Armed Polite Society

Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Balog on March 31, 2014, 02:11:39 PM

Title: Mo' cops mo' problems
Post by: Balog on March 31, 2014, 02:11:39 PM
http://www.mlive.com/news/saginaw/index.ssf/2014/03/small_town_big_problem_lawsuit.html#incart_river_default

Small town in Michigan is losing its insurance because of the cost of lawsuits filed against it. No idea if this is a corrupt local .gov or a series of frivolous suits. However, one thing in this article really stood out to me.

Total village population is 300. Local PD has 100(!) reserve officers. Assuming normal population distribution curves for family vs singles, this seems like virtually every household in the village has at least one reserve officer in it? Seems wonky to me. Any Michiganders able to comment on what's going on here?
Title: Re: Mo' cops mo' problems
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on March 31, 2014, 02:37:36 PM
http://www.mlive.com/news/saginaw/index.ssf/2014/03/see_the_5_lawsuits_between_oak.html
seems like it goes back a while
Title: Re: Mo' cops mo' problems
Post by: TechMan on March 31, 2014, 04:19:37 PM
Somewhere in the middle lies the truth.  I live 1 square mile city (in OH) and we don't have no where near that many reserve officers. 
Title: Re: Mo' cops mo' problems
Post by: AJ Dual on March 31, 2014, 05:58:19 PM
Somewhere in the middle lies the truth.  I live 1 square mile city (in OH) and we don't have no where near that many reserve officers. 

My gut feeling is this. Skeezy/sleazy, with everyone being reserve officers, due to whatever power, privileges, or some as to yet undisclosed benefit they get from the status. And just a good-ol-boy network.

However, maybe not overtly criminal or fraudulent.
Title: Re: Mo' cops mo' problems
Post by: KD5NRH on March 31, 2014, 06:03:19 PM
Might just be covering some technicality for when they need a S&R team.  If it's that rural, then everybody probably knows the area pretty well.  Offer some basic training and sign them on as reserves so you can get funding to supply radios, etc.
Title: Re: Mo' cops mo' problems
Post by: MechAg94 on March 31, 2014, 06:20:57 PM
I guess I was thinking about celebrity reserve officers or people designated as reserve who don't live there. 
Title: Re:
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on March 31, 2014, 06:25:02 PM
My read is the reserve officers fund the police force. Pay up and get a badge. Why that would be a lot like a citizen militia. Kinda all libertarian like

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Title: Re: Mo' cops mo' problems
Post by: T.O.M. on March 31, 2014, 10:53:19 PM
Somewhere in the middle lies the truth.  I live 1 square mile city (in OH) and we don't have no where near that many reserve officers. 

If it is the one-square mile city I am thinking of, I may not know about the current state of the pokice department,  but in my youth it had some great men wearing a badge for the city.
Title: Re: Mo' cops mo' problems
Post by: TechMan on March 31, 2014, 11:35:10 PM
Cheviot is my current residence.
Title: Re: Mo' cops mo' problems
Post by: TechMan on April 01, 2014, 05:14:34 AM
Two thoughts:  Would the reserve officers be covered by LEOSA?  Also, are the reserve officers part of the state retirement system?
Title: Re: Mo' cops mo' problems
Post by: T.O.M. on April 01, 2014, 06:49:44 AM
Cheviot is my current residence.

Oops.  Wrong one. Sorry .
Title: Re: Mo' cops mo' problems
Post by: TechMan on April 01, 2014, 07:25:57 AM
Oops.  Wrong one. Sorry .
Which one were you thinking of?
Title: Re: Mo' cops mo' problems
Post by: cordex on April 01, 2014, 07:51:26 AM
Two thoughts:  Would the reserve officers be covered by LEOSA?  Also, are the reserve officers part of the stat retirement system?
Depends. In my area, some jurisdictions' reserves are sworn law enforcement with coverage under LEOSA. Others are essentially volunteer traffic directors with no arrest power or qualified immunity. Seems to me that if these are authorized to be armed officers by the city, they are probably full LEOs, but I don't know that for certain.

As Balog says, it is hard to pass judgement on their program without a little more information, but their abnormally high rate of lawsuits seems to indicate a training problem at minimum. In this case, my first thought is good ol boy network rather than libertarian paradise, but it could go either way, I suppose.
Title: Re: Mo' cops mo' problems
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on April 01, 2014, 08:02:29 AM
what was that "rate of law suits"
4 with one entity? are there other suits?
Title: Re:
Post by: Tallpine on April 01, 2014, 11:25:40 AM
My read is the reserve officers fund the police force. Pay up and get a badge. Why that would be a lot like a citizen militia. Kinda all libertarian like

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I was wondering if it was a way to essentially hand out CCW permits  ???
Title: Re: Re: Re:
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on April 01, 2014, 01:20:43 PM
I was wondering if it was a way to essentially hand out CCW permits  ???

No way for me to know but it would certainly be a great incentive to donate
Plus you show id when running 85 in a 70 on the way to Disney World

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Title: Re:
Post by: lee n. field on April 01, 2014, 02:44:56 PM
I was wondering if it was a way to essentially hand out CCW permits  ???

CCW is difficult to get in MI?
Title: Re:
Post by: AJ Dual on April 01, 2014, 02:54:46 PM
CCW is difficult to get in MI?

There used to be a panel or board you had to go in front of and MI was kinda/sorta middling-fair "may issue" until only a few years back IIRC...
Title: Re:
Post by: Tallpine on April 01, 2014, 03:27:01 PM
CCW is difficult to get in MI?

Could just be a pro-2A chief that was working around state law  =|

Just like MT has a law that says if you are legal owner then you are "permitted" in regard to the school zone ban.
Title: Re:
Post by: GigaBuist on April 01, 2014, 10:41:50 PM
There used to be a panel or board you had to go in front of and MI was kinda/sorta middling-fair "may issue" until only a few years back IIRC...

Nah, we went shall-issue in 2001.  Since then requirements ave only been relaxed.

We do still have county "gun boards" that comprise three people, one being the county prosecutor, and they have the OPTION of having people come in for a questioning before getting their permit but it is rarely done.  My county (Ottawa) is the only one I know of where EVERYBODY has to come in; because our prosecutor is a prick about CCW.

As far as what's going on "over there" -- no idea.  Basically that whole region, which is where my wife is from, is referred to, even by her, as "scum of the thumb."  An economically depressed sh*thole, basically.  While in Saginaw earlier this year we saw a hand made sign on a liquor store that said, "NOW EXCEPTING WIC" and I commented to my wife, "Isn't it nice living in the area of the state where we have things jobs... and books?"

No amount of violent, stupidity, or corruption would surprise me.
Title: Re: Mo' cops mo' problems
Post by: Tallpine on April 02, 2014, 10:57:20 AM
Nah, we went shall-issue in 2001.  Since then requirements ave only been relaxed.

We do still have county "gun boards" that comprise three people, one being the county prosecutor, and they have the OPTION of having people come in for a questioning before getting their permit but it is rarely done.  My county (Ottawa) is the only one I know of where EVERYBODY has to come in; because our prosecutor is a prick about CCW.

As far as what's going on "over there" -- no idea.  Basically that whole region, which is where my wife is from, is referred to, even by her, as "scum of the thumb."  An economically depressed sh*thole, basically.  While in Saginaw earlier this year we saw a hand made sign on a liquor store that said, "NOW EXCEPTING WIC" and I commented to my wife, "Isn't it nice living in the area of the state where we have things jobs... and books?"

No amount of violent, stupidity, or corruption would surprise me.

Your wife was born in Saginaw, Michigan  ???

 ;)
Title: Re: Mo' cops mo' problems
Post by: zxcvbob on April 02, 2014, 11:26:49 AM
Your wife was born in Saginaw, Michigan  ???

 ;)

They call her "Lefty"
Title: Re: Mo' cops mo' problems
Post by: Tallpine on April 02, 2014, 11:51:46 AM
They call her "Lefty"

And her dad was a poor hardworking Saginaw fisherman.
Title: Re:
Post by: AJ Dual on April 02, 2014, 02:06:11 PM
"scum of the thumb." 

 :rofl:

I'm going to have to remember that one, and use it for Door county, or Wisconsin's "thumb". But it'll have the exact opposite connotation. As that area is largely tourism/resorts/boating for Chicago and the area is WI's attempt at "wine country". (minus that whole little "winter problem" we have up here...  ;/ )

So, you're going on a wine-tasting tour in Door county? Gonna go hang with the scum of the thumb, huh?  =D
Title: Re: Mo' cops mo' problems
Post by: GigaBuist on April 02, 2014, 09:16:19 PM
Your wife was born in Saginaw, Michigan  ???

 ;)

I don't get the joke.  But she was actually born in Germany, moved to Kentucky after a few months, then to Vassar, MI (close to Saginaw) when she was 10.
Title: Re: Mo' cops mo' problems
Post by: Angel Eyes on April 02, 2014, 09:22:41 PM
I don't get the joke. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tbrLDA18C4
Title: Re: Mo' cops mo' problems
Post by: zxcvbob on April 02, 2014, 11:02:56 PM
I don't get the joke.  But she was actually born in Germany, moved to Kentucky after a few months, then to Vassar, MI (close to Saginaw) when she was 10.

I have not actually listened to this link (and I'm stuck on a conference call right now and can't testdrive it) but this should explain the joke:  http://youtu.be/1Tz5HRMS5TQ
Title: Re:
Post by: brimic on April 03, 2014, 11:27:33 AM
My read is the reserve officers fund the police force. Pay up and get a badge. Why that would be a lot like a citizen militia. Kinda all libertarian like

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That was my first thought too.
Title: Re: Mo' cops mo' problems
Post by: Levant on April 03, 2014, 02:19:24 PM
That was my first thought too.

Mine, too.  Every able-bodied man defending their own town.  Merge this philosophy with the town in Florida that just cleaned house and we're back to true liberty.