Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: RoadKingLarry on August 24, 2013, 01:20:45 PM
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Jury duty.
Of course it starts the day before my long scheduled Dr. appointment with the specialist for my back problems.
:facepalm:
I'm one of those odd ducks that actualy thinks jury duty is is a valid responsibility of the citizenry. I'm thinking I need to reschedule the Dr. appointment. Of course I'm also one of those types that probably would be rejected for a jury.
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Congratulations! Even if you are cut eatly during voire dure be sure to hang around long enough to find out what they are serving jurors for lunch - you might get lucky and get pepper steak left over from the jail. Be sure to get your parking validated.
stay safe.
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Be sure to get your parking validated.
I'll probably park at the company office across the street from the county courthouse. My boss offices there so I might even be able to dog a lunch out of him.
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I also think it's a duty. Being self-employed (IOW, if I don't work I don't get paid), jury duty can be costly. When business is slow, though, it's not a problem.
Being white, male and middle-aged or older really reduced the odds of me being selected.
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Anyone got any good links for jury nullification t-shirts?
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A lot of jurisdictions are pretty reasonable about rescheduling. Depends on the population though. My employer has always been real good with handling jury duty.
I consider it a duty for the simple reason that if I am ever in the defendant's chair, I want good, reasonable people to show up for my trial, so I figure I ought to do the same.
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=(
I'm kinda sad that I still have never gotten called for jury duty. I want to be able to complain about doing my civic duty at great length to other people, too!
I feel so left out :'(
(just for the record, I'm not being a smart ass. I really do want to get jury duty at least once and I will complain about it, because that seems like what you are supposed to do. And I like complaining. :) )
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This is where I put them.
They are usually nice enough to send me another post card saying they will reschedule it for me.
That gets the same treatment also.
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR9geHEmrTEVhsg_nAod_TvV2IEFiutddb5iQ9X1leEXwAsZxNT)
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This is where I put them.
They are usually nice enough to send me another post card saying they will reschedule it for me.
That gets the same treatment also.
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR9geHEmrTEVhsg_nAod_TvV2IEFiutddb5iQ9X1leEXwAsZxNT)
Really?
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This is where I put them.
They are usually nice enough to send me another post card saying they will reschedule it for me.
That gets the same treatment also.
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR9geHEmrTEVhsg_nAod_TvV2IEFiutddb5iQ9X1leEXwAsZxNT)
If you ever come in front of a jury, I hope you remember that you and your plan are responsible for the jury pool being stacked in favor of slack-jawed Jerry Springer rejects and old folks with walkers and Alzheimers.
While I still rank voting as a civic duty, for all the good it seems to do, I rank jury duty even higher. The fact that defense attorneys deselected me because I was employed in the prison system and prosecutors deselected me because I listed my profession as social worker notwithstanding, each of the time I was called I made sure to show up all scrubbed and my hair (head, face, body) nicely combed. I understand the financial hardship jury duty can create for the self-employed, but still rant about how the result of a jury decision might have been better (define that as you will) if there were a better class of people sitting in the jury box.
Given how many cases go to deals instead of going to trial, those that do come up for assessment of the facts deserve the best jury possible.
stay safe.
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I got the call once so far. Don't mind it, agree it's a duty and my company paying me to not be there is a nice little bonus.
Actually got picked to sit on a jury, sadly the guy decided to change his plea the day the trial was set to start.
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If you ever come in front of a jury, I hope you remember that you and your plan are responsible for the jury pool being stacked in favor of slack-jawed Jerry Springer rejects and old folks with walkers and Alzheimers.
While I still rank voting as a civic duty, for all the good it seems to do, I rank jury duty even higher. The fact that defense attorneys deselected me because I was employed in the prison system and prosecutors deselected me because I listed my profession as social worker notwithstanding, each of the time I was called I made sure to show up all scrubbed and my hair (head, face, body) nicely combed. I understand the financial hardship jury duty can create for the self-employed, but still rant about how the result of a jury decision might have been better (define that as you will) if there were a better class of people sitting in the jury box.
Given how many cases go to deals instead of going to trial, those that do come up for assessment of the facts deserve the best jury possible.
stay safe.
I went once when i was 19is. It was the most wasteful process that wasted 4 days of my time that I did not get paid for.
If you need people call them in don't call them in to sit around for days and do nothing.
So it left an extreme bad taste in my mouth.
Yes that made me have no use for the current system. Maybe its different where you guys are but thats how it was for me.
The system is broke.
Let people volunteer for it.
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I've been called for jury duty around 6 or 7 times over the last 30 years, but only served twice - both times locally in my suburb when someone was fighting a traffic ticket. (I've also been tossed a couple of times because one side or the other didn't like my answers during voir dire.)
Even for such a minor offense, we jurors took it pretty seriously - which is what I hope happens if I ever have to appear in front of a jury. And that's the point - as much as a nuisance as it is, trial by jury is a foundation of our criminal justice system; to benefit from that, we ought to be willing to support it by serving as jurors once in a while.
Sure, the way its administered some places is pretty bad and I can see how it can be costly for a small businessman; fortunately my employer pays me for jury duty so it's not a financial hardship, so maybe that colors my opinion somewhat; jury duty shouldn't be a financial punishment for anyone.
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I went once when i was 19is. It was the most wasteful process that wasted 4 days of my time that I did not get paid for.
If you need people call them in don't call them in to sit around for days and do nothing.
So it left an extreme bad taste in my mouth.
Yes that made me have no use for the current system. Maybe its different where you guys are but thats how it was for me.
The system is broke.
Let people volunteer for it.
You got paid for it. Every day you're not in a prison camp, you're paid for the jury system. Every time you speak out against government and are not arrested, you are paid by the jury system. Poor you sat for 4 days and didn't get paid? That's just about the most offensive thing I have heard from someone on a liberty-oriented Internet forum.
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The last time I got a jury summons was for a state I didn't even live in anymore - and my family who got the summons couldn't be bothered to tell me until I got a second or third notice. :facepalm:
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I related my jury experience on here at that time.
http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=17405.0
http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=17698.0
I too see jury duty as just that "Duty". Yes, the process can be maddening, but the purpose is to somewhat randomize the pool of candidates then screen out those with obvious bias/knowledge/prejudices about the case/defendant. I know if I'm ever on trial, I want a bunch of smart people on there, not the audience from Maury Povich and Jerry Springer.
Was it pain, yes 2+ weeks on a murder trial having to look at the horrible autopsy pictures. (Which brought back some really back memories of an incident in Baumholder. But also help bring some closure to that as well.)
In the end I know we reached the correct verdict and justice was done.
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jury duty shouldn't be a financial punishment for anyone.
Financial punishment? yes, the cost of liberty is mighty high for some folks.
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This is where I put them.
They are usually nice enough to send me another post card saying they will reschedule it for me.
That gets the same treatment also.
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR9geHEmrTEVhsg_nAod_TvV2IEFiutddb5iQ9X1leEXwAsZxNT)
Here in Cali, you get a nice letter threatening an arrest warrant and a $2,000 fine if you do this more than a couple of times.
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Was summoned once and selected once. I believe it's a duty as well and didn't make any special effort to get out of it, even though it meant a week off work without pay - and as a single mom, that was hard. It was a pretty gruesome case. Guy was released from jail where he'd served 8 months for car-jacking. On his way home from jail, carjacked someone else (and beat the hell out of her in the process) then went and cruised his hood. At about that time, a 16 y.o. girl was walking home from her job waiting tables at Waffle House, around 6pm, but it was full dark out. He grabbed her, raped her, killed her, put her body in the trunk of the jacked car, and spent the next two days showing her body to his buddies - none of whom reported it. News of the missing person investigation reached him a few days later so he took her body to an abandoned building in the projects and stashed her in a closet. Then he and a buddy used a pipe and bleach to try to remove evidence of the rape. He left her in the building for a week or so, then put her back in the trunk of his car and moved her. I can't remember to where, but that's where they found her body.
The testimony was gruesome, the guy sat there and stared at us jurors all day every day, no one testified on his behalf, and after four days of the trial it took us almost a full day to convict (there was an elderly black man who said he was tired of seeing young black men go to jail every time a white person was killed - we eventually convinced him). When we were released, the DA was waiting to speak to us and thanked everyone individually. When he got to me, he said, "I'm sorry you had to sit through all of that, I know it was difficult to see and hear, but I had to have you on this jury. You're the spitting image of the victim and I wanted to rattle him."
It was a difficult week seeing the photos, hearing the MEs testimony, the cops who found her, his buddies describing what he did, him staring at us all week, but it needed to be done. And if I hadn't, and 10 others that were selected hadn't, there could have been more like the old guy and he might have gotten off. We each have a responsibility.
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Selected once so far, and the case I was up for - don't even know what it was - got settled the morning I was supposed to call in and verify whether I was to report in.
If I ever get selected for an actual criminal case, I'm pretty well convinced they'll send me home at voir dire.
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I am astonished that I have been voting for 35 years now, and got called for jury duty exactly once. The first case was a personal injury case, and as soon as the plaintiff counsel heard 'former lawyer' and 'malpractice defense', during voir dire, he put me off the jury. During the same session, I did get on a residential burglary case, but the judge declared a mistrial after two days upon hearing one of the jurors (not me) discussing the case at lunch at a local restaurant.
I have, however, spoken to hundreds of jurors after one of my malpractice cases went to trial, and the vast majority of them took jury duty very seriously and tried hard to come to an appropriate decision after careful consideration of the evidence and the jury instructions. I have no qualms with the jury system, with the codicil that I have no experience with the criminal side of things.
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Only called once for me, it was a no brainer to go, $30 a day, 2 mile commute vice 40, and the gubmint was still paying me to not be at work. Wore my uniform which was lulz, first I ruined the day of the E-8 court predator, put there to ensure sailors aren't sneaking to court dates without command chaperones. Then I got to see middle age professionals defer to me because they were scared to decided anything. So we'll let the 23 year old in an ice cream man suit be in charge. ;/ Ah, appeal to authority.
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I went once when i was 19is. It was the most wasteful process that wasted 4 days of my time that I did not get paid for.
If you need people call them in don't call them in to sit around for days and do nothing.
So it left an extreme bad taste in my mouth.
Yes that made me have no use for the current system. Maybe its different where you guys are but thats how it was for me.
The system is broke.
Let people volunteer for it.
Good thing we haven't needed the militia in quite some time. ;/
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RKL, you can ask to borrow Mike Irwin's Portable Lethal Injection Device and bring that with you for Voir dire. Always a big hit with the lawyers and judges. =D =D
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first I ruined the day of the E-8 court predator, put there to ensure sailors aren't sneaking to court dates without command chaperones.
How'd you ruin his day? He thought you were there to answer to charges and did something stupid?
I want to be called; haven't yet.
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Let people volunteer for it.
The cases that I would most like to volunteer for are exactly the cases from which I would be excused for cause. Using volunteers would invite those with a dog in the fight and those looking for a television substitute.
Without going into detail, the one time I was on a jury, we felt the defendant was probably guilty, but that it was not proven beyond a reasonable doubt — so he got off.
The following year, the same person murdered one of my son's classmates. For that he was convicted. My personal definition of "reasonable doubt" is now considerably different than it was.
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You got paid for it. Every day you're not in a prison camp, you're paid for the jury system. Every time you speak out against government and are not arrested, you are paid by the jury system. Poor you sat for 4 days and didn't get paid? That's just about the most offensive thing I have heard from someone on a liberty-oriented Internet forum.
Wow, Money aspect aside. I sat for 4 days and did nothing. That is my complaint with the system. Had I sat as a juror for 4 days that would have been a different story.
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Wow, Money aspect aside. I sat for 4 days and did nothing. That is my complaint with the system. Had I sat as a juror for 4 days that would have been a different story.
You did not do "Nothing" You were that are part of the pool of randomly selected people should there be a need.
Same as if the militia got called up and you had to pull guard duty 4 days in a row.
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You did not do "Nothing" You were that are part of the pool of randomly selected people should there be a need.
Same as if the militia got called up and you had to pull guard duty 4 days in a row.
No nothing nada. Sit in a room.
I don't even think there was an active trial.
Can you see my frustration now? None of us left (20) the room.
I think it was some sort of organized punishment.
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No nothing nada. Sit in a room.
I don't even think there was an active trial.
Can you see my frustration now? None of us left (20) the room.
I think it was some sort of organized punishment.
They also serve who only stand and wait
Meaning: We all have a place in this world and we all perform a function, regardless of our ability or disability. The word order of this sentence may make it more difficult to understand. In normal English it would be something like: "They (those people) who only stand and wait, also serve."
Note: serve (verb) = do duties or services for other people | stand (verb) = have an upright position on one's feet | wait (verb) = do nothing until something happens
Origin: Quotation from the great English poet John Milton (1608-74). After going blind, Milton wrote the poem "On His Blindness". In the sonnet's last line, he reflects that even with his disability he has a place in the world:
When I consider how my light is spent
Ere half my days in this dark world and wide,
And that one Talent which is death to hide
Lodged with me useless, though my soul more bent
To serve therewith my Maker, and present
My true account, lest He returning chide,
"Doth God exact day-labour, light denied?"
I fondly ask. But Patience, to prevent
That murmur, soon replies, "God doth not need
Either man's work or his own gifts. Who best
Bear his mild yoke, they serve him best. His state
Is kingly: thousands at his bidding speed,
And post o'er land and ocean without rest;
They also serve who only stand and wait.
Said much better than I could ever do.
stay safe.
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I'm kind of looking forward to the experience. I was called once before, about 1989. But, since I was deployed to the Med on a sub I was reluctantly excused. Dad talked to the court clerk, he said they were kind of miffed.
Small bonus, my work crew is down 3 people which is 60% of the day shift due to "less than optimal" managerial decisions (people transferred, got promoted) and they decided we didn't need to replace them. Then they shut off any and all overtime not related to customer trouble. The boss is scrambling now, should be a real hoot when I'm off for jury duty.
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I'd kinda like to sit an actual jury trial sometime. I've served jury duty once in my life, but it was grand jury. A couple of weeks of sitting in a room with the other members of the grand jury deciding whether to indict or not. The vast majority of the cases were people getting pulled over for driving on a suspended license. Repeatedly.
In my case I was fortunate to work for someone with a jury duty policy of "show us the documentation of when you were there and you get paid for it just like you were here at work."
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....
In my case I was fortunate to work for someone with a jury duty policy of "show us the documentation of when you were there and you get paid for it just like you were here at work."
Options with the state were 1) take the $25 the court paid and get no pay for the day plus burn a vacation day, or 2) skip the court's $25, take administrative leave and get paid for the day plus mileage difference between home-to-work and home-to-court. It was almost like they wanted you to serve.
I always wondered who the genius was who came up with that, and what HR did to them.
stay safe.
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The company pays full pay and any shift differential we would have normally received. Nothing in the policy about the jury duty stipend.
The company company does a pretty good job of being "socially responsible" when it comes to things like jury duty, voting, even working as election officials and does a good job of supporting NG/reserve obligations.
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Most places I worked at paid you regular pay for day(s) of jury duty. Some places you had to sign over your check, other places all you had to have was a note from the judge or other proof of jury service.
While I never served until I was disabled/retired. I had employees that were summoned. A couple of times I had to explain to the HR drone what the Company HR rules actually said. Not what he/she wanted them to say.
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Found an interesting take on jury duty, and why a person should embrace it. (Contains references to jurors who watch Jerry Springer or Oprah . . . would you want them on YOUR jury?)
http://www.ammoland.com/2013/08/a-look-at-the-jury-system-our-participation-in-it/#axzz2dAq4ClU3 (http://www.ammoland.com/2013/08/a-look-at-the-jury-system-our-participation-in-it/#axzz2dAq4ClU3)
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No nothing nada. Sit in a room.
I don't even think there was an active trial.
Can you see my frustration now? None of us left (20) the room.
I think it was some sort of organized punishment.
It is very likely that there was one scheduled and may have settled without a trial. Most stuff (90-95%) never goes to trial.
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It is very likely that there was one scheduled and may have settled without a trial. Most stuff (90-95%) never goes to trial.
I have quite literally settled cases on the courthouse steps or in the hallway either right before a trial starts, mid-way through or right before the case goes to the jury. It is rare for a malpractice case to settle at that stage, but it does happen. If the case had already started and then it is settled, we have the judge call the jury back in and explain that the case was settled and to thank them for their service.
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While interest in this thread is tapering down, how about this: In case you haven't heard, California is proposing to let NON-CITIZEN IMMIGRANTS serve as jurors. :facepalm:
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CA_XGR_IMMIGRANT_JURORS_CAOL-?SITE=CAANR&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CA_XGR_IMMIGRANT_JURORS_CAOL-?SITE=CAANR&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT)
Note that they're not talking about naturalized citizens, but actual foreign nationals.
I don't know about the rest of you, but BEING JUDGED BY FOREIGNERS IN MY OWN COUNTRY is not something I would accept, and I would regard any court that attempted to seat foreigners on an American jury as illegitimate.
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Been called for jury duty once, I was stationed in Korea at the time and the court clerk was pissed at my dad for calling in for me. :laugh: :facepalm:
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If you ever come in front of a jury, I hope you remember that you and your plan are responsible for the jury pool being stacked in favor of slack-jawed Jerry Springer rejects and old folks with walkers and Alzheimers.
While I still rank voting as a civic duty, for all the good it seems to do, I rank jury duty even higher. The fact that defense attorneys deselected me because I was employed in the prison system and prosecutors deselected me because I listed my profession as social worker notwithstanding, each of the time I was called I made sure to show up all scrubbed and my hair (head, face, body) nicely combed. I understand the financial hardship jury duty can create for the self-employed, but still rant about how the result of a jury decision might have been better (define that as you will) if there were a better class of people sitting in the jury box.
Given how many cases go to deals instead of going to trial, those that do come up for assessment of the facts deserve the best jury possible.
stay safe.
I've seen a jury selection. The lawyers look for the Springer fans, and kick out anybody that doesn't meet their criteria.
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While interest in this thread is tapering down, how about this: In case you haven't heard, California is proposing to let NON-CITIZEN IMMIGRANTS serve as jurors. :facepalm:
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CA_XGR_IMMIGRANT_JURORS_CAOL-?SITE=CAANR&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CA_XGR_IMMIGRANT_JURORS_CAOL-?SITE=CAANR&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT)
Note that they're not talking about naturalized citizens, but actual foreign nationals.
I don't know about the rest of you, but BEING JUDGED BY FOREIGNERS IN MY OWN COUNTRY is not something I would accept, and I would regard any court that attempted to seat foreigners on an American jury as illegitimate.
In a perfect world, that would not be a jury of my peers and ought to be unconstitutional.
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Unconstitutional, Oh Hell Yes. Jury of Peers? Ummmmm, NO.
http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=27193.msg532530#msg532530
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https://www.aclu.org/blog/lgbt-rights/jury-your-peers-right-jury-trial-free-discrimination
The process of selecting a jury for a trial begins with creating the “jury pool” – the group from which jurors are actually drawn to weigh evidence at trial. Federal law requires jurors be selected from a “fair cross-section of the community in the district or division wherein the court convenes.” As the Supreme Court noted over a century ago in Strauder v. West Virginia, the jury should be drawn from a group “composed of the peers or equals [of the defendant]; that is, of his neighbors, fellows, associates, persons having the same legal status in society as he holds.”
So, according to SCOTUS, I should have have a jury composed of citizens.
I wonder, if someone had the money to carry an appeal up to them, if they would repudiate their own "settled law"?
STAY SAFE.
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You know I have never understood why citizens can't volunteer to exercise their duty at their time of choosing. Say I'm going to be on vacation or a teacher during summer, or you find yourself unemployed for a time. Why can't I go to the courthouse serve when it's convenient for me and then my name is checked off a list for how ever many years till I could be eligible to serve again.
Oh that's right, that makes sense. Not a viable thought process for .gov
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I tried to volunteer shortly after I retired/went on disability. The nice lady told me they don't take volunteers for fear that I'd be trying to get on a particular trial. So they randomize the pool by literally using random call-ups from the driver's license and voter registration lists. Funny thing was I got called up for the first time about 4 months later. [tinfoil] :angel: ;/ =D ;)
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Day 1- So far it's been mostly a CF. Brand spanking new courthouse, A/C is FUBAR. Parking is nearly nonexistent due to construction.
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=(
I'm kinda sad that I still have never gotten called for jury duty. I want to be able to complain about doing my civic duty at great length to other people, too!
I feel so left out :'(
(just for the record, I'm not being a smart ass. I really do want to get jury duty at least once and I will complain about it, because that seems like what you are supposed to do. And I like complaining. :) )
Me too! And I'm probably a lot older than you; still never been summonsed.
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Same here.. 37 years old. Been a registered voter since I turned 18. I've never been called up for jury duty.
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They made up 3 pools, I'm on "C". No trials for me today but I have to call in everyday after 5:15PM to see if I need to go in the next day.
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Same here.. 37 years old. Been a registered voter since I turned 18. I've never been called up for jury duty.
Same her except that I am 42.
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Same her except that I am 42.
It's weird. A coworker younger than me gets called up pretty much every year. He is at the point now that he tries to get out of jury duty, figures he has done his part already considering so many people around here have never been called.
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Same her except that I am 42.
I'll be 54 in two months.
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Set your voter registration to Libertarian, and then see how often you get called up for jury duty. ;)
They hate them FIJA people.
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Well, my group has to be back in the morning.
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Sixty y.o. two weeks ago & got my first jury summons. To Fed court, yet. Seventy miles one way but I can stay over if I want. Get paid at work, too.
Probably get cancelled.
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Made it trough the first 2 week session without getting selected to be on a jury. I did have to set through 2 voir dires. I doubt I would have made the cut for either of those. 1st trial was a case of DHS wanting to revoke parental rights. I've got some 1sy and a half hand experience with that situation via my sister. I have been permanently biased against DHS ever since.
The 2nd case was "posesion of a firearm after felony conviction" The prosecutor asked the pool if anyonne owned a gun, about a third of the pool raised their hands, they were all asked how many and what kinds. I suspect that if I'd been asked that and I'd answered "somewhere between 25-30" and "everything from flintlocks to AR-15s". I might have been rejected. I also might have been dismissed if they asked me my opinion of the charges themselves. I doubt we would have been told but it would matter to me what the felony was.
The judge repeated several times that the jury MUST apply the law as written regardless of their feelings on the law.
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Made it trough the first 2 week session without getting selected to be on a jury. I did have to set through 2 voir dires. I doubt I would have made the cut for either of those. 1st trial was a case of DHS wanting to revoke parental rights. I've got some 1sy and a half hand experience with that situation via my sister. I have been permanently biased against DHS ever since.
The 2nd case was "posesion of a firearm after felony conviction" The prosecutor asked the pool if anyonne owned a gun, about a third of the pool raised their hands, they were all asked how many and what kinds. I suspect that if I'd been asked that and I'd answered "somewhere between 25-30" and "everything from flintlocks to AR-15s". I might have been rejected. I also might have been dismissed if they asked me my opinion of the charges themselves. I doubt we would have been told but it would matter to me what the felony was.
The judge repeated several times that the jury MUST apply the law as written regardless of their feelings on the law.
Just cause he SAYS it...
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I've been called for jury duty once. I'm 25 and it was 3 years ago.
I was selected. I was not able to serve because my grandfather had died the day before jury selection and the trial was going to be on the day of the funeral.
I do hope to one day serve on an interesting case and see the whole process.
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I also think it's a duty. Being self-employed (IOW, if I don't work I don't get paid), jury duty can be costly. When business is slow, though, it's not a problem.
Being white, male and middle-aged or older really reduced the odds of me being selected.
even when I really want to be on a jury, even when I volunteer for grand jury-I get turned down because my brother is a cop. :facepalm:
plus over 50 white guy. I'll never serve on a Jury, I have always shown up hoping to be picked I now know they never will.