Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Scout26 on September 14, 2013, 10:00:38 PM
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It's like Xenophon and Ayn Rand had a baby. It's Anabasis meets Atlas Shrugged.
Good Read, the military parts are a little farfetched, but the John Galt parts aren't preachy (or long winded) like Atlas Shrugged.
Great story, well told, with a message. 5 stars and two thumbs way up.
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Wishlisted. Thx. I'll probably kindle it.
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Cool. Thanks for the review.
There is a series called Hostile Takeover (http://www.amazon.com/Profiteer-Hostile-Takeover-Andrew-Swann/dp/0886776473/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1379212905&sr=1-2&keywords=hostile+takeover+swann) that is very libertarian/anarchist and gets into how a planet formed on those ideals would operate.
Very fun series.
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The Anabasis writ anew. Basically Ringo-style conservative pr0n but very fun.
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I listened to an audible version, really good.
my friend thought it really dissed organic farmers but it really just says know what the heck you're doing - it also made me like getting vaccinated - bring on the flu shots please.
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I loved The Last Centurion and have it on my nightstand to read again. I think it was here that some of y'all commented on Ringo being a bit out there and with a negative attitude toward women - I didn't see that much in this one, but it's the only one of his I've read.
Does he have anything else that's similar to this?
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I've read the Legend of the Aldenata, good read. I'm working on the March to the.... series. None are as Jocasse put it "Conservative pr0n" but at good reads.
I also discovered that the library has Terry Pratchett, so I'm going to start those. Anbody got a list of what order to read them in?
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I've read the Legend of the Aldenata, good read. I'm working on the March to the.... series. None are as Jocasse put it "Conservative pr0n" but at good reads.
I also discovered that the library has Terry Pratchett, so I'm going to start those. Anbody got a list of what order to read them in?
Check this: http://www.lspace.org/books/reading-order-guides/the-discworld-reading-order-guide-20.jpg
It doesn't list the latest fiction book though (Snuff, in the City Watch series), nor the latest The Science of Discworld book.
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Check this: http://www.lspace.org/books/reading-order-guides/the-discworld-reading-order-guide-20.jpg
It doesn't list the latest fiction book though (Snuff, in the City Watch series), nor the latest The Science of Discworld book.
So where do I start? With the Rincewind novels ?? Sorry, linear thinker here, although I did enjoy the side stories in the Legend of the Aldenata Series. Cally's War, Sister Time, etc, being somewhat of an exception. They were okay, but not as good as say Watch on the Rhine or Yellow Eyes.
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So where do I start? With the Rincewind novels ?? Sorry, linear thinker here, although I did enjoy the side stories in the Legend of the Aldenata Series. Cally's War, Sister Time, etc, being somewhat of an exception. They were okay, but not as good as say Watch on the Rhine or Yellow Eyes.
In hindsight, if I were to re-read everything with a blank slate/brain, I'd read them in the order they were published, just to be sure I knew what was up in a particular storyline from the previous book.
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So where do I start? With the Rincewind novels ?? Sorry, linear thinker here, although I did enjoy the side stories in the Legend of the Aldenata Series. Cally's War, Sister Time, etc, being somewhat of an exception. They were okay, but not as good as say Watch on the Rhine or Yellow Eyes.
Tom Kratman wrote those last two. He makes Ringo look like Phil Donahue. I never miss one of his books.
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I loved The Last Centurion and have it on my nightstand to read again. I think it was here that some of y'all commented on Ringo being a bit out there and with a negative attitude toward women - I didn't see that much in this one, but it's the only one of his I've read.
Does he have anything else that's similar to this?
I really liked the first four of the "Legacy of the Aldanata". A Hymn before Battle, Gust Front, When the Devil Dances, and Hell's Faire. Watch on the Rhine and Yellow eyes were pretty good as well. The Cally's War series starts to go dark porn a bit (Kinda rapey) but has some important points if you are going to pick the Hedron War series up.
"Empire of Man", (mentioned up thread) with David Weber is pretty good (5 books, The first four start with March, and then We Few)
I really like the "Through the Looking Glass" series and the stand alone Von Neumann's war. They have a redneck rocket scientist thing going on that's a lot of fun.
Stay away from the "Paladin of Shadows" series. That's where he delves into his Dom-Sub fantasies with a harem of "owned" women from some obscure tribe (Caucasian maybe?) weird and creepy.
As the other thread mentions Under the Graveyard sky is cool, but a departure from the future sci-fi stuff he normally writes.
Larry Corriea says he's got a joint venture with Ringo in the works that should be good.
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Thanks Dogmush. I've added your suggestions to my read list. I have been a little hesitant to pick up anything else of his because of what I've heard about the dark porn stuff. Good to know that to avoid and what's safe.
I also haven't read Larry Corriea's MH series yet and plan to get to it, but before I do that, want to read Devonai's books first - gotta support our own!
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David's books are good. Go for them.
Ringo's probably a better technical writer then Larry, but Larry's are more fun to read. If you haven't started on much of Ringo yet, I'd read MHI and Grim Noir Chronicles first. Both are better entertainment. Ringo requires you to keep a bunch of charecters and story threads going, and never gives you satisfaction. As far as I remember every John Ringo book ends in a cliff hanger leaving you wanting more, and he has yet to wrap up any of his series'. Even the Posleen books, Which number 12 with all the spin offs, he cant stop. 12 books, the end in sight, can we get some closure? No, open a new Galaxy and start another fraking war. sigh.
Read Larry and David first.
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Have to agree, I believe Larry is the better story-teller. I was never a "fantasy" person...at all...but Larry has this incredible mixture of alt history and awesome characters going on. And each of his books has a phenomenally satisfying conclusion.
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http://hradzka.livejournal.com/194753.html
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http://hradzka.livejournal.com/194753.html
This.
Ringo is a bit rapey, hooker addicted and makes you want to hit him upside the head with a rolled up newspaper. Guy can write, very well infact. He just needs an adult to smack him and scream "John Ringo, no!" as necessary (ie a lot). Kratman is essentially a Nazi, and not shy about it. Like, Heil Hitler, "I love the Nazi Party, the uniforms are just so FABULOUS!", "race/religious wars are teh awesome" Nazi, not the "like a Nazi because I think Reductio ad Hitlerum is the bestest argument winner since the Race Card".
Ringo is apparently manageable. Books he cowrites with others tend to be great. His new zombie book? No strippers, hookers, unconsenting or underage (or both) nookie, etc.
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Yes, the Paladin of Shadows is weird. I read A Deeper Blue not knowing anything about the series (nor that it's in the middle of the series.
There were some parts that gave me the hebbie-gebbies. And definitely pegged the WTF meter.
Haven't read anything else from that series and probably won't. The sex parts in books mostly seems gratuitous and never seems to advance the plot or the story.
"X and Y had sex" Now there's tension between them... I don't need the play-by-play of what they did.
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This.
Ringo is a bit rapey, hooker addicted and makes you want to hit him upside the head with a rolled up newspaper. Guy can write, very well infact. He just needs an adult to smack him and scream "John Ringo, no!" as necessary (ie a lot). Kratman is essentially a Nazi, and not shy about it. Like, Heil Hitler, "I love the Nazi Party, the uniforms are just so FABULOUS!", "race/religious wars are teh awesome" Nazi, not the "like a Nazi because I think Reductio ad Hitlerum is the bestest argument winner since the Race Card".
Ringo is apparently manageable. Books he cowrites with others tend to be great. His new zombie book? No strippers, hookers, unconsenting or underage (or both) nookie, etc.
what is the name of this zombie book?
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what is the name of this zombie book?
Under a Graveyard Sky. (http://www.baenebooks.com/p-1948-under-a-graveyard-sky.aspx?__utma=222178315.514705572.1379477175.1379477175.1379477175.1&__utmb=222178315.2.10.1379477175&__utmc=222178315&__utmx=-&__utmz=222178315.1379477175.1.1.utmcsr=(direct)|utmccn=(direct)|utmcmd=(none)&__utmv=-&__utmk=243319558)
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Started Graveyard sky...love it so far. Typical Ringo combination of achievement porn and action. Works for me :)
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Achievement porn?
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Achievement porn?
Ringo's characters aren't just action heroes. They're builders. They are faced with a massive problem with combined cultural, logistical, and security facets. They come up with a plan, and work it. They adapt to problems and bring in key people as they find them. You see this in the Keldara books, Graveyard Sky, Last Centurion and the other books which I cannot recall the name of but it's about the battle station in space. I love reading them. They are formulaic after a fashion but pretty engaging for my mind.
EDIT: Someone wrote a blog post about it once. It may have been Tam.
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This.
Ringo is a bit rapey, hooker addicted and makes you want to hit him upside the head with a rolled up newspaper. Guy can write, very well infact. He just needs an adult to smack him and scream "John Ringo, no!" as necessary (ie a lot). Kratman is essentially a Nazi, and not shy about it. Like, Heil Hitler, "I love the Nazi Party, the uniforms are just so FABULOUS!", "race/religious wars are teh awesome" Nazi, not the "like a Nazi because I think Reductio ad Hitlerum is the bestest argument winner since the Race Card".
Ringo is apparently manageable. Books he cowrites with others tend to be great. His new zombie book? No strippers, hookers, unconsenting or underage (or both) nookie, etc.
The Ghost series was *expletive deleted*ed up in all manner of ways.
His other books generally don't have that *expletive deleted*it. The Posleen War series is pretty good.
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This.
Ringo is a bit rapey, hooker addicted and makes you want to hit him upside the head with a rolled up newspaper. Guy can write, very well infact. He just needs an adult to smack him and scream "John Ringo, no!" as necessary (ie a lot). Kratman is essentially a Nazi, and not shy about it. Like, Heil Hitler, "I love the Nazi Party, the uniforms are just so FABULOUS!", "race/religious wars are teh awesome" Nazi, not the "like a Nazi because I think Reductio ad Hitlerum is the bestest argument winner since the Race Card".
Ringo is apparently manageable. Books he cowrites with others tend to be great. His new zombie book? No strippers, hookers, unconsenting or underage (or both) nookie, etc.
All of what you say applies only to one series by Ringo and one book by Kratman and it isn't even close to true with Kratman.
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Ringo's characters aren't just action heroes. They're builders. They are faced with a massive problem with combined cultural, logistical, and security facets. They come up with a plan, and work it. They adapt to problems and bring in key people as they find them. You see this in the Keldara books, Graveyard Sky, Last Centurion and the other books which I cannot recall the name of but it's about the battle station in space. I love reading them. They are formulaic after a fashion but pretty engaging for my mind.
EDIT: Someone wrote a blog post about it once. It may have been Tam.
That's not what I was thinking it would of been. :angel:
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All of what you say applies only to one series by Ringo and one book by Kratman and it isn't even close to true with Kratman.
The "oh john Ringo no!" article covers it better than I could. Mr Ringo agreed and endorsed it.
I will give the man credit for that acknowledgement. Few people have the integrity to be honest when reviewed like that.
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The "oh john Ringo no!" article covers it better than I could. Mr Ringo agreed and endorsed it.
I will give the man credit for that acknowledgement. Few people have the integrity to be honest when reviewed like that.
As long as you're claiming both that I'm a Nazi and that integrity matters to you, would you care to actually make the case that I'm a Nazi? You don't have to meet any high standard of evidence; a simple preponderance will do. Note that making your case will be complicated by the brown wife, and my own partially Slavic, Jewish, and Gypsy ancestry. In other words, are you one of those "[f]ew people who have the integrity to be honest" when someone calls bullshit? Hmmm?
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As long as you're claiming both that I'm a Nazi and that integrity matters to you, would you care to actually make the case that I'm a Nazi? You don't have to meet any high standard of evidence; a simple preponderance will do. Note that making your case will be complicated by the brown wife, and my own partially Slavic, Jewish, and Gypsy ancestry. In other words, are you one of those "[f]few people who have the integrity to be honest" when someone calls bullshit? Hmmm?
Fair enough and good points, I apologize. I would like to point out, you don't seem to go out of your way to lead folks away from that impression if they don't know your personal life and details. Which is your right to do and say as you please. But folks can raise an eyebrow and make perhaps unwarranted assumptions (yes, yes, I know, point proven here) in return.
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And we have just been Kratman'd. Welcome to our humble corner of the internet. [ar15]
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(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi3.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy88%2FAtc1man%2F874873EB-A5A7-469C-BC99-A55E83992688-44617-000015B86ACB8D54_zpsb590ec92.jpg&hash=04457d8cc0e0a49d621838bf6a070cfd0c75b03b) (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/Atc1man/media/874873EB-A5A7-469C-BC99-A55E83992688-44617-000015B86ACB8D54_zpsb590ec92.jpg.html)
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Fair enough and good points, I apologize. I would like to point out, you don't seem to go out of your way to lead folks away from that impression if they don't know your personal life and details. Which is your right to do and say as you please. But folks can raise an eyebrow and make perhaps unwarranted assumptions (yes, yes, I know, point proven here) in return.
Which goes back to my original question, what evidence is there of any of that? A book wherein the one unrepentent Nazi shown is shot down like a dog at the end by the hero, a former SS man who converted to Judaism, postwar? This is proof of Nazism sufficient that I need to go out of my way to rebut it? Isn't _that_ a *expletive deleted* fascinating concept, kill the Nazi and you are a Nazi? And, since you didn't key on that, it would appear you've made the charge based on a book you didn't even read, eh? So just what the *expletive deleted* are you, or any other "folk," raising an eyebrow over?
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Which goes back to my original question, what evidence is there of any of that? A book wherein the one urepentent Nazi shown is shot down like a dog at the end by the hero, a former SS man who converted to Judaism, postwar? This is proof of Nazism sufficient that I need to go out of my way to rebut it? Isn't _that_ a *expletive deleted* fascinating concept, kill the Nazi and you are a Nazi? And, since you didn't key on that, it would appear you've made the charge based on a book you didn't even read, eh? So just what the *expletive deleted* are you, or any other "folk," raising an eyebrow over?
If this is how you react to an apology, you may not want to hang around here no more.
Go check out the title of the website.
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If this is how you react to an apology, you may not want to hang around here no more.
Go check out the title of the website.
I saw that. So? I am still annoyed. Calling someone a Nazi on zero evidence and then citing to the zero evidence as reason to call someone a Nazi strikes me as something less than a full apology.
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I saw that. So? I am still annoyed. Calling someone a Nazi on zero evidence and then citing to the zero evidence as reason to call someone a Nazi strikes me as something less than a full apology.
Friend, if you are annoyed by everyone who may take issue with a piece of your writing, you may want to avoid
A.) The internet
B.) writing.
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Friend, if you are annoyed by everyone who may take issue with a piece of your writing, you may want to avoid
A.) The internet
B.) writing.
Ah, but he didn't take issue with anything I wrote, since nothing I wrote supports the notion of me being a Nazi. He took issue with _me_, accusing _me_ of something vile, then responded with a mealy mouthed pseudo-apology. So, is your theory that if someone is an author they have thereby forfeited the right to be offended by personal attacks? That's just fascinating. Why don't you elaborate?
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Ah, but he didn't take issue with anything I wrote, since nothing I wrote supports the notion of me being a Nazi. He took issue with _me_, accusing _me_ of something vile, then responded with a mealy mouthed pseudo-apology. So, is your theory that if someone is an author they have thereby forfeited the right to be offended by personal attacks? That's just fascinating. Why don't you elaborate?
I didn't say you forfeited anything.
I'm offended that you misinterpreted what I wrote.
Let me know where your official website is, so I can jump on and post up my annoyance.
Mealy-mouthed. Ha. Serious? It looked pretty sincere to me.
Your writing may not support you being a Nazi. But it certainly does support you being a *expletive deleted*bag of the highest order.
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I didn't say you forfeited anything.
I'm offended that you misinterpreted what I wrote.
Let me know where your official website is, so I can jump on and post up my annoyance.
Mealy-mouthed. Ha. Serious? It looked pretty sincere to me.
Your writing may not support you being a Nazi. But it certainly does support you being a *expletive deleted* of the highest order.
Bar.baen.com. You'll have to register. I hang out in the kratskeller.
No, a serious apology doesn't continue with the claim that I've given _any_ reason to accuse me of being a Nazi such that, apparently, I have to go around going "out of my way to lead folks from that impression." If you consider that a serious or sincere apology, _I_ do not.
Oh, yeah, I am an "expletive deleted" of the highest order. And if someone accuses me of that, "Guilty, as charged." No apology required. But I am not a Nazi. As a matter of fact, i am so not a Nazi...hmmm..you did notice the name, right? There are few of us. Why? because most of us did the all expense paid tour of the camps before going up in smoke.
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Gonna have to side with the interloper. He's got cause to be chapped.
Charges of "nazi" and "racist" are easy to fling and have been for years by the Left. Nowadays, such flinging has migrated to the center and parts of the right, too(1). It is a disgusting and insulting thing to do and if done, had best be backed up with fact. Because such an accusation is an attack and most certainly not Polite.
(1) See how cheaply obtained is a feeling of moral superiority...just accuse someone to the right of you of being a racist/nazi/homophobe. Preen away.
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Wow, a double-Godwinning of a thread.
I'm eager to hear Rev's response to this conversation.
That being said, Mr. Kratman, it'd be nice to have another author hang around our little enclave. We've got a couple here. This thread isn't representative of the way most of our discussions go.
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The thing here is, Rev is a long standing member and friend to many folks here who can vouch for him. He's helped a lot of folks out over the years, and while he's not perfect we all know him and generally like him.
You're "just some guy" even if you are a published author, so to step into a small community and 1. attack a well known and liked member and 2. play the role of victim because he said something that hurt your poor widdle fee-fees is probably not a great idea. It's not necessarily what you're doing so much as the way you're doing it.
Also, how much time do you have on your hands that you're trawling the internets looking for things to be offended by?
Roo_: the corollary is that just because the charges are over used don't mean that some folks are not, in fact, actual factual racists. Trying to deny that on the basis of "Well those damn liberals are always saying it so it must never be true" is counter-productive.
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The thing here is, Rev is a long standing member and friend to many folks here who can vouch for him. He's helped a lot of folks out over the years, and while he's not perfect we all know him and generally like him.
You're "just some guy" even if you are a published author, so to step into a small community and 1. attack a well known and liked member and 2. play the role of victim because he said something that hurt your poor widdle fee-fees is probably not a great idea. It's not necessarily what you're doing so much as the way you're doing it.
Also, how much time do you have on your hands that you're trawling the internets looking for things to be offended by?
Roo_: the corollary is that just because the charges are over used don't mean that some folks are not, in fact, actual factual racists. Trying to deny that on the basis of "Well those damn liberals are always saying it so it must never be true" is counter-productive.
Plus, on APS, when people apologize, others tend to accept it and move on.
Whining is for nazis.
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Wow, a double-Godwinning of a thread.
I'm eager to hear Rev's response to this conversation.
That being said, Mr. Kratman, it'd be nice to have another author hang around our little enclave. We've got a couple here. This thread isn't representative of the way most of our discussions go.
Hopefully not. And thanks.
You might enjoy this: http://www.tomkratman.com/rant2ndamend.html
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Which goes back to my original question, what evidence is there of any of that? A book wherein the one urepentent Nazi shown is shot down like a dog at the end by the hero, a former SS man who converted to Judaism, postwar? This is proof of Nazism sufficient that I need to go out of my way to rebut it? Isn't _that_ a *expletive deleted* fascinating concept, kill the Nazi and you are a Nazi? And, since you didn't key on that, it would appear you've made the charge based on a book you didn't even read, eh? So just what the *expletive deleted* are you, or any other "folk," raising an eyebrow over?
Easy, Mr Kratman. I started getting into the Posleen series (first couple of books were in the Baen free library) and read up to Hell's Faire, according to my tablet which still has it loaded. I skimmed the early parts of both Watch on the Rhine and Cally's War, and lost interest in the series. For me, that's not exactly uncommon with Mr Ringo's series, such as space anime in the Looking Glass series being too painful to continue reading. Mr Ringo is an excellent writer, but then often goes... weird at times. I will cop to not thoroughly reading the book, because the series lost my interest. I also skimmed the beginning of your Bolo short story (when I was reading Mr Laumer's books) involving some human splinter group's er, enthusiastic defense via genocide. I admit to losing interest after that. I started reading A Desert Called Peace, also from the Baen free library, which the hero (whom I don't even really recall) raising yet another ruthless fanatic army bent on being a bit more enthusiastic than generally acceptable these days.
You can blast me for not thoroughly and deeply reading your books, Mr Kratman. But I honestly couldn't get into them. Perhaps in all three, the characters realize their actions are reprehensible and terrible, and seek atonement. Or whatnot. But I couldn't stay engaged to that point. I'm slightly familiar with genocide, and more twitchy than some on the subjects of fanatics. Nothing like digging through a pile of corpses, that include women and children with their hands and feet wire tied, to give an unfavorable opinion on fanatics. I'm not playing the vet card. I'm stating that I tried to give your stories a fair shake, and they didn't hold my particular interest because they looked to be supportive of fanatical behavior in the first quarter or first third of the book/story. On the plus side, I'd say you're not a bad writer. Just not my sort of subjects. I will point out that it's not entirely casual when it seemed to be three times in a row. I drew the impression that you tended to fixate on ruthless, fanatical militaries, and not in a negative fashion.
Hence why I was ready to apologize when my surface impression is apparently wrong. If a book catches my eye, I give it the first quarter to catch my attention. If it doesn't, and it's not always because it's badly written, I move on. After a few times, I tend to draw my opinion. They tend to go into the pile where I buy their books upon release, or I tend to avoid them because of the impression I got. First impressions are a bit of a hard thing to shake, Mr Kratman. I'm willing to concede a first impression, or third impression, as being wrong. But I will repeat, it was based on three first impressions that may have been flawed, but seemed legitimate on the surface from my admittedly unthorough view. You owe me no justification, and your style of writing is your own. I will say that one CAN get an impression you apparently dislike and seem hostile to, via the above mentioned means.
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Easy, Mr Kratman. I started getting into the Posleen series (first couple of books were in the Baen free library) and read up to Hell's Faire, according to my tablet which still has it loaded. I skimmed the early parts of both Watch on the Rhine and Cally's War, and lost interest in the series. For me, that's not exactly uncommon with Mr Ringo's series, such as space anime in the Looking Glass series being too painful to continue reading. Mr Ringo is an excellent writer, but then often goes... weird at times. I will cop to not thoroughly reading the book, because the series lost my interest. I also skimmed the beginning of your Bolo short story (when I was reading Mr Laumer's books) involving some human splinter group's er, enthusiastic defense via genocide. I admit to losing interest after that. I started reading A Desert Called Peace, also from the Baen free library, which the hero (whom I don't even really recall) raising yet another ruthless fanatic army bent on being a bit more enthusiastic than generally acceptable these days.
You can blast me for not thoroughly and deeply reading your books, Mr Kratman. But I honestly couldn't get into them. Perhaps in all three, the characters realize their actions are reprehensible and terrible, and seek atonement. Or whatnot. But I couldn't stay engaged to that point. I'm slightly familiar with genocide, and more twitchy than some on the subjects of fanatics. Nothing like digging through a pile of corpses, that include women and children with their hands and feet wire tied, to give an unfavorable opinion on fanatics. I'm not playing the vet card. I'm stating that I tried to give your stories a fair shake, and they didn't hold my particular interest because they looked to be supportive of fanatical behavior in the first quarter or first third of the book/story. On the plus side, I'd say you're not a bad writer. Just not my sort of subjects. I will point out that it's not entirely casual when it seemed to be three times in a row. I drew the impression that you tended to fixate on ruthless, fanatical militaries, and not in a negative fashion.
Hence why I was ready to apologize when my surface impression is apparently wrong. If a book catches my eye, I give it the first quarter to catch my attention. If it doesn't, and it's not always because it's badly written, I move on. After a few times, I tend to draw my opinion. They tend to go into the pile where I buy their books upon release, or I tend to avoid them because of the impression I got. First impressions are a bit of a hard thing to shake, Mr Kratman. I'm willing to concede a first impression, or third impression, as being wrong. But I will repeat, it was based on three first impressions that may have been flawed, but seemed legitimate on the surface from my admittedly unthorough view. You owe me no justification, and your style of writing is your own. I will say that one CAN get an impression you apparently dislike and seem hostile to, via the above mentioned means.
I don't and didn't blast you for that. I do and did blast you for making a personal accusation on zero evidence.
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Plus, on APS, when people apologize, others tend to accept it and move on.
Whining is for nazis.
Whe people actually apologize I do accept it and move on. When they try to justify it under the merest _form_ of an apology, I do not. Those are different things. And, since you are apparently whining about that does that make you a self confessed Nazi? Just curious.
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Whe people actually apologize I do accept it and move on. When they try to justify it under the merest _form_ of an apology, I do not. Those are different things. And, since you are apparently whining about that does that make you a self confessed Nazi? Just curious.
You assume I am whining, with no evidence of such. Please cite such evidence, and why i need to go out of my way to prove otherwise.
Thanks
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The thing here is, Rev is a long standing member and friend to many folks here who can vouch for him. He's helped a lot of folks out over the years, and while he's not perfect we all know him and generally like him.
You're "just some guy" even if you are a published author, so to step into a small community and 1. attack a well known and liked member and 2. play the role of victim because he said something that hurt your poor widdle fee-fees is probably not a great idea. It's not necessarily what you're doing so much as the way you're doing it.
Also, how much time do you have on your hands that you're trawling the internets looking for things to be offended by?
Roo_: the corollary is that just because the charges are over used don't mean that some folks are not, in fact, actual factual racists. Trying to deny that on the basis of "Well those damn liberals are always saying it so it must never be true" is counter-productive.
So your theory is that if someone well liked on a board attacks someone - authorial status is fairly irrelevant for this - that someone really ought to just put up with it? Did my not going along with this hurt you poor widdle fee-fees?
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You assume I am whining, with no evidence of such. Please cite such evidence, and why i need to go out of my way to prove otherwise.
Thanks
You simply sound like you're whining to me. Since the standard of proof here seems to be very low and entirely subjective, that makes you a whiner, which by your own definition makes you a Nazi.
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You simply sound like you're whining to me. Since the standard of proof here seems to be very low and entirely subjective, that makes you a whiner, which by your own definition makes you a Nazi.
You've ignored other standards around here, why adhere to our standard of proof?
You should lurk more, check the place out, and try not to get so offended at that which is not worthy of offense.
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Gonna have to side with the interloper. He's got cause to be chapped.
Charges of "nazi" and "racist" are easy to fling and have been for years by the Left. Nowadays, such flinging has migrated to the center and parts of the right, too(1). It is a disgusting and insulting thing to do and if done, had best be backed up with fact. Because such an accusation is an attack and most certainly not Polite.
(1) See how cheaply obtained is a feeling of moral superiority...just accuse someone to the right of you of being a racist/nazi/homophobe. Preen away.
Indeed, Roo. You might enjoy these:
The Left's 20 Rules of Racism:
1. If you believe that general intelligence exists, is heritable and at all testable for, you're a racist.
2. If you point out that liberal philosophies and programs intended to have a good impact have had a disproportionately bad impact on the ethnicities targeted by liberals, you're a racist.
3. If you notice that other cultures have some problems, you're a racist.
4. If you notice your own culture has had some successes, you're a racist.
5. If you try to identify subcultural problems, you're a racist. If the problems existed or got worse under liberalism, see item 2, above.
6. If you're mainstream American culture, and don't hate that culture, you're a racist.
7. If you're capable of noting unpleasant facts about subcultures and discussing them without your brain fogging, you're a racist.
8. If you won't kowtow and grovel as soon as someone accuses you of racism for one of the reasons above or below, you're a hopeless racist.
9. If you do not believe that mankind is a tabula rasa for liberals to make whatever they think would be good to make of man, this week, you're a racist.
10. If you don't take personal responsibility for all the evils of slavery, you're a racist. This is true even if you only arrived from Poland last week.
11. If you're white, you're a racist.
12. If you're white and just arrived from Poland last week and don't accept that you're a racist, you're a racist.
13. If you try to interject logical thought into a discussion of culture, you're a racist.
14. If you refuse to admit culture is a racial matter, and a liberal wants to conflate the two, you're a racist.
15. If you believe that race and culture are indistinguishable and a liberal decides that you shouldn't conflate the two, you're a racist.
16. If you believe that black or Hispanic girls who are paid by liberal inspired programs from the age of 13 to have babies will have babies, you're a racist.
17. If you believe that _any_ girls of whatever color who are paid to have babies will then have babies but then, insensitively, observe that a smaller percentage of white girls do, certainly because they haven't been targeted for as much "help" from liberals, you're a racist.
18. If it doesn't bother you that the truth offends liberals, you're a racist.
19. If your name is Tom Kratman and you write and in your writing your heroes and heroines tend to be from minorities while your villains are white liberals, you're still a racist.
20. If you read The Bell Curve, you're a racist. On the other hand, if you didn't read it but wrote a scathing review on Amazon anyway you might not be a racist provided you take personal responsibility for 300 years of slavery even if you just arrived from Poland last week.
The Right’s Twenty Rules of Racism:
1. Anyone responsible for three hundred years of slavery would have to be a lot older than you and me.
2. There has to be some genetics in “racism’s” DNA, some DNA in its gene pool, or it just isn’t racism.
3. Racism could be eliminated in the United States if we could just eliminate the white liberals who so plainly depend on it so much and do so much to keep it going.
4. Reality isn’t racist: The reality is that there are pond-scummy gallows bait in every group. Some of those will be more of a problem to their own group than to you (see Rule 14, below). Some will be more of a problem to you precisely because you’re not a member of their group. It is wise, not racist, to avoid the latter. In Boston, this may be referred to as the “Evelyn Wagler-George Pratt Rule,” and that’s not code. Odd exception to half of Rule 4: Jesse Jackson would much rather be followed by a white on the streets of DC, at night, than a black.
5. There have been two instances in recent history where the concept of “honorary white” held sway. One was in apartheid South Africa where, for example, Japanese were considered “honorary white.” The other was when, in relation to the Trayvon Martin shooting, the American mainstream media made Hispanic George Zimmerman an “honorary white.” This is not entirely coincidence since (see Rule 18) the very liberal American media is as racist in their way as ever the Afrikaner Broederbond was in its.
6. Nobody really thinks whites are as evil as portrayed by white liberals and black demagogues. If they really thought so, they’d be too afraid to ever leave the house, since a) there are a lot more whites, b) those whites are much better armed, c) they’re more likely to be veterans of the Army’s and Marine Corps’ ground gaining combat arms, and d) they have an historically demonstrated cultural aptitude for mass, organized violence.
7. People who insist you’re speaking in code insist on it because they believe it’s true. They believe it’s true because they really do speak in code and can’t imagine anyone who does not speak in code. It’s not racist to think those people are idiots, nor to note that they’re mostly white. (Exception to rule: When conservatives talk about guns and zombies? Especially in terms of using the former to kill the latter? Yeah; “zombie” is code for “liberals of any color.” See Rule 6, above.)
8. It’s not racist to note that white liberalism managed to do in about thirty years something that three hundred years of slavery could not, seriously damage the black family, generally though not universally, and ruin it completely over wide swaths.
9. Speaking of slavery, the bulk of slave raiding and trading in Africa was black, usually Islamic black (see Rule 16, below), on black. The Arabic word for black and slave is the same, “Abd.” And the first registered slave owner in Virginia was black. Pointing this out to liberals, white and black, is always fun.
10. It’s not racist to wish that our first black president had been Thomas Sowell.
11. The “Some of my best friends” defense against a charge of racism is no defense…unless it happens to be true. Sometimes it’s best expressed to a white liberal as, “You don’t have so much as a day in uniform, do you, dipshit?”
12. The system of education that white liberals have inflicted on inner city blacks is a crime against humanity. No amount of money that they toss at it helps to overcome the elimination of discipline liberalism has caused. It’s neither racist to note this…nor wrong.
13. The various college and university minority “studies” programs, because they give a useless pseudo-education, and at very high cost in both money and time, are racist in their effects.
14. Most black crime is black on black crime. It is racist in its effects to deprive the black community of the social good that comes from executing black criminals that prey on other blacks.
15. It takes a white liberal idiot (Lord, forgive us our redundancies) not to understand the difference between casual sex with a member of another race and marrying and investing one’s entire reproductive effort in a member of another race. See, e.g., http://www.tomkratman.com/yoli.html. Dipshits.
16. Islam is not a race. Detesting Islam is not racist. There is nothing in Islam which genetically compels either slightly tanned Palestinians or totally white English reverts to pray toward Mecca five times daily, to self-detonate in crowded squares and movie theaters, to find offense in just about everything, nor even to clitorectomize their women. Flash alert: Lysenko was wrong. Dipshits.
17. When a liberal accuses you of racism, rejoice; it means the dipshit knows he or she is losing.
18. The worst racists are liberals, mostly white ones, who assume that blacks and hispanics are so inferior that only affirmative action in perpetuity would give them a remotely fair chance. (That this also keeps a lot of liberal white social workers and bureaucrats employed is, of course, merely incidental. Ahem. Dipshits.)
19. There was a conservative argument for a kind of affirmative action. Unfortunately, all the money’s already been spent on employing white liberal social workers and bureaucrats, and we’re broke now, so that ship has sailed. Again, blame dipshit white liberals.
20. Screaming “Racism! Raaaacissssm!” on the part of a white liberal, when the matter in question has no DNA in its gene pool, no genetics in its DNA (see Rule 2, above), is the surest proof that said white liberal is genetically defective. And a dipshit. And it’s not racist to point this out.
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So your theory is that if someone well liked on a board attacks someone - authorial status is fairly irrelevant for this - that someone really ought to just put up with it? Did my not going along with this hurt you poor widdle fee-fees?
For an "author," your ability to comprehend what you read is... off.
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So your theory is that if someone well liked on a board attacks someone - authorial status is fairly irrelevant for this - that someone really ought to just put up with it? Did my not going along with this hurt you poor widdle fee-fees?
No, that's not my point at all. My point is that you're being a dick. If you wanted people to care about Rev saying mean things about you, then not being a dick would probably be a good idea. If you just came here to crap all over our forum, then mission accomplished. You had a legitimate grievance, but that doesn't excuse your behaviour. Two wrongs and all that.
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To all.
Everyone might want to go and read the "Welcome to the Armed Polite Society" Thread.
And maybe focus on the second word.
Mr. Kratman, Welcome to our little corner of the Interwebz. We had a member express his opinion, you came and pointed out his error. He apologized. As is often pointed out, only 7% of communication are the words. The other 93% are tone of voice and facial expressions. The written word, (both in books and here, electronically) leave out all of the vital clues regarding that communication.
So someone read parts of your books and got a completely different take from you know and intended. I'm pretty sure that it's not the first time it has ever happened. Even to you. Having been appraised of his error, the gentleman apologized.
The End.
I personally, am glad to have you here, as I have enjoyed the three books that you have written with John Ringo, and look forward to reading others that you have authored. I am also very glad to have RevDisk here as he, like many others here, have a great deal of experience and knowledge that help all of us further understand our world and the events that shape.
So welcome, and I'll apologize that your entry into our world was not a smooth one.
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For an "author," your ability to comprehend what you read is... off.
Don't think so.
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Folks, calm down. Yes, I stepped on my own dick in how I phrased things and went too far. But everyone take a friggin deep breath. Go have a cigarette or beer. Or yoga. Or punch a bear, or whatever. No point in escalating matters.
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Folks, calm down. Yes, I stepped on my own dick in how I phrased things and went too far. But everyone take a friggin deep breath. Go have a cigarette or beer. Or yoga. Or punch a bear, or whatever. No point in escalating matters.
Psh. Mealy mouthed.
Please provide evidence to assert that there is no point in escalating matters.
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To all.
Everyone might want to go and read the "Welcome to the Armed Polite Society" Thread.
And maybe focus on the second word.
Mr. Kratman, Welcome to our little corner of the Interwebz. We had a member express his opinion, you came and pointed out his error. He apologized. As is often pointed out, only 7% of communication are the words. The other 93% are tone of voice and facial expressions. The written word, (both in books and here, electronically) leave out all of the vital clues regarding that communication.
So someone read your book and got a completely different take from you know and intended. I'm pretty sure that it's not the first time it has ever happened. Even to you. Having been appraised of his error, the gentleman apologized.
The End.
I personally, am glad to have you here, as I have enjoyed the three books that you have written with John Ringo, and look forward to reading others that you have authored. I am also very glad to have RevDisk here as he, like many others here, have a great deal of experience and knowledge that help all of us further understand our world and the events that shape.
So welcome, and I'll apologize that your entry into our world was not a smooth one.
No sweat. I like to think of things like this as therapy.
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No sweat. I like to think of things like this as therapy.
Regardless of anything else, you sir have masochistic theories on therapy.
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Regardless of anything else, you sir have masochistic theories on therapy.
I admit it's a little odd.
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I admit it's a little odd.
It's a little odd that John Wilkes Booth's brother saved the life of Abe Lincoln's son a year or two before Lincoln was assassinated. That's very odd.
Anyways, to make amends, I'll buy and read cover to cover any book you wrote that you would like me to read. To give a fair shake and thorough impression. Which would you recommend?
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It's a little odd that John Wilkes Booth's brother saved the life of Abe Lincoln's son a year or two before Lincoln was assassinated. That's very odd.
Anyways, to make amends, I'll buy and read cover to cover any book you wrote that you would like me to read. To give a fair shake and thorough impression. Which would you recommend?
Nah. If you can't get into them, then you can't. They're not for everybody.
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Rev,
If you read the Legend of Aldenata series, then you might like Yellow Eyes. The Posleen War as seen from the other side.
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Could we talk about the Butt Hurt questionaire. I thought that was really funny. =D :rofl:
PS: I think Rev humbled himself properly. He even sounded like he'd spend money. Maybe now Kratman can unbunch his underwear a bit and hopefully hang around. Another weird interesting person around here would have no trouble fitting in. [popcorn]
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Rev, re: Kratman novels -
My personal favorites of his were Watch on the Rhine and Yellow Eyes, in that order.
I know you said you started and could not get through Watch, but I found it a very interesting look into a particular TEOTWAWKI scenario: you have the ability to bring back X, a particular military force with a reputation for combat capability AND tainted by service in one of the most evil regimes the world has seen. Do you rejuvenate them and put them into service? Oh, if you don't, there's a fair chance that evil alien monsters will swarm over the world and eat every last human being. I thought that Kratman and Ringo did an excellent job with that, myself. The fact that a lot of people (mostly modern "liberals") read no more than the jacket blurb and took offense to the notion that ex-Nazis could ever be anything other than irredeemably evil was kinda icing on the cake, for me.
Yellow Eyes, as stated, has a lot from the point of view of a Posleen God-King who... ran into trouble following his landing in Central America. Lots of ... broad humor, let's say.
Read his Caliphate series, and thought it was okay. I felt that it was... over the top, but not every book works for every reader. Read a couple of the M-Day (?) series, his modern-mercenary series, and just wasn't pulled in.
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Roo_: the corollary is that just because the charges are over used don't mean that some folks are not, in fact, actual factual racists. Trying to deny that on the basis of "Well those damn liberals are always saying it so it must never be true" is counter-productive.
Balog:
Fine. Then back it up.
My primary point was not, "Don't do what lefties do, 'cause it is always wrong" but "Back up character assassination with fact." That is not "denial of accusation by leftist example."
I don't know The Author Formerly Known as A Nazi 'round here from Adam. Never met him, may have read one of his books, but if I did, it did not stick in my mind. He might very well wear feldgrau PJs to bed and cut his steak with the bayonet from a K98 blooded by the naziest nazi on the western front. I do not know. What I do know is that TAFKAN was tarred with the Nazi/Nazi-Symp label on one man's opinion with no facts to back it up.
If folks are going to pull the nazi/racist/anti-semite card, they had best bring some pretty adamantine data in support. Because so accusing someone is about the basest, foulest sort of character assassination currently practiced, save an accusation of child molestation. Someone making such an accusation with nothing more than feelings of butthurtedness (to keep with that theme), political difference, and/or vague discomfort ought to expect to have their head handed to them. (I would include "and ought to be ashamed of themselves," but I suspect I am a couple centuries too late for that to have any meaning.)
Now, I have (like Rev, it seems) read some authors that made me go, "Hmmm. Perhaps the author enjoyed the subject matter a bit too much." Usually to do with violence, gore, rape, etc. I was especially hit by it in a particular RPG which described evil magic and rituals in disturbing detail. For example (from memory, paraphrased & toned down from original): "1. Obtain virgin of no more than 16 years of age. 2. Have 11 of your closest henchmen [brutally rape her]. 3. Tie her down on the stone and [inflict all sorts of tortures upon her]. 3. Lastly, [kill her in some foul manner]." You get the picture. The author was going for verisimilitude and wanted to convey that these folk lived in an evil realm and were pretty damned evil. IIRC, many of his descriptions were taken from Druidic/Celtic ritual. Yeah, I wanted nothing to do with that RPG and would not leave such a thing laying about the house. I can honestly say that I found the detailed sadism, rape, and the like to be disturbing. At the same time, I ought to be careful of accusing the author of sadism, misogyny, or anti-Celt animus with no more than my discomfort as a guide.
As far as this kerfluffle, it seems to have been reconciled by the primaries.
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Roo_ster: ;/ You're missing the point by rather a wide margin.
I wasn't referring to this incident, merely pointing out a disturbing trend on the right. "We get accused of racism for everything so nothing is really racism" is pretty common among the conservative side. It's a boy who cried wolf thing. I was merely pointing out that sometimes there really is a wolf.
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Roo_ster: ;/ You're missing the point by rather a wide margin.
I wasn't referring to this incident, merely pointing out a disturbing trend on the right. "We get accused of racism for everything so nothing is really racism" is pretty common among the conservative side. It's a boy who cried wolf thing. I was merely pointing out that sometimes there really is a wolf.
Which actually goes to an interesting point I am not sure you see, though you may. See, I used to go ballistic over charges of racism. There's nothing, literally nothing, to support those, unless one conflates culture and race, as the left will do when it's convenient to them. Eventually - see 40 rules above - I decided to ignore the left because their overuse of the term had robbed it of any meaning beyond, "You're a badwickedevilnaughtybadbadbad person and I am losing the argument." Indeed, the reason I wrote the rules was to dump them on any leftist who claimed I was a racist. Oddly, that doesn't seem to happen much since I started doing that.
That, however, is just me. Much worse, what seems to be happening is that a lot of people are beginning to see that the word has no meaning beyond, again, "You're a badwickedevilnaughtybadbadbad person and I am losing the argument." It's bad enough that they've robbed the term of meaning. But still worse than that, a lot of people seem to be shifting to the mindset, "You accuse me of racism with no grounds. You are a moronic POS. I may as well be this thing you accuse me of, since if you're against it it can't be all that bad and may be good."
I invite anyone who is interested's attention to Thucydides, http://klio.uoregon.edu/tx/gr/corcyra.htm. "First of all, words had to lose their ordinary meanings..."
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Rev, re: Kratman novels -
My personal favorites of his were Watch on the Rhine and Yellow Eyes, in that order.
I know you said you started and could not get through Watch, but I found it a very interesting look into a particular TEOTWAWKI scenario: you have the ability to bring back X, a particular military force with a reputation for combat capability AND tainted by service in one of the most evil regimes the world has seen. Do you rejuvenate them and put them into service? Oh, if you don't, there's a fair chance that evil alien monsters will swarm over the world and eat every last human being. I thought that Kratman and Ringo did an excellent job with that, myself. The fact that a lot of people (mostly modern "liberals") read no more than the jacket blurb and took offense to the notion that ex-Nazis could ever be anything other than irredeemably evil was kinda icing on the cake, for me.
Yellow Eyes, as stated, has a lot from the point of view of a Posleen God-King who... ran into trouble following his landing in Central America. Lots of ... broad humor, let's say.
Read his Caliphate series, and thought it was okay. I felt that it was... over the top, but not every book works for every reader. Read a couple of the M-Day (?) series, his modern-mercenary series, and just wasn't pulled in.
Caliphate is a stand alone. Do you mean A Desert Called Peace, et seq?
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Which actually goes to an interesting point I am not sure you see, though you may. See, I used to go ballistic over charges of racism. There's nothing, literally nothing, to support those, unless one conflates culture and race, as the left will do when it's convenient to them. Eventually - see 40 rules above - I decided to ignore the left because their overuse of the term had robbed it of any meaning beyond, "You're a badwickedevilnaughtybadbadbad person and I am losing the argument." Indeed, the reason I wrote the rules was to dump them on any leftist who claimed I was a racist. Oddly, that doesn't seem to happen much since I started doing that.
That, however, is just me. Much worse, what seems to be happening is that a lot of people are beginning to see that the word has no meaning beyond, again, "You're a badwickedevilnaughtybadbadbad person and I am losing the argument." It's bad enough that they've robbed the term of meaning. But still worse than that, a lot of people seem to be shifting to the mindset, "You accuse me of racism with no grounds. You are a moronic POS. I may as well be this thing you accuse me of, since if you're against it it can't be all that bad and may be good."
I invite anyone who is interested's attention to Thucydides, http://klio.uoregon.edu/tx/gr/corcyra.htm. "First of all, words had to lose their ordinary meanings..."
Radio guy in Houston named Michael Berry express similar thoughts on racism. I have heard him respond to a caller something like "okay, I'm a racist, answer the question" because the caller seemed to think throwing out that accusation would shut him up. He is pretty anti-PC.
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[popcorn]
Can we make the my little pony fight gif a smilie?
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Radio guy in Houston named Michael Berry express similar thoughts on racism. I have heard him respond to a caller something like "okay, I'm a racist, answer the question" because the caller seemed to think throwing out that accusation would shut him up. He is pretty anti-PC.
The left, who are the proponents of the Orwellian Doublespeak we call "PC," never seem to understand that they can only manipulate the language to control the way we think so much (and that _is_ what they've been trying to do), nor can they grasp that people will recognize and resent the manipulation and work around their attempts at thought control, nor that it's a very short step from them banning words to the rest deciding that they're, to borrow a couple of terms closely related to what brought me here, "untermensch," and "life unworthy of life."
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Caliphate is a stand alone. Do you mean A Desert Called Peace, et seq?
Yes - I'd thought that was the... shorthand, more or less, for the series. Guess I misremembered. I couldn't remember the protagonist's name, or might have remembered the series title. I don't believe I read The Amazon Legion yet, and there's your new one coming out in a little over a month, both of which I'll likely take a look at.
Rev: I'd forgotten about A State Of Disobedience (Kratman's earliest release, apparently, and his first that I ever read), which I rather enjoyed, and The Tuloriad, which delves further into the history of the Posleen. Both of those might be potentially of interest to you.
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Yes - I'd thought that was the... shorthand, more or less, for the series. Guess I misremembered. I couldn't remember the protagonist's name, or might have remembered the series title. I don't believe I read The Amazon Legion yet, and there's your new one coming out in a little over a month, both of which I'll likely take a look at.
Rev: I'd forgotten about A State Of Disobedience (Kratman's earliest release, apparently, and his first that I ever read), which I rather enjoyed, and The Tuloriad, which delves further into the history of the Posleen. Both of those might be potentially of interest to you.
Easy mistake to make; one of the advertising writers for Baen did a blurb for ADCP that included the phrase, "Earth's corrupt caliphate." It's accurate, in a way, but highly misleading, in another. And you're not the first person to be misled.
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I don't know about books, but this thread was a highly entertaining read.
:rofl:
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Could we talk about the Butt Hurt questionaire. I thought that was really funny. =D :rofl:
Another weird interesting person around here would have no trouble fitting in. [popcorn]
I, sir, refuse to be interesting. So there!
Brad
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I, sir, refuse to be interesting. So there!
Brad
Your refusal has piqued my interest.
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Your refusal has piqued my interest.
I, too, am intrigued by the banality of your attempted evasion of observation.
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So, I tried rereading "A Desert Called Peace".
Well, I'm reminded why I basically tossed "A Desert Called Peace".
It's thinly covered that the main character is the author's personification. Basically, the story starts off with Space Muslims pull a Space 9/11 because they hate freedom and... WHO THE HELL KNOWS OR CARES. SPACE MUSLIMS BAD. BECAUSE. The author's pre commentary is helpful to point out "you can take it as a commentary on the endless war between the Christian or secular West and Islam, if you want." Because it is in no way obvious. Space America is awesome, Space Everyone Else sucks, Space UN is bad. Anyways, Space Kratman gets upset with his family dying, so he decides genocide is the order of the day. Because killing innocents is bad, so the righteous thing to do is go kill a bunch of innocent people. Plus maybe a couple of the folks that were actually responsible. You know, if there's time.
Space Kratman is upset that the US Army and civilian leadership doesn't pander to his notions that the US Army should be killing people exclusively, and no other useful tasks. Er, I mean, Space US Army. Space Kratman is too awesome for those lame-os. So he's gonna go all MERCENARY, known historically for their excellence in combat. Also, Space Kratman changes his names without any real reason or explanation. BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT SPACE OPERATORS DO. Space Kratman "was a smoky wraith hidden in a wreath of smoke." (direct quote, for literary awesomeness) Also, Token Black Sidekick talks Token Black. Also, Space Kratman is the bestest commander ever. So, killing innocents is gonna take work. And Space Kratman knows how to roll up his sleaves and get work done, he recruits Space Mexicans, because they're cheap.
No, no. Really. Yes, really. Well, they may be some other swarthy group. Maybe from Space Panama?
Anyways. So, then Space Kratman is off to convince the wog mercenaries that Islam is evil. "I want it to be on the oppression and betrayal of Christians under Mohammed when Islam first reared its head on Old Earth. Historical accuracy is unimportant. I want to plant the thought in Balboa that Islam is evil and false in its very roots." Balboa being Space Mexico. Also, Space Women are stupid, at least the Space Mexico variant are, and believe anything put in a Space Romance Book. Author Kratman really demonstrates his Civil Affairs experience ably.
Also, sidekicks go dirty gay bar to kill dirty gays. An appropriate number of words were used to convince the reader that homosexuals are bad people in the eyes of Space Kratman and possibly Author Kratman. But it very well could be Space Kratman's sidekicks not approving of homosexuality, when Space Kratman himself supports equal oppertunity for all. Space Kratman would also like you to know, he strongly dislikes Muslims. Because they are bad. This involves decision-making diagrams. No, really.
So, Space Kratman goes out of his way to prove how evil Muslims are by bombing a bunch of Space Mexican (or Panamian!) schoolgirls, who have nothing to do with Muslims. No, really. I swear to the Gods. Then they celebrate, not realizing the total irony. Also rammed in here is a thinly veiled "progressive is EVIL!" thing. Also, feeding starving children is evil. Actually, anything humanitarian is fake, bad or evil. So is entertainment. Also, progressive is very evil. So is Space Apple. Hey, at least Kratman and I can agree strongly on one point. Apparently Space Arabs gave the Space Jews land right next door. So that they could get angry and demanding it back from the Space Jews. And then Space Arabs (or just Space Muslim Arabs ?) continue to push them back into the sea, er vaccum of space? Nevermind, just skip the whole thing so your brain doesn't try to eat its way out.
ANYWAYS. Space Kratman then goes shopping after some slaughter of non-Muslim innocent girls. For Soviet hardware. Er, Space Soviet hardware. He uses T-38 for T-80, and T-48 for T-90. There is a lot of this. Extremely minor changes from Soviet designations, it's bloody annoying. So, then, Space Kratman seizes control of government so they don't stop him from recreate the Latino Roman Legions, but with a grammatically incorrect name. I couldn't make this up if I tried. Also, Military dictatorship = FREEDOM!
Space Kratman wanks on about making Roman Legions out of Space Mexicans, and is very upset about not making it high up the chain of command. Or being given any significant command whatsoever. Anyone that makes General has no real character, apparently. Also, Space Kratman is too cool and brilliant for them anyways. He ensures training kills plenty of his Space Mexicans and ensures the training is not good, because that will make awesome soldiers. Everyone bows to Space Kratman's superior tactical and strategical doctrine. Also, Space Kratman is pissed that he never got a star, because FOLKS CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH! Also, Space Mexicans don't need modern armor, because they are Space Mexicans. Actually teach the Space Mexicans on how to use their equipment? Na.
Then there is a horrific sex scene. No, not John Ringo horrific and unconsenting. Well... Nevermind, I'll just say, it was not well written.
So then Space Kratman calls up Space Hillary Clinton. No, I'm not kidding. Or drunk. Then they go see Space Rumsfield. Look, I couldn't make this up if I was on LSD.
Space Rumsfield's minions gush like little schoolgirls about Space Kratman's awesomeness, manliness and genius. That they are nothing compared to such an awesome officer of vision and ...
Ok, that's it, I quit. AGAIN. I don't care if Space Kratman does realize that his actions make him personally as bad or worse than the people he dislikes. He's an egotistical jackass with delusions of grandeur, that is not a tenth as smart or competent as he believes himself to be. There's reasons why he didn't make it up the ladder back in the military, and why no sane person trusted him with any real command. For a change, it wasn't politics, it was the person.
There, I confess. I am AGAIN panning a book I did not completely read. I give up.
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Also, sidekicks go dirty gay bar to kill dirty gays. An appropriate number of words were used to convince the reader that homosexuals are bad people in the eyes of Space Kratman and possibly Author Kratman. But it very well could be Space Kratman's sidekicks not approving of homosexuality, when Space Kratman himself supports equal oppertunity for all. Space Kratman would also like you to know, he strongly dislikes Muslims. Because they are bad. This involves decision-making diagrams. No, really.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F_vumvMuagQtc%2FTVAeBqfCtqI%2FAAAAAAAABlM%2FsoEXxo9g-KQ%2Fs400%2Fpenisisevil.jpg&hash=8682b98c1298bb0b96aef291fc99428475cdfb49)
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Space Kratman . . . Token Black . . .
"O my God! They killed Space Kenny!"
"You space bastards!"
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Rev, you should post that as a review on amazon.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi328.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl342%2F1k_wayne%2Fjunk%2Fpopcorn.gif%7Eoriginal&hash=ab69fe011c57243e5441a587f9b3b523f8fae1f4)
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Thread delivers
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Easy mistake to make; one of the advertising writers for Baen did a blurb for ADCP that included the phrase, "Earth's corrupt caliphate." It's accurate, in a way, but highly misleading, in another. And you're not the first person to be misled.
I have always loved you...
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Rev, you should post that as a review on amazon.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi328.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl342%2F1k_wayne%2Fjunk%2Fpopcorn.gif%7Eoriginal&hash=ab69fe011c57243e5441a587f9b3b523f8fae1f4)
I raise you a Jackson, sir.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimgur.com%2FtCp90.gif&hash=a7984a8421a9aeb756ab9cbd1338191b2e1f1d4d)
Rev, that's beautiful. Absolutely beautiful.
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Folks, calm down. Yes, I stepped on my own dick
Showoff.
(sorry, I just found this thread)
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Which actually goes to an interesting point I am not sure you see, though you may. See, I used to go ballistic over charges of racism. There's nothing, literally nothing, to support those, unless one conflates culture and race, as the left will do when it's convenient to them. Eventually - see 40 rules above - I decided to ignore the left because their overuse of the term had robbed it of any meaning beyond, "You're a badwickedevilnaughtybadbadbad person and I am losing the argument." Indeed, the reason I wrote the rules was to dump them on any leftist who claimed I was a racist. Oddly, that doesn't seem to happen much since I started doing that.
That, however, is just me. Much worse, what seems to be happening is that a lot of people are beginning to see that the word has no meaning beyond, again, "You're a badwickedevilnaughtybadbadbad person and I am losing the argument." It's bad enough that they've robbed the term of meaning. But still worse than that, a lot of people seem to be shifting to the mindset, "You accuse me of racism with no grounds. You are a moronic POS. I may as well be this thing you accuse me of, since if you're against it it can't be all that bad and may be good."
I invite anyone who is interested's attention to Thucydides, http://klio.uoregon.edu/tx/gr/corcyra.htm. "First of all, words had to lose their ordinary meanings..."
What, exactly, is wrong with conflating race and culture? Unless someone has an extreme hard-on for pedantic definitions, I don't see the functional or logical problem.
The word "race" is one of those words that is problematic because it is so very difficult to define. Etymologically, it originally was used to categorize people by nation. It has been continually evolving over the past several centuries. I've literally had some people tell me that the Irish never experienced mass amounts racism in the US "because Irish isn't a race."
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So, I tried rereading "A Desert Called Peace".
Well, I'm reminded why I basically tossed "A Desert Called Peace".
It's thinly covered that the main character is the author's personification. Basically, the story starts off with Space Muslims pull a Space 9/11 because they hate freedom and... WHO THE HELL KNOWS OR CARES. SPACE MUSLIMS BAD. BECAUSE. The author's pre commentary is helpful to point out "you can take it as a commentary on the endless war between the Christian or secular West and Islam, if you want." Because it is in no way obvious. Space America is awesome, Space Everyone Else sucks, Space UN is bad. Anyways, Space Kratman gets upset with his family dying, so he decides genocide is the order of the day. Because killing innocents is bad, so the righteous thing to do is go kill a bunch of innocent people. Plus maybe a couple of the folks that were actually responsible. You know, if there's time.
Space Kratman is upset that the US Army and civilian leadership doesn't pander to his notions that the US Army should be killing people exclusively, and no other useful tasks. Er, I mean, Space US Army. Space Kratman is too awesome for those lame-os. So he's gonna go all MERCENARY, known historically for their excellence in combat. Also, Space Kratman changes his names without any real reason or explanation. BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT SPACE OPERATORS DO. Space Kratman "was a smoky wraith hidden in a wreath of smoke." (direct quote, for literary awesomeness) Also, Token Black Sidekick talks Token Black. Also, Space Kratman is the bestest commander ever. So, killing innocents is gonna take work. And Space Kratman knows how to roll up his sleaves and get work done, he recruits Space Mexicans, because they're cheap.
No, no. Really. Yes, really. Well, they may be some other swarthy group. Maybe from Space Panama?
Anyways. So, then Space Kratman is off to convince the wog mercenaries that Islam is evil. "I want it to be on the oppression and betrayal of Christians under Mohammed when Islam first reared its head on Old Earth. Historical accuracy is unimportant. I want to plant the thought in Balboa that Islam is evil and false in its very roots." Balboa being Space Mexico. Also, Space Women are stupid, at least the Space Mexico variant are, and believe anything put in a Space Romance Book. Author Kratman really demonstrates his Civil Affairs experience ably.
Also, sidekicks go dirty gay bar to kill dirty gays. An appropriate number of words were used to convince the reader that homosexuals are bad people in the eyes of Space Kratman and possibly Author Kratman. But it very well could be Space Kratman's sidekicks not approving of homosexuality, when Space Kratman himself supports equal oppertunity for all. Space Kratman would also like you to know, he strongly dislikes Muslims. Because they are bad. This involves decision-making diagrams. No, really.
So, Space Kratman goes out of his way to prove how evil Muslims are by bombing a bunch of Space Mexican (or Panamian!) schoolgirls, who have nothing to do with Muslims. No, really. I swear to the Gods. Then they celebrate, not realizing the total irony. Also rammed in here is a thinly veiled "progressive is EVIL!" thing. Also, feeding starving children is evil. Actually, anything humanitarian is fake, bad or evil. So is entertainment. Also, progressive is very evil. So is Space Apple. Hey, at least Kratman and I can agree strongly on one point. Apparently Space Arabs gave the Space Jews land right next door. So that they could get angry and demanding it back from the Space Jews. And then Space Arabs (or just Space Muslim Arabs ?) continue to push them back into the sea, er vaccum of space? Nevermind, just skip the whole thing so your brain doesn't try to eat its way out.
ANYWAYS. Space Kratman then goes shopping after some slaughter of non-Muslim innocent girls. For Soviet hardware. Er, Space Soviet hardware. He uses T-38 for T-80, and T-48 for T-90. There is a lot of this. Extremely minor changes from Soviet designations, it's bloody annoying. So, then, Space Kratman seizes control of government so they don't stop him from recreate the Latino Roman Legions, but with a grammatically incorrect name. I couldn't make this up if I tried. Also, Military dictatorship = FREEDOM!
Space Kratman wanks on about making Roman Legions out of Space Mexicans, and is very upset about not making it high up the chain of command. Or being given any significant command whatsoever. Anyone that makes General has no real character, apparently. Also, Space Kratman is too cool and brilliant for them anyways. He ensures training kills plenty of his Space Mexicans and ensures the training is not good, because that will make awesome soldiers. Everyone bows to Space Kratman's superior tactical and strategical doctrine. Also, Space Kratman is pissed that he never got a star, because FOLKS CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH! Also, Space Mexicans don't need modern armor, because they are Space Mexicans. Actually teach the Space Mexicans on how to use their equipment? Na.
Then there is a horrific sex scene. No, not John Ringo horrific and unconsenting. Well... Nevermind, I'll just say, it was not well written.
So then Space Kratman calls up Space Hillary Clinton. No, I'm not kidding. Or drunk. Then they go see Space Rumsfield. Look, I couldn't make this up if I was on LSD.
Space Rumsfield's minions gush like little schoolgirls about Space Kratman's awesomeness, manliness and genius. That they are nothing compared to such an awesome officer of vision and ...
Ok, that's it, I quit. AGAIN. I don't care if Space Kratman does realize that his actions make him personally as bad or worse than the people he dislikes. He's an egotistical jackass with delusions of grandeur, that is not a tenth as smart or competent as he believes himself to be. There's reasons why he didn't make it up the ladder back in the military, and why no sane person trusted him with any real command. For a change, it wasn't politics, it was the person.
There, I confess. I am AGAIN panning a book I did not completely read. I give up.
Yawn. Oh, well. I did warn you off. And even if you're full of *expletive deleted*it and plagiarized spacebabies for this, that's fine.
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Yawn. Oh, well. I did warn you off. And even if you're full of *expletive deleted* and plagiarized spacebabies for this, that's fine.
Do you seriously have nothing better to do with your time then harras people who don't like your books?
Cause thats just sad.
Although, it is awfully entertaining.
[popcorn]
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What, exactly, is wrong with conflating race and culture? Unless someone has an extreme hard-on for pedantic definitions, I don't see the functional or logical problem.
The word "race" is one of those words that is problematic because it is so very difficult to define. Etymologically, it originally was used to categorize people by nation. It has been continually evolving over the past several centuries. I've literally had some people tell me that the Irish never experienced mass amounts racism in the US "because Irish isn't a race."
There are a couple of problems with it. One is that it's basically unfair to hold people accountable for their race and any advantages (Ashkenazi Jews, say. Speaking) or disadvantages they may have, while culture is a _little_ more malleable. Another is that there are some fraking vile cultural practices out there, which it is no bad thing to despise. Yet racism is supposed to be doubleplusungood. When you start saying it is bad to oppose female genital mutilation, slavery, and racism, itself a cultural feature, because that's all racist, you are on very soft philosophical and moral ground. That said, yes, the practice isn't especially new. The Brits had their doctrine of "martial races" in India, but were really talking culture. Still, that a practice is old doesn't make it less wrong, or less silly.
Addendum. Irish, arguably, is a race of course, but it's the same race as Scot and Welsh, who were fully acceptable here. The problem the Irish had (speaking), was more cultural and religious, America having, at the time, a vast mistrust of the Catholic church nearly everywhere. But an Irish Catholic could overcome most of that easily enough by swimming the Tiber in the opposite direction, by joining the Temperance Union (speaking), and by giving up his penchant for fighting (speaking), or simply by outlasting it, while intermarrying, while his kids grew up without the brogue. Thus, while there was cultural bigotry there, and while it could operate in the same way as racism, as far as its victims were concerned, and while it was mostly unjust, wrong, and stupid, it could also be overcome in a way that racism could not. There is, thus, no real racism here on the part of whites against other whites who happen to be Irish-descended, after 170 odd years, there is still racism against blacks, who have been here still longer. Why? Because cultural bigotry and racism are not quite the same thing.
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Do you seriously have nothing better to do with your time then harras people who don't like your books?
Cause thats just sad.
Although, it is awfully entertaining.
[popcorn]
You call that harrassment, do you? You must be very sensitive. You have my sympathy.
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You call that harrassment, do you? You must be very sensitive. You have my sympathy.
Says the guy with google alerts to his name, and with a pretty hilarious history of arguing with people who don't like his books on teh interwebz.
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You call that harrassment, do you? You must be very sensitive. You have my sympathy.
Indeed, if there's one thing that tie's BSL's posts here together over the years, it's that super sensitivity to harassment. ;/
I think I have A desert Called Peace buried somewhere in my ebooks file. Now I have to dig it up and see if it's really that genocidy.
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[popcorn]
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Says the guy with google alerts to his name, and with a pretty hilarious history of arguing with people who don't like his books on teh interwebz.
Yawn.
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Indeed, if there's one thing that tie's BSL's posts here together over the years, it's that super sensitivity to harassment. ;/
I think I have A desert Called Peace buried somewhere in my ebooks file. Now I have to dig it up and see if it's really that genocidy.
Why bother? If you haven't read it by now, not likely it's going to be your cup of tea. Instead, I suggest you go to spacebattles.com and do a search for my name. (They've got so many threads about me I'd be flattered about their obsession...if I were gay.) I'm fairly sure - not absolutely, no, but fairly - that that's what Rev did. Doesn't bother me, either, since their obsession actually helps me sell some small number of books, to include actually selling some books I'm giving away for free. Hmmm...will this? Let's see....brb... nope, no kick from this thread. Sigh. Sniff. Whaa.
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Ladies and gentlemen, remember.
This man was a field grade officer.
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Ladies and gentlemen, remember.
This man was a field grade officer.
Yes I was or, rather, still am. What were you?
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Yes I was or, rather, still am. What were you?
I'm still in. About to be promoted to Sergeant First Class. Like you, I am infantry. Spent some time as a Drill Sergeant, spent a great deal of time giving the Madhi Army a hard time and finding IEDs. The brigade I was in still has the record for the longest deployment of a brigade sized element for the war on terror.
I'm in the National guard now, and my civilian job is spent doing systems engineering for the Border Patrol.
In my off time, I play in several bands, and released an album that saw some pretty great regional success. I have yet to set up a google alert so that I can tell people who don't like me how stupid they are, though. Perhaps you'd like to tell me how I can make that happen.
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I'm still in. About to be promoted to Sergeant First Class. Like you, I am infantry. Spent some time as a Drill Sergeant, spent a great deal of time giving the Madhi Army a hard time and finding IEDs. The brigade I was in still has the record for the longest deployment of a brigade sized element for the war on terror.
I'm in the National guard now, and my civilian job is spent doing systems engineering for the Border Patrol.
In my off time, I play in several bands, and released an album that saw some pretty great regional success. I have yet to set up a google alert so that I can tell people who don't like me how stupid they are, though. Perhaps you'd like to tell me how I can make that happen.
Are you controversial? Is there money in it for you to get free advertising? Do you enjoy fighting? Do you regularly get accused of being a racist or nazi by people who don't know anything about you? Do you deal politely with infantry former drills who seem to have taken a major dislike to you?
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Are you controversial? Is there money in it for you to get free advertising? Do you enjoy fighting? Do you regularly get accused of being a racist or nazi by people who don't know anything about you? Do you deal politely with infantry former drills who seem to have taken a major dislike to you?
The music was certainly controversial for a Soldier. There could be money in it, since it's still for sale.
I love fighting. Why else would I be in the infantry?
You were accused of liking nazis. Big deal. Here's a thought... if you regularly get accused by a variety of different people of these things, maybe the problem is you.
Yeah. Real polite to come in someone else's community and cause trouble.
An officer, and a gentleman, you are.
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Why bother? If you haven't read it by now, not likely it's going to be your cup of tea. Instead, I suggest you go to spacebattles.com and do a search for my name. (They've got so many threads about me I'd be flattered about their obsession...if I were gay.) I'm fairly sure - not absolutely, no, but fairly - that that's what Rev did. Doesn't bother me, either, since their obsession actually helps me sell some small number of books, to include actually selling some books I'm giving away for free. Hmmm...will this? Let's see....brb... nope, no kick from this thread. Sigh. Sniff. Whaa.
Curiosity. I think I got it in one of Baen's eBook bundles so not having read it by now is less an issue of it not being my cuppa, but rather it not climbing high enough up my to do list to ping my radar. Now it has.
On another note, I didn't call you names, nor did I imply anything about your writing other then to say I liked some of your Ringo collaborations. So why the sneering suggestion to hit whatever site.com when I said I was going to read your book? That is what you hope folks will do to them isn't it?
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The music was certainly controversial for a Soldier. There could be money in it, since it's still for sale.
I love fighting. Why else would I be in the infantry?
You were accused of liking nazis. Big deal. Here's a thought... if you regularly get accused by a variety of different people of these things, maybe the problem is you.
Yeah. Real polite to come in someone else's community and cause trouble.
An officer, and a gentleman, you are.
It is a big deal to me.
And yes, I am a gentleman. Are you?
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I gotta admit though, I thoroughly enjoyed the smackdown he gave to a reviewer calling herself "Great Pyr" on amazon.
But then again, I'm a misogynist and a sexist. Or at least, that's what my wife tells me before she locks me in the dungeon below the house.
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It is a big deal to me.
And yes, I am a gentleman. Are you?
Absolutely not. I'm an enlisted infantryman. If we were gentlemen, we'd never win a battle.
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Curiosity. I think I got it in one of Baen's eBook bundles so not having read it by now is less an issue of it not being my cuppa, but rather it not climbing high enough up my to do list to ping my radar. Now it has.
On another note, I didn't call you names, nor did I imply anything about your writing other then to say I liked some of your Ringo collaborations. So why the sneering suggestion to hit whatever site.com when I said I was going to read your book? That is what you hope folks will do to them isn't it?
Then read it. Free country, after all. I may have misread you, though the phrase, "see if it's that genocidy" is probably what keyed me to do so.
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Then read it. Free country, after all. I may have misread you, though the phrase, "see if it's that genocidy" is probably what keyed me to do so.
I was an enlisted infantryman. 1974 to 1978. I was still a gentleman, maybe a gentleman ranker, but a gentleman.
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I was an enlisted infantryman. 1974 to 1978. I was still a gentleman, maybe a gentleman ranker, but a gentleman.
Maybe that's why you became an officer? :rofl:
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Then read it. Free country, after all. I may have misread you, though the phrase, "see if it's that genocidy" is probably what keyed me to do so.
Perhaps I was unclear. There is a review in this thread that says the book glorifies genocide. I wish to see if it does, and to what extent. To "see if it's that genocide [as Rev's review says]"
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Perhaps I was unclear. There is a review in this thread that says the book glorifies genocide. I wish to see if it does, and to what extent. To "see if it's that genocide [as Rev's review says]"
You weren't unclear.
You see, to our friend here, even the expression of a desire to confirm/deny someone else's review of his book is offensive.
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Absolutely not. I'm an enlisted infantryman. If we were gentlemen, we'd never win a battle.
I have serious doubts Pyr actually read the book. When s/h/it attacked as central to my position a proposition that that I, myself, attacked and debunked, it does leave open to question either s/h/it's integrity or s/h/it's reading ability and intelligence.
I run into that quite a bit, so much so that, except in cases of personal attack - calling me a nazi, say - I generally just yawn and mutter, "Gegen Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens." Pyr was a special case, though, and worth crapping on extensively.
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Maybe that's why you became an officer? :rofl:
No, I enlisted out of Boston Latin intending to become an officer, but intending to learn some things before I did.
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I have serious doubts Pyr actually read the book. When s/h/it attacked as central to my position a proposition that that I, myself, attacked and debunked, it does leave open to question either s/h/it's integrity or s/h/it's reading ability and intelligence.
I run into that quite a bit, so much so that, except in cases of personal attack - calling me a nazi, say - I generally just yawn and mutter, "Gegen Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens." Pyr was a special case, though, and worth crapping on extensively.
To your credit, it was a spectacular verbal beatdown. I am not being sarcastic at all when I say I enjoyed reading it.
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Perhaps I was unclear. There is a review in this thread that says the book glorifies genocide. I wish to see if it does, and to what extent. To "see if it's that genocide [as Rev's review says]"
That's one of the reasons why I suspect rev just went to sb and more or less cut and pasted. I cannot think of an occasion in the book that has anything approaching genocide. War crimes and reprisals there are, aplenty, but genocide I just can't recall.
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You weren't unclear.
You see, to our friend here, even the expression of a desire to confirm/deny someone else's review of his book is offensive.
Nope.
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Nope.
Then what offended you about dogmush's post?
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Then what offended you about dogmush's post?
Nothing. After the comment on genocidy I figured he'd already assumed that rev's post was legit, rather than a cut and paste from a deliberate hack job on SB. SO what would he have to gain by it? And what would I have to gain by someone reading it from the presumption that said cut and paste hack job was legit? My suggestion was sincere, possibly mistaken or derived from a wrong reading, but sincere.
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What, exactly, is wrong with conflating race and culture?
Because one is based on shared biology and the other is based on shared practices, attitudes, & such as exhibited by groups of people. Hardware vs software, if you will.
Many have so conflated in the past and you would have some good company. As the Brits spread out into the world and studied every bit they found, "race" was used many times where we nowadays use the terms "culture," "nation," etc.
TK addressed it above pretty well, but there is a relatively simple description of race: and extended & interbred family. I am not the first to use that definition. It has the advantage of being based in biology and is real, concrete, and provable in this day & age of genetic testing(1). If we don't want to use the word "race" for such a thing, we would have to invent a new word to describe the real, provable concept.
Also, the origins of the words give hints. Culture is one of those words the Normans brought along with them into Anglo-Saxon England. It referred to cultivation, usually of crops. IOW: actions/verbs. Race had similar origins and referred to lineage, breeding, etc.
(1) Relative to the old school way of cataloging external features.
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Why bother? If you haven't read it by now, not likely it's going to be your cup of tea. Instead, I suggest you go to spacebattles.com and do a search for my name. (They've got so many threads about me I'd be flattered about their obsession...if I were gay.) I'm fairly sure - not absolutely, no, but fairly - that that's what Rev did. Doesn't bother me, either, since their obsession actually helps me sell some small number of books, to include actually selling some books I'm giving away for free. Hmmm...will this? Let's see....brb... nope, no kick from this thread. Sigh. Sniff. Whaa.
I read through that thread, yes. I also used :
http://www.baenebooks.com/10.1125/Baen/1416521453/1416521453.htm
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/CarrerasLegions
=D
The TvTropes was actually more useful than the SpaceBattles threads, as they tended to devolve quickly. But some of the references made me go back and hit certain high points. I specifically was impressed by the way your character thought little to nothing of the Space Panamanians (per TvTropes, SB disagrees and says its Space Mexicans, are you willing to settle that debate by telling us which?). Buying mortar ammo that was inaccurate and shrugging when it killed friendies. Buying the cheapest space armor, that was probably overall as bad as NO armor for the mobility limitations. Providing troops with disinformation on the quality of their tanks. Having Space Panamanians or Mexicans in motor boats dragging targets for live gunnery exercises. Intentionally NOT having Range Safety Officers during live fire exercises. Any of which shows an utter disregard for the soldiers under Space Kratman's command.
I'm slightly confused by this. You normally attribute what you see as positive characteristics to the character blatantly obviously based on yourself. Yet you make it seem like your character sees the space wogs as essentially subhuman? Is there a reason I'm missing?
My only shot in the dark is seeing utter disregard for one's troops as a way of "toughening them up". I've only seen that attitude from officers from third world countries, with near uniformly bad results. I have spent a significant amount of time training foreign soldiers. From "Better than the Average US Soldier" quality to "barb" quality. Even in a near barbarian level army, the troops tend NOT to be as dumb as the officers believe them to be, and very well know the officers are trying to get them killed while the officers tend to lounge about in much better, or safer conditions. So they slack, and put their own lives ahead of the unit. Unit cohesion tends to be bad, because the individual soldiers (or mercenaries in this case) are focused on their OWN lives as they know no one else is going to look after it. Focusing on team dynamics (slowly) got better results because they'd be more willing to take risks for the unit as a whole if they believed others would do the same, from added peer pressure, and the belief that others were watching the individual soldier's back.
Edit: Second question: Why set it all Sci-Fi instead of just doing an alt history/universe? Some of the Space names were... it seemed like you didn't even really care to come up with actually different names. It seemed like there was little science fiction, essentially just a thin cover in order to call it science fiction?
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I read through that thread, yes. I also used :
http://www.baenebooks.com/10.1125/Baen/1416521453/1416521453.htm
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/CarrerasLegions
=D
The TvTropes was actually more useful than the SpaceBattles threads, as they tended to devolve quickly. But some of the references made me go back and hit certain high points. I specifically was impressed by the way your character thought little to nothing of the Space Panamanians (per TvTropes, SB disagrees and says its Space Mexicans, are you willing to settle that debate by telling us which?). Buying mortar ammo that was inaccurate and shrugging when it killed friendies. Buying the cheapest space armor, that was probably overall as bad as NO armor for the mobility limitations. Providing troops with disinformation on the quality of their tanks. Having Space Panamanians or Mexicans in motor boats dragging targets for live gunnery exercises. Intentionally NOT having Range Safety Officers during live fire exercises. Any of which shows an utter disregard for the soldiers under Space Kratman's command.
I'm slightly confused by this. You normally attribute what you see as positive characteristics to the character blatantly obviously based on yourself. Yet you make it seem like your character sees the space wogs as essentially subhuman? Is there a reason I'm missing?
My only shot in the dark is seeing utter disregard for one's troops as a way of "toughening them up". I've only seen that attitude from officers from third world countries, with near uniformly bad results. I have spent a significant amount of time training foreign soldiers. From "Better than the Average US Soldier" quality to "barb" quality. Even in a near barbarian level army, the troops tend NOT to be as dumb as the officers believe them to be, and very well know the officers are trying to get them killed while the officers tend to lounge about in much better, or safer conditions. So they slack, and put their own lives ahead of the unit. Unit cohesion tends to be bad, because the individual soldiers (or mercenaries in this case) are focused on their OWN lives as they know no one else is going to look after it. Focusing on team dynamics (slowly) got better results because they'd be more willing to take risks for the unit as a whole if they believed others would do the same, from added peer pressure, and the belief that others were watching the individual soldier's back.
People - and I use the term loosely - often assume that Carrera is me. There are some points of similarity, eyes and good looking wife. Hmmm...based on SB I am the only blue eyed guy in the world. There are more points of dissimilarity. Those dissimilarities are often quite deliberate, as I am one superstitious mo fo, and do not want what I did to him to happen to me. Yes, really. The big difference is that I am, at least mostly, sane while he is, at least mostly, not. Part of this is, of course, that my family is entirely alive and his is entirely dead. If you want to believe Carrera is a Marty Stu, go ahead. I don't care and I couldn't do anything about it if I did care. Once again, "Gegen Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens."
As for the training, the ammunition, the whatever. I was a sergeant and a lieutenant in a unit where every battalion used more ammunition, four deuce and below, than the entire 82d Airborne. I've run well over four hundred platoon equivalent live fires and never once given a safety brief in a safety brief format. (Why? Because they're useless CYA nonsense. I did backbrief rehearsals, which work.) We used to live fire, with no appreciable concessions to safety, on average about 13 times a month. We got bad lots of ammunition. We had short rounds. People did get wounded and killed (never on a range for which I was responsible, but once on a range I had a piece of). All of this in the US Army. And it never deterred anybody in the 193d in the slightest. The people who object to this I don't think really understand the history of the thing - for example the .5 percent of basic trainee deaths was both German Army in WW II and MY OSUT company in 74. Yeah. Really. - or understand training very well at all.
By the way, what do you think having a separate shadow chain of command does for safety? In my experience, it just confuses the troops which is inherently UNsafe.
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I read through that thread, yes. I also used :
http://www.baenebooks.com/10.1125/Baen/1416521453/1416521453.htm
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/CarrerasLegions
Edit: Second question: Why set it all Sci-Fi instead of just doing an alt history/universe? Some of the Space names were... it seemed like you didn't even really care to come up with actually different names. It seemed like there was little science fiction, essentially just a thin cover in order to call it science fiction?
That's one of the problems you'll have when you use hit pieces to form your judgment. Example: SB said somewhere - and TVTropes carried it over - that I used the same Chinese name for their colony as real, Earth-bound China: Zhong Guo. It is, in fact, Ming Zhong Guo, New Middle Kingdom. Of course SB is entirely correct, nobody ever names their colony for the mother country or area. I did not grow up in New England. Boston and Plymouth do not exist. There are no such places as New York or New Jersey nor even New South Wales. Ahem.
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People - and I use the term loosely - often assume that Carrera is me. There are some points of similarity, eyes and good looking wife. Hmmm...based on SB I am the only blue eyed guy in the world. There are more points of dissimilarity. Those dissimilarities are often quite deliberate, as I am one superstitious mo fo, and do not want what I did to him to happen to me. Yes, really. The big difference is that I am, at least mostly, sane while he is, at least mostly, not. Part of this is, of course, that my family is entirely alive and his is entirely dead. If you want to believe Carrera is a Marty Stu, go ahead. I don't care and I couldn't do anything about it if I did care. Once again, "Gegen Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens."
You may not have intended the reader to make a Marty Stu connection, but virtually everyone else has. Here's an example of a pretty good review that covers the highlights.
http://xodiac.fo.cx/rev/view.php?bookid=996
Most rational folks would see a mostly Marty Stu main character, and the rest of the book being essentially a commentary on how you think the War on Terror should be run.
Regardless of what you intended, it's
As for the training, the ammunition, the whatever. I was a sergeant and a lieutenant in a unit where every battalion used more ammunition, four deuce and below, than the entire 82d Airborne. I've run well over four hundred platoon equivalent live fires and never once given a safety brief in a safety brief format. (Why? Because they're useless CYA nonsense. I did backbrief rehearsals, which work.) We used to live fire, with no appreciable concessions to safety, on average about 13 times a month. We got bad lots of ammunition. We had short rounds. People did get wounded and killed (never on a range for which I was responsible, but once on a range I had a piece of). All of this in the US Army. And it never deterred anybody in the 193d in the slightest. The people who object to this I don't think really understand the history of the thing - for example the .5 percent of basic trainee deaths was both German Army in WW II and MY OSUT company in 74. Yeah. Really. - or understand training very well at all.
By the way, what do you think having a separate shadow chain of command does for safety? In my experience, it just confuses the troops which is inherently UNsafe.
I gather your live fire exercises weren't green third world troops, still learning their systems and equipment? There's a mild difference between trained soldiers that have been around the block a few times and green recruits. I was generally taught crawl, walk, run. Throwing "newbies" into the run stage rarely worked out as well as expected.
I never considered RSO's as a "shadow chain of command", but extra set of eyes that has nothing else on their plate but ensure no one was about to die unnecessarily. Calling RSO's a shadow chain of command is kinda insane at best. I'm quite sure there are bad RSO's that "confuse" troops and make things unsafe, they obviously need either training or a different slot. The ROLE of RSO should be to facilitate training while improving.
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Because one is based on shared biology and the other is based on shared practices, attitudes, & such as exhibited by groups of people. Hardware vs software, if you will.
Many have so conflated in the past and you would have some good company. As the Brits spread out into the world and studied every bit they found, "race" was used many times where we nowadays use the terms "culture," "nation," etc.
TK addressed it above pretty well, but there is a relatively simple description of race: and extended & interbred family. I am not the first to use that definition. It has the advantage of being based in biology and is real, concrete, and provable in this day & age of genetic testing(1). If we don't want to use the word "race" for such a thing, we would have to invent a new word to describe the real, provable concept.
Also, the origins of the words give hints. Culture is one of those words the Normans brought along with them into Anglo-Saxon England. It referred to cultivation, usually of crops. IOW: actions/verbs. Race had similar origins and referred to lineage, breeding, etc.
(1) Relative to the old school way of cataloging external features.
Again, you're relying on the assumption that it's something as simple as a few phenotypes.
There are other words. Take ethnicity, for example.
Those cheek swab tests, by the way, are mostly useless, and group people by geographical regions. If you can find five geneticists who take them seriously, I'll be surprised.
I agree with the other posts in this thread. Some people have developed a knee jerk reaction to hearing the word "racism." They'll immediately clamor to defend the accused racist, and attempt to convince everyone that no racism took place. I'm not really sure why.
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You may not have intended the reader to make a Marty Stu connection, but virtually everyone else has. Here's an example of a pretty good review that covers the highlights.
http://xodiac.fo.cx/rev/view.php?bookid=996
Most rational folks would see a mostly Marty Stu main character, and the rest of the book being essentially a commentary on how you think the War on Terror should be run.
I gather your live fire exercises weren't green third world troops, still learning their systems and equipment? There's a mild difference between trained soldiers that have been around the block a few times and green recruits. I was generally taught crawl, walk, run. Throwing "newbies" into the run stage rarely worked out as well as expected.
I never considered RSO's as a "shadow chain of command", but extra set of eyes that has nothing else on their plate but ensure no one was about to die unnecessarily. Calling RSO's a shadow chain of command is kinda insane at best. I'm quite sure there are bad RSO's that "confuse" troops and make things unsafe, they obviously need either training or a different slot. The ROLE of RSO should be to facilitate training while improving.
They can do that. Nothing to be done about it. And if they want to do that, meh, No skin off my underendowment.
Where did you see that they were still learning their equipment? Oh, that's right, you didn't because, instead of reading the book you decided to rely on heavily redacted hit pieces (though I liked Doug's review, at least, told him so, and advertised his site on my conference on Baen's Bar).
You can consider it what you like. What I consider it is immoral, unethical, cowardly putting up of mere forms, entirely for purposes of CYA, while a) increasing the danger for the troops, mistraining the troops, and c) undermining their confidence in their own chain of command, hence further mistraining the entire unit. I do, in fact, know of people killed because there was a second, shadow chain of command. 2/34 Infantry, circa 1983, Fort Stewart. In effect, when you make them responsible they will take responsibility. They will give orders. They will have the troops guessing who the hell they're supposed to listen to. If you haven't seen that then you haven't been paying attention.
Just out of curiosity, what's your MOS, your units, and your general level of experience? Who knows, it may, in theory, exceed mine.
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I never considered RSO's as a "shadow chain of command", but extra set of eyes that has nothing else on their plate but ensure no one was about to die unnecessarily. Calling RSO's a shadow chain of command is kinda insane at best. I'm quite sure there are bad RSO's that "confuse" troops and make things unsafe, they obviously need either training or a different slot. The ROLE of RSO should be to facilitate training while improving.
I thought you need to be shitbag NCO or Officer to become a RSO.
Army NCO current !
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I thought you need to be shitbag NCO or Officer to become a RSO.
Army NCO current !
Don't know what kinda outfit you're in, but we don't put shitbags on RSO duty here.
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I thought you need to be shitbag NCO or Officer to become a RSO.
Army NCO current !
True story, somewhat related.
In 83 there was, shall we say, a rifle company exec, running company deliberate attack LFXs for 3/5 in Panama. A range control CJ-5 (I think it was) pulls up. "Sir, you have to shut down your range." "Why is that, sergeant?" "Because you've lost commo with range control. You have to shut down until it's reestablished." "I see. Tell me, Sergeant, does that motorola on your belt work?" "Ummm..yessir." "Good. Stand at attention. I now have flawless commo with range control."
Only place I've ever heard of you could get away with something like that.
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True story, somewhat related.
In 83 there was, shall we say, a rifle company exec, running company deliberate attack LFXs for 3/5 in Panama. A range control CJ-5 (I think it was) pulls up. "Sir, you have to shut down your range." "Why is that, sergeant?" "Because you've lost commo with range control. You have to shut down until it's reestablished." "I see. Tell me, Sergeant, does that motorola on your belt work?" "Ummm..yessir." "Good. Stand at attention. I now have flawless commo with range control."
Only place I've ever heard of you could get away with something like that.
Yeah... that company XO was a turd. Rather than re-establish commo, he decides to be a dick to some E-5 just because he can?
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Don't know what kinda outfit you're in, but we don't put shitbags on RSO duty here.
Making them great, fantastic, peerless folks doesn't actually help. They're responsible. They suffer career death if there's a shooting. So they take charge. They take charge even if they're morally courageous enough to suffer career death in a good cause. They take charge because they've been made responsible. And the effect is, on the whole, bad. And needlessly dangerous. Hence immoral.
It's a bit like walk-crawl-run for a live fire. By the time the troops have done three non-fires and seven blank fires at slow speed, then another six blank fires at a faster speed, when they finally do it with live ammunition they're not running. They're still crawling, only they're crawling on a moving sidewalk. Any real training benefit was lost 11 renditions prior.
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Yeah... that company XO was a turd. Rather than re-establish commo, he decides to be a dick to some E-5 just because he can?
How did the E-5 get dicked? ANd are you sure, since you were not there, that he did it to dick the sergeant rather than, say, to keep training going? And are you sure that the sergeant, who, by the way. was smiling, didn't understand and approve, being very happy to have done his duty and then have the officer volunteer to take the blame if something went wrong?
Also, since you were not there, are you sure re-establishing commo and stopping the exercise until then was practical, what with 150 men spread out over 4 klicks of jungle?
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Enough is enough is enough.
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Everyone take a step back, take two deep breaths, and chill. Mr. Kratman if you'd like to hang around and peruse APS, feel free. But barging in and pissing in the punch bowl is bad form.
This thread is locked.
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Stepping in here just to say a few words.
1. Mr. Kratman - Welcome to APS! It is my understanding you found this forum via Google Alerter. That's neat, but I do invite you to explore the rest of the forum and not limit yourself to just this thread. It sounds like you could add value and insight.
2. We're human here. We may at time devolve into the petty and offensive, but as a whole, it's a good-natured gaggle representing a very diverse slice of humanity with all sorts of differing opinions and beliefs. Somehow we still manage to make it work at APS.
3. Whenever in doubt, remember the forum's name is Armed Polite Society. Firearm ownership isn't mandatory for members (we can fix that in time), but politeness is. The diversity of the forum means one must always consider their audience when posting.
4. Godwin's Law has been, and shall remain, in effect. I like the fact that this particular thread has stabilized without mentioning Mrs. Schicklgruber's son anymore. We don't need that, one can go to ARFCOM for such silliness.
5. Might I request this thread get back to the original topic? To preclude thread veer, we can always have an Army thread open up elsewhere. Or not, I'm flexible, being retired Air Force and all... ;)