Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Stand_watie on September 24, 2013, 05:27:19 PM
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On Cspan now... [popcorn]
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What are they filibustering? I've been out of the political loop for a bit.
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What are they filibustering? I've been out of the political loop for a bit.
Funding the government without defunding obamacare.
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"Oh, but we passed a LAW!"
To which I respond that Congress has passed a law mandating a complete border fence what, 7, 8 times? Yet Congress refuses to fund it.
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"Oh, but we passed a LAW!"
To which I respond that Congress has passed a law mandating a complete border fence what, 7, 8 times? Yet Congress refuses to fund it.
There you go again, with that pesky logic stuff ...
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If Ted Cruz, Rand Paul and Mike Lee wanted, they could each take 8 hour shifts and keep it going until Harry Reid cried uncle.
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Senator Lee (D) of Utah admitted that the filibuster is a fraud - yes, I said (D). I was talking about his political leanings not his political party.
It was prearranged to last for 30 hours after which there will be a vote on cloture. Lee said that if only Reid would allow a fair and open vote on the bill now that the filibuster would end. In other words, the Republicans, including Lee (D) of Utah, are ready to sell us out but they're just waiting to get a chance to put on a good show first.
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If Ted Cruz, Rand Paul and Mike Lee wanted, they could each take 8 hour shifts and keep it going until Harry Reid cried uncle.
Did you hear Lee (D) of Utah on Hannity tonight? He's not committed to this at all. He just wants a way out.
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Did you hear Lee (D) of Utah on Hannity tonight? He's not committed to this at all. He just wants a way out.
No, but I heard about it from some guy named Levant. =|
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If Ted Cruz, Rand Paul and Mike Lee wanted, they could each take 8 hour shifts and keep it going until Harry Reid cried uncle.
Do it do it do it do it do it do it
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Well, in spite of Cruz's heroic efforts, it looks like we're going to lose this in the Senate. The Republicans are now saying that they did what they could and lost and if we will just vote more of them in in 2014 they will repeal it in 2015.
I'm voting Democratic. I'll vote for Hillary before I vote for any Republican - except Cruz. I'll not vote for another Republican until the Republicans no longer exist. What do we lose by voting for a Democrat when the Republicans are Democrat wannabees?
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It's not a true filibuster.
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Well, in spite of Cruz's heroic efforts, it looks like we're going to lose this in the Senate. The Republicans are now saying that they did what they could and lost and if we will just vote more of them in in 2014 they will repeal it in 2015.
I'm voting Democratic. I'll vote for Hillary before I vote for any Republican - except Cruz. I'll not vote for another Republican until the Republicans no longer exist. What do we lose by voting for a Democrat when the Republicans are Democrat wannabees?
Find a primary candidate that supports Cruz or Paul and support them with your vote and money if necessary. That is probably the best thing you can do.
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The only way you get rid of the McCain/Graham style Senators is by forcing incumbents into expensive primary campaigns that take a year to win prior to the final 90 day push between the Statist-D and Statist-R runoff that never really matters anyways.
(Says the guy from AZ who is still encumbered with McCain... but we try!)
I'll be renewing my pledge not to vote at all come local 2013 referendums as well as mid-term 2014. It's already irking me... I'm seeing a bunch of tax hike "for the chilluns" and "moar police!" posters and I just want to flip out and start putting up a bunch of hand-made signs right next to these polished, mealymouthed duplicitous tax raising signs that are funded by government employee unions, and call them out directly for the thugs they are.
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Did Ted Cruz capitulate?
THis is from a CNN breaking news email:
The Senate voted unanimously today to move ahead on a spending plan needed to avoid a government shutdown next week.
Republicans, including Sen. Ted Cruz, unexpectedly reversed themselves after previously trying to block the measure over their objection to spending for Obamacare.
Cruz talked on the Senate floor for more than 21 hours, trying to prevent the Senate from taking up the spending measure. The GOP-controlled House passed the plan last week, but added a measure that would have cut all money for Obamacare. The Democratic-controlled Senate plans to strip out that measure.
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Sean Duffy ✔ @RepSeanDuffy
House agrees to send #CR to Senate that defunds Obamacare. @SenTedCruz & @SenMikeLee refuse to fight. Wave white flag and surrender.
4:45 PM - 18 Sep 2013
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http://politix.topix.com/news/8029-republicans-turn-on-ted-cruz-wendy-davis-has-more-balls
Cruz spent the summer persuading House Republicans to attach DEFUNDING OBAMACARE to the continuing resolution (CR) to fund the government, and Cruz himself personally promised to shepherd the defund Obamacare measure through the Senate.
On Wednesday, when Boehner had finally capitulated to Cruz et al and created a bill that attached defunding Obamacare to the CR, Cruz appeared to throw all of his House allies under the bus. He basically admitted that he had given up on the House measure because it would have no chance in the Senate.
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There are no elected or electable politicians that deserve to be in office. The vote is in the primary. THrow out as many as you can. Switch parties to leverage the best opportunities to throw out any and all.
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Okay, everyone calm down.
The Senate voted 100-0 to move forward on the bill the house passed. Ted Cruz is simply acknowledging that Harry Reid has the ability to strip out the Defund Obamcare language from the bill.
http://news.msn.com/us/cruz-ends-talkathon-senate-advances-spending-bill?ocid=ansnews11&stay=1
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/09/26/tennessee-senator-calls-ted-cruz-out-for-turning-senate-vote-into-a-show/
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Sean Duffy ✔ @RepSeanDuffy
House agrees to send #CR to Senate that defunds Obamacare. @SenTedCruz & @SenMikeLee refuse to fight. Wave white flag and surrender.
4:45 PM - 18 Sep 2013
Can you translate this to English please? I don't read Twit-er so I'm not sure WTF he's saying.
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Okay, everyone calm down.
The Senate voted 100-0 to move forward on the bill the house passed. Ted Cruz is simply acknowledging that Harry Reid has the ability to strip out the Defund Obamcare language from the bill.
http://news.msn.com/us/cruz-ends-talkathon-senate-advances-spending-bill?ocid=ansnews11&stay=1
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/09/26/tennessee-senator-calls-ted-cruz-out-for-turning-senate-vote-into-a-show/
No, he didn't just acknowledge that Reid had the votes. He voted with Reid. He filibustered without filibustering. He put on a show to pretend he is a conservative without actually disrupting the progress of the bill one bit and then voted for it. I'll be voting for democrats. They're honest in that they admit their socialists. The Republicans need to go.
Can you translate this to English please? I don't read Twit-er so I'm not sure WTF he's saying.
What part of Td Cruz and Mike Lee refuse to fight and that they waived the white flag and surrendered did you not understand?
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Can you translate this to English please? I don't read Twit-er so I'm not sure WTF he's saying.
Sean Duffy ✔ @RepSeanDuffy
House agrees to send [continuing resolution] to Senate that defunds Obamacare. [Senator Ted Cruz & Senator Mike Lee] refuse to fight. Wave white flag and surrender.
4:45 PM - 18 Sep 2013
Number signs and at signs are used to draw more specific attention to topics (#) and other users (@) on Twitter and other blogs.
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Now Cruz, Lee, Paul can all say they were against it before they voted for it.
http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-250_162-646435.html
Kerry complicated matters with his now infamous words, "I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it."
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Help me here.
What possible tactic do you think should have been pursued?
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Refusing to vote for it would be a good start....even if they didn't vote at all.
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Here's my understanding.
Cruz could only speak for 21 hours. The Senate had long ago decided that they would adjourn at a certain time. When they came back in session Cruz no longer had the floor. A vote was taken on whether to move forward to debate the bill.
100-0
Cruz then began the real filibuster. A vote for cloture (requires 60 votes) was taken. Cruz, Paul, Lee lose the cloture vote 79-19, because the "Go-along-to-get-along" Stupid Party listens to the press and not the people. They then vote along party lines to strip the "Defund Obamacare" language out, and then again vote 54-44 to pass the bill. So 25 Republicans who could have and should have voted against cloture (to stop the bill) instead went along so as not to appear mean to the press, but then voted against the final bill so they can go home and say they "voted" against Obamacare.
It's those 25 R's (and the 54 D's) that sold us out. Not Ted Cruz. He knew Wednesday/Thursday that he didn't have the votes to keep the debate and filibuster going.
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Refusing to vote for it would be a good start....even if they didn't vote at all.
Thank you. Instead, the President got the message that the vote is 100 to 0. He should have gotten a vote that it was 55 to 45. I can't put it into words how much I disrespect all Republicans in the Senate - especially Rand, Cruz, Lee - who pretended to lead a fight against Obamacare, and my own two Oklahoma senators who have turned their back on us.
In fact, the Senate and the house have always wanted Obamacare - since Obamacare is nothing more than lining the pockets of insurance companies and reducing the risk in their insurance pools by requiring younger, healthy, people to join the pool and offset the expense of the old and infirm. Any show to the contrary in the House or Senate is simply camera fodder.
Now all the talking heads and the Senate are saying to let Obamacare go into effect and let the worst happen and then they will clean it up. Well,l we don't elect them to destroy the economy and pass new laws restricting more freedoms and giving more socialist welfare to faux capitalist corporations. We elect them to prevent this stuff from happening in the first place.
If you remember, the Republicans could have killed Obamacare in the finance committee of the Senate. In fact, the bill that went into that committee was completely different from what came out. But the faux appeasers in the Republican party pretended that they opposed it but they wanted to let it out on the floor so there would be a public record of who voted for it. What the truth is, and has always been, is that both parties have supported the Insurance Company Welfare Act and the Republicans only pretend to object but alway stop short of anything that would actually interfere.
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Thank you. Instead, the President got the message that the vote is 100 to 0. He should have gotten a vote that it was 55 to 45. I can't put it into words how much I disrespect all Republicans in the Senate - especially Rand, Cruz, Lee - who pretended to lead a fight against Obamacare, and my own two Oklahoma senators who have turned their back on us.
IIRC, he didn't vote for the bill, he voted to move it to the floor. It was only then that he could speak against it. He did try to stop it (with Paul and Lee), however then the vote to end debate (eg, the filibuster) was taken he lost 71-19.
Had he not voted to move to the floor for debate, we would not be allowed to speak for or against it.
But go ahead with your conspiracy theory. Insurance companies hate Obamacare because they know that they will lose money. Why do you think rates have gone up? Because they now have to pay out at least 85% on claims (before, the industry average was 75-80%) to that's a big hit to their bottom line. Think if you had to take a 5-10% pay cut.
Plus they actually expect to lose quite few customers. Look at all the companies dumping their healthcare. Lots of people will end up paying the tax/fine and not getting insurance, because it'll be "cheaper" in the short term. Uncle Sugar will pick up their tab at the hospital because they paid the tax/fine.
The entire thing will be an unmitigated disaster, and I predict a couple insurers will go out of the business and people will cheer that another big evil insurance company has gone out of business while they die waiting in long lines for .gov provided healthcare.
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Lots of people will end up paying the tax/fine and not getting insurance, because it'll be "cheaper" in the short term. Uncle Sugar will pick up their tab at the hospital because they paid the tax/fine.
The entire thing will be an unmitigated disaster, and I predict a couple insurers will go out of the business and people will cheer that another big evil insurance company has gone out of business while they die waiting in long lines for .gov provided healthcare.
One quibble. It will also be cheaper in the long term since insurance cannot exclude pre-existing conditions. So, wait till you are actually sick to get insurance is a good long term plan, too.
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Thanks, I forgot that part. That's what will finally drive all the insurance companies under and then we'll all get "Free" government healthcare.
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Looks like Senate rejected the bill, and the House is now supposed to come up with a replacement.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/sep/30/shutdown-showdown-senate-kills-house-spending-bill/
Let's go, shutdown!
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If you don't understand the differrence between voting for cloture and voting for a bill maybe you shouldn't be offering up commentary.
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A pretty good diagram of how it went down. Considering it's from the NYT it's actually shocking that they got it right.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/09/30/us/politics/the-back-and-forth-over-the-shutdown.html?_r=2&