Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Firethorn on February 10, 2014, 07:28:25 AM
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NY cockfighting ring raid rescues over 3,000 birds (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/02/10/ny-cockfighting-ring-raid-rescues-over-3000-birds/?intcmp=latestnews)
Roughly speaking: The cops discover and roll up a large cockfighting ring, including a number of ancillary businesses.
What gets me is the use of the term 'rescued' for the birds. Aren't cocks bred for fighting normally euthanized?
I also liked the 'bred and trained to fight'. From what I remember there's no training required, and most of the breeding simply utilizes natural instincts.
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Loser, loser chicken dinner?
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So does the winner get the loser's bird? Maybe that is where that saying came from. =)
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Um. Not what I expected when I went to the link. I am disappoint.
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Our roosters don't seem to have much trouble figuring out how to fight each other ;/
Although they usually manage not to kill each other after a while.
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Our roosters don't seem to have much trouble figuring out how to fight each other ;/
Although they usually manage not to kill each other after a while.
I think that's mostly the razor blades strapped to their legs(gaffs) to replace their natural spurs that cause that result.
On the other hand, given that the fighting is natural instinct, I wonder if banning gaffs and allowing the fights might not be too bad? Those birds have very good lives for their first 2 years, and if they're a good fighter, even longer.
On that topic, what if we ban the use of gaffs? Natural equipment only? That should allow most fights to not be to the death.
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The ASPCA has established a temporary shelter to house and care for the animals.
A place where they will get the best of care - https://www.facebook.com/TheFlyingChicken
stay safe.
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I'd rather be a fighting cock than a broiler chicken that's for sure.
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I'd rather be a fighting cock than a broiler chicken that's for sure.
I doubt that.
Fighting cocks bred and raised for bloodsport are not regulated by those nice people who make sure our food is healthy and tasty.
Small dirty cages with freedom only while enraged and either killing or being killed.
Cock fighting is brutal and nasty. Actually, all pit fighing blood sport is brutal and nasty.
The elder of my two bosses once snuck into a cock fight (mind you, this is the same woman who decided to tour the deep south right after college on her own, during the heaviest of the civil rights movement) and her discriptio n was acompainied by an expression I'd never seen before and havn't seen since. It takes a LOT to really upset Louise to the point she loses her composure. The fact that stupid birds fighting in a ring is something she found to be that bad makes me think that it's a lot worse then it sounds.
I don't care for sports involving humans fighting humans, but the fact that the humans in the ring understand and agreed despite the risk involved makes it fine.
Animals don't have either the understanding or the giving of consent.
Oh, and I wouldn't eat those cocks. They probably really tough and nasty, not to mention possibly deases ridden. :barf:
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I doubt that.
Fighting cocks bred and raised for bloodsport are not regulated by those nice people who make sure our food is healthy and tasty.
Small dirty cages with freedom only while enraged and either killing or being killed.
Cock fighting is brutal and nasty. Actually, all pit fighing blood sport is brutal and nasty.
The elder of my two bosses once snuck into a cock fight (mind you, this is the same woman who decided to tour the deep south right after college on her own, during the heaviest of the civil rights movement) and her discriptio n was acompainied by an expression I'd never seen before and havn't seen since. It takes a LOT to really upset Louise to the point she loses her composure. The fact that stupid birds fighting in a ring is something she found to be that bad makes me think that it's a lot worse then it sounds.
I don't care for sports involving humans fighting humans, but the fact that the humans in the ring understand and agreed despite the risk involved makes it fine.
Animals don't have either the understanding or the giving of consent.
Oh, and I wouldn't eat those cocks. They probably really tough and nasty, not to mention possibly deases ridden. :barf:
Ummm, have you ever seen a commercial chicken operation? Cages to small for the bird to move stacked on top of each other with the birds crapping on those below them, top beak cut off to allow force feeding etc. I'm by no means an animal rights nutter but the way we raise chickens is the definition of cruel.
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Ummm, have you ever seen a commercial chicken operation? Cages to small for the bird to move stacked on top of each other with the birds crapping on those below them, top beak cut off to allow force feeding etc. I'm by no means an animal rights nutter but the way we raise chickens is the definition of cruel.
Sounds like an egg-laying operation. Meat chicken operations are a bit more open. Open floor, birds get to walk about and eat out of the feeders & water deals. Lots of those operations in NW Arkansas to keep Tyson in poultry.
Also, debeaking is to protect birds from hen-pecking each other, sometimes to death. I am not sure how one would go about force-feeding a chicken with a cut beak. Or how it could ever be economical. Probably just easier to keep the artificial light burning 18 hours/day year round as our chickens threw in the towel come night time. Unless you mean ducks used to produce fois gras (duck liver pate, IIRC)?
Not every chicken lives in Chicken Paradise (our back yard for our two recently departed hens).
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You're correct, I was thinking of the egg ranch that we used to drive past when hauling our trash to the dump.
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There is a cock fighting ring (cock ring?) in San Juan that is still running.
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Ummm, have you ever seen a commercial chicken operation? Cages to small for the bird to move stacked on top of each other with the birds crapping on those below them, top beak cut off to allow force feeding etc. I'm by no means an animal rights nutter but the way we raise chickens is the definition of cruel.
Rooster beat me too it.
And thank you. Now I'm going to be too grossed out to eat eggs for awhile...
And the only fowl industry that's really commen in my immediate area is fighting cocks, so I am pretty aware of how those guys go through life.
And for the record, chickens are dirty, nasty, stupid critters and the only reason I sorta want some is free eggs and bug eating potential. The free eggs only manage to make them slightly more tolerable then Guinia Hens.
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Yeah, lots of them living close together is dirty & nasty. Kind of like humans. Give them a little room, though, and they are no more nasty than any other outdoor critter.
Out where you roam they would find a buttload of bugs to eat, I'd bet.
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Sounds like an egg-laying operation. Meat chicken operations are a bit more open. Open floor, birds get to walk about and eat out of the feeders & water deals. Lots of those operations in NW Arkansas to keep Tyson in poultry.
Also, debeaking is to protect birds from hen-pecking each other, sometimes to death. I am not sure how one would go about force-feeding a chicken with a cut beak. Or how it could ever be economical. Probably just easier to keep the artificial light burning 18 hours/day year round as our chickens threw in the towel come night time. Unless you mean ducks used to produce fois gras (duck liver pate, IIRC)?
Not every chicken lives in Chicken Paradise (our back yard for our two recently departed hens).
Where do you think fryers and broilers come from?
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I know lots of folks who think chicken just comes from...
The store.
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Yeah, lots of them living close together is dirty & nasty. Kind of like humans. Give them a little room, though, and they are no more nasty than any other outdoor critter.
Out where you roam they would find a buttload of bugs to eat, I'd bet.
There are a few folks out here with various bug eaters. The do pretty well. The Guinie's out at the farm only need feed in the winter (though they eat a lot of dog food year round)
And even with room to roam, those guinia's are nasty. They seem to think roosting on the back porch of my bosses trailer is the thing to do, so it's always covered in bird poop.
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I know lots of folks who think chicken just comes from...
The store.
"Hunting should be outlawed! Hunters can just get their meat from the grocery store like everyone else!"
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Oh, and I wouldn't eat those cocks. They probably really tough and nasty, not to mention possibly deases ridden. :barf:
I'm just going to leave this right here & walk away....
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I doubt that.
Fighting cocks bred and raised for bloodsport are not regulated by those nice people who make sure our food is healthy and tasty.
Small dirty cages with freedom only while enraged and either killing or being killed.
SNIP
Oh, and I wouldn't eat those cocks. They probably really tough and nasty, not to mention possibly deases ridden. :barf:
Cock fighting has only "recently" been outlawed in Az. Before that there were two raising operations going on down here. One had a small private coop for each bird but they had the free run on of five or six acres. They weren't crowded so didn't fight. The other had each bird in a five x five two story coop about a dozen individual coops on an acre. Both had some of the nicest looking birds I've ever seen.
Now, I've never been to a cock fight other than when the breeder didn't sex the chicks I bought too well & I end up with three or four roosters when I raise layers, it seems that if a guy was betting his money & reputation on the outcome of a fight he'd want to enter the strongest, healthiest bird he can enter.
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I'm just going to leave this right here & walk away....
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I was wondering who would catch that.
Trip, cock fighting has been illegal around here for a long time.
And, I'm sorry, but regardless of how the animals are raised, to put two animals in a pit and have them fight to the death for entertainment value is sick.
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And, I'm sorry, but regardless of how the animals are raised, to put two animals in a pit and have them fight to the death for entertainment value is sick.
I'm just curious as to your view on bull-fighting.
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Never said it wasn't. My only comment was on the care taken of what can be valuable property.
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There are a few folks out here with various bug eaters. The do pretty well. The Guinie's out at the farm only need feed in the winter (though they eat a lot of dog food year round)
And even with room to roam, those guinia's are nasty. They seem to think roosting on the back porch of my bosses trailer is the thing to do, so it's always covered in bird poop.
My Dad got about 30 Guinness birds once. They are loud and never seem to shut up. Their one redeeming quality is they ate nearly every bug within 1/2 a mile of the house. So much that the fire ants nearly disappeared and didn't come back until nearly two years after the birds were gone. But they made a loud racket and my Dad could only stand them so long. 8 or 10 was a much better number, but they disappeared one by one over the next few years.
The mallard ducks he had were much nicer to have around.
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Fighting cocks bred and raised for bloodsport are not regulated by those nice people who make sure our food is healthy and tasty.
1. The people making sure our food is 'healthy and tasty' are actually not very nice, normally.
2. Think about how well a human would fight if kept in a 'too small' cage for most of their life vs one that's been carefully raised/trained.
I read up on how gamecocks are raised - they're raised free range, with the poults(male chicks) sorted by dominance. IE when one becomes the 'leader' it's removed to an area by itself. Still free range, and encouraged to exercise/develop, provided premium feed. There's something about introducing older hens to help 'build up the confidence' of the young gamecocks, though whether that's the initial losers of the dominance competitions or the winner is a bit vague to me.
Small dirty cages with freedom only while enraged and either killing or being killed.
It's a bit like a horse race - do you WANT your fighting bird to NOT be at the top of it's game? The small cages are only for transport.
Cock fighting is brutal and nasty. Actually, all pit fighing blood sport is brutal and nasty.
Don't argue with this; however territorial/mate dominance games are brutal and nasty in nature as well. Look at what Bucks/Rams and such will do to each other.
The fact that stupid birds fighting in a ring is something she found to be that bad makes me think that it's a lot worse then it sounds.
I actually don't disagree with you here, which is why I proposed SOME regulations. Examples I listed included banning Gaffs, only allowing natural spurs. The chickens fight naturally. They hate each other without any assistance.
Oh, and I wouldn't eat those cocks. They probably really tough and nasty, not to mention possibly deases ridden. :barf:
Disease ridden? Unlikely, though likely only as 'sterile' as regular free-range chicken. Remember, these are 1:1 fights between chickens, and for you to get the most money your's has to win. Ergo you want the strongest, healthiest bird you can get.
Never said it wasn't. My only comment was on the care taken of what can be valuable property.
My view as well. However it seems to be an extremely common 'sickness'.
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I was wondering who would catch that.
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I was restraining myself :angel:
Twice I almost posted:
A girl's gotta have standards
there, I did it =D
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I've seen game cocks being raised (or bred). It was a lot of smallish wire cages outside in the yard, each with a shelter. I believe each cock had a hen in the cage.
Yes, I'd rather live like that than be a broiler chicken.
I'd be willing to bet that if the cock died in his first fight he would STILL live longer than a broiler chicken.
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I've seen game cocks being raised (or bred). It was a lot of smallish wire cages outside in the yard, each with a shelter. I believe each cock had a hen in the cage....
So he had something to crow about :lol:
Poor hen - I bet her back was ripped bloody.
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I'm just curious as to your view on bull-fighting.
Just as long as you don't do both at once....more than enough cock & bull available on the internet....
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I'd be willing to bet that if the cock died in his first fight he would STILL live longer than a broiler chicken.
From my reading on the topic - time from hatching to first fight is ~2 years. Wiki lists broiler chicken lifespans at 5-7 weeks, maybe 14. Egg laying breeds well under 1% of the cocks last past the first few days of birth. Even breeding broiler lines are lucky to last a year. The longest lasting would be battery hens, at about 18 months.
While certainly many fighting chickens are culled, on average a hatched chick(male or female) has a much longer life ahead of it than non-fighting breeds.
Poor hen - I bet her back was ripped bloody.
Depends on the birds, but as I understand it the breeding instincts are much more intact, the cockeral should pay attention to when the female is and is not willing.
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I feel like Chicken tonight. ;) :P :P
IIRC, Lumpia is on the menu.
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Depends on the birds, but as I understand it the breeding instincts are much more intact, the cockeral should pay attention to when the female is and is not willing.
Roosters specialize in rough sex. >:D It has gotten to the point where I have just shot some of them rather than try to catch and butcher them.
We had one that was a real gentleman, but a visitor's dog killed it =( We buried him with honors in our pet cemetary.