Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Monkeyleg on December 09, 2013, 07:18:31 PM
-
My mind is so rattled today that I can't seem to think straight. Today was just one problem after another.
I had a customer order an EOTech sight back on 11/29. It shipped on 12/2, and the postal service website shows it was delivered on 12/4. The customer said he didn't receive it. I asked him to ask neighbors, friends, family and the postal delivery person about it. He called me to say that the postman said he'd delivered the package to the doorstep on 12/4. He remembers it.
I told the customer I wasn't sure if my insurance would pay for theft of the package after it was delivered, and that I would check. I contacted my agent, and he said the insurance company would likely pay, but he couldn't be 100% certain. We have to wait three weeks from the date of shipping before filing a claim, though. If they pay, it won't be until after the first of the year.
I called the customer to say that I had some potentially good news, that being that the insurance company would most likely pay for his stolen package. I then told him about the wait, and he was unhappy. He wants to get a replacement sight now.
If I send him a new sight, I front the money. If the insurance company doesn't pay, I doubt very much he's going to return the sight. It would be used anyway.
There's no doubt at all that the package was delivered, and I don't feel that I can be responsible for the security of his home.
I don't know what to do with this guy. Any suggestions?
-
My mind is so rattled today that I can't seem to think straight. Today was just one problem after another.
I had a customer order an EOTech sight back on 11/29. It shipped on 12/2, and the postal service website shows it was delivered on 12/4. The customer said he didn't receive it. I asked him to ask neighbors, friends, family and the postal delivery person about it. He called me to say that the postman said he'd delivered the package to the doorstep on 12/4. He remembers it.
I told the customer I wasn't sure if my insurance would pay for theft of the package after it was delivered, and that I would check. I contacted my agent, and he said the insurance company would likely pay, but he couldn't be 100% certain. We have to wait three weeks from the date of shipping before filing a claim, though. If they pay, it won't be until after the first of the year.
I called the customer to say that I had some potentially good news, that being that the insurance company would most likely pay for his stolen package. I then told him about the wait, and he was unhappy. He wants to get a replacement sight now.
If I send him a new sight, I front the money. If the insurance company doesn't pay, I doubt very much he's going to return the sight. It would be used anyway.
There's no doubt at all that the package was delivered, and I don't feel that I can be responsible for the security of his home.
I don't know what to do with this guy. Any suggestions?
Tell him to take it up with the carrier or his homeowners insurance. It's not your fault if it got stolen.
-
Ah yes, the two for the price of one scam.
Agree with Balog, and I'd consider getting a police report on the theft too.
-
Tell him to take it up with the carrier or his homeowners insurance. It's not your fault if it got stolen.
What Balog said.
-
Add me to the list of agreeing with Balog.
-
What all those guys said.
He may have had experience with the Amazon model. I don't know what kind of insurance they have, or deals they have with carriers, but if you report that a package showing "delivered" was not delivered to you, they immediately send out a replacement, and if the other package show up, they ask you to return it with a free shipping label.
That's very nice of them, but loss of the package isn't really their responsibility if they shipped it properly. It is generally the responsibility of both the carrier (to get it to the right address, if provided by the shipper), and the receiver (to ensure the package is left in a secure location or signed for). I had this happen to me a couple of times now with Amazon when they use OnTrac, the worst carrier in the business. The first time, I called OnTrac first. Their reps are very nice and helpful. The rep made the driver come to my house the very next day to talk to me. The driver swore he left the package at my front door, pointing to the corner where he left it. That's where OnTrac left me hanging and I called Amazon and they shipped a dupe order out overnight to me. Then two days later, a neighbor that had been out of town came by with the original shipment that the driver swore up and down he left on my front door. I live in a condo complex and I'm upstairs. The neighbor is cattycorner and downstairs.
I've never had a problem with any other carrier, just OnTrac (I think they are West Coast specific, they used to be California Overnight). I live in a very safe neighborhood, so I let the drivers just leave most of my packages until I get home. The only exception is expensive stuff, which I either route to my office, or get with "signature required". Signature required is usually initiated by the sender. Maybe you should institute that for your more expensive items (don't know if it costs you more)? The receiver, if they have a UPS or whoever account can override the sig requirement, but at least you would have documentation that puts the problem in their lap.
-
Tell him to take it up with the carrier or his homeowners insurance. It's not your fault if it got stolen.
What Balog said.
What charby said.
FWIW, there are LOTS of stories in the news this year about deliveries to residences being stolen off the doorsteps. Still not your problem.
-
Have him sign and send you an affidavit of loss, see if that scares him a bit.
My google fu is week right now but a generic can be found on the web.
-
Delivery conformation. Once you hand it off, it's not your problem.
I know as a small business owner that you don't want to tell your customer that but how much loss can you eat before you can't eat?
jim
-
He says thye carrier says it was delivered to his doorstep. He needs to take it up with the local Postmaster and the Postal Inspectors. Either postal regs allow for placing it in front of the door or the carrier took a shortcut that may cost him some time off if not his job.
If the customer has paid for insurance, HE is responsible for contacting the insurance carrier to initiate a claim. If YOU offer insurance, you need to inform your insurance vcarrier that the customer says the postal carrier said it was placed on the doorstep (or wherever) so they can decide if they will cover the loss or tell the customer to submit to his homeowner's insurance carrier.
Even though I am home a lot, I have a notice with the local post office to NOT deliver any package that cannot fit in my RFD-trype mailbox that is located across the street. They offer it and actually prefer not leaving big stuff on the ground next to the mailbox or getting out of the vehicle to pitch it at my door. I go collect my mail and there is a salmon-colored card telling me to go to the PO to pick up a package.
I purchase delivery tracking/notification as well as insurance whenever possible so I know when stuff is supposed to be showing up. The last thing I had "go missing" was a box of syringes sent by the VA Pharmacy (USPS delivery but they do not get tracking or insurance. When it was 2 weeks overdue I called. They said it was delivered. The carrier sort of didn't recall one way or the other. Between the VA Police and the Postal Inspectors some former neighbors down the street are still not enjoying themselves. (Hint - do not rip open the plastic envelope and throw it behind the bushes next to your front door.)
And IF it is going to be your insurance that pays, be sure they get their paperwork completed before sending him a "replacement". If he is trying to rip someorne off play the 2-for-the-price-of-1 game not purer than the proverbial driven snow he will have to commit a few felonies that involve folks besides you as victtims.
In other words, it is YOUR ass that needs to be covered in this. The customer is on his own. Caveat emptor and all that.
stay safe.
-
I'm going to print this thread out just as proof of so many people agreeing with me. :D
-
I'm going to print this thread out just as proof of so many people agreeing with me. :D
I never read what you wrote, so don't count me in that group.
stay safe.
-
Balog is wrong.
What he needs to do is take it up with the carrier or his homeowner's insurance. It's not your Fistful's fault if it got stolen.
-
What he needs to do is take it up with the carrier or his homeowner's insurance
I mentioned homeowners insurance, but he says he rents. Sort of like expecting the other party in an accident to pay because you don't have insurance because you drive a sub-compact.
-
I mentioned homeowners insurance, but he says he rents. Sort of like expecting the other party in an accident to pay because you don't have insurance because you drive a sub-compact.
"Renter's Insurance then".
-
I know. My wife and I had renters insurance when we got our first apartment. I couldn't afford something like an EOTech, but I could afford insurance. This guy has it bass ackwards.
-
And renter's insurance is dirt dirt dirt cheap.
-
Send him a...replacement...
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimgs.xkcd.com%2Fcomics%2Fa-minus-minus.png&hash=0409d11814dca68a914f30f466a36cdacb2263b8)
-
Send him a...replacement...
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimgs.xkcd.com%2Fcomics%2Fa-minus-minus.png&hash=0409d11814dca68a914f30f466a36cdacb2263b8)
Reminds me of this story from LawDog (http://thelawdogfiles.blogspot.se/2007/01/csi-barditch-county.html).
-
And renter's insurance is dirt dirt dirt cheap.
$19 a month through Liberty Mutual, $500 deductible.
You have confirmation of delivery. It's not your problem.
-
Hey, Dick? I got the EOTech I ordered, but the AR it was attached to has been stolen out of the box. How soon can you send me the replacement?
-
Going with the consensus.
If you did your part and handed off to the carrier, and the carrier did their part and delivered it, it's between him and the carrier or his insurance. If he doesn't have renters insurance, that's his fault for being an idiot.
-
I agree with the rest, but if you are inclined to do something for him make sure you have him sign an affidavit before you do anything else... you know since your insurance carrier requires it. Make sure to tell him to have it notarized, his bank should do that for free or a reduced price.
-
I agree with the rest, but if you are inclined to do something for him make sure you have him sign an affidavit before you do anything else... you know since your insurance carrier requires it. Make sure to tell him to have it notarized, his bank should do that for free or a reduced price.
Since the customer has acknowledged that the package was delivered, what makes you think Dick's insurance company would do anything? That which is not Dick's problem is also not his insurance company's problem.
People who can't afford tenant insurance should not be buying expensive toys and leaving them outside for other kids to play with.
-
While I would agree with the consensus, I do have some sympathy with the customer. I have had more bad shipping experiences with FedEx, UPS, and the USPS in the last year then I have ever had. I had a client call me and ask me why I sent her an empty envelope. I told her that it was supposed to contain some documents of hers. I initially thought she was lying, as she had been a somewhat problematic client. Two weeks later, the documents were found by the post office and returned to me with no kind of explanation. I have similar things happen with other carriers and don't really understand what is happening with them.
-
How likely is it that your insurance will pay off (and continue to in the future)?
How much do you not want this guy to bad mouth you on reviews?
I agree you did your part and this guy should FOAD, but HE obviously expects you to do something. Is not having him be irate all over the internet worth the cost of an EOTech to you?
You could also try to passive aggressively make him give up. Requiring he make a police report and provide you a copy prior to shipping him a replacement is reasonable, and many folks doing this as a scam won't want to be on record.
-
I agree you did your part and this guy should FOAD, but HE obviously expects you to do something. Is not having him be irate all over the internet worth the cost of an EOTech to you?
I think this is why Amazon does what they do. It may even be a way of being "self insured" for them and cheaper than having insurance to cover their volume. Amazon is a completely different business model though, from a privately owned small-business model like Monkeyleg's. I just don't think you could make the numbers work if you replaced every delivery loss.
It seems to me like most rational people would understand that once it gets into the shipper's hands, that the receiver should have some responsibility in providing a safe delivery location. Given that rational thinking is getting to be a scarce commodity, I do agree with you regarding the concern of this guy bad-mouthing Monkeyleg.
-
It's the bad-mouthing that concerns me.
My distributor says it's very likely the insurance company will pay, but it's not 100%. Sales have been absolutely terrible, and if I give the guy a replacement unit, and insurance doesn't pay, I've lost a good chunk of last month's profit. $400 is a good chunk of last month's profit. That's how bad it is.
This guy knew enough to go right to his credit card company after our first phone conversation and discuss a chargeback. I don't think most customers know what a chargeback is. He says he's a merchant, too, so if that's true he knows that a successful chargeback can raise my cost of processing credit cards. It's another way of threatening me.
I'm leaning towards getting him to submit the required letter for the insurance company, in which he has to give the date of order, date of shipment, tracking number, date of delivery, and state that the postman said that the package was delivered. I would write it for him, which I've done before, so I can include phrases such as "under threat of perjury". I would also tell him that I need a police report, so that he would be in all sorts of violations of the law if he's lying.
With demand having fallen drastically after the Obama bubble burst a couple of months ago, sales have been terrible. Traditional advertising sources haven't been working. There's a site call Slickguns.com where people post deals they find on gun stuff. Retailers can advertise deals on there, but only if they're really deals. So I've been creating coupon codes specifically for Slickguns, and reducing prices to the point where I'm making $10 on an EOTech, and under $100 on a $1500 ACOG. Some money is better than none.
The people who use Slickguns, though, will jump to a different retailer for $2. They're not the type of customer most retailers want.
For example, my distributor had a really, really busy day on 11/29. I had a whole bunch of EOTech orders, including one order for a $580 EOTech EXPS2-0 and two orders for $360 EOTech 512's. The distributor put the EXPS2-0 in one of the 512 boxes, and vice versa. The guy who got the 512 instead of the EXPS2-0 he paid for called immediately, of course, and I sent him another EXPS2-0 and set up a UPS pickup for the 512. I contacted the two guys who bought 512's, one of whom got the EXPS2-0, to see which one got the $580 sight. One guy said he got a 512. The other guy never replied to my email or to my phone calls. He got a real deal, and he's not giving it up.
-
Since the customer has acknowledged that the package was delivered, what makes you think Dick's insurance company would do anything? That which is not Dick's problem is also not his insurance company's problem.
People who can't afford tenant insurance should not be buying expensive toys and leaving them outside for other kids to play with.
I agree with you it isn't Dick's problem nor is it his insurance company's problem. What I was trying to get at, as never_retreat has stated, see if this guy really did lose it or is wanting the 2 for 1 deal. If he doesn't want to sign an affidavit then more than likely he is trying for the 2 for 1 deal and he can FOAD. If he goes through the hassle of signing it and sending it back to Dick then Dick can make up is mind as to what he wants to do.
-
Yep, Police report, notarized affidavit, USPS Postal Investigation case number. If he's willing jump through those hoops then he's probably telling the truth. If not. Then he's not.