Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: AJ Dual on December 13, 2013, 10:11:59 PM
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I'll be the first to admit, I'm not much of a 1911 guy... I prefer my HK USP's for fullsize autos and Glock 26 as my compact. I have one ho-hum Springfield Milspec that's almost still NIB. My grandfather had a 1911 stolen during fire repairs to his home in the early 2000's (I shudder to think of what exact 1911 it might have been... U.S. marked Colt? A Singer? Who knows?) and he got the Springfield milspec as it's insurance replacement and never used it. When he died in 2003 I inherited it.
However this could make me change my mind. http://www.recovertactical.com/
I'm thinking they should just go for the gold and integrate lights/lasers right in, since their design and control of the molds means they could put wiring and pressure pads/switches right into the grip, unless maybe Crimson Trace etc. has all the IP/patents sewn up.
It requires no permanent modifications. So don't hate too much. :angel:
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Same price and aesthetics as a pair of ugly, rubber and plastic, finger groove grips, but adds a rail. I could see it being very popular.
Would look very interesting on a Commander. :laugh:
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The word that immediately comes to mind is "fugly". But it does provide a way to add a rail.
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I find myself seriously tempted.
I like a lower profile grip, though, and those seem a little thick.
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In lima bean green? I am so there.
Seriously. does it work? Let the freakin' market decide.
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I find myself seriously tempted.
I like a lower profile grip, though, and those seem a little thick.
Me too. I was ready to go all fire and brimstone on your blasphemous asses over this adulteration to St. Browning's design, but that's pretty cool.
My EDC when I was young and more flexible was a double stack 1911, so that's not all that thick to me. The thicker grip really wasn't all that hard to conceal. It was the nine pound brick of ammo that really made me limp.
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That's actually pretty interesting. I agree with the fugly, but one of the things keeping me from using one of my 1911s as a nightstand gun is that none of mine have a rail. Something like that could do it for a gun I just kept in the house. I couldn't find any photos of the right side to see if it would clear an ambi safety. Fat grip wouldn't bother me and my long hands.
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Not pretty, but interesting.
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I'll be the first to admit, I'm not much of a 1911 guy... I prefer my HK USP's for fullsize autos and Glock 26 as my compact. I have one ho-hum Springfield Milspec that's almost still NIB. My grandfather had a 1911 stolen during fire repairs to his home in the early 2000's (I shudder to think of what exact 1911 it might have been... U.S. marked Colt? A Singer? Who knows?) and he got the Springfield milspec as it's insurance replacement and never used it. When he died in 2003 I inherited it.
However this could make me change my mind. http://www.recovertactical.com/
I'm thinking they should just go for the gold and integrate lights/lasers right in, since their design and control of the molds means they could put wiring and pressure pads/switches right into the grip, unless maybe Crimson Trace etc. has all the IP/patents sewn up.
It requires no permanent modifications. So don't hate too much. :angel:
Knock yourself out. I find it unsightly.
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Anything that doesn't require a permanent mod to the firearm could be fun to play with.
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Want a 1911 rail? Here you go: http://www.amazon.com/SureFire-X-Series-Adaptor-Mount-1911/dp/B001V2X8B4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1387009398&sr=8-2&keywords=1911+rail
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Want a 1911 rail? Here you go: http://www.amazon.com/SureFire-X-Series-Adaptor-Mount-1911/dp/B001V2X8B4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1387009398&sr=8-2&keywords=1911+rail
I found this review, uh, interesting.
I personally carry nothing but 1911s and in my daily carry I always carry two Para Ordnance P-14s.
Uh, ok. =|
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Want a 1911 rail? Here you go: http://www.amazon.com/SureFire-X-Series-Adaptor-Mount-1911/dp/B001V2X8B4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1387009398&sr=8-2&keywords=1911+rail
Not as ugly but almost twice the price.
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The word that immediately comes to mind is "fugly". But it does provide a way to add a rail.
There are other ways to add a rail to a 1911. http://ezine.m1911.org/Tick.htm
And that ... thing ... doesn't cover and retain the plunger tube the way the left-side grip panel is supposed to. Faulty design, showing that the creator doesn't understand 1911s.
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I found this review, uh, interesting.
Uh, ok. =|
He probably ankle carries them.
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Will never take off, because:
Holster.
You're changing the contour of the frame around the dust cover (making it much taller to accomodate the light rail) and on the face of the trigger guard, as well as thicker around the trigger guard and slide stop.
The light rail will not match up with the modern integrated rail designs, making compatibility with existing holster selections impossible.
It's a good idea, but pointless without holster support. You'd have to revert to a craptastic $10 gun show "one size fits none" style holster.
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I've seen several of these "add on" 1911 rails now. I've even shot a couple on friends pistols. The conclusion I've been forced to reach is that you really need to decide if you want a rail before you purchase the 1911. If you do there are several options from ~$500 to well I have yet to find the top end of 1911 prices. But there's railed 1911 options in every 1911 price range. You wouldn't buy a 2 wheel drive vehicle and try to convert it later. Of you CAN, but you shouldn't. Same with add on rails.
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Uggg...
No.
Just no.
You want to use your 1911 with a white light? Learn how to shoot with a flashlight.
You want rails, get something else.
*shudder*
(seriously, though, a 1911's countors make shooting,with one hand more then doable even with smaller hands. One reason I like 1911's so much is the grip profile. Once you take that away, well, you've lost a lot of what makes it good. I can find plenty of pistols with rails that will fit me fine, and if I want a rail I'll get one of those)
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And that ... thing ... doesn't cover and retain the plunger tube the way the left-side grip panel is supposed to. Faulty design, showing that the creator doesn't understand 1911s.
Good catch.
I've seen several of these "add on" 1911 rails now. I've even shot a couple on friends pistols. The conclusion I've been forced to reach is that you really need to decide if you want a rail before you purchase the 1911. If you do there are several options from ~$500 to well I have yet to find the top end of 1911 prices. But there's railed 1911 options in every 1911 price range. You wouldn't buy a 2 wheel drive vehicle and try to convert it later. Of you CAN, but you shouldn't. Same with add on rails.
IF you decide you want a rail BEFORE you get the gun, sure. It also allows one to remove the rail. That appeals to some.
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Good catch.
IF you decide you want a rail BEFORE you get the gun, sure. It also allows one to remove the rail. That appeals to some.
Also some of us old farts got our 1911s before there were 1911s with rails.
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No, hell no, and never.
I don't want a rail bad enough to ugly up a 1911.
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My Apple fanboy friend's favorite sneer comes to mind: bloatware (or should that be spelt "bloatwear?")
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Kill it with fire. One day I'll have a retarded looking 1911 with a funky modular grip, it's called an Infinity. Leave the standard one standard.
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IF you decide you want a rail BEFORE you get the gun, sure.
IF you decide you need a rail after you buy the gun, buy a new gun. Either replace or add to the collection. Don't try to half-a a basic feature of the frame. It's like (now I'm going to step in it) buying a Direct Impingement gun and bolting a gas piston to it.
It also allows one to remove the rail. That appeals to some.
Those people are wrong.
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IF you decide you need a rail after you buy the gun, buy a new gun.
'Cause everyone has plenty of cash laying around, and all 1911s are the same, so just buy another one.
I know you're trying to be realistic, here, and from a quality standpoint, you're right. No one ever said an add-on is as good as a built-in rail. But realistically, people might have perfectly good reasons to use the adapter gizmos. For example, if Bubba has a Colt that he's found to be dead-reliable for twenty years and 50,000 rounds, he may not be all that thrilled about trading it in on a new Rock Island that may not be as good.
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For those of us who have several 1911s, it may have some appeal.
I can see it as a nightstand gun. Pack the slick 1911 for CCW, keep the one with laser/phaser/wind speed indicator where it can be grabbed in the middle of the night as the dogs bark.
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Nope, don't like.
Its like Tapco for 1911s.
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For those of us who have several 1911s, it may have some appeal.
I can see it as a nightstand gun. Pack the slick 1911 for CCW, keep the one with laser/phaser/wind speed indicator where it can be grabbed in the middle of the night as the dogs bark.
That was my thought. Obviously I'm not a BTDT kind of guy for CCW use, but I'm always trying to minimize the bulk when carrying, not add to it. I'd rather carry a separate flashlight for nighttime CCW, especially since I often have need of a flashlight at night anyway, but have as of yet, not needed the gun. In the couple of classes I've taken, the instructors have always only taught flashlight use, and not one student in either class showed up with a mounted light. Guys like Flys320s, who have taken lots of classes, might have a different perspective.
As a nightstand gun on the other hand, I see a real value to only grabbing one item, or if I'm going to grab two, putting a phone in my other hand versus a light. Practicing with it, the TL4 light/laser combo works really well for me mounted on my PPQ, which is why I've been using it as my nightstand gun. When I CCW the PPQ though, the light comes off, as would an accessory rail on a 1911 if I went the route of the OP accessory.
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Nope, don't like.
Its like Tapco for 1911s.
good comparison.
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Nope, don't like.
Its like Tapco for 1911s.
I was thinking more along the lines that someone frakinsteined a 1911 slide to an altered HK frame, and we all lose.
:barf:
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I was thinking more along the lines that someone frakinsteined a 1911 slide to an altered HK frame, and we all lose.
:barf:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxxSIX3fmmo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxxSIX3fmmo)
The clamp on thing looks more like an XDM grip to me. Which if that's what one wants, that's what one should get.
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Given that we (and I mean gun people) have done just about everything else possible to "improve" the 1911, I fail to see the reason for a hue and cry over a replacement grip (and that's pretty much all it is) that allows one to mount something to front (like a light or laser). Why would anyone be against improving their gun. While ZOMG!!111 there aren't any holster for it (With or without a light). I remember reading recently on View from the Porch that Tam had ordered a Kydex holster that accommodated her EDC gun with it's new light on rail under the barrel. And IIRC, her EDC sure ain't a 1911.
I predict that before long someone will come up with way to make a Kydex holster for your 1911 with "Da railz" underneath !! "Just tell us what doo-dad(s) you've mounted and we'll ship you one before the plastic is even fully cooled !!!"
Plus I could see this a very useful additional to someone's bedside gun. Mount a flashlight to your 1911 and you too can go hunting for Brad and Mike knocking over the cast iron in your kitchen as they make chili and cornbread. :P
ETA: Tam's Post (http://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2013/11/the-light-bringer.html). Which lead me here (http://www.ravenconcealment.com/holsters/phantom-modular-holsters/phantom-light-compatible-holster).
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Given that we (and I mean gun people) have done just about everything else possible to "improve" the 1911, I fail to see the reason for a hue and cry over a replacement grip (and that's pretty much all it is) that allows one to mount something to front (like a light or laser). Why would anyone be against improving their gun. While ZOMG!!111 there aren't any holster for it (With or without a light).
Yeah, 'cause it could be a lot worse. It could be ivory grips.
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Plus I could see this a very useful additional to someone's bedside gun. Mount a flashlight to your 1911 and you too can go hunting for Brad and Mike knocking over the cast iron in your kitchen as they make chili and cornbread.
There are conflicting schools of thought about gun-mounted lights. Aside from the notion that a light is a convenient target for a bad guy so it's better to hold it at arm's length, there is also this quaint notion that you're not supposed to "cover" (point the muzzle of your firearm at) anything (anybody) you're not willing to destroy. Mount the light on your gun, and you MUST point the gun at whatever/whoever it is you intend to illuminate. If that happens to be your teenager sneaking in after a late date and you have a light trigger and clumsy fingers -- oh, well, the kid shouldn't have been sneaking in late -- that'll teach him/her. Oops.
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"There are conflicting schools of thought about gun-mounted lights."
Yes there are.
"Mount the light on your gun, and you MUST point the gun at whatever/whoever it is you intend to illuminate."
If you think that's how the light on your gun is supposed to work, you're in the wrong "School Of Thought". Turn in your flashlight and the gun it's screwed to, as well.
"I predict that before long someone will come up with way to make a Kydex holster for your 1911 with "Da railz" underneath !! Just tell use what doo-dad(s) you've mounted and we'll ship you one before the plastic is even fully cooled !!!"
That's not how that works, Scout26. If you have some off-the wall accessory for which a holster maker doesn't have a mold gun, you'll need to ship that accessory off to the holster maker so they can use it to mold a holster. Kydex is not a way around this.
FWIW, I think this accessory is goofy as the day is long, and is a way of fattening up a 1911 so it doesn't fit in a decent holster, just so you can put a flashlight on it. If someone wants a flashlight on their 1911, buy a railgun or a CTC lLightguard, don't try to cheap out with some crappy Tapco-esque accessory bandaid fix. This thing is the equivalent of an SKS with a plastic bipod on the bayo lug and a polymer 30-rounder.
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^^^What what what? The power of our snark grows! =D
Yeah, 'cause it could be a lot worse. It could be ivory grips.
Burn the witch warlock sock puppet!
I'd be all over some ivory grips if I had spare cash. Remember, MoP=pimptastic, not ivory.
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Scout: kydex must be form-fitted to not only the exact lines of the particular firearm... but also the flashlight (if a railed weapons light is intended to be attached while holstered).
There are dozens of weapons lights out there. But if you want to holster your pistol with one attached, you've got about 3 choices for light make/models. And maybe 5 choices for platforms. And better be right-handed.
This device exacerbates the problem of a proper holster to a degree that no one will ever make a holster for it. It does not fit the same dimensions as a proper Springfield Operator or similar standardized railed 1911. The light is mounted lower by a couple tenths of an inch. The railed portion of the body is wider by a couple tenths of an inch. The point where the kydex pinch-retains the pistol around the front of the trigger guard is different dimensions. Users of this product will never have holster compatibility with other common holsters for railed 1911's.
A buyer of this product is compelled to be happy with a craptastic gun-bucket holster from the guy selling SKS Tapco junk at the gun show.
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Burn the witch warlock sock puppet!
I'd be all over some ivory grips if I had spare cash. Remember, MoP=pimptastic, not ivory.
White grips are just ugly.
A buyer of this product is compelled to be happy with a craptastic gun-bucket holster from the guy selling SKS Tapco junk at the gun show.
If they want to holster it, maybe. I would think it's most likely to be used on a home defense gun.
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Why are we defending the homestead with a pistol anyway? Or is it just to fight your way to your PGO shotgun? =D
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White grips are just ugly.
Rasis!
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Mount the light on your gun, and you MUST point the gun at whatever/whoever it is you intend to illuminate.
Why? I've got a TLR1 on my little SR9c. It puts out enough light that if I point it out in front of me but down at the floor it still floods a darkened room with enough light to recognize people. I haven't tried it, but I suspect I'd get even more illumination of the room if I went Full Sabrina and kept it pointed at the ceiling so the light reflected down off of the white ceiling.
Not that I have any intention of doing so. If I hear people downstairs I'm going to be watching the top of the stairs from inside my bedroom, yelling to whoever it is to get the hell out before the cops show up while my wife calls 911. I'm not playing Hunt The Bad Guy in my boxers unless I have no other choice.
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White grips are just ugly.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reactiongifs.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F09%2Fracist1.gif.pagespeed.ce.4mB4Gyg8e3.gif&hash=7f364d4bf870e7cf908cb380384e61bb5edbbc6c)
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As a few of us know, molding your own Kydex is not rocket science, if you’ve got an oven, some plywood, and an old camping mattress, and normal cutting/sanding/drilling tools no home really ought be without, you can make a Kydex holster.
However, I won’t be going that far. This is just for playing around and a range toy. I’m not a “1911 guy” to begin with, I have one because I inherited it. I do like the fast action of dropping the safety and having an instant SA shot. So as to why people love the 1911, I “get it”, but the balance and grip angle and the particular recoil profile in terms of time to target recovery just doesn’t work for me. While the recoil impulse of the .45 acp is pleasant, the leverage the muzzle has over the hand makes it jump and wander obnoxiously. Maybe this will feel different enough that I can enjoy shooting it and the Springfield Milspec that’s been shot for exactly seven times for one magazine’s worth will see some use.
And after shooting, I freely admit my second most favorite range activity is the social aspect of making people go “What the hell is that?” So by definition, I like weird stuff. Folding my Keltec Sub9 in half. The Sterling with its side mounted horizontal magazine, the converted Saiga 12ga with PK-A scope and 20 round drums…
I don’t disagree with the idea posted earlier this is the Tapcofication of the 1911. And I’m eyes wide open when it comes to oddball Israeli firearm accessories. i.e. The same country that’s brought us the ”scrotum light” (http://www.fab-defense.com/en/category-flashlights-and-laser-mounts/id-24/potato-shaped-foregrip-holds-any-1-or-1-1-8-diameter-flashlight.html). And I just realized subconsciously, this grip looks a little like the semi-unobtanium Keltec PMR-30 I’ve wanted as a plinker for some time now. That probably plays into it too.
I do agree the failure to cover/retain the plunger detent tube for the slide lock and safety is a major oversight. However, that the right side grip panel is supposed to do that just made me lose that much more respect for the 1911 as a design in the first place. Seems like a bit of a “kludge” on the part of JMB if you ask me. (granted, that could be a late addition to address added military requirements, like IIRC the grip-safety was…) Of course, that does very little to detract from the overall genius of creating the tilting barrel recoil operated semi-automatic pistol in the first place. The broad design of which has been the standard of almost every successful service caliber auto pistol since. However, if one were to take those who say the 1911 is “perfection” literally, we’d have none of the improvements like ejection port lockup, and linkless barrel pivots.
The firearm or accessory may or may not work, but I won’t fault anyone ever for trying.
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"I predict that before long someone will come up with way to make a Kydex holster for your 1911 with "Da railz" underneath !! Just tell use what doo-dad(s) you've mounted and we'll ship you one before the plastic is even fully cooled !!!"
That's not how that works, Scout26. If you have some off-the wall accessory for which a holster maker doesn't have a mold gun, you'll need to ship that accessory off to the holster maker so they can use it to mold a holster. Kydex is not a way around this.
Mashing the link to Raven's website, it would appear to be exactly the way it works. I predict that they will have the Recover CG3 that they can mount to a mold gun if they get enough* requests. Which will be listed in the "Model" drop down menu. Then you move on down the list to number five "Light" and select the light you have mounted.
If they can do it for almost every other handgun, I don't see this as being all that tough of a putt. Again, if they get enough* requests for holsters using this rail system.
* - "Enough" being the number that Raven feels make it worthwhile to buy at least one Recover CG3 to use on their mold guns.
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Huh?
How many plunger tubes have you broken off or shot loose?
They're staked in to the frame. That's a common technique, see also front and rear sights. Loose plunger tube/sight assembly is a flaw in assembly, not design.
Start piddle-farting around with one, like a lot of home gunsmiths are wont to do, and you might get one to pop free.
Of course, that home gunsmith's pair of Vice Grips probably accelerated the disassembly thereof.
I note that the Hogue monogrip on one of my 1911s actually covers the plunger tube.
If you're skeered of that wascally plunger tube departing for parts unknown, either stake it properly, or there are grip panels that will keep it there until you can stake it.
(Says the 1911 guy who was prompted by this thread to look at flashlight mounts for his bedside AK sidefolder...)
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Huh?
How many plunger tubes have you broken off or shot loose?
They're staked in to the frame. That's a common technique, see also front and rear sights. Loose plunger tube/sight assembly is a flaw in assembly, not design.
Start piddle-farting around with one, like a lot of home gunsmiths are wont to do, and you might get one to pop free.
Of course, that home gunsmith's pair of Vice Grips probably accelerated the disassembly thereof.
I note that the Hogue monogrip on one of my 1911s actually covers the plunger tube.
If you're skeered of that wascally plunger tube departing for parts unknown, either stake it properly, or there are grip panels that will keep it there until you can stake it.
(Says the 1911 guy who was prompted by this thread to look at flashlight mounts for his bedside AK sidefolder...)
Then apparently that particular objection to the grips are a red herring. =)
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How many plunger tubes have you broken off or shot loose?
A buddy lost one, but it was on an IAI gun, so I'm more likely to fault the manufacturer than the design.
They're staked in to the frame. That's a common technique, see also front and rear sights.
I've shot of front sights a couple of times.
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Then apparently that particular objection to the grips are a red herring.
True. That ain't the 800 pound gorilla here.
My objection is that they're friggin' ugly (or fugly), so the Tapco reference is appropriate.
Although, if ugly guns work, they're not necessarily a bad thing. Witness the Ruger P95 and its successors.
Grendels and Kel-Tecs run a close second.
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I'm not playing Hunt The Bad Guy in my boxers unless I have no other choice.
And why they're wearing your boxers you'll never know!
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Like a Glock is a thing of beauty.....
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This thread reminds me of the Lawyer reading the will at the end of 'Grand Torino' :
...my friend... Thao Vang Lor. On the condition that you don't chop-top the roof like one of those beaners, don't paint any idiotic flames on it like some white trash hillbilly, and don't put a big, gay spoiler on the rear end like you see on all the other zipperheads' cars. It just looks like hell. If you can refrain from doing any of that... it's yours.
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Then apparently that particular objection to the grips are a red herring. =)
Not a red herring at all. The grip panel can support the plunger tube, and usually does, and there's no reason why it couldn't/shouldn't on this gizmo.
And like Hawkmoon said, it may indicate that you're using a part from a maker that doesn't understand the gun as well as he ought to.
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Like a Glock is a thing of beauty.....
It's supposed to be ugly.
1911's are not. :P
Look, I just don't see the point of the ugly.
But I also don't see why you need rails so bad on a 1911 when you could get a 1911 with rails or jusy get an ugly chunk of plastic in the first place.
Plus, the damn thing looks so fat. If you're gonna have a double stack size grip, then have a double stack pistol.
Or you could learn to shoot with a flashlight, like I already said, OR you could get a nerd light (like my Dad said when I told him about this)
IMHO, it's a waste of money for uglyfing a perfectly good gun.
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Whoa. Tamara has joined the clan.
No kittening kittens in here, Tam.