Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Viking on March 30, 2014, 04:18:42 AM
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Reportedly because someone built a pistol (commercially) made to fire 5.45x39. Info comes from 4chan's weapons forum and various blogs at the moment.
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Well crap. Looks like I can still get commercial russian/ukrainian for $250-290/1K. I was planning on stocking up in a few months once the bills were paid. I've got about 6500 rounds on hand. Or I could look on the bright side, that ammo I have is no longer 18 cent per round that I got it for. Don't know who I'm madder at, the ATf for being themselves or the idiot that had to know what building a pistol would do. Online is sold out except for gay old Bud's Gun shop who is reserving it for Team Buds members, betcha it's really gone anyway.
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Any proof other than 4chan?
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Big thread on arfcom (look for James Yeager was right...)
http://www.thebangswitch.com/import-ban-on-7n6-5-45x39/?utm_source=feedly&utm_reader=feedly&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=import-ban-on-7n6-5-45x39
Not to be that guy, but I'm glad I stocked up on 7N6 with enough ammo to shoot out a couple of barrels and bought a spare barrel/BCG.
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Isn't there already 5.45 AK pistols available? Could of sworn Arsenal or somebody makes them.
Looks like I need to add more spam cans to my collection.
Don't know who I'm madder at, the ATf for being themselves or the idiot that had to know what building a pistol would do.
;/ I think that answer should be fairly obvious.
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Isn't there already 5.45 AK pistols available? Could of sworn Arsenal or somebody makes them.
Looks like I need to add more spam cans to my collection.
;/ I think that answer should be fairly obvious.
I thought so. I mean, there are plenty of 7.62x39 ones.
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I have seen lots of 223 AK pistols. I have seen no 5.45 pistols. I thought the main reason was because people knew that would get the cheap ammo banned. Availability of cheap surplus has been the main draw to 5.45.
I don't like that rule, but it has been around for a long time. I really want to know who is building a 5.45 pistol so I can boycott them. Assuming the BATFE isn't just lying. It could just be some of that working around Congress business.
Now my understanding is that possession of the ammo is okay, but sales are prohibited.
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Now my understanding is that possession of the ammo is okay, but sales are prohibited.
Sale is fine to. Importation is restricted.
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I'll just buy some more of the Red Army Standard brand commercial ammo coming in. No more 7N6 unless I trip over a deal. No biggy. Probably still get a 2nd -74, the plans for a 5.45 AR are now straight out.
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Sale is fine to. Importation is restricted.
Thanks, I realized that a few minutes later. I do have a few rounds of steel core 30.06 they used to sell. I also saw a guy selling 308 steel core once. It was insanely expensive. I think it might have just been reloaded 30.06 bullets.
I will probably pick up some Red Army ammo or something also. I have some Silver Bear already, but it is a bit underpowered by comparrison. I want to try other stuff.
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Yep - at this point there is really no point in building a 5.45 AR unless you already had 7n6 stacked deep. The cheap surplus was the whole point.
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Reportedly because someone built a pistol (commercially) made to fire 5.45x39.
You mean we shouldn't try to produce this (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/outdoor-sports-recreation/1036159-7-62x54-handgun-anyone.html) commercially?
It's like the Swiss Army Gun; a pistol, a flamethrower and a booby trap all in one. Add a composite grip in a nice rounded shape, (think Blackhawk) and a bayonet similar to the original Mosin one and you're all set to destroy wrists and benchrests. (And who really cares if it gets up enough velocity to penetrate armor? Unless the target is wearing steel plate and/or Nomex, he'll be blind, deaf and on fire anyway.)
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You mean we shouldn't try to produce this (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/outdoor-sports-recreation/1036159-7-62x54-handgun-anyone.html) commercially?
It's like the Swiss Army Gun; a pistol, a flamethrower and a booby trap all in one. Add a composite grip in a nice rounded shape, (think Blackhawk) and a bayonet similar to the original Mosin one and you're all set to destroy wrists and benchrests. (And who really cares if it gets up enough velocity to penetrate armor? Unless the target is wearing steel plate and/or Nomex, he'll be blind, deaf and on fire anyway.)
I would not want to be holding that thing when it went off.
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You mean we shouldn't try to produce this (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/outdoor-sports-recreation/1036159-7-62x54-handgun-anyone.html) commercially?
It's like the Swiss Army Gun; a pistol, a flamethrower and a booby trap all in one. Add a composite grip in a nice rounded shape, (think Blackhawk) and a bayonet similar to the original Mosin one and you're all set to destroy wrists and benchrests. (And who really cares if it gets up enough velocity to penetrate armor? Unless the target is wearing steel plate and/or Nomex, he'll be blind, deaf and on fire anyway.)
I while ago someone decided it'd be a splendid idea to make (commercially) semi-auto pistols in 7.62x54. Outrage followed, the pistols were immediatly SBR'd, nothing seemed to come from it. Can't give you link, read it on 4chan.
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I while ago someone decided it'd be a splendid idea to make (commercially) semi-auto pistols in 7.62x54. Outrage followed, the pistols were immediatly SBR'd, nothing seemed to come from it. Can't give you link, read it on 4chan.
I remember seeing that, iirc they were complete vaporware.
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I remember seeing that, iirc they were complete vaporware.
I seem to remember some being made (trial run perhaps?), and then SBR'd damn quick after people got a bit upset.
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http://www.thegunzone.com/762x39.html
1994 version:
Recent production of handguns that are designed to fire 7.62 X 39mm steel core ammunition has resulted in the reclassification of that ammunition as armor piercing (which) can only be sold to law enforcement or governmental agencies. Prior to introduction of these handguns in the marketplace, 7.62 X 39mm ammunition was not considered armor piercing, because it was only used in rifles -- primarily SKS/AK rifles.
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I guess the dumb question is did soeone actually make an AK74 pistol or is this just the ATF being the ATF? I saw someone link to gunbroker, but I would hate to think some custom home build would force this change.
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Everyone's forgetting 5.45x39 AR15 pistol/SBR barrels too.
The whole 5.45 pistol thing kind of went down like this over the past few years:
- Don't even THINK about it.
- OKAY, but only if it's an NFA SBR. That's it!
- I guess it's okay as long as it's a home builder, and they keep quiet about it.
- If some FFL or company/store starts selling them, we'll come down on them like a ton of bricks/Olympic Arms! (And truth be told, it wasn't ALL Oly's fault, despite the owner being WARNED IN PERSON at SHOT not to do it. There were B-West builds and the MARS pistol out there too...)
- These 5.45x39 AR short barrels are for SBR builds... (wink wink, nudge nudge)
- HEY, CHECK OUT MY 5.45 PISTOL ON YOUTUBE, BE SURE TO CLICK THE LINKS FOR MY 243 OTHER 5.45 PISTOL VIDEOS!
Doesn't matter really, it was only a matter of time. Other than not having the ban happen, or it getting overturned in court, the timing couldn't be better. AFAIK, the 5.45 N76 cans were going to dry up due to the recent unpleasantness in the Crimea anyway. Kinda/sorta makes it a Pyrrhic victory to a degree I guess. And N76 cans weren't just going to last indefinitely. I've not seen any recent dates on the cans to indicate that any newer than the late 80's have ever been seen. (Speak up if you know of any...)
There's Red Star Army from Romania, and Brown Bear, Wolf, Silver Bear, Golden Tiger assuming Russian commercial ammo imports can continue, or are able to start up again sometime in the future.
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I just read a screen cap of a post from another forum, posted by a certain...individual, who have announced his intentions of building pistols (commercially) in 7.62x54, sending them to ATF, for no other reason than getting that ammo banned from import as well.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought 7N6 was lead core with a steel penetrator like 5.56 M855 rounds. If so, how can it be banned when M855 is not?
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought 7N6 was lead core with a steel penetrator like 5.56 M855 rounds. If so, how can it be banned when M855 is not?
Import ban
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Import ban
Yes, I know it's an import ban. Has foreign-made M855 (such as IMI) been banned from import?
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I've never seen any. Dunno
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought 7N6 was lead core with a steel penetrator like 5.56 M855 rounds. If so, how can it be banned when M855 is not?
7n6 the steel is a greater percentage of the core. Enough to (apparently) Push it over the edge. M855 is listed by the ATF as specifically NOT AP.
7N6:
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cruffler.com%2FFeatures%2FOCT-01%2F545-CrossSection.jpg&hash=377433096cc4714f8712a046029e5e786d4161a3)
M855:
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fammo.ar15.com%2Fproject%2FAmmo_Cross_Sections%2FSS109.jpg&hash=f07c124258709dea3b16f1307420c7646a9e963a)
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That the steel core of N76 is not intended as a penetrator, but instead slides as a weight/mass into the air pocket in the tip and destabilize it's mass distribution/SD to try and guarantee fish hooking/tumbling in flesh might get it off the hook if someone fights it hard enough legally.
The mild steel in the Chinese 7.62x39 from Norinco was also not intended to be armor piercing, or as a penetrator, but was instead simply filler that was cheaper than lead. However I don't think anyone was prepared to go to the mat over that type of thing back then.
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Yes, I know it's an import ban. Has foreign-made M855 (such as IMI) been banned from import?
I am thinking Wideners had Isreali made M855 recently; still do.
http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=9020&dir=18|830|845 (http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=9020&dir=18|830|845)