Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Perd Hapley on May 13, 2014, 08:13:09 PM
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http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/05/daniel-zimmerman/atf-agent-brandishes-gun-shuts-interstate/#more-317245
He was questioned and released after officers learned he was an ATF agent who was carrying proper credentials.
Are they saying that brandishing is OK, if you're a Fed? ;/
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Respect my authoritah.
jim
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Some pigs are more equal than others.
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Some pigs are more equal than others.
I think next time I'm on a jury, I'll ask myself "Do they prosecute government employees - including LEOs - who do the same thing as the accused?"
I'll let the answer guide my actions as a juror.
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I think next time I'm on a jury, I'll ask myself "Do they prosecute government employees - including LEOs - who do the same thing as the accused?"
I'll let the answer guide my actions as a juror.
But then you'd have to let murderous thugs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lon_Horiuchi) walk.
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Some pigs are more equal than others.
I am going with this answer. While there are some defenses to brandishing, I don't see where any of them apply. Sounds like he was being a road ragey a-hole and just assumed (correctly) that he would get away with it.
It seems that most people are ok to some degree with the fact that cops can get away with an occasional minor infraction like speeding, but are people really ok with stuff like this?
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It seems that most people are ok to some degree with the fact that cops can get away with an occasional minor infraction like speeding, but are people really ok with stuff like this?
I'm not one of those people. It's a slippery slope from speeding to this (or worse). I especially hate every law that states: "no one can own or do X, except law enforcment." :mad: :mad: :mad:
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y'all are a bunch of cop haters :P
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Hey, at least he went home safely.
Sawdust
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Could you imagine the hiliarity that would ensue if a CCWer shot and killed a BATFE agent who was brandishing?
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While there are some defenses to brandishing, I don't see where any of them apply. Sounds like he was being a road ragey a-hole and just assumed (correctly) that he would get away with it.
Totally agree. Then again, in my state displaying a firearm is not in and of itself a crime, and it is possible that the same is true in MN. I've been told about local cases where non-cop a-holes displayed a gun whilst road raging and the responding officers had to tell the reporting party that unless the gun was pointed at someone there was no crime and that they couldn't do anything about it.
It seems that most people are ok to some degree with the fact that cops can get away with an occasional minor infraction like speeding, but are people really ok with stuff like this?
Absolutely not. Assuming the story took place as reported, road raging - especially when making an implicit threat with a gun - is absolutely unacceptable behavior, period. Even if it isn't explicitly against the law in MN (and I don't know that for a fact), I would hope the agent's superiors get wind of this and drop the hammer on him.
As to being okay with cops getting away with speeding, I get away with the occasional minor infraction most of the time and I'm no cop. Most of the time I don't even get pulled over for it. I'd wager the same is true for most of us.
When it comes to actual stops, while I don't have statistics in all areas, in our local county fewer than 20% of traffic stops result in a citation with the remainder being written or verbal warnings. With county deputies the number is closer to 10%. What I take from that is that cops aren't the only ones being let off. So, while I hate the culture that says cops should never write cops under any circumstances, in my area they really don't write up most of the non-cops either. If your area treats the police department as an auxiliary revenue collection agency or you break traffic laws harder than most, then I can understand why you might feel differently.
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As to being okay with cops getting away with speeding, I get away with the occasional minor infraction most of the time and I'm no cop. Most of the time I don't even get pulled over for it. I'd wager the same is true for most of us.
And besides, speeding is more or less a fundraiser of a infraction most of the time, and a civil forfeiture may be handed out. Brandishing is a criminal action- completely different ballgame from speeding.
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I did a brief search to see what the brandishing law was in Minnesota and there really isn't one specifically related to brandishing*. It appears that you can be charged with a misdemeanor if you point it at or towards someone (https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=609.66). You could also be charged with 5th degree assault (https://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/statutes/?id=609.224&year=2007), also a misdemeanor.
*There was a law on brandishing a replica firearm or BB gun, but that doesn't apply here.
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I did a brief search to see what the brandishing law was in Minnesota and there really isn't one specifically related to brandishing*. It appears that you can be charged with a misdemeanor if you point it at or towards someone (https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=609.66). You could also be charged with 5th degree assault (https://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/statutes/?id=609.224&year=2007), also a misdemeanor.
*There was a law on brandishing a replica firearm or BB gun, but that doesn't apply here.
So if there was no law against it, how come the cops chased him down in the first place ???
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Could you imagine the hiliarity that would ensue if a CCWer shot and killed a BATFE agent who was brandishing?
that happened with an undercover once i can't remember where
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I'm not one of those people. It's a slippery slope from speeding to this (or worse). I especially hate every law that states: "no one can own or do X, except law enforcment." :mad: :mad: :mad:
Same here, I get a little crabby when a cop car speeds past me and then just pulls into the station for the shift change or something.
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So if there was no law against it, how come the cops chased him down in the first place ???
Dispatch rarely gets the full story up front. They likely got a call about a road rage incident involving firearms and reacted to that.
Also possible some of them reacted to a situation that sounded like it should be again' the law without knowing for a fact that it was. Most cops are not legal scholars. Same reason why I'm not inclined to put a SIG brace on an AR pistol (or Ruger Charger, for that matter, although I really like the 10/22 pocket rifle idea). Not because it is illegal, but because the enforcers of the law tend to be generalists while interpretation of the law requires extensive specialization and I have no desire to be detained while they try to figure out if I broke a law and maybe try for some sort of consolation charge when they find out I'm legal. I had something similar happen during a traffic stop once and one of the cops thought I was violating the law because my 1911 was in condition one.
Still, whatever the legal case, if this is true the *expletive deleted*che needs to be dealt with by his superiors. He has no business carrying either a gun or a badge.
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Dispatch rarely gets the full story up front. They likely got a call about a road rage incident involving firearms and reacted to that.
Also possible some of them reacted to a situation that sounded like it should be again' the law without knowing for a fact that it was. Most cops are not legal scholars. Same reason why I'm not inclined to put a SIG brace on an AR pistol (or Ruger Charger, for that matter, although I really like the 10/22 pocket rifle idea). Not because it is illegal, but because the enforcers of the law tend to be generalists while interpretation of the law requires extensive specialization and I have no desire to be detained while they try to figure out if I broke a law and maybe try for some sort of consolation charge when they find out I'm legal. I had something similar happen during a traffic stop once and one of the cops thought I was violating the law because my 1911 was in condition one.
Still, whatever the legal case, if this is true the *expletive deleted* needs to be dealt with by his superiors. He has no business carrying either a gun or a badge.
You think you or I would have got away with "questioning" ? =| ;/
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A carry permit holder did shoot an off duty LEO in 2007. The off duty cop was swerving through traffic and driving on the shoulder, when someone honked at him the LEO then pulled up on the shoulder (IIRC) when the other driver stopped at a traffic light and pointed a gun at the driver who honked. That person had a carry permit, fired one shot into the officer, causing the shooter's wife in the passenger seat to suffer permanent hearing damage, and was not charged. The police department then spent some months harassing the citizen and his wife, but neither party got into any legal trouble.
This thread has the details. http://twincitiescarry.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5766&start=0
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And that shooter did not see the don't talk to cops video or buy his book
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