Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Angel Eyes on February 04, 2014, 02:30:33 PM
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. . . made from tonewood seized by the Feds in 2011:
http://p.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/feb/2/gibson-launches-government-series-guitars-tonewood/
The guitars come in “Government Tan” and feature a pickguard “that’s hot-stamped in gold with the Government Series graphic — a bald eagle hoisting a Gibson guitar neck,” the description says.
I'm not sure if that's the most appropriate logo. Perhaps something involving Vaseline and/or a screw . . .
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I want one lol
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(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.washtimes.com%2Fmedia%2Fimage%2F2014%2F02%2F02%2Fscreen-shot-2014-02-02-at-13458-pm_s800x318.png%3F78a2fa4098675ff1578f824be76a6cd1a44b66ed&hash=5967b066dda63be582184cb202421048a33fbd1f)
That is an ugly, unflattering Les Paul. I don't want one (though I do want one that is actually pretty, someday).
I'm wondering if this supply of wood was stored improperly and dried out, hence the butt-ugly tan color and marketing gimmick.
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I'm wondering if this supply of wood was stored improperly and dried out, hence the butt-ugly tan color and marketing gimmick.
Certainly possible. I doubt the Feds understand or care about proper storage of such materials.
Apart from aesthetics, I was wondering if improper storage would adversely affect sound quality.
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The government model Gibson ought to be made of recycled plastic grocery bags :lol:
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(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.washtimes.com%2Fmedia%2Fimage%2F2014%2F02%2F02%2Fscreen-shot-2014-02-02-at-13458-pm_s800x318.png%3F78a2fa4098675ff1578f824be76a6cd1a44b66ed&hash=5967b066dda63be582184cb202421048a33fbd1f)
That is an ugly, unflattering Les Paul. I don't want one (though I do want one that is actually pretty, someday).
I'm wondering if this supply of wood was stored improperly and dried out, hence the butt-ugly tan color and marketing gimmick.
I think the butt ugly, uninspired FDE color was an intentional dig at the gov. Lots of right leaning folks at gibson from what I understand.
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DIRTY FINGERS PICKUPS?
That's a nice guitar for 1000
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I'm turned off by the final product's visual appeal, I'm turned off by the fact that the final product is probably going to have deficient tone quality after being SWAT-raided and stolen at gunpoint and stored in a facility not designed to protect exotic lumber, and finally I'm turned off by the fact that Gibson is speaking out both sides of their mouth.
From one side, they launch their brave new "Government series" guitar as a slam against The Man.
On the other side, they SETTLED the lawsuit to get their wood back. They didn't fight the man and righteously get their wood back in a Slash-led victory march. They didn't fight the man and then get an ultimate sentence and then launch a rebel product... they settled.
Nah. Do not want. Not for statement, not for product quality.
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Maybe if it had: "This guitar was confiscated by Fascists" on the body, then they would be worth money.
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I'm turned off by the final product's visual appeal, I'm turned off by the fact that the final product is probably going to have deficient tone quality after being SWAT-raided and stolen at gunpoint and stored in a facility not designed to protect exotic lumber, and finally I'm turned off by the fact that Gibson is speaking out both sides of their mouth.
From one side, they launch their brave new "Government series" guitar as a slam against The Man.
On the other side, they SETTLED the lawsuit to get their wood back. They didn't fight the man and righteously get their wood back in a Slash-led victory march. They didn't fight the man and then get an ultimate sentence and then launch a rebel product... they settled.
Nah. Do not want. Not for statement, not for product quality.
Boy, it sure is easy to go man the barricades when it's not your butt on the line. And while Gibson was waging this heroic fight against the man, just exactly where were they going to get the money to pay for the oodles and oodles of lawyers to fight the never ending supply of .gov lawyers? Really hard to pay your lawyers when you've got no money because you have no product to sell because the materials that you use to create your product have been confiscated by that same .gov.
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Maybe if it had: "This guitar was confiscated by Fascists" on the body, then they would be worth money.
Perhaps a "MOLON LABE" guitar would go over better.
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No honest man needs more than six strings :police:
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Boy, it sure is easy to go man the barricades when it's not your butt on the line. And while Gibson was waging this heroic fight against the man, just exactly where were they going to get the money to pay for the oodles and oodles of lawyers to fight the never ending supply of .gov lawyers? Really hard to pay your lawyers when you've got no money because you have no product to sell because the materials that you use to create your product have been confiscated by that same .gov.
;/
Gibson has been either the #1 or #2 guitar manufacturer for the best guitarists in the world for over 50 years, including rock, grunge, punk and metal legends.
They've enjoyed the support of hundreds of thousands or millions of amateur guitarists with similar philosophies to their idols who have gone out and bought the same guitars.
Here, they either:
1. Knowingly did something wrong and don't want it in the press, so they settled, or;
2. Decided they could cash in on this scandal more easily than standing for what's right.
If they were embroiled in a 2 year drama with the EPA and Customs government lawyers, for a wrongful seizure situation, word of that is going to get out in the musician community and people will go out of their way to buy Gibsons (not every Gibson out there is made from exotic woods involved here). Just like gun owners, musicians do put their money where their mouth is. Not quite as well organized as NRA/SAF/etc, but then again they also get captive audiences in every bar in the US, every Friday and Saturday night, to put in little digs against politicians and agencies that their audience will hear and remember.
I think Gibson screwed up, and KNOW they screwed up.
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There's very little likelihood that the wood used to make a les Paul was ruined from storage.
Hell, a lot of quilt maple is left outside for a long time before its cut.
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The criminal enforcement agreement defers prosecution for criminal violations of the Lacey Act and requires Gibson to pay a penalty amount of $300,000. The agreement further provides for a community service payment of $50,000 to the National Fish and Wildlife Foundation to be used to promote the conservation, identification and propagation of protected tree species used in the musical instrument industry and the forests where those species are found.
$350k in "fines", figure that's roughly 300 hours of lawyer and supporting cast time, at the cheapest. Uncle Sugar can make you can burn though that pretty quick.
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I love the in-your-face attitude. The company joins a long and distinguished list of companies giving in federales' extortion.
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You'd probably have to multiply the price by about ten to make it really worthy of the name "Government Series."
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Considering the specs, it's a pretty good price.
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I'm turned off by the fact that the final product is probably going to have deficient tone quality after being SWAT-raided and stolen at gunpoint and stored in a facility not designed to protect exotic lumber,
I think you are talking out your ass on this. That wood was more than likely sawn properly and dried at the source due to the high value of the wood. Unless the feds stored it outside in the middle the desert in AZ, the wood will be just fine. They also knew the value of the wood and what they could fetch for it in a sale if Gibson was unable to get it back.
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I just read the article again. It's the rosewood that they're talking about?
That's resilient stuff. It's precisely why it's one of the top choices for fingerboards.
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I just read the article again. It's the rosewood that they're talking about?
That's resilient stuff. It's precisely why it's one of the top choices for fingerboards.
I read it as rosewood on the finger board.
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The body isn't rosewood. You couldn't afford a Gibson Les Paul made entirely of rosewood.
The fingerboard is rosewood, which has been the lumber of choice for that function since Christ was a corporal, be it on a Gibson, Fender, Ibanez, Rickenbacker, Danelectro, or my own Mosrite.
Gibson wanted their lumber back from Uncle Sam, because Rosewood from Brazil and India, as well as Ebony from Madagascar and India, are "Banned from Import" items causing much pain under the (eerily retroactive) Lacey Act.
That means they have to find alternate sources for those two expensive varieties of wood for their guitars, boosting prices even higher. They also had to crawl through their own sphincters to prove that all the lumber in question wasn't harvested illegally.
It was much cheaper to pay the fine than pay for an extended trial. They paid for that rosewood (twice!) and by gawd they should use it, even in a commemorative Les Paul edition.
They didn't screw up. They chose which battle to fight, and which one to avoid.
Bravo to Gibson for best use of the old "When life gives you lemons, make lemonade" adage!
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I read it as rosewood on the finger board.
Right, but my point is, from the article, it appears the fingerboard wood is what they're talking about. So, even if the gov didn't store it in optimal conditions, I doubt very seriously that it would be a problem.
“Each Government Series II Les Paul also includes a genuine piece of Gibson USA history in its solid rosewood fingerboard, which is made from wood returned to Gibson by the US government after the resolution.”
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Right, but my point is, from the article, it appears the fingerboard wood is what they're talking about. So, even if the gov didn't store it in optimal conditions, I doubt very seriously that it would be a problem.
Totally agree.
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Gibson was raided twice- I wish they had fought the Gov., but they had to choose, essentially between bankrupting the company and settling. See, the real problem with this is that 95% of musicians are gonna be liberal idiots who would take the side of the government against their own mothers. Notice Martin did not get raided, or any other Democratic supporting company- this is using a federal agency as a political weapon.
The feds could drag this out for years and decades, to punish a company with process.
Now I want them to come out with rifle shaped guitars. AZ gets a AR-15 style, and Tallpine can have a Winchester 94. They can call them the "second Amendment series " hell, if folks will buy a flying V they should be ok with this. Or a reverse firebird, the ugliest electric guitar conceived by man....(sorry, Mr. Winter...)
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If they're doing this, they should print on the back of the guitar the name, address, and all other available public information on the various .gov bureaucrats who instigated proceedings in the first place.
Just giving credit where credit is due. >:D
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"If you won't destroy your company to make a Quixotic stand then you're a traitor and I have no use for your product!"
This line of thinking illustrates so much that's wrong with libertarianism/anarchism etc. I get pissed every time I see the LP running a POTUS candidate. It's a gigantic waste of time and money they should be allocating to getting folks elected to small local offices that 1. are realistically attainable goals and 2. where they could actually make decisive small gov changes and promote their ideology.
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"If you won't destroy your company to make a Quixotic stand then you're a traitor and I have no use for your product!"
This line of thinking illustrates so much that's wrong with libertarianism/anarchism etc. I get pissed every time I see the LP running a POTUS candidate. It's a gigantic waste of time and money they should be allocating to getting folks elected to small local offices that 1. are realistically attainable goals and 2. where they could actually make decisive small gov changes and promote their ideology.
THIS !!!
SO
MUCH
THIS !!!!
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"If you won't destroy your company to make a Quixotic stand then you're a traitor and I have no use for your product!"
This line of thinking illustrates so much that's wrong with libertarianism/anarchism etc. I get pissed every time I see the LP running a POTUS candidate. It's a gigantic waste of time and money they should be allocating to getting folks elected to small local offices that 1. are realistically attainable goals and 2. where they could actually make decisive small gov changes and promote their ideology.
Hell they can't even run a local or state candidate successfully much of the time. When the election cycle comes up invariably there is a libertarian candidate for at least one of the local or state offices yet you've never heard their name before. No signs on the side of the road no ads, no articles, no local radio or TV spots, nada, zilch, nothing. Invariably the Republican and Democrat candidates have at least coverage with signs and such so you've at least seen the name and know they are running for office ahead of time before you get to the ballot booth.
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Had a discussion about this with the old hippie who runs the local folk music shop. His take on the Gibson raid almost made me choke: "You know why Gibson was raided? Martin wasn't, Talor wasn't. It's because the president is really a conservative"\
Just figured y'all could use the giggle
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Had a discussion about this with the old hippie who runs the local folk music shop. His take on the Gibson raid almost made me choke: "You know why Gibson was raided? Martin wasn't, Talor wasn't. It's because the president is really a conservative"\
Just figured y'all could use the giggle
I do believe the Sixties were very good to this man.