.
There are some bad people in the USDB. There are also a whole lot of people who, as misguided as they are and as many mistakes as they made, love this country.
He wouldn't last a minute
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I voted life w/o, but if we are going to kill him, lets do it the Black Jack Pershing method and send a message, "bad terrorist, no virgins for you!"
Give him a sex change and then shoot him >:D =D
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I voted other
If he goes on military death row, it'll be 20 years before he dies.
Give him life w/o parole (or with, won't matter... you'll see why in a min)
Then, deny him the protective custody that he will undoubtably seek.
There are some bad people in the USDB. There are also a whole lot of people who, as misguided as they are and as many mistakes as they made, love this country.
He wouldn't last a minute
Sounds good on the surface but I have a problem with using the government to feed criminal activity. If he's killed in custody then we have to charge whoever killed him. We don't turn a blind eye to murder. Then there's that whole thing of the government violating the law by taking actions to execute someone (well-deserved) beyond what was sentenced.
Let's just stand up and do what's right. We don't have to cover it up, sneak around, trick someone else to do what the government should do on its own. A firing squad at sunrise on Monday morning is the right answer.
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I voted other
If he goes on military death row, it'll be 20 years before he dies.
Give him life w/o parole (or with, won't matter... you'll see why in a min)
Then, deny him the protective custody that he will undoubtably seek.
There are some bad people in the USDB. There are also a whole lot of people who, as misguided as they are and as many mistakes as they made, love this country.
He wouldn't last a minute
there are a lotta guys in there who would view hurting him as redemption. atonement
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Sounds good on the surface but I have a problem with using the government to feed criminal activity. If he's killed in custody then we have to charge whoever killed him. We don't turn a blind eye to murder. Then there's that whole thing of the government violating the law by taking actions to execute someone (well-deserved) beyond what was sentenced.
Let's just stand up and do what's right. We don't have to cover it up, sneak around, trick someone else to do what the government should do on its own. A firing squad at sunrise on Monday morning is the right answer.
But we know that wont happen. Hence my solution instead of letting him live and breathe for 20 more years
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Death by firing squad, followed by interment in a pig carcass. Or go all Bowman on him and feed him to pigs.
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But we know that wont happen. Hence my solution instead of letting him live and breathe for 20 more years
I get it that you want the guy appropriately killed and punished. That's the same logic that says ban guns because the government won't keep bad people in prison - it's all doing something wrong to make up for another thing they refuse to do right. Just because the government won't do the right thing we should go along with them violating the Constitution to get what we want?
We need to hold government accountable for doing the right thing, not excuse more wrongs to get around existing wrongs.
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I voted for Life w/o parole. No need to create a martyr. He'll go to the USDB and be forgotten. A fate worse than death.
Exactly. Hasan wants to be put to death, and has written that if he is executed he will still get to be a martyr. I don't think we should accommodate him in that. Far better to let him rot in prison, as a paraplegic, and contemplate his failure to achieve martyrdom every time he wants to stand up ... and can't.
Normally, I am not against the death penalty. In fact, I am never against the death penalty where it is appropriate. I don't get warm and fuzzy feelings knowing that my tax dollars are providing free room and board to house truly evil people. This case represents, to me, an extenuating circumstance. This piece of excrement views himself as an Islamic jihadist spiritual warrior. If being put to death would allow him or any other Muslim would-be jihadist to think of Hasan as a martyr ... then I don't want to make him a martyr. I'd rather see him be a symbol of abject failure than as a symbol of martyrdom.
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If you arent going to execute criminals like Boles and Hasan, then there really isnt any justification for having the death penalty.
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If you arent going to execute criminals like Boles and Hasan, then there really isnt any justification for having the death penalty.
Pretty much. I don't like the civilian death penalty, military is a bit different. Tired of news trials trying to turn these into civilian affairs too.
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I understand the argument for not giving Hassan the martyrdom he seeks. However, I think it more important that we demonstrate our system and values operate consistently, especially in the face of challenges from outside. If the judgment is for death, so be it.
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I think they should just release him. :angel:
You know, about 15,000 feet over the middle of the Atlantic >:D
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We don't have the balls as a society to execute him. Now that Boles got life with no parole, Hasan will get the same. It will not play well to execute a Muslim and give a honkey life with no parole. do I approve? No, but that is reality.
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single combat- bales vs hassan. or something. Seriously, both these criminals should have been courtmartialed asap then shot. Within one week.
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I think they should just release him. :angel:
You know, about 15,000 feet over the middle of the Atlantic >:D
Haven't people survived no-chute high sky-dives? A quick google yields:
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2011/07/19/im-dead-bye-skydiver-films-his-own-15000-ft-free-fall/
http://www.oddee.com/item_96967.aspx
.308 in between the eyes would be a sure kill. Get rid of him quietly and without fanfare and forget his name. I wouldn't want to have his name in history books or in rolls of martyrs in some mosque.
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single combat- bales vs hassan. or something. Seriously, both these criminals should have been courtmartialed asap then shot. Within one week.
The survivor gets to bunk with Chelsea Manning.
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Exactly. Hasan wants to be put to death, and has written that if he is executed he will still get to be a martyr. I don't think we should accommodate him in that. Far better to let him rot in prison, as a paraplegic, and contemplate his failure to achieve martyrdom every time he wants to stand up ... and can't.
Who cares if he thinks he will be martyred by a death sentence? Does it cost more to keep a paraplegic in prison or to execute him?
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The survivor gets to bunk with Chelsea Manning.
Our Constitution prohibits cruel or unusual punishments.
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I understand the argument for not giving Hassan the martyrdom he seeks. However, I think it more important that we demonstrate our system and values operate consistently, especially in the face of challenges from outside. If the judgment is for death, so be it.
And yet the morals/ethics/values that drive our system call out for not allowing him to get away with politicizing his criminal behavior.
In a kinder/gentler time, when dealing with folks who differed only in the scale of of their crimes, the choice facing those convicted who had served in the military of the defeated enemy was between being shot or being hanged. Hanging was selected precisely because it was not the option institutionalized (on both sides) for criminals who violated the military law. Lining war criminals up and executing them via a firing squad would be recognizing that they had acted as soldiers. Hanging them signaled that they were common criminals (as far as that meaning can be used to differentiate between soldiers who violated their military oath and the rules of war and whatever it is you call what they were).
Hasan has said that his crimes will not be completed until he achieves martyrdom. Also, others who believe in jihadism believe that after he is martyred he attains honor and should be held up as an example of faith and of behavior to be emulated.
From a political as well as a moral point of view I would rather see him incarcerated and cared for/protected from reprisal by misguided individuals. That protective custody will mean 23 1/2 hours a day by himself in a cell with access to books and tv somewhat restricted (nothing celebrating martyrdom - I understand the Koran is not the source of much of the "philosophy" behind driving folks to matryrdom) would give him plenty of time to contemplate his failure at the last moment. It also means he and his behavior will not be held up as something to be copied.
As for the economics of the matter - it is one time I am willing to let DHS claim terrorist attack attempts were defeated. Who knows, they might be right.
stay safe.
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As for the economics of the matter - it is one time I am willing to let DHS claim terrorist attack attempts were defeated. Who knows, they might be right.
stay safe.
Yes, but DHS had nothing to do with either preventing or stopping this instance of "work place violence."
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During WWII some German saboteurs were caught - it didn't take years to get to trial, and they certainly wouldn't have engaged in the buffoonery of delaying the trials over the "issue" of beards.
Justice moved more swiftly - and arguably, more surely - then.
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/german-saboteurs-executed-in-washington (http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/german-saboteurs-executed-in-washington)
Hassan's trial should have been concluded and sentence executed years ago.
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During WWII some German saboteurs were caught - it didn't take years to get to trial, and they certainly wouldn't have engaged in the buffoonery of delaying the trials over the "issue" of beards.
Justice moved more swiftly - and arguably, more surely - then.
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/german-saboteurs-executed-in-washington (http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/german-saboteurs-executed-in-washington)
Hassan's trial should have been concluded and sentence executed years ago.
Yes, but they weren't US Service Members subject to the UCMJ. And I totally agree, as he was under US Military Jurisdiction, shave the beard. Shave him every day and twice on Sundays. This trial should have been handled long ago. Is suspect some meddling, concern, worry, over what the CINC; would/could do unless all the I's crossed and the T's dotted, just in case they came back with Death.
If Obama does anything with reducing his sentence, waiving the death penalty, or pardoning him then Obama will have shown his true colors. And cost him the loyalty and respect of all service members.
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Yes, but they weren't US Service Members subject to the UCMJ. ....
They were members of the German military disguising themselves in civillian clothing and acting as spies. As such they were subject to both international law and the rules of warfare, both of which call for death by firing squad. It's always been suggested that not all of them were sentenced to death, and the ones so sentenced were electrocuted instead of being shot in an attempt to secure safer/better treatment of US servicemembers caught in civillian clothing while trying to evade capture or escaping following capture. That whole technicality of changing from a POW to a spy by changing clothing.
If Obama does anything with reducing his sentence, waiving the death penalty, or pardoning him then Obama will have shown his true colors. And cost him the loyalty and respect of all service members.
Sadly, I doubt if you are anywhere near accurately stating the situation as regards the response of members of the military. My doubt extends to the majority of the members of the military. Were I wrong there would have been written complaints about Hasan's earlier behavior and statements piling up on his immediate superior's desk and following the chain of command on up as well as crossing over to members of Congress. Complaints that could not have been ignored for fear of appearing politically incorrect or being a Muslim-hater.
stay safe.
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http://news.yahoo.com/soldier-sentenced-death-fort-hood-shooting-185728155.html
And Death it is. We'll see what Obama does, along with the Court of Military Appeals.
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http://news.yahoo.com/soldier-sentenced-death-fort-hood-shooting-185728155.html
And Death it is. We'll see what Obama does, along with the Court of Military Appeals.
Doesn't matter much. We haven't executed a prisoner there since 1961. One guy came close during bush's term but it got cancelled.
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The jury says "Execute him. "
http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/28/us/nidal-hasan-sentencing/index.html?hpt=hp_c2
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Boles v Hasan -- What's the diff!
Cue the grievance pimps.
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The jury says "Execute him. "
http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/28/us/nidal-hasan-sentencing/index.html?hpt=hp_c2
Too bad we can't do it 13 times >:D
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Doesn't matter much. We haven't executed a prisoner there since 1961. One guy came close during bush's term but it got cancelled.
Close, didn't get cancelled, just delayed due to further appeals.
The execution of Army Pvt. Ronald A. Gray, who has been on military death row since 1988, was approved by President George W. Bush on July 28, 2008. Gray was convicted of the rape, two murders and an attempted murder of three women, two of them Army soldiers and the third a civilian taxi driver whose body was found on the post at Fort Bragg. On 26 November 2008, a federal judge granted Gray a stay of execution to allow time for further appeals
-Wikipedia.
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The jury says "Execute him. "
http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/28/us/nidal-hasan-sentencing/index.html?hpt=hp_c2
Squeeee!
Too bad it won't be 'death by bunga-bunga,' after which his corpse be fed to pigs.
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While he wasn't military the Feds didn't waste a bunch of time before giving McVeigh the needle, I still wonder if "they" were afraid he might spill something embarrassing about the bombing and possible .gov involvement.
Too bad Hassan won't get the same expidited service.
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While he wasn't military the Feds didn't waste a bunch of time before giving McVeigh the needle, I still wonder if "they" were afraid he might spill something embarrassing about the bombing and possible .gov involvement.
Too bad Hassan won't get the same expidited service.
The Feds != the military.
Tons and tons and tons of procedure involved. Military justice system is vastly different than the federal prisons and courts
As for your comment about gov involvement, that's just silly
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As for your comment about gov involvement, that's just silly
Is it silly because federal LEOs are incorruptable and completely incapable of murdering children or running a false flag operation for a political end?
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Is it silly because federal LEOs are incorruptable and completely incapable of murdering children or running a false flag operation for a political end?
It's silly because people in the government can't even keep blowjobs secret, or other affairs, let alone a massive false flag operation
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Not keeping BJs secret is a false flag operation intended to convince you of the govt's incompetence at keeping secrets.
Oh *expletive deleted*it, did I just let that cat out of the bag? So much for keeping secrets...
Chris
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It's silly because people in the government can't even keep blowjobs secret, or other affairs, let alone a massive false flag operation
Well the stuff that does get out never sees a day in court anyway...federal law enforcement don't seem to be accountable to the same laws as the rest of us.
Sometimes all you need for a false flag to happen, is for the right people to simply let it happen.
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While he wasn't military the Feds didn't waste a bunch of time before giving McVeigh the needle, I still wonder if "they" were afraid he might spill something embarrassing about the bombing and possible .gov involvement.
Too bad Hassan won't get the same expidited service.
LOLWUT?
The bombing happened on April 19, 1995.
The indictment of McVeigh happened on August 10, 1995.
The sentencing happened in June of '97
And the execution happened on June 11, 2001 (I remember the bombing, the trial, and the execution)
ROFLMAO at "the Feds didn't waste a bunch of time before giving McVeigh the needle". Four years between sentencing and execution is just moving at light speed!
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LOLWUT?
ROFLMAO at "the Feds didn't waste a bunch of time before giving McVeigh the needle". Four years between sentencing and execution is just moving at light speed!
It is for death sentences. Usually that takes more than a decade. McVeigh got the needle so quick because he basically asked for it, IIRC.
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http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/08/30/fort-hood-killer-warned-before-shooting-possible-adverse-events/?test=latestnews
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And now his death sentence has been delayed. ;)
http://www.duffelblog.com/2013/09/nidal-hasans-death-sentence-delayed-due-supply-checkout/
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Ahh, soldierin' funnies.
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http://www.duffelblog.com/2013/08/admin-error-hasan-manning/
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http://www.duffelblog.com/2013/08/admin-error-hasan-manning/
That's not a bad idea, actually.
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Has anyone here ever read the Thomas Harris book or saw the movie HANNIBAL?....
....anyone remember how they were going to execute Lecter?.....
....that would be satisfactory....