Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: vaskidmark on November 01, 2013, 08:03:47 AM
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Someone slip BSL some Valium before she reads this.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/O/OR_SHEEPDOGS_SHOT_OROL-?SITE=ORMED&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
BEND, Ore. (AP) -- A retired Oregon State Police trooper and his brother have been sentenced to probation and ordered to pay $500 fines after pleading no contest to charges stemming from the killing of three Great Pyrenees sheepdogs in the Ochoco National Forest.
The Bulletin newspaper of Bend reports ( http://is.gd/xoHiRG ) that Craig and Paul Johnson shot the dogs in August 2012 while hunting elk. ....
But wait - it gets worse.
http://www.bendbulletin.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20131029/NEWS01/310290373/1001/NEWS01&nav_category=NEWS01#
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In court, the brothers claimed they shot the dogs because they were chasing elk, were aggressive toward them, and that they never saw the band of about 1,000 sheep grazing nearby, Vitolins said. “They then blamed the victim, Gordon Clark," Vitolins said.
She said the brothers faulted Clark for failing to post the proper signs that his flock was grazing nearby and for failing to properly mark the dogs and keep them close to the flock. Clark and Vitolins said the sheep owner had posted signs.
A call to Paul Johnson was not returned Monday. A number for Craig Johnson was disconnected.
Contacted at their hunting camp Aug. 27, 2012, by sheriff’s Deputy Brian Bottoms, Craig Johnson said the “dogs screwed up their hunt by chasing the elk out of the area," Bottoms wrote in his report. “‘Quite frankly, we were going to shoot every one of them,’ meaning what they believed to be the wild dogs that they saw."
The two, at first, allowed Bottoms to leave the camp without telling the deputy they knew anything about the shootings, according to the deputy. When Bottoms returned later in the day, Craig Johnson owned up to the shootings, the deputy wrote. “Craig also informed me it was not until I had mentioned the sheepherders guard dogs were shot that his heart sank, and he knew at that time they had screwed up," Bottoms’ report states.
Attorney Jon Springer, of Bend, said Monday he’s known Craig Johnson “the better part of 30 years." Springer represented the former trooper on the shooting charges. “I find Craig Johnson to be one of the most honest people I’ve ever met in my life," Springer said. “When he came to me, telling me this is the story, I believed him."
If that's the most honest person lawyer Springer has met in his life, :facepalm:
The dogs were chasing elk out of the area. The dogs were not attacking the elk, trying to bring them down. And the day was ruined for these two intrepid hunters, so they got even. Where is the I'm-gonna-beat-you-with-a-baseball-bat smiley? " :mad: " just does not convey my thoughts adequately.
stay safe.
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I'm at a loss for words.
That Shepherd is a calmer man then I for sure.
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Never mind. Can't post what my opinion is. Suffice it to say, I'm not at all surprised at the actions of these badged idiots
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three dogs down, who's watching the sheep now?
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Seems cops don't like "sheepdogs" too much. Gosh, I would have never have guessed.
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Ive seen hunters think its hilarious to shoot any dog they come across.
Trespassing poachers will shoot landowners dogs that are just out on their property, too.
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Thats a good way to disappear
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BEND, Ore. (AP) -- A retired Oregon State Police trooper and his brother have been sentenced to probation and ordered to pay $500 fines after pleading no contest to charges stemming from the killing of three Great Pyrenees sheepdogs in the Ochoco National Forest.
The Bulletin newspaper of Bend reports ( http://is.gd/xoHiRG ) that Craig and Paul Johnson shot the dogs in August 2012 while hunting elk. ....
So they paid fines to the state? The state isn't the one who was damaged by the actions.
Can't a judge order restitution to the owner for his loss, or will he have to hire a lawyer and sue for his losses, which are about $400 or so each for puppies, which will require some training? That would be worth some $$ as well. Unless the offenders could be forced to pay his legal fees the rancher is screwed.
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^^^^with the cost of training? that wont be cheap.
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What is the law on this sort of thing?
Say this happened to your dog that had a massive time investment into training for what it does (herding, hunting, whatever) and you ended up suing. Are damages limited to the cost of the dog, or is the training and associated expenses compensated too? If you did all the training yourself, it is not like you could come up with receipts.
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What is the law on this sort of thing?
Say this happened to your dog that had a massive time investment into training for what it does (herding, hunting, whatever) and you ended up suing. Are damages limited to the cost of the dog, or is the training and associated expenses compensated too? If you did all the training yourself, it is not like you could come up with receipts.
Some dogs are more equal than others ;)
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What is the law on this sort of thing? . . .
Laws vary from one state to another; here's a table: http://www.animallaw.info/articles/arusdogschasewildlifetable.htm
Here's what it says about Oregon:
No person shall hunt or trap on a wildlife refuge. A dog found unlawfully hunting or tracking any game mammal or bird (subject to specific enumerated hunting provisions) may be killed if not licensed and wearing a collar or if while wearing a collar, the owner is notified and the dog continues to hunt or track the game animal.
IANAL, but I take this to mean you can't shoot a dog that's licensed and wearing a collar, even if it is hunting or tracking game, unless you notify the owner first; an UN-collared dog chasing game would seem to be a legal target. And you can't just shoot any dog just because he's out and about unless he's chasing game. The reference to "hunting provisions" may include specifics for certain types of hunting with dogs (Birds for sure - maybe mountain lions, too?) which may or may not apply to elk and deer.
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Stock Guardians require much less training then hunting and herding dogs. Much of what they do is instinctual rather then learned.
However, good stock guardians can be worth quiet a bit more then $400.
I'm not even going to bother to comment on this incident, as there really is nothing that hasn't already been said.
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I see messages on gun boards all the time
by hunters claiming to shoot any dog on sight while they are hunting. :mad:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=9124740&postcount=147
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Ive seen hunters think its hilarious to shoot any dog they come across.
Trespassing poachers will shoot landowners dogs that are just out on their property, too.
I have never understood why there isn't an open season on poachers.
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I have never understood why there isn't an open season on poachers.
Or for people who go around shooting other peoples dogs.
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I'm really surprised that GP's would be chasing game instead of staying with the sheep =|
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I'm really surprised that GP's would be chasing game instead of staying with the sheep =|
They'll chase off anything that isn't stock.
An owner told us about how her Anatolian was protecting his paddock from intruding turtles. She had to walk the feild and pick up all the empty turtle shells everytime she mowed.
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They'll chase off anything that isn't stock.
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That makes sense but I don't think they would chase too far away from the herd.
I don't have much tolerance for stray dogs especially in packs. There was a pack running around here a while back and killing chickens, etc. Lots of people shot at them but I never saw them on our place. I assume someone finally connected (without mentioning it ;) ) because they suddenly seemed to no longer be running about.
But you sorta hope people are smart enough to tell livestock guard dogs from the feral dogs that are harassing the herd :facepalm:
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Or for people who go around shooting other peoples dogs.
Aggressive dogs on my property no matter it's size are fair game.
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Aggressive dogs on my property no matter it's size are fair game.
Yeah, but aggressive dogs on their property are not.
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Yeah, but aggressive dogs on their property are not.
^^^ This....
....come on my property and mess with my dogs, and you'll see that their master bites hardest of all.
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Wva about 1980 a guy killed neighbors dog , outa meaness. Next afternoon he got shot in his driveway in front of witnesses. Shooter walked
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But you sorta hope people are smart enough to tell livestock guard dogs from the feral dogs that are harassing the herd :facepalm:
That's your problem, right there.
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Wva about 1980 a guy killed neighbors dog , outa meaness. Next afternoon he got shot in his driveway in front of witnesses. Shooter walked
As he should have.
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I used to tolerate loose single dogs wandering around my little farm until one day we came home from a day trip and I noticed a bunch of white spots in the pasture. They were 12 of our free-ranging chickens and one rooster, dead, just lying there.
It wasn't as if a fox or coyote grabbed a quick meal and ran off to feed on his kill, I doubt if I would have even noticed one missing bird. These kills were for sport.
After that, I would not allow a dog unaccompanied by a human on the property. I relied on the state regs on uncontrolled dogs harassing livestock.
It was S, S, and S from then on.
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Yeah, but aggressive dogs on their property are not.
I'm only referring to dogs that have left the bounds of their property.