Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: dogmush on June 27, 2014, 01:58:57 PM
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My rental house needs a new roof.
The roofer is pimping metal roofing over shingles for the added lifespan. In FL 15-20 years is the lifespan of a shingle roof, so it's possible I would have to do this again before sale. A metal roof lasts, apparently, "Pretty much forever".
Cost difference is negligible.
I have heard however that metal roofs are louder inside in a rain storm and less aesthetic.
WHat says the brain trust? Anyone ever lived under a metal roof? Is it loud? I was quoted a 5v metal roof, so no fake tiles or anything. If you were looking to rent, would a metal roof be a turn-off?
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When I redid my rentals, I just went with 40 year composite, partly because in the area where they are, I've never even seen metal roofs (though I've seen plenty in my travels in states North of here). This site seems to have a quick and dirty rundown on comparisons:
http://www.qualitysmith.com/request/article/metal-roofing-vs-composite-roofing/
If accurate, I would worry about the issue of finding skilled repairmen. This site does seem to indicate the roofing is louder in the rain. For a rental, I might stick with composite just for keeping tenants and for resale value. My modus operandi with my rentals has always been to not cheap out, nor go expensive. I like decent quality stuff that is "standard" so they are easier to rent and stuff is easier to replace (e.g., white paint inside, earth tone flooring, basic appliances, etc.). If a metal roof could be seen as not popular (I don't know), I would shy away from it on a rental.
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Were I to build a new house, I would install a metal roof. I would prefer standing seam to 5v, but I would not sneeze at 5v. Especially if painted white to reduce attic heat.
Yeah, a little louder.
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Yeah, the "not popular" effect is what has me hesitating.
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Interesting.Asphalt shingles are now "composite roofing".
My roof was replaced in December 2010.At that time a metal roof using big box store materials(Menards & etc.)was 40% more $ than shingles.The roofers I got quotes from told me the same thing,a "real" metal roof was double the cost of shingles(heavier gauge metal and more durable finish).As to the noise?There are insulations that can lessen the noise.
Around here(West Michigan) a raised rib metal roof would be seen as a definite upgrade.
I went with shingles.
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Shingles have gone up in price big time in last 2-3 years. I am considering metal
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That's what I gather (that shingles have gone up).
It's a 7.5% difference to go with metal on this quote. I've asked some questions about the materials they plan on using but I don't have a lot of detail on the metal yet.
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I see metal roofs on the other side of the Cascades a fair amount, usually on the steeply-pitched roofs, and apparently the snow slides right off.
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Whoosh!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgF9102pcOM
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I lived under a metal roof for the first 21 years of my life. Big Victorian with a standing seam roof that had been installed in the 1920s.
It was maybe a bit louder, but nothing that would drive you nuts. With proper attic insulation, you'll probably never notice.
If I were looking to rent, a metal roof would be no detraction.
If I were looking to buy, it would be a significant positive.
If you're looking at metal roofing, go with a company with a track record of installing, repairing, and maintaining metal roofing.
As the article says, thicker is better because it's more resistant to hail damage.
If you live in a snow area, you'll want ice eagles or snow guards. Don't buy into the theory that a metal roof will shed snow as quickly as it falls. On a standard pitch roof it won't, and when it breaks loose it can take out spouting and do significant damage on the way down.
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A metal roof lasts, apparently, "Pretty much forever".
Barring big hail or hurricanes, the worst that can happen is screws working themselves loose or the little rubber grommets on them deteriorating. Either is easily fixed with a screwgun and $40 worth of new screws.
I have heard however that metal roofs are louder inside in a rain storm and less aesthetic.
Over decent decking, it's a pleasant white noise, and really quiet compared to, say, having an undecked metal-roof carport right next to the house.
We build all our sheeted ground mount structures with Central State R-panel, and they hold up great until the 120+ mph sustained winds or tornadoes hit, but then, nothing else except reinforced concrete stands up to those either.
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My grandfather has a metal roof. Increased noise is easily handled with proper insulation under it. That even reduced utility costs, so a bonus there.
Personally I'd consider a metal roof a positive because of it's longer lifespan.
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My grandfather has a metal roof. Increased noise is easily handled with proper insulation under it. That even reduced utility costs, so a bonus there.
Light color compared to comp shingle probably does more for your utility bills during the summer than the insulation.
You can also do the metal on top of the shingles if the decking is in good shape. New underlayment right on the shingles, then battens if the specific profile requires them, then screw the metal down. Your shingles basically become a very thin extra insulation layer.
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Whoosh!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgF9102pcOM
In Soviet Russia, snow clears you off roof.
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Done right, metal is a big plus IMO.
I've lived in some crappy houses where the old metal roof was the only thing not gone to *expletive deleted*it.
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When I lived in TX, people were becoming more open minded about metal roofs due to the heat. Even in the nicer neighborhoods, there was sort of a tipping point where once people weren't going to be the first metal roof in the neighborhood, they would pop up left and right. I have to say the white metal roof on brick ranch house looks a bit odd but with the summer heat and semiannual roof-killing hailstorms, it just makes sense.
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I had a couple of friends who lived in the "Married Housing" Quonset Huts on the Boulder University of Colorado campus. (Before they put up the new buildings.)
Yeah, they were noisy in the rain and hail.
Also hot.
One friend put an oscillating lawn sprinkler up on his roof to cool it off, and it was really weird to hear the water stream "walking" back and forth across the roof. Very distracting.
Terry, 230RN
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if the roof needs furring strips it will make the noise from rain louder than if it is laid directly on the decking with tar paper underneath. also, white is the only color that will seem any cooler in the south. i've always wondered if using a double furring (one set of strips laid vertically on the roof with the second set horizontal) setup would allow more heat to escape if room was left for the air to pass through from top to bottom?
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This roof had (and will continue to have, plywood decking and an underlayment. Then either single or metal. I've emailed to get more details about the metal in question. Thickness, color options, coatings and the like.
The quote is for 5V. I'd probably prefer standing seam for the looks, but I don't know how much more that would cost. The quoted shingles are GAF timberline dimensional. So pretty decent.
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5V roofing looks too barn-like for me.
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5V roofing looks too barn-like for me.
Me too. Been looking at pictures all weekend.
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I'm an aging architect and building inspector, and until this thread I had never heard of 5V roofing. Just looked at the manufacturer's web site. Looks to me like it's a product intended for unoccupied utility and storage buildings, despite their claims that homeowners are now embracing it.
Three thickness available: "Utility" (gauge not specified), 29 gauge (tin foil), and 26 gauge (still awfully thin, and would certainly want to be on solid sheathing).
I'm astonished that the warranty for paint is 15 years longer than the warranty for the galvalume version. That just ain't right. Unless the paint is on top of the galvalume coating.
To get a feel for thickness, go to any Lowe's or Home Depot. In the Hardware/Fasteners department, typically at the back end of the aisle, they have a rack with lengths of steel angle and tubing. Usually they also have small-ish sheets of steel, typically in two gauges.
This site may be helpful: http://www.steelroofing.com/
Also: http://www.metalroofing.com/
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You could always go with metal shingles. I've seen some metal shingled roofs that look so much like slate it's not even funny.
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Hawk, this isn't the same stuff that is in Home Depot. 5V is the designation for that particular crimp pattern. I'm pretty sure that the stuff they are trying to sell me is steel with a baked on paint. But am still waiting on the specifics. It does look like a shed roof however.
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I think he was saying to to Home Depot to check out the thicknesses, 29, 24, etc., gauge.
If you're in a hail prone area, thicker is always better. According to the website, this is installed on a solid substrate, and can be installed over shingles. I personally don't like that approach. I am a firm believer that a complete tear off is ALWAYS the best approach because it allows you to assess the condition of the decking from both sides.
One thing that's not been mentioned about sheet metal roofing -- leaks from ice damming are almost always 100% eliminated. I would suspect that that would not be the case for metal shingles, though.
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5V roofing looks too barn-like for me.
I prefer 5v looks to that of asphalt shingles.
But I also prefer an old-school corrugated metal roof to asphalt shingles.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbmmetalroofing.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F09%2F212CorrSlideShow.jpg&hash=000ecd24af61425bd73de17a7c9bb46407ed2d66)
The 5v looks more domesticated and delicate by comparison.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.atlanticmetalroofing.com%2Fimages%2Fgallery%2F5v%2F7.jpg&hash=00fd2e0bd95621dc8d46b67206d561e26593f7e6)
The raised/standing rib looks even better.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.merchantcircle.com%2F27002084%2FDSCN0018_full.jpeg&hash=26c02c5b04fd0d327d860e20dcd7ec9b6339e926)
Three-tab asphalt is just the basic of the basic in my eyes.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnusashofindianapolis.com%2Fimg%2Fshingles-3-tab-sample.jpg&hash=78f8bdb9828cc8bbc8338bcee2e57ccd68ab53d3)
Arch grade asphalt looks to me like a set of spinner rims with no added functionality over three tab.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcreationworksinc.com%2Fshim_2_architectural_shingles_black.JPG&hash=6a7865583e5e3b528b0be64c97c9cf44ae2ab3b1)
Three-tab vs Arch.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmnroofingandwindows.com%2Fsite%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F06%2Fshingle-types.jpg&hash=0bfcb1a540de6171cdff4dcde3cfe6e119076b95)
Someone mention a shed?
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi01.i.aliimg.com%2Fimg%2Fpb%2F233%2F973%2F426%2F426973233_910.jpg&hash=b7e210492881667736999e03e6e4244852def21e)
You could always go with metal shingles. I've seen some metal shingled roofs that look so much like slate it's not even funny.
Have not seen these close up. I wounder how the installation would differ from asphalt?
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I think I'm going to ask for a quote on standing joint. Also it'll depend on available colors. I'm not feeling galvanized add a color.
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if the roof needs furring strips it will make the noise from rain louder than if it is laid directly on the decking with tar paper underneath. also, white is the only color that will seem any cooler in the south.
Galvalume is much cheaper than white and just as cool. As for noise, granddad's R-panel was installed straight on felt over the existing shingles without any furring strips. The place I'm currently in has metal over tar paper over decking. Both are much quieter than straight metal over purlin, and certainly not too loud to have a normal conversation under even in a heavy rain.
But I also prefer an old-school corrugated metal roof to asphalt shingles.
Biggest problem with C-panel (plain corrugated) is the fastener location; there aren't any flat spots for the washers to set properly against, and the holes are in the bottom of the narrow channels that water will run down. Pretty much every other profile avoids that by having wide flats to aid proper seating of the seal washers and give the water an easy route around the screw.
R-panel is popular (and therefore common and cheap) because it matches C-panel's longitudinal stiffness (5' undecked free spans between purlins for most brands) while eliminating the leakage issues, plus just generally looking a lot better. Since it also works fine over decking, it's by far the most popular metal roof (and wall in many cases) profile around here.
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Hawk, this isn't the same stuff that is in Home Depot. 5V is the designation for that particular crimp pattern. I'm pretty sure that the stuff they are trying to sell me is steel with a baked on paint. But am still waiting on the specifics. It does look like a shed roof however.
I understand that. I suggested Home Depot or Lowe's as a way to get a sense of the metal thickness before buying and crying.
As it happens, I just came back from a trip to Lowe's and, with this thread in mind, I stopped by the miscellaneous metal rack to look at the steel sheets. I would say 26-gauge is probably minimally acceptable, although I doubt very much that it would resist denting from hail. 29-gauge, IMHO, is too thin to even consider, except for a shed or outbuilding.
If I were doing a metal roof, I'd go for one of the fake standing seam roofs with the concealed hold-down clips. The system you're looking at uses exposed screws with rubber washers to seal the holes. The roof panels may last for 25 or 40 years, but you can be sure the rubber gaskets won't.
If you are considering putting the metal directly over the existing shingle roof, be sure you know what's already there. The building code that's used just about everywhere in the country prohibits more than two layers of roofing. If you already have two layers, at least one will have to come off before the new roof can be installed.
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"The system you're looking at uses exposed screws with rubber washers to seal the holes. The roof panels may last for 25 or 40 years, but you can be sure the rubber gaskets won't."
New washer materials (including teflon and neoprene) have amazing durability when installed properly and coated with the proper paints, otherwise the system would have long ago fallen out of favor because of endless leaks. Even the old rubber washer systems could remain leak free for decades as long as they were installed properly, coated with mastic, and then painted.
That said, I'd MUCH rather have a standing seam installation that uses either lapped flanges or clips.
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That said, I'd MUCH rather have a standing seam installation that uses either lapped flanges or clips.
Price difference there can be a huge factor, as well as the installation quality.
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No such thing as a free lunch, is there?
I'd rather pay the extra money and have a seamed roof with concealed fasteners than have the look of a roof full of screw/nail heads and the MUCH higher potential of leakage.
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I'd rather pay the extra money and have a seamed roof with concealed fasteners than have the look of a roof full of screw/nail heads and the MUCH higher potential of leakage.
Problem is, you can still end up paying full price for a crap installation from a roofer that will disappear long before your first problem shows up.
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Problem is, you can still end up paying full price for a crap installation from a roofer that will disappear long before your first problem shows up.
Which is true of anything in life, from cars to groceries to an entire home. Noting is guaranteed 100%
That's why you do your research up front and pick a known roofer with experience putting these things up.