Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: RoadKingLarry on April 29, 2014, 09:26:23 PM
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Well, this won't bode well for continued death penalaties in Oklahoma.
http://www.newson6.com/story/25384453/execution-fails-on-oklahoma-man (http://www.newson6.com/story/25384453/execution-fails-on-oklahoma-man)
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So either his vein failed or the chemicals extravasated into the muscle tissue where they were slowly absorbed by the body, as opposed to the much quicker effect had they made it to the circulation. Potassium chloride, which is used to stop the heart, burns terribly if it leaks outside of the blood vessel. And the drugs used to render him unconscious (midazolam) and to paralyze him and stop his breathing (pancuronium bromide) also were slowly absorbed. There is a pretty good chance that he was in terrible pain, partially or completely paralyzed and not unconscious when enough of the potassium chloride was absorbed to give him a heart attack.
There are many people who will say that he got what he deserved, and his crime was horrendous and not deserving of mercy. But if the State is going to execute people on my behalf, I ask that it be done quickly and humanely.
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So either his vein failed or the chemicals extravasated into the muscle tissue where they were slowly absorbed by the body, as opposed to the much quicker effect had they made it to the circulation. Potassium chloride, which is used to stop the heart, burns terribly if it leaks outside of the blood vessel. And the drugs used to render him unconscious (midazolam) and to paralyze him and stop his breathing (pancuronium bromide) also were slowly absorbed. There is a pretty good chance that he was in terrible pain, partially or completely paralyzed and not unconscious when enough of the potassium chloride was absorbed to give him a heart attack.
There are many people who will say that he got what he deserved, and his crime was horrendous and not deserving of mercy. But if the State is going to execute people on my behalf, I ask that it be done quickly and humanely.
which brings me back to just put a bullet in their head. Hell, you could rig it up just about the same as they do now just with a gun instead of an IV. Bit more messy, I suppose. But oh well.
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Thread title is misleading.
Dude was injected
Dude died.
Execution was successful. *expletive deleted*ck him
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3 drugs? i bet they prep a week spend thousands for what i could do in 5 mins for under a 100 bucks,
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Thread title is misleading.
It was supposed to be a double execution. Only one dude got injected/died. Thus botched. Thread title accurate.
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I don't know why we waste drugs on executions. Rope is better for the environment, cheaper, and reusable.
Win-win-win.
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It's been a big deal here for the last month or so. These 2 dirtbags had there executio stayed a couple of times over the drug mix being used. This go around was a "new" cocktail. I suspect that we won't see another execution in Oklahoma for quite a while.
I also wouldn't be surprised to find that a sympathetic anti-death penalty insider managed to sabotage the event.
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The odd thing is that if they had good vascular access, it should have gone swimmingly. The failure of the execution is not a function of the drugs being used, it was a failure of not having rapid access of the drugs to the blood stream. The drugs are the standard execution drug protocol with substituting the midazolam (Versed) for the phenobarbital that is now almost impossible to get. Theoretically, he should have been snowed under with a heavy dose of the sedative Versed, and then while unconscious, they would have followed with the pancuronium bromide to paralyze his respiratory muscles and then the potassium chloride to stop his heart. After the potassium chloride hit his bloodstream, he would have been dead in seconds.
All the crap about not knowing where the drugs came from and were they FDA approved and all that was just a smokescreen to stop the penalty period. But with this latest event, the opponents have more arrows in the quiver, that is for sure. Some of these prisoners have just crappy vascular access due to years of drug use. In some cases, they have to do a vascular cutdown in the execution chamber in order to ensure that the drugs can get into the bloodstream ASAP.
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I still don't understand what the hell is wrong with pushing an LD100 bolus of Etomidate, Fentanayl, and Succinylcholine like you were going to intubate, then uh... just don't intubate. =| Every ER in America has those drugs.
Junkie with collapsed veins, meh.. PICC line.
Despite my strong Libertarian leanings, I DO think that in theory, people can do things heinous enough that the state/society has the right to kill them.
In practice, the number of people who've been exonerated from death row, the burden all the appeals on the court system, and all the extra expense, which winds up delaying justice, and creating shorter incarcerations for other truly dangerous non-capital case criminals. Every guilty guy who fried wasn't worth one innocent man who did.
The whole penal system is a bunch of conflicting concepts, rehabilitation, punishment, "paying" for what was done. The whole thing needs to be triaged predicated on the idea of protecting innocent society from harm. Capital punishment, however deserved it is in some cases, detracts from that.
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What's wrong with just injecting heroin or morophine until they just die?
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The whole thing needs to be triaged predicated on the idea of protecting innocent society from harm.
This. And, treating it as collective self defense, any method the victim could legitimately have been justified in using, had they been able, should be fair game.
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I think someone has posted this before, but why not just do a "gas chamber" type of execution and just flood the room with N2? From my understanding, there's no freak out due to the CO2 chemoceptors being triggered. I think the nitrogen intoxication gives a bit of an euphoric feeling, and allows for a relatively gentle slip into unconsciousness, and then the oxygen deprivation does the rest.
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What's wrong with nitrogen?
Refill on a 300 cf cylinder is what, 80 bucks retail?
Thread title is misleading.
Dude was injected
Dude died.
Execution was successful. *expletive deleted* him
I literally laughed out loud =D
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I think someone has posted this before, but why not just do a "gas chamber" type of execution and just flood the room with N2? From my understanding, there's no freak out due to the CO2 chemoceptors being triggered. I think the nitrogen intoxication gives a bit of an euphoric feeling, and allows for a relatively gentle slip into unconsciousness, and then the oxygen deprivation does the rest.
Beat me to it.
I have a habit of reading the MSDS for whatever chemicals I'm working with. Once I started doing HVAC and having cylinders of dry nitrogen around, it became apparent that it's ideal for this.
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What's wrong with nitrogen?
Refill on a 300 cf cylinder is what, 80 bucks retail?
I literally laughed out loud =D
*bows*
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I think someone has posted this before, but why not just do a "gas chamber" type of execution and just flood the room with N2? From my understanding, there's no freak out due to the CO2 chemoceptors being triggered. I think the nitrogen intoxication gives a bit of an euphoric feeling, and allows for a relatively gentle slip into unconsciousness, and then the oxygen deprivation does the rest.
The words "gas" and "chamber" probably. Press would have a field day.
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The words "gas" and "chamber" probably. Press would have a field day.
the hypocrisy of our culture looks for a pretty execution
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This person shot a woman and helped bury her alive.
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Yes and the one that got at least another 14 days raped and murdered a baby, 11 months old I believe.
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This person shot a woman and helped bury her alive.
Yes and the one that got at least another 14 days raped and murdered a baby, 11 months old I believe.
^^^ Bears repeating.
The words "gas" and "chamber" probably. Press would have a field day.
Nitrogen Nook
Sleepy Space
Carbon Sequestration Station
the hypocrisy of our culture looks for a pretty execution
Execution and enforcement. Many folk are fine give agents of gov't the authority to shoot folk in the face so they don;t have to.
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This person shot a woman and helped bury her alive.
Yeah, I'm not very sympathetic >:D
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I think they should be checking out Clyde Shelton.
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They don't even need a gas *chamber*, just a mask. Give the guy a sedative like diazepam, (if he doesn't take it, that's his problem) strap him to a table, apply face mask with N2 for 5 minutes or whatever it takes.
BTW, I'm generally against the death penalty, but if you're going to do it there doesn't need to be such a ritual about it.
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Beheading can either be quick and virtually painless or slow and agonizing. Either way works for me.
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Beheading can either be quick and virtually painless or slow and agonizing. Either way works for me.
Same for hanging.
For that matter, firing squads can be equipped with BB guns for maximum environmentally friendly reusability.
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Same for hanging.
For that matter, firing squads can be equipped with BB guns for maximum environmentally friendly reusability.
Recently I read about a .50cal airgun used to hunt African bufflebeast.
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Recently I read about a .50cal airgun used to hunt African bufflebeast.
Firing squads don't really need long range accuracy, so a smoothbore shooting half inch ball bearings should be ideal. I bet a bearing would stay well within tolerance for hundreds of shots.
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Now a bunch of taxpayers money is going to be spent to investigate how this happened and the other bastard gets to live at least another 14 days. I say we start outsourcing executions to other countries that seem to be able to get it right and people don't really give a damn if the condemn suffers or not. Hell we outsource everything else.
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Quick effective with minimal fuss and fee?
Take all those nice fancy lethal injection tables or chairs and retrofit them with a doughnut shaped head piece and cattle gun on a swing arm. Strap convicted SOB in, swing cattle gun into position behind the head, push button and send the bolt up into the brain bucket severing the brain stem and turning everything else up there into scrambled eggs. No missing, no "oops" that prolong the death, no multiple sticks to get it right, no "we're not supplying you with those drugs anymore" or medical industry moral dilemmas, instant death about as guaranteed as you can make it, reusable, cheap, and leaves everything else intact for organ harvesting and such. Hell, if you want to do the not knowing who flipped the switch thing, it should even be easy enough to rig up a multi-button control panel with a computer randomly selecting which button is the hot button for each execution.
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I had a friend who maintained that the anticipation was the "cruel" part, so we should have a hydraulic press with a cyclic time of micro seconds. I think he was at least halfway serious about his flyswatter method.
But we aren't ever going to do that, and I think the term humane execution is an oxymoron. To me the closest thing would be the Nitrogen, or a massive overdose of heroin or some other painkiller. Painless, clean, no ugly convulsions.
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I had a friend who maintained that the anticipation was the "cruel" part...
I've wondered if that is the whole point of the "last meal" ritual.
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so then the 7 years from verdict to dead is cruel? we need to speed it up?
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I had a friend who maintained that the anticipation was the "cruel" part, so we should have a hydraulic press with a cyclic time of micro seconds. I think he was at least halfway serious about his flyswatter method.
Simple: giant triphammer dropping a piston down a dark shaft. Say 5' diameter to account for really heavy ones, or doubling up in cases like the original article. Doesn't take a very thick 5' diameter slug of steel to weigh enough to guarantee a quite compact, thoroughly nonthreatening former menace to society on the first try every time. Dark shaft reduces last-second panic, and music could be piped in to cover the sound of the approaching piston accelerating.
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I had a friend who maintained that the anticipation was the "cruel" part
This is the basis for why Japan does not tell their Death Row prisoners of the execution date until the morning that it happens. They think it is cruel for a prisoner to know the date in advance and worry about it. I read a memoir of a Death Row prisoner who was subsequently exonerated, and he said that every morning at 0700 when the guards came onto the unit, the other prisoners would try to see if the warden was with them and did the group stop at a particular cell. If the group passed you by, you were safe for another day.
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Copious amounts of heroin freely injected into a vein... what a comfy way to go!
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This is the basis for why Japan does not tell their Death Row prisoners of the execution date until the morning that it happens. They think it is cruel for a prisoner to know the date in advance and worry about it. I read a memoir of a Death Row prisoner who was subsequently exonerated, and he said that every morning at 0700 when the guards came onto the unit, the other prisoners would try to see if the warden was with them and did the group stop at a particular cell. If the group passed you by, you were safe for another day.
I have read this sort of thing actually produces extreme fear and anxiety in the prisoners... and so "not so humane"...
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I have read this sort of thing actually produces extreme fear and anxiety in the prisoners... and so "not so humane"...
I agree. I wonder if this is something unique to Japanese culture.
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As much as knowing the day would suck, you'd also know it's often not set in stone and when the time isn't pushed off one more time you've had time to get whatever affairs in order. Never knowing the day and waking up every morning wondering if today's the day? And if it is then it's their final answer? Sounds a lot scarier.
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As much as knowing the day would suck, you'd also know it's often not set in stone and when the time isn't pushed off one more time you've had time to get whatever affairs in order. Never knowing the day and waking up every morning wondering if today's the day? And if it is then it's their final answer? Sounds a lot scarier.
Sounds like life, actually.
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I have read this sort of thing actually produces extreme fear and anxiety in the prisoners... and so "not so humane"...
Sounds like a feature, not a bug >:D
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Poke a hole in their skulls with a scissors and suck their brains out. It's OK to use for late term abortions, so it must be humane.
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Poke a hole in their skulls with a scissors and suck their brains out. It's OK to use for late term abortions, so it must be humane.
Ouch.
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Poke a hole in their skulls with a scissors and suck their brains out. It's OK to use for late term abortions, so it must be humane.
WINNER !!!!
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If you don't care about humane punishment, just zip them up in a strong, air tight body bag and walk away. :angel:
If you do, then nitrogen displacement of O2 is pretty quick and sure. No needles or drugs in involved. They will have to use FDA certified Nitrogen NF gas though. =D Someone also mentioned using Nitrous to make them silly then just turning the nitrous up to the point of displacing the O2. Lots of gas alternatives. A liquid nitrogen tank would probably work best instead of cylinders. I best most supplies wouldn't put their logo on the tank though.
I actually like the overdose of drug/painkillers idea also, but gases are generally cheaper and likely easier.
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For the record:
Evil person dead =/= "botched execution".
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http://www.newson6.com/story/25405844/oklahoma-death-row-inmate-tasered-had-self-inflicted-wounds-day-of-execution#.U2LEc-HCiUw.facebook
This report is saying the scumbag bastard was being difficult at best all day leading up to his demise. Time to grab the other bastard up and do him in now. Want to prevent the *expletive deleted*ck *expletive deleted*ck games, run a central line and it should be real quick and painless.
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Poke a hole in their skulls with a scissors and suck their brains out. It's OK to use for late term abortions, so it must be humane.
do you by chance have a newsletter?
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This report is saying the scumbag bastard was being difficult at best all day leading up to his demise. Time to grab the other bastard up and do him in now. Want to prevent the *expletive deleted* *expletive deleted* games, run a central line and it should be real quick and painless.
I'm reminded of dealing with fire ant mounds; use a 12ga to open a straight hole into the mound, then pour in the chemicals. I think the same could work to gain direct cardiac access for execution.
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Only the government could mess up something humans have been doing very successfully since the dawn of humanity.
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Only the government could mess up something humans have been doing very successfully since the dawn of humanity.
Hmmm...that says something about the lack of humanity in government, does it not?
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To add the humor, President Obama has instructed AG Holder to investigate. [barf] :facepalm:
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To add the humor, President Obama has instructed AG Holder to investigate. [barf] :facepalm:
Well, if history is any indication, that means this issue is dead, and there won't be an investigation
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To add the humor, President Obama has instructed AG Holder to investigate. [barf] :facepalm:
investigate what? The feasibility of sending the condemned to third world diplomatic posts and letting it work itself out?