Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Scout26 on June 13, 2014, 07:48:55 PM
-
Surprise, surprise, surprise !!! [/Gomer Pyle voice]
Due to a computer glitch, two years of Lois Lerner's e-mails to anyone outside the IRS, are gone due to her computer crashing.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/06/13/take-a-guess-at-the-excuse-the-irs-is-using-not-to-turn-over-lois-lerners-emails/
Do I really look that stupid?
Did no one not think to ask the NSA for copies?
If I had to guess this goes to places where the current administration (and those in the upper levels of the IRS) don't want to go. Perhaps the should subpoena Obama's Blackberry.
-
The talkingheads are already pouncing. Reports are that any e-mail a govt office gets is "mirrored" (duplicated on a different drive) so if the drive gets .... "mysteriously lost" there's a duplicate available.
This story is so much bunk.
Is this administration EVER capable of telling the truth ---- or are they just THAT criminal... [barf] :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
-
Oh bull *expletive deleted*ing horse *expletive deleted*it
-
Surprise, surprise, surprise !!!
Due to a computer glitch, two years of Lois Lerner's e-mails to anyone outside the IRS, due to the computer crashing.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/06/13/take-a-guess-at-the-excuse-the-irs-is-using-not-to-turn-over-lois-lerners-emails/
Do I really look that stupid?
Did no one not think to ask the NSA for copies?
If I had to guess this goes to places where the current administration (and those in the upper levels of the IRS) don't want to go. Perhaps the should subpoena Obama's Blackberry.
So, they don't do email archiving? Riiiight.
Yeah, ask the NSA.
-
The talkingheads are already pouncing. Reports are that any e-mail a govt office gets is "mirrored" (duplicated on a different drive) so if the drive gets .... "mysteriously lost" there's a duplicate available.
I haven't seen the stories. Depends what they mean by "mirrored".
-
Total BS. If the emails to others in the IRS domain are there, then the emails to those outside the IRS domain are there. Either both are there or both are missing. Missing is improbable. It would have to be missing from both the regular mail server, the backup mailserver (both RAIDed), and any local mail that may have been on her assigned machine (local mail is not a standard - it may or may not exist). There would have been a GC hold on all email regarding the scandal as soon as lawyers got involved, so she should also have been required to archive all relevant emails. Also if she has emails missing due to a "computer glitch", then at least dozens of other IRS employees should have missing emails.
-
Total BS.
You could have stopped right there.
-
So what happens to a private citizen or business that "loses" their pertinent emails during and investigation?
-
So what happens to a private citizen or business that "loses" their pertinent emails during and investigation?
"Obstruction of Justice" :police:
-
"Obstruction of Justice" :police:
So, in this case she likely gets some kind of award from the Obama admin.
-
I just read a Fox News article that said it was specifically her machine, so it looks like (if the article is accurate) they are trying to say local mail via an email client. Before we switched to Google govt, all my email was in Tbird, but via IMAP (a requirement). I could locally archive all the mail I wanted and remove it from the IMAP server to clear up space, but my deleted mail was still archived on backup servers somewhere in DC (I don't know for how long or if forever). I can't believe that the IRS wouldn't also require IMAP for email clients.
The "her computer" narrative does give them the option of throwing her under the bus and laying all the blame on her, saying that she maliciously deleted emails. At least that's what the IRS bureaucrats might be thinking, because it appears they didn't contact any of their IT folks for input before they threw the "dog ate my homework" line out there.
-
I just read a Fox News article that said it was specifically her machine, so it looks like (if the article is accurate) they are trying to say local mail via an email client. Before we switched to Google govt, all my email was in Tbird, but via IMAP (a requirement). I could locally archive all the mail I wanted and remove it from the IMAP server to clear up space, but my deleted mail was still archived on backup servers somewhere in DC (I don't know for how long or if forever). I can't believe that the IRS wouldn't also require IMAP for email clients.
The "her computer" narrative does give them the option of throwing her under the bus and laying all the blame on her, saying that she maliciously deleted emails. At least that's what the IRS bureaucrats might be thinking, because it appears they didn't contact any of their IT folks for input before they threw the "dog ate my homework" line out there.
Having worked with the email side of things peripherally (policy, rather than actually touching the mail servers), i can say that each agency has a period of time where ALL incoming and outgoing mail has to be archived outside the mail servers the user touches. There are many ways to skin this cat, including dedicated arrays of appliances whose sole purpose is to hold onto email for a long time.
At DHS, it's 7 years. Every single email. RevDisk could probably tell you how the DoD does it.
A company i may or may not work for has some .gov clients. We keep their emails for 5 years, at their request per their policy. Not irs, though.
-
Yeah, but the Republicans in charge of the investigation (I assume Darrell Issa) don't really want the emails because then they would have to actually do something, so they are probably relieved. They will feign righteous indignation, but that's it. Just like with the Fast and Furious investigation.
-
Having worked with the email side of things peripherally (policy, rather than actually touching the mail servers), i can say that each agency has a period of time where ALL incoming and outgoing mail has to be archived outside the mail servers the user touches. There are many ways to skin this cat, including dedicated arrays of appliances whose sole purpose is to hold onto email for a long time.
At DHS, it's 7 years. Every single email. RevDisk could probably tell you how the DoD does it.
A company i may or may not work for has some .gov clients. We keep their emails for 5 years, at their request per their policy. Not irs, though.
Including those long ~11am email threads discussing where to go to lunch ...? =D
-
Total BS. If the emails to others in the IRS domain are there, then the emails to those outside the IRS domain are there. Either both are there or both are missing. Missing is improbable. It would have to be missing from both the regular mail server, the backup mailserver (both RAIDed), and any local mail that may have been on her assigned machine (local mail is not a standard - it may or may not exist). There would have been a GC hold on all email regarding the scandal as soon as lawyers got involved, so she should also have been required to archive all relevant emails. Also if she has emails missing due to a "computer glitch", then at least dozens of other IRS employees should have missing emails.
Ditto, just need to do a server search and pull those emails down. Now if she was using a gmail/yahoo/Hotmail/whatever then those can be lost forever.
-
Yeah, but the Republicans in charge of the investigation (I assume Darrell Issa) don't really want the emails because then they would have to actually do something, so they are probably relieved. They will feign righteous indignation, but that's it. Just like with the Fast and Furious investigation.
Nonsense - look how fast Eric Holder was prosecuted and brought to trial after being cited for contempt, and how quickly others were criminally charged for obstruction by providing "redacted" documents in response to subpoenas issued by Issa's committee. [/sarcasm]
-
So, they don't do email archiving? Riiiight.
Yeah, ask the NSA.
As you wish...
http://www.bizpacreview.com/2014/06/14/texas-congressman-outfoxes-irs-in-search-for-lost-incriminating-lois-lerner-emails-125382
Brad
-
Anyone on this board can request a Freedom of Information Request and get a copy of Lois Lerner's emails if they want.
-
Anyone on this board can request a Freedom of Information Request and get a copy of Lois Lerner's emails if they want.
Eventually.
The other problem is that you can't just say, "Give me all her emails." The FOIA has to be directed to a specific reason, then, in the ones I was involved in, you do a keyword search (keywords are generated by .gov attorneys with input from technical staff) for those specific emails. Also, there is a lot of leeway built in to allow individuals to decide what emails to submit for the FOIA. It's supposed to be for parsing out irrelevant emails (e.g., keyword "gun" for firearms, but somebody was talking about their "guns" at the gym, so you would strip that one out), but I have certainly seen "irrelevant" stretched to the limit if it helped promote a specific employee's bias either for or against the reason for the FOIA.
-
I can't believe that the IRS wouldn't also require IMAP for email clients.
On the server side, it's easy enough to archive POP accounts too. Either by simply disallowing deletion, or having the POP server itself archive anything it's commanded to delete.
IIRC, the method at one place I worked was to archive everything for a year, then strip out attachments and continue holding the text. The company hadn't been around long enough to run out of space for text emails.
-
This will all go away somethime this week when the next weekly scandal comes out.
-
This will all go away somethime this week when the next weekly scandal comes out.
Trading five terrorist kingpins for an alleged deserter sure seems to have driven the VA scandal off the front pages . . .
-
This will all go away somethime this week when the next weekly scandal comes out.
My bet for the "next big news item" will be military action in Iraq.
-
My bet for the "next big news item" will be military action in Iraq.
There's another problem; wasting money on overseas distractions when we have so many more ranchers, cheesemakers and raw milk producers right here in the US.
-
My bet for the "next big news item" will be military action in Iraq.
I miss the good old days when all it took was bombing some aspirin factory in some 3rd world *expletive deleted* hole.
What Obama et al are doing is political check kiting- eventually someone, somewhere is going to collect on him.
-
. . . What Obama et al are doing is political check kiting- eventually someone, somewhere is going to collect on him.
Best description I've seen for what's going on . . . but I'm afraid it's going to be a cold day in the underworld before we see Obama, Holder, Lerner, et.al. doing a perp walk in orange jumpsuits. =(
-
This latest thing is almost funny if it weren't so horrible....its like they don't even bother vetting their lies before using them.
-
I thought of a situation in which her computer crashing could account for the emails being missing.
SUppose that they were violating several rules related to archival of emails and data integrity
Suppose also that during regularly scheduled audits, they were falsifying the results.
Then suppose also that none of the contractors doing any of this have stepped forward to admit it, because they're all complicit.
So, either the IRS is lying, or many of their IT staff should be in jail
-
So, either the IRS is lying, or many of their IT staff should be in jail
Not a mutually exclusive choice.
-
So, either the IRS is lying, orand many of their IT staff should be in jail
FTFY
-
Hey, so you guys never heard of a computer crashing before? Man, are you all dumb. "Dude! We're the hip, Obama college frat boy team. It's a computer. They crash. Get over it! It was like two years ago."
http://michellemalkin.com/?p=157082
-
. . . and the IRS has "lost" more emails:
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/380576/irs-has-lost-more-e-mails-eliana-johnson
-
Okay, show of hands. Who here is really surprised by the accidental loss of all email history of seven different IRS employees involved in the scandal? Let's see...still waiting, anybody? Hands up, anyone?
-
Okay, show of hands. Who here is really surprised by the accidental loss of all email history of seven different IRS employees involved in the scandal? Let's see...still waiting, anybody? Hands up, anyone?
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.logicalsignals.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F06%2FHear-No-Evil-See-No-Evil-Speak-No-Evil.jpg&hash=8d9d32b49405734f7db705ef99284c84ddec3a3a)
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia-cache-ec0.pinimg.com%2F736x%2Fac%2Fa8%2Fa4%2Faca8a4057942e0d57525e26bdc74757f.jpg&hash=fede2b2c184ee6425dbe05763114858240ad7cd4)
-
From back in March: Congressman Chaffetz grlls the IRS commissioner re: the Subpeona. It asks for ALL of her E-mails from that two year period. Not just the ones dealing with Tea Party applications. But EVERY, SINGLE, LAST, ONE. They have staff (lawyers) that read through looking for key words and phrases or anything that catches their attention as to the matter in question. We used to have a member that did document scanning/searching for law firms suing medical application manufacturers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x74oo-5VJYA
-
I just can't help but wonder when the computer in question crashed if it was onto the cement four stories below.
-
"Obstruction of Justice" :police:
Clinton was impeached for obstruction of justice.
A guy can hope, right?
-
Okay, show of hands. Who here is really surprised by the accidental loss of all email history of seven different IRS employees involved in the scandal? Let's see...still waiting, anybody? Hands up, anyone?
<raises hand> I'm surprised. Only seven?
-
<raises hand> I'm surprised. Only seven?
Yup. I'd expect a preemptive mass wipe of anybody she might have copied an email to so they don't have to keep having mysterious crashes as the subpoena gets expanded.
-
Well anyways... :)
http://stockman.house.gov/media-center/press-releases/stockman-bill-allows-taxpayers-to-use-same-lame-excuses-as-irs
-
Clinton was impeached for obstruction of justice.
A guy can hope, right?
And that impeachment without conviction turned what was supposed to be a constitutional nuclear bomb into a wrist slap.
-
Yup. I'd expect a preemptive mass wipe of anybody she might have copied an email to so they don't have to keep having mysterious crashes as the subpoena gets expanded.
crashes being computer crashes, or their car accelerating suddenly and wrapping itself around a utility pole before burning?
-
Well anyways... :)
http://stockman.house.gov/media-center/press-releases/stockman-bill-allows-taxpayers-to-use-same-lame-excuses-as-irs
Oh pleasepleasplease! What income?
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbBvDiW5gp4
IRS commissioner being questioned by Paul Ryan. Watch this video- it clearly illustrates what kind of smug power drunk bureaucrats Americans are up against.
More: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4zq0TpDLmQ
-
Having worked with the email side of things peripherally (policy, rather than actually touching the mail servers), i can say that each agency has a period of time where ALL incoming and outgoing mail has to be archived outside the mail servers the user touches. There are many ways to skin this cat, including dedicated arrays of appliances whose sole purpose is to hold onto email for a long time.
At DHS, it's 7 years. Every single email. RevDisk could probably tell you how the DoD does it.
A company i may or may not work for has some .gov clients. We keep their emails for 5 years, at their request per their policy. Not irs, though.
Previously, bases and/or services ran their own. Now it's being consolidated into DoD Enterprise Email. Which is an Exchange cluster. DEE is housed at Defense Information Systems Agency, specifically their Defense Enterprise Computing Centers. I worked in one. They're grey concrete cubes that house the DoD data centers. It's scanned by McAfee GroupShield.
Exchange uses something called "journaling". Which is essentially a copy of all mail going in or out. "Users are unable to delete or modify content contained in this mailbox, and messages are retained for a period of up to 10 years." Retention policy is set by whomever contracts for the service from DISA.
Source: http://www.disa.mil/Services/Enterprise-Services/Applications/DoD-Enterprise-Email
I don't think I'm violating national security by saying the data is put on tape for long term storage. We used a lot of them.
-
Thanks. Although I was a dod contractor, I worked indirectly for DHS so didn't deal with the transition
-
It's possible a server hard drive failed, but the overwhelming majority of places back up to tape. Tape very very rarely fails.
Also, when you send an email, there's at least two copies. On the Sent folder of the sender, and the Inbox of the receiver. Multiple receivers, multiple copies. It's very rare for a server RAID to fail. It's more rare at a very large organization for the sender and receiver to be on the same server RAID (not the case at smaller organizations with only one email server). It's very rare that organizations do not back up to long term media.
Only alternative I ever see is if an entity has a very aggressively short retention policy mandating destruction in a short period of time.
-
When this started last year wasn't the scandal du jour that IRS officials were using their personal e-mail to end-run FOIA requirements? Almost like they knew official e-mail was required to be retained?
-
When this started last year wasn't the scandal du jour that IRS officials were using their personal e-mail to end-run FOIA requirements? Almost like they knew official e-mail was required to be retained?
Hush peasant. We don't need your thinking here.
-
Sooo... Now it's apparently the fault of budget cuts that emails can't be recovered:
"It is not unusual for computers anywhere to fail, especially at the IRS in light of the aged equipment IRS employees often have to use in light of the continual cuts in its budget these past four years," Koskinen said. "Since Jan. 1 of this year, for example, over 2,000 employees have suffered hard drive crashes.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/06/23/irs-commissioner-says-agency-is-not-obstructing-congress-in-heated-house/
-
I'm required to do an annual review of our corporate records retention policy. Said policy is based on federal laws. I want the IRS leadership to be held accountable to the same laws I am subject to.
As grandpa used to say; "Want in one hand and crap in the other and see which one fills up first".
-
Sooo... Now it's apparently the fault of budget cuts that emails can't be recovered:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/06/23/irs-commissioner-says-agency-is-not-obstructing-congress-in-heated-house/
We've gone another $6-9 TRILLION into debt during that time and this jackwagon is claiming his agency was too stupid to jump on that gravy train?
In the immortal words of LTG Calvin Waller, "Don't piss on my boots and try to convince me that it's raining."
-
I'm required to do an annual review of our corporate records retention policy. Said policy is based on federal laws. I want the IRS leadership to be held accountable to the same laws I am subject to.
As grandpa used to say; "Want in one hand and crap in the other and see which one fills up first".
I wonder how well it would go over if the IRS audited me and I responded "mmmp, so sorry, hard drive crashed, records gone, innocent until proven guilty."
I don't actually wonder, because I understand that the Justice system is a farce when it comes to the federal government.
-
I'm required to do an annual review of our corporate records retention policy. Said policy is based on federal laws. I want the IRS leadership to be held accountable to the same laws I am subject to.
As grandpa used to say; "Want in one hand and crap in the other and see which one fills up first".
I work at a Uni and we have to maintain a record of emails for seven years I think. Even if they are deleted by the user the email is still there.
-
Issa appears to be a poor questioner. Trey Gowdy, on the other hand, did a great job exposing just how full of crap the IRS commissioner was.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2014/06/24/gowdy_to_irs_commish_how_do_you_know_no_criminal_act_was_done.html
-
Just a quick reminder folks. Issa's committee is where good investigations go to die.
-
Just a quick reminder folks. Issa's committee is where good investigations go to die.
That's pretty much how I see it. Issa is good for scoring himself some political points, not much else.
-
Just a quick reminder folks. Issa's committee is where good investigations go to die.
But . . . but . . . but . . . wasn't it Issa's committee who put Eric Holder away for contempt, as well as various other Obama administration minions for responding to Committee subpoenas with heavily redacted documents, rather than the complete documents themselves?
Don't know whether to :rofl: or :'( when I see Issa talking tough on TV . . .
-
I'm required to do an annual review of our corporate records retention policy. Said policy is based on federal laws. I want the IRS leadership to be held accountable to the same laws I am subject to.
As grandpa used to say; "Want in one hand and crap in the other and see which one fills up first".
Laws are for little people.
-
I'm waiting for them to drop the real bomb, about how Lois Whateverhernameis's personal computer crash is irrelevent to the recovery of email on an enterprise-type email system. So far I have seen only fringe mentions of it. Someone needs to tear the whole thing apart by explaining how server archiving works, and grind into dust this fixation on her personal hard drive.
Brad
-
I'm waiting for them to drop the real bomb, about how Lois Whateverhernameis's personal computer crash is irrelevent to the recovery of email on an enterprise-type email system. So far I have seen only fringe mentions of it. Someone needs to tear the whole thing apart by explaining how server archiving works, and grind into dust this fixation on her personal hard drive.
Brad
If someone were to point that out, it would result in Issa's committee having to do some real work and actually be effective. Not going to happen.
-
I'm waiting for them to drop the real bomb, about how Lois Whateverhernameis's personal computer crash is irrelevent to the recovery of email on an enterprise-type email system. So far I have seen only fringe mentions of it. Someone needs to tear the whole thing apart by explaining how server archiving works, and grind into dust this fixation on her personal hard drive.
Brad
I've actually seen it pointed out several times, in the MSM even, not just blogs, but nobody seems to care. Or nobody seems to understand. Not sure which is worse.
-
I've actually seen it pointed out several times, in the MSM even, not just blogs, but nobody seems to care. Or nobody seems to understand. Not sure which is worse.
Easy there, I don't think you understand clearly. This is real complex. You see, first there is this series of tubes...
-
When EVER I begin to believe, against all experience, that there's a person in Congress that has a clue, my hopes get stomped. Now, damnit, Trey Gowdy is setting me up for another crushing disappointment. His remarks regarding the formation of the Ben Gahzi (who is this Ben fellow, anyway?) in which he took the MSM to the woodshed, gathered my attention. Now this. Mark my words, he'll turn out to be a vegan, or Auburn fan, or something.
-
The Republicans won't do anything to Obama or his people on any of the scandals. They're too afraid of the public unrest they think will follow. Whether it would or not at this point is debatable. This is all a show for Republican true believers.
-
The Republicans won't do anything to Obama or his people on any of the scandals. They're too afraid of the public unrest they think will follow. Whether it would or not at this point is debatable. This is all a show for Republican true believers.
Yes.
Don't forget that the Rs and the Ds play for the the same team as well- team Big Government.