Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: MechAg94 on October 23, 2013, 11:43:45 AM
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http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2013/10/u-s-supreme-court-will-decide-firearms-straw-purchaser-case/
I saw this elsewhere and thought I would bring it to this forum. It is an interesting case, but I don't know if it will go well or not. It seems the case is based on what the definition of "straw purchaser" is in the original law. I have no idea what previous court precedent is on the subject. I never heard of a case like this coming up for appeal in recent years.
Honestly, straw purchasing is one of those things I had never really questioned. It certainly is something that ought to be changed.
“Attorneys for Abramski sought to have the indictment dismissed on the legal premise that because Abramski and the uncle were both legally entitled to purchase a firearm, Abramski could not be a ‘straw purchaser.’ Attorneys further argued that Abramski’s ‘yes’ answer to question 11(a) on the 4473 that he was actual buyer of the Glock was never intended to be punished under the Gun Control Act of 1968 if the buyer had a legal right to purchase the weapon. The attorneys theorized that the intent of Congress in passing this Act was ‘to make it possible to keep firearms out of the hands of those not legally entitled to possess them.’
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This is one of those cases that terrifies me. Paper-crime that can ruin a person's life, even when the secondary transfer WENT THROUGH AN FFL! :mad:
Probably would have been better off just driving to PA and giving the gun to his uncle directly. Feds be damned, this was probably caught by a bored ATF agent in PA who had nothing better to do than pore over 4473's looking for any case to manufacture from thin air.
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Sucks for him, but I'd be very glad for a SCOTUS ruling on the matter. Straw purchasing is a very subjective matter. If I buy a gun, fire it, decide I don't like it, and want to get rid of it, how long do I wait to sell it before it is not a straw purchase in the eyes of a BATFE agent wanting to up his performance numbers?
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And here I thought a "straw purchase" was when someone who was legally qualified to buy a gun took $$ from someone who was not able to buy a gun and bought the gun for said unqualified person.
Did BATF change the definition (again?)? ???
That agency needs to be SHUT DOWN bad.
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So how did they find out? I do not think it likely some sharp eyed zealous ATF person was poring through paper records. The logical thing is that a name or serial number got flagged by computer because of repeat activity in a short time span.
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And here I thought a "straw purchase" was when someone who was legally qualified to buy a gun took $$ from someone who was not able to buy a gun and bought the gun for said unqualified person.
Did BATF change the definition (again?)? ???
That agency needs to be SHUT DOWN bad.
No, a straw purchase is when "You're buying the firearm for another person". Qualified or unqualified doesn't allegedly matter.
And no, it doesn't. If the FBI got the BATFE duties, we'd have a harder time lobbying against their actions.
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No, a straw purchase is when "You're buying the firearm for another person". Qualified or unqualified doesn't allegedly matter.
Gift ???
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Gift ???
Exactly what I was thinking. My father bought me my first .22 pistol. Ruger MKII (still have it).
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No, a straw purchase is when "You're buying the firearm for another person". Qualified or unqualified doesn't allegedly matter.
True, with the exception of purchasing a firearm as a gift:
Where a person purchases a firearm with the intent of making a gift of the firearm to another person, the person making the purchase is indeed the true purchaser. There is no straw purchaser in these instances.
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The whole thing is a crock. It's personal property, if I want to sell it and the guy buying it can legally own a gun, then daddy gov can keep their nose out of it.
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Exactly what I was thinking. My father bought me my first .22 pistol. Ruger MKII (still have it).
My mom bought me the same gun and I still have it. I told her what I wanted, she just had to buy it, but this was way back in 87.
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I thought it was fine if given to a relative?
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Buying to "Give" to another person is not a straw purchase.
Buying to "sell" to another person is a straw purchase.
I can't believe even the BATF would be STUPID enough to bring such a lame case to trial. Glad the case is being heard.
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Buying to "sell" to another person is a straw purchase.
Is that a straw purchase or dealing guns without a license?
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Should clarify things for C&R FFL holders, too.
("Being in the business")
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They are prosecuting this crap when each and everyday gangbangers in Chicago caught with guns (and without a FOID) literally run through the justice system with no more then a slap on the wrist?
Meanwhile, Mayor Rahm Emanual pushes for a minimum three year jail sentence for illegal possession/carry of firearms. However this law would exempt those under 17 (Unable to obtain a FOID with parental permission). Yes. now all the gangbangers will simply have those 17 and younger do their drive-by for them. BRILLIANT !!!!
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Unless the gun was paid for by a check made out by the uncle, how in the world can they prove a straw purchase, especially if the transfer (from Abramski to his uncle) went through an FFL in the uncle's state?
There's nothing here. Seriously.
If they're stretching both the intent and the letter of the law this far out of shape . . . just think about all the "illegal straw purchases" made when a kid saves up his money to buy a gun, but Dad has to complete paperwork for the actual purchase because Junior is under 18. (I'm sure many of us are aware of this exact scenario.)
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The other question the court has to ask is What does the original law banning "straw purchases" say? Does it define the term or has the ATF simply defined it for themselves?
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Feds be damned, this was probably caught by a bored ATF agent in PA who had nothing better to do than pore over 4473's looking for any case to manufacture from thin air.
I will try and find the link, but I believe one of the people involved was accused of robbing the bank and they could not prove it. As is typical with federal prosecutions, they throw everything they can at a defendant and this is what stuck.