Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Ned Hamford on April 29, 2014, 07:25:16 AM
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There is a comedy group that does reenactments from official court records. This is one such instance.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/28/opinion/verbatim-what-is-a-photocopier.html?_r=0
(Recorder's Office started a new policy, $2 per photocopy, but coupled it with no longer supplying digital copies; making more expansive work prohibitively expensive and tedious. This is a deposition from a suit that ensued.)
For all the drama inserted into the reenactments, it has been my experience that actual events are even more absurd as there is no narrative need for them to be believable, consistent, or even comprehensible.
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O.M.G.
Chris
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The apoplectic lawyer reminds me of John Michael Higgins in For Your Consideration. I'd like to see JMH in that role. :lol:
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It all depends on what the meaning of "is" is.
Having sat through a number of depositions (sometimes as an expert witness, sometimes as a fact witness, and sometimes as an advisor to the apoplectic attorney), I'd have to say that the entire scenario is entirely credible. Which is sad.
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mo tax money.........
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For all the drama inserted into the reenactments, it has been my experience that actual events are even more absurd as there is no narrative need for them to be believable, consistent, or even comprehensible.
How many times have your cases been featured?
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Boy, this brings back memories.
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Jack Nicholson as the "employee". [popcorn]
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Unbelievable. How often does an attorney get embroiled in this sort of idiocy? I'd sure as hell blow up like the guy at the end.
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There is a comedy group that does reenactments from official court records. This is one such instance.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/28/opinion/verbatim-what-is-a-photocopier.html?_r=0
(Recorder's Office started a new policy, $2 per photocopy, but coupled it with no longer supplying digital copies; making more expansive work prohibitively expensive and tedious. This is a deposition from a suit that ensued.)
For all the drama inserted into the reenactments, it has been my experience that actual events are even more absurd as there is no narrative need for them to be believable, consistent, or even comprehensible.
Favorite part: "If you feel stupid, it's not because I'm making you feel stupid."
You know, I was watching all this and thinking the IT guy (NOTE: this was the head of IT for the county!) was screwing around and, with the help of his lawyer, trying to make some legal claim that some specific type of copier was a photocopier and they weren't responsible because of that.
In the end, no, he was just that ignorant. The head of IT didn't know the definition of the word "photocopier."
(I also note that rather than help with the confusion, the opposing lawyer did everything he could to prolong it, rather than find out if his client actually was confused.)
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This stuff is gold. The deposition continues on from this. I think the attorney started feeling like we was getting jerked around:
21Q Xerox. Is the machine made by the Xerox
22 Company? Is that why it's called Xerox?
23 A No.
24 Q So xerox, in the parlance that you've described,
25 the language that you've described, is being used40
1 generically as opposed to describing a particular
2 brand; is that right?
3 A All of my life I've just known people to say
4 xerox. It's not commonplace to use the terminology
5 that you're using.
6 Q You mean it's more -- people say xerox instead
7 of photocopy?
8 A If you're referring to a type of machine where
9 you place a piece of paper on the top and press a
10 button and out comes copies of it, they usually refer
11 to it as xerox.
12 Q Have you ever heard it referred to as
13 photocopying?
14 A Not with my generation, no.
15 Q And you've never heard anybody in the Recorder's
16 office refer to that as photocopying; is that true?
17 A I don't remember any specific instance where
18 that's referred to as photocopying.
19 Q Have you ever heard it referred to as
20 photocopying in any office context?
21 A I've always heard of it as xerox.
22 Q Let me be clear: You've never heard of that
23 called photocopying; is that correct, Mr. Patterson?
24 A When people speak of using a type of machine
25 that you described, they speak of it as could you41
1 make a xerox of that or could you xerox this for me.
2 Q But you've never heard them refer to that as
3 photocopying; is that correct?
4 A I'm sure it's been said. I don't remember any
5 specific instance. What i remember is it referred to
6 as xeroxing a piece of paper to make additional
7 copies.
8 Q I know. You've told us that.
9 Let's be very clear here. You've never heard
10 that process called "photocopying." Is that true or
11 false?
12 A I'm sure the term has been used by someone.
13 Q Because you've heard that or you're just
14 guessing?
15 A I do not remember a specific instance where
16 someone used the term "photocopying." My generation
17 and people around me typically refer to placing an
18 image on the top of a machine and having two or three
19 copies come out as xeroxing.
20 Q Okay. Would it be synonymous in your
21 understanding with xeroxing to call that
22 photocopying?
23 A I don't know. I don't know what the legal
24 definition of photocopying is.
25 Q I don't know if there is a legal defanition.42
1 I'm talking about what lay people say.
2 MR. CAVANAGH: Aren't we
3 asking the Ohio Supreme Court to
4 decide that issue?
5 MR. MARBURGER: No.
6 MR. CAVANAGH: No?
7 MR. MARBURGER: You might
8 be. I'm not.
9 MR. CAVANAGH: Why don't you
10 just call it a copy machine. Why do
11 you have to call it a photocopier?
12 BY MR. MARBURGER:
13 Q I can call it anything I want to call it. I
14 want to see if you understand what I'm talking about.
15 A I call it a xerox.
16 Q Do you happen to know the names of the units
17 that you have that xerox? Do you happen to know what
18 they are -- what brand they are and what model or
19 unit they are?
20 A I should, but right now, due to the pressure
21 that you're placing me under, it's not coming to
22 mind.
23 Q I'm not placing -- am I placing you under
24 pressure, Mr. Patterson?
25 A I think it begins with an M. I can't remember43
1 currently.
2 Q Do you feel that I'm placing you under pressure?
3
MR. CAVANAGH: Be honest.
4 A Yes. This is not my normal environment. I'm
5 not a lawyer and, you know, I'm nervous that my
6 answers -- you will try to use in a way in which I
7 wouldn't intend them to be.
8 Q Well, you're in control of that. If you give us
9 an honest, forthright, clear answer, you'll decide
10 whether your testimony can be used in a strange or
11 odd way. That's up to you, not up to me.
12 A Okay.
13 Q Now, do you need a break --
14 A No, sir.
15 Q -- so that I'm not pressuring you?
16 A No.
17 Q Well, what can we do to remedy the press-ure that
18 you apparently feel?
19 A You could stop trying to rephrase questions to
20 place words in my mouth.
21 Q All you have to do is say no.
22 A Okay.
23 Q If I'm phrasing it inaccurately, all you have to
24 do is say that's not the truth.
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makattak, do you have the full deposition?
ETA: Nevermind, I saw it at the original link.
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This is akin to using the word 'Kleenex' as a synonym for 'tissue'. But it is not surprising to me how issues of legal and regulatory interpretation sometimes often come down to semantics or the usual and customary meaning of a word by the public as opposed to a term of art.
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I still say that most of his answers were coached. Repeating them word for word is what the investigative people, I am told, call a "clue".
stay safe.
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9432 Q "Is that a gun in your pocket?"
9433 A "I'm not sure what you mean."
9434 Q "Do you or do you not have a gun in your pocket?"
9435 A "What's the definition of 'pocket?' "
Terry runs and hides
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I still say that most of his answers were coached. Repeating them word for word is what the investigative people, I am told, call a "clue".
I'm older than dirt, and even I haven't heard a copier or "photocopy machine" referred to as a "Xerox" for probably at least twenty years ... probably closer to thirty years. And even when the term "Xerox" was used as a generic synonym for "photocopier," we knew the other word, too. The IT guy wasn't just feigning stupidity, he was engaging in the verbalization of untruthful statements.
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He did say he was referring to "my generation" when he mentioned "Xerox"-ing. I still call it that myself once in a while.
Nevertheless, it was a delightful Clintonizing of the interview.
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I'm older than dirt, and even I haven't heard a copier or "photocopy machine" referred to as a "Xerox" for probably at least twenty years ... probably closer to thirty years. And even when the term "Xerox" was used as a generic synonym for "photocopier," we knew the other word, too. The IT guy wasn't just feigning stupidity, he was engaging in the verbalization of untruthful statements.
Since we have actual Xerox photocopy machines/scanner/printers is it OK that we call them Xerox and make xerox copies of stuff?
Having been trained in the service and repair of electrostatic xerography machines I sometimes use Xerox in the generic form.
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Some more fun in this vein
http://www.texasbar.com/saywhat/weblog/buchmeyer_article_archive/jan81.asp
My hat is off to judge Mulligan...